Value of Kyrie Irving

[R-DAWG]

Kyrie is a top 10 player and budding superstar! Cavs also happen to have all the role players they need. Delly, MoWill, SHump, Jr, RJeff, TT, Varejoa and MOsgov. Thats 8 deep in legit role players. All of them fill specific holes in a team with 3 all stars.

Cavs have zero need for more role players. If they are trading Kyrie, they doing it to upgrade and consolidate talent some more not downgrade talent and get more role players.

Kyrie isn't a top 10 player. He might not even be top 5 at his own position right now. I mean Curry, Westbrook and Paul are all better point guards and i'd probably take Wall and Lillard over Kyrie right now.

Hey i guess you entitle to ur opinion but I havent seen any NBA analysts that has had Wall or Lillard over Kyrie. I mean Simmons last yr ranked Kyrie top 10 most valueable player in the league. But again your entitled to you opinion

He has top 10 upside and is very young. But there are major concerns with his health, defense, and weather he's more of a scorer than a play maker. While Blesdose does not have as much upside and is a few years older, the difference today isn't as extreme as your making it out.

I know for sure Bledsoe isnt capable of taking over a game like Kyrie did vs the Spurs and Blazers last year. That sort of top end explosive talent makes a huge diff in PO series esp when you already have a plethora of legit role players around him. Its also crucial given how much he complements Lebrons game. Same cant be said about Bledsoe

Also, IMO Cleveland would benefit from having another 3 and D wing who could play SG and SF. The role players you have are fine but we all know you can't count on JR Smith and Shumpert can't shoot.

Sorry but which of one of Phoenixs current wings are better than Jr or SHump???Tucker, Goodwin, Seems??? Booker has talent but he is years away from contributing to a title contender and hence is of no use to the Cavs! U claim Shump cant shoot but Tucker shoots the 3 ball at pretty much the same clip as Shump while being a worse defender and 5 yrs older. Jr is a solid defender while being significantly better shooter than all of the above

Point is Cavs have SHump and Jr fill in the SG minutes effectively for cavs while also being long enough to fill in at the 3 if needed. Lebron takes the bulk of the SF minutes anyway and Cavs equally have Richard Jefferson. They dont need any more wing role players

I'm a Knicks fan and watched Shumpert and JR play for years. You can't count on those guys. Didn't you watch the finals last year?
Shumpert will never be a consistent shooter because he is too inconsistent with his release point. JR is a headcase. Maybe Pheonix doesn't have the right guy for Cleveland but that doesn't mean that Cleveland wouldn't benefit from an upgrade on the wing. A Jared Dudley, Aaron Afflalo, Trevor Ariza type of player. I'm not saying move Kyrie to get that piece, but Cleveland should be in the market for that kind of piece.

[mademan]

I'm a Knicks fan and watched Shumpert and JR play for years. You can't count on those guys. Didn't you watch the finals last year?
Shumpert will never be a consistent shooter because he is too inconsistent with his release point. JR is a headcase. Maybe Pheonix doesn't have the right guy for Cleveland but that doesn't mean that Cleveland wouldn't benefit from an upgrade on the wing. A Jared Dudley, Aaron Afflalo, Trevor Ariza type of player. I'm not saying move Kyrie to get that piece, but Cleveland should be in the market for that kind of piece.

Put all those guys in the finals, ask them to be second options being guarded by Klay Thompson/Iguodala, and we'll see how they fare. When JR/Iman were asked to be release options being guarded by the worst wing, they did well all year long.

[zubi_anaba]

Hey i guess you entitle to ur opinion but I havent seen any NBA analysts that has had Wall or Lillard over Kyrie. I mean Simmons last yr ranked Kyrie top 10 most valueable player in the league. But again your entitled to you opinion

He has top 10 upside and is very young. But there are major concerns with his health, defense, and weather he's more of a scorer than a play maker. While Blesdose does not have as much upside and is a few years older, the difference today isn't as extreme as your making it out.

I know for sure Bledsoe isnt capable of taking over a game like Kyrie did vs the Spurs and Blazers last year. That sort of top end explosive talent makes a huge diff in PO series esp when you already have a plethora of legit role players around him. Its also crucial given how much he complements Lebrons game. Same cant be said about Bledsoe

Also, IMO Cleveland would benefit from having another 3 and D wing who could play SG and SF. The role players you have are fine but we all know you can't count on JR Smith and Shumpert can't shoot.

Sorry but which of one of Phoenixs current wings are better than Jr or SHump???Tucker, Goodwin, Seems??? Booker has talent but he is years away from contributing to a title contender and hence is of no use to the Cavs! U claim Shump cant shoot but Tucker shoots the 3 ball at pretty much the same clip as Shump while being a worse defender and 5 yrs older. Jr is a solid defender while being significantly better shooter than all of the above

Point is Cavs have SHump and Jr fill in the SG minutes effectively for cavs while also being long enough to fill in at the 3 if needed. Lebron takes the bulk of the SF minutes anyway and Cavs equally have Richard Jefferson. They dont need any more wing role players

I'm a Knicks fan and watched Shumpert and JR play for years. You can't count on those guys. Didn't you watch the finals last year?
Shumpert will never be a consistent shooter because he is too inconsistent with his release point. JR is a headcase. Maybe Pheonix doesn't have the right guy for Cleveland but that doesn't mean that Cleveland wouldn't benefit from an upgrade on the wing. A Jared Dudley, Aaron Afflalo, Trevor Ariza type of player. I'm not saying move Kyrie to get that piece, but Cleveland should be in the market for that kind of piece.

Dudley, Afflalo and Ariza are all old and unattainable by Cavs so the point is moot.

Jr and Shump were actually fantastic last PO. Finals was diff because they were forced to be second options with Kyrie and Klove out. Thats highly unlikely to happen again. And as said before, there is no evidence whatsoever that Dudley, Afflalo and Ariza would have performed better under such conditions. Afterall Ariza under-performed in the WCF

[Patsfan1081]

I could see Bledsoe/Conley as a better fit in Cleveland. I agree with Irving being more of a scorer, we haven't seen Lebron play with more of a physilitator yet in his career.

[mjj0062]

Well is posts like these and the comments to go along with them that confirms my thesis that Kyrie Irving is the most underrated player in the NBA, at least on these boards. Conley/Bledsoe ect are guys Irving turned to BBQ chicken last season when healthy. And to act like Curry is such a superior defensive player is laughable. If this post isnt trolling then I dont know what is

[mjj0062]

there is no relevance here. Nothing about that OP remotely suggests he is trolling Cavs fans.

From the OP:

"Irving is basically an offense only player. He is still very young and locked for another five years. He could explode anytime and give us random 30 or 40 points game. Yet he is injury prone, does not assist that often for a point guard standard and a mess defensively. Looking at those facts, what is the market value of Irving?"

Perhaps "us" is a typo. But I also wondered whether the ball boy forgot that his avatar had a GS insignia under it.

I don't think he meant anything by the "us"--just worded it poorly. And while I wouldn't describe Kyrie in those exact terms, some of his criticisms of him are not inaccurate.

No this post is the definition of trolling. The cavs aren't going to break up a team that went 33-3 including 3-0 in the playoffs until Love got hurt. You don't go along trading a top 5 pg in the nba for nothing just for the fun of it

[Texas Chuck]

Well is posts like these and the comments to go along with them that confirms my thesis that Kyrie Irving is the most underrated player in the NBA, at least on these boards. Conley/Bledsoe ect are guys Irving turned to BBQ chicken last season when healthy. And to act like Curry is such a superior defensive player is laughable. If this post isnt trolling then I dont know what is

Let's leave it you appear to have no ability to be objective, shall we? And yes Curry is a superior defender by all measures. But if you want to make more troll accusations itt you can have a break, okay? You need to leave the moderating to the moderators.

[LarsV8]

And yes Curry is a superior defender by all measures.

That is plainly false.

[Texas Chuck]

And yes Curry is a superior defender by all measures.

That is plainly false.

Well, no it isn't.

[LarsV8]

And yes Curry is a superior defender by all measures.

That is plainly false.

Well, no it isn't.

You are right, I misread.

[Illmatic12]

If you can get Bledsoe, Goodwin and a first round pick? Yeah I'd do that.


Don't forget the Bledsoe-Rich Paul/Lebron connection.

Yeah, that's not a bad trade for CLE by any stretch.

I don't even see why the Suns would do that, they're rebuilding and should hold onto their picks. Only advantage for Phoenix would be from a marketing standpoint, to get a 'flashier' more recognizable star.

[mjj0062]

Well is posts like these and the comments to go along with them that confirms my thesis that Kyrie Irving is the most underrated player in the NBA, at least on these boards. Conley/Bledsoe ect are guys Irving turned to BBQ chicken last season when healthy. And to act like Curry is such a superior defensive player is laughable. If this post isnt trolling then I dont know what is

Let's leave it you appear to have no ability to be objective, shall we? And yes Curry is a superior defender by all measures. But if you want to make more troll accusations itt you can have a break, okay? You need to leave the moderating to the moderators.

What measures is he superior in though? If your talking about stats like Drtg then yeah he might be a little bit better. When I watch him go up against other star pg all I ever see is Golden State making an effort to hide him. Ive watched nearly every Cavs game the past 2 years and this notion that Irving gives up a layup every play is bs, its really Kevin Love where that scenario is true. When Irving is engaged as a defender he is above average when playing on ball D. I know this because I watch every Cavs game. Game 1 of the NBA finals he had a number of stops on Curry, blocked him at the end of the game and straight up ripped him a few times. I'm sorry there just isn't much separation between the 2 on that side of the ball.

[DowJones]

LOL. Anybody notice the guy that started this thread is a warriors fan?

there is no relevance here. Nothing about that OP remotely suggests he is trolling Cavs fans.

Not a troll at all, I agree. With that being said many GS fans absolutely think Kyrie and Kevin Love make Cleveland a worse team.

[Smitty731]

Well is posts like these and the comments to go along with them that confirms my thesis that Kyrie Irving is the most underrated player in the NBA, at least on these boards. Conley/Bledsoe ect are guys Irving turned to BBQ chicken last season when healthy. And to act like Curry is such a superior defensive player is laughable. If this post isnt trolling then I dont know what is

Let's leave it you appear to have no ability to be objective, shall we? And yes Curry is a superior defender by all measures. But if you want to make more troll accusations itt you can have a break, okay? You need to leave the moderating to the moderators.

What measures is he superior in though? If your talking about stats like Drtg then yeah he might be a little bit better. When I watch him go up against other star pg all I ever see is Golden State making an effort to hide him. Ive watched nearly every Cavs game the past 2 years and this notion that Irving gives up a layup every play is bs, its really Kevin Love where that scenario is true. When Irving is engaged as a defender he is above average when playing on ball D. I know this because I watch every Cavs game. Game 1 of the NBA finals he had a number of stops on Curry, blocked him at the end of the game and straight up ripped him a few times. I'm sorry there just isn't much separation between the 2 on that side of the ball.

Do you watch every game or nearly every game? At least be consistent. And to be fair, you are watching the Cavs with the lens of a Cavs fan. Chuck is watching as an unbiased observer. If anything, he's likely to be more harsh on Curry, since they are a direct conference rival to his team.

Curry is a much improved defender over the last three seasons. And the Warriors don't hide him like they used to. He usually guards his own position now.

Irving takes some flack for not being a great defender, but he's not a sieve either. He's just an average guy, who can be good when he wants/needs to be. In a lot of ways he's similar to James Harden when it comes to defense. He can be good when gives a good effort. Most nights, he isn't asked to do that or needed to do that. Harden is basically the same way.

[HartfordWhalers]

Is it too late to offer a low ball offer for Irving?

I have a perfectly good Nik Stauskas and a bunch of mid to late firsts that honestly, I was just planning on trading for more distant firsts.

[Revived]

Irving for Bledsoe, Goodwin and a 1st round pick (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zvhgqqv)

Maybe if the pick the Suns are trading is the Cavs pick itself back to them.

I'm not a big Irving fan. Super talented but injury prone as hell. I don't think he will ever fulfill his potential as a player because of injuries.

[TheOUTLAW]

What is it with Golden State fans?

[Edumacated]

Out of 353 games Irving could have played in, he has missed 96 games (27%). His health concerns would be the only reason you trade him away because he is one of the best offensive guards in the game. And if you do trade him away, you need a PG (under 30) who is a good shooter and defender in return at the very least to entice the Cavs.

[KingKyrie1]

Out of 353 games Irving could have played in, he has missed 96 games (27%). His health concerns would be the only reason you trade him away because he is one of the best offensive guards in the game. And if you do trade him away, you need a PG (under 30) who is a good shooter and defender in return at the very least to entice the Cavs.

He missed alot of games because Cavs wanted to tank aswell. not all of his missed games is a result of a real injury.

[R-DAWG]

Hey i guess you entitle to ur opinion but I havent seen any NBA analysts that has had Wall or Lillard over Kyrie. I mean Simmons last yr ranked Kyrie top 10 most valueable player in the league. But again your entitled to you opinion



I know for sure Bledsoe isnt capable of taking over a game like Kyrie did vs the Spurs and Blazers last year. That sort of top end explosive talent makes a huge diff in PO series esp when you already have a plethora of legit role players around him. Its also crucial given how much he complements Lebrons game. Same cant be said about Bledsoe



Sorry but which of one of Phoenixs current wings are better than Jr or SHump???Tucker, Goodwin, Seems??? Booker has talent but he is years away from contributing to a title contender and hence is of no use to the Cavs! U claim Shump cant shoot but Tucker shoots the 3 ball at pretty much the same clip as Shump while being a worse defender and 5 yrs older. Jr is a solid defender while being significantly better shooter than all of the above

Point is Cavs have SHump and Jr fill in the SG minutes effectively for cavs while also being long enough to fill in at the 3 if needed. Lebron takes the bulk of the SF minutes anyway and Cavs equally have Richard Jefferson. They dont need any more wing role players

I'm a Knicks fan and watched Shumpert and JR play for years. You can't count on those guys. Didn't you watch the finals last year?
Shumpert will never be a consistent shooter because he is too inconsistent with his release point. JR is a headcase. Maybe Pheonix doesn't have the right guy for Cleveland but that doesn't mean that Cleveland wouldn't benefit from an upgrade on the wing. A Jared Dudley, Aaron Afflalo, Trevor Ariza type of player. I'm not saying move Kyrie to get that piece, but Cleveland should be in the market for that kind of piece.

Dudley, Afflalo and Ariza are all old and unattainable by Cavs so the point is moot.

Jr and Shump were actually fantastic last PO. Finals was diff because they were forced to be second options with Kyrie and Klove out. Thats highly unlikely to happen again. And as said before, there is no evidence whatsoever that Dudley, Afflalo and Ariza would have performed better under such conditions. Afterall Ariza under-performed in the WCF

Championship teams have vetern role players. I'm a Knick fan and it's amazing to see how much better Afflalo is than JR and Shump.

If JR has proven anything over the course of his career it's that you can't trust him and he always comes up small in the big moment. From completly zoning out during the coach's halftime speach to showing up hung over to playoff games when he's was with the Knicks. As a 6th man/heat check guy I guess he's ok.

Shumpert's can consistently release the ball from the same point which is why his jumper is so inconsistent. He's a great defensive player but that jump shot makes him a limited player.

They are fine band-aid type pieces, but if I was the Cavs GM and could add 1 piece I want a true 3 and D wing that can play the 2 and 3. Exactly what Shane Battier was for Lebron in Miami.