Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[Stratmaster]

He is shooting 41.3% from 16+ - <3point. the 26% he shoots from 3 isn't better efficiency that that.

Right, well to beat the 41% longer mid-range, he'd still only need 28% from three to produce more points.

Not saying never shoot the mid-range, but I think its rather bottom barrel looks its producing for the team. Maybe Thibs used it more sparingly for a good reason.

And he will not shoot 28% from 3 if he increases his volume. He is a lifetime 27% while attempting 0.2 3 point attempts per game...so...one every five games. Have him start actually looking to take 3's and watch what happens.

[Rerisen]

He is shooting 41.3% from 16+ - <3point. the 26% he shoots from 3 isn't better efficiency that that.

Right, well to beat the 41% longer mid-range, he'd still only need 28% from three to produce more points.

Not saying never shoot the mid-range, but I think its rather bottom barrel looks its producing for the team. Maybe Thibs used it more sparingly for a good reason.

And he will not shoot 28% from 3 if he increases his volume. He is a lifetime 27% while attempting 0.2 3 point attempts per game...so...one every five games. Have him start actually looking to take 3's and watch what happens.

I don't see it that way, I think he has improved his range over the years, and he actually killed it in Spain in the Eurobasket.

Last year he shot 46%. This year he has started bad, on a small sample, but really not getting a lot of looks there to develop a rhythm. Probably couldn't be worse than Niko which is depressing. While bringing more in other areas.

[jcuuofd]

Butler is wrong. The team needs roster changes. Snell and McDermott are inconsistent and being hard on them is not going to solve their problems. Noah is broken down and cannot be pushed harder. Mirotic is soft and cannot rebound or defend. I like Brooks, but the Bulls need a two way player as a back up point guard.

[Stratmaster]

Right, well to beat the 41% longer mid-range, he'd still only need 28% from three to produce more points.

Not saying never shoot the mid-range, but I think its rather bottom barrel looks its producing for the team. Maybe Thibs used it more sparingly for a good reason.

And he will not shoot 28% from 3 if he increases his volume. He is a lifetime 27% while attempting 0.2 3 point attempts per game...so...one every five games. Have him start actually looking to take 3's and watch what happens.

I don't see it that way, I think he has improved his range over the years, and he actually killed it in Spain in the Eurobasket.

Last year he shot 46%. This year he has started bad, on a small sample, but really not getting a lot of looks there to develop a rhythm. Probably couldn't be worse than Niko which is depressing. While bringing more in other areas.

You're kidding, right? I mean, you are factually correct but you think that was a trend? He is right back where he has always been this season except he has increased to a whopping 0.6 attempts per game. You're going to ignore a 15 year trend that he has reverted back to this season for last seasons percentage in a season where he took a total of 26 3-point attempts?

[coldfish]

Right now, the Bulls have played 15 home games (11-4) and 10 road games (4-6). That obviously changes going forward. They have a point differential of +1.0 (10th in conference) and are 0.5 games out of the 9th spot. The metrics right now point to Chicago MISSING THE PLAYOFFS! The status quo is not good and someone has to do something about it.

I agree that the status quo is problematic but I think you're overselling it a bit. I don't think there are good metrics out there that point to the Bulls missing the playoffs. SRS has the team 7th in the East and that looks strictly at teams' performance this season, which can be misleading, especially this early in the season, when there are possible flukes such as Charlotte profiling as the 7th best team in the entire league. The most insightful metrics consider preseason expectations. One that does that, ESPN's BPI, has the Bulls 10th in the NBA and 6th in the East.

Fun stat, the Bulls are +42 in their 2 games against Philly. They are -17 in the other 23 games they have played. I was mostly going by point differential, which the Bulls are out of the playoffs in. But you are correct, such metrics are unstable this early on.

[Rerisen]

You're kidding, right? I mean, you are factually correct but you think that was a trend? He is right back where he has always been this season except he has increased to a whopping 0.6 attempts per game. You're going to ignore a 15 year trend that he has reverted back to this season for last seasons percentage in a season where he took a total of 26 3-point attempts?

This is supposed to be the great experimenter coach we have. Try it for a month, if he can't do it, not that big of loss.

Continuing what we are doing with Gasol is not a good plan. Efficiency is important no matter how much you might pooh pooh it. It's a big part of why our offense is 27th.

[Stratmaster]

Right now, the Bulls have played 15 home games (11-4) and 10 road games (4-6). That obviously changes going forward. They have a point differential of +1.0 (10th in conference) and are 0.5 games out of the 9th spot. The metrics right now point to Chicago MISSING THE PLAYOFFS! The status quo is not good and someone has to do something about it.

I agree that the status quo is problematic but I think you're overselling it a bit. I don't think there are good metrics out there that point to the Bulls missing the playoffs. SRS has the team 7th in the East and that looks strictly at teams' performance this season, which can be misleading, especially this early in the season, when there are possible flukes such as Charlotte profiling as the 7th best team in the entire league. The most insightful metrics consider preseason expectations. One that does that, ESPN's BPI, has the Bulls 10th in the NBA and 6th in the East.

Fun stat, the Bulls are +42 in their 2 games against Philly. They are -17 in the other 23 games they have played. I was mostly going by point differential, which the Bulls are out of the playoffs in. But you are correct, such metrics are unstable this early on.

Fun stat. The Bulls are -31 in 2 losses against Charlotte. They are +56 in their other 23 games.

[Stratmaster]

You're kidding, right? I mean, you are factually correct but you think that was a trend? He is right back where he has always been this season except he has increased to a whopping 0.6 attempts per game. You're going to ignore a 15 year trend that he has reverted back to this season for last seasons percentage in a season where he took a total of 26 3-point attempts?

This is supposed to be the great experimenter coach we have. Try it for a month, if he can't do it, not that big of loss.

Continuing what we are doing with Gasol is not a good plan. Efficiency is important no matter how much you might pooh pooh it. It's a big part of why our offense is 27th.

The Bulls have 8 players shooting 33.7% or better from 3, including 5 players shooting 38.7% or better. Why in the world would we try to push Gasol to take more 3's?

[coldfish]

I agree that the status quo is problematic but I think you're overselling it a bit. I don't think there are good metrics out there that point to the Bulls missing the playoffs. SRS has the team 7th in the East and that looks strictly at teams' performance this season, which can be misleading, especially this early in the season, when there are possible flukes such as Charlotte profiling as the 7th best team in the entire league. The most insightful metrics consider preseason expectations. One that does that, ESPN's BPI, has the Bulls 10th in the NBA and 6th in the East.

Fun stat, the Bulls are +42 in their 2 games against Philly. They are -17 in the other 23 games they have played. I was mostly going by point differential, which the Bulls are out of the playoffs in. But you are correct, such metrics are unstable this early on.

Fun stat. The Bulls are -31 in 2 losses against Charlotte. They are +56 in their other 23 games.

You realize that isn't particularly good, right?

But I'm curious, where do you think the Bulls will end up this season?

[Rerisen]

You're kidding, right? I mean, you are factually correct but you think that was a trend? He is right back where he has always been this season except he has increased to a whopping 0.6 attempts per game. You're going to ignore a 15 year trend that he has reverted back to this season for last seasons percentage in a season where he took a total of 26 3-point attempts?

This is supposed to be the great experimenter coach we have. Try it for a month, if he can't do it, not that big of loss.

Continuing what we are doing with Gasol is not a good plan. Efficiency is important no matter how much you might pooh pooh it. It's a big part of why our offense is 27th.

The Bulls have 8 players shooting 33.7% or better from 3, including 5 players shooting 38.7% or better. Why in the world would we try to push Gasol to take more 3's?

Pace and space mang. Hoiball. Get Pau from holding the ball so long, which he tends to do inside the arc.

Look at Bosh's career arc, he wasn't a great shooter either from 3 for most of his career, but worked himself into a good one. Now he takes like 4 a game at 38%.

[Stratmaster]

Fun stat, the Bulls are +42 in their 2 games against Philly. They are -17 in the other 23 games they have played. I was mostly going by point differential, which the Bulls are out of the playoffs in. But you are correct, such metrics are unstable this early on.

Fun stat. The Bulls are -31 in 2 losses against Charlotte. They are +56 in their other 23 games.

You realize that isn't particularly good, right?

But I'm curious, where do you think the Bulls will end up this season?

I believe the Bulls will end up 2nd in the East. I base this on them being right at that point most of the season so far, and then factor in that :
Rose has been playing blind.
Niko has been worse than what I expect he will be (although he is in my mind a bench player, and not the all-star some thought).
Noah wasn't playing well the first several games.
The lineup and rotations are improving.
McD should become more consistent with more playing time.
Either MDJ will return or the Bulls will make a move to address the 3 if that doesn't look likely.
Portis will become an asset by the end of the season. Not at the level some think, but an asset.
Hoiberg has made many mistakes and will make fewer as he gains experience.

What will happen in the playoffs depends on at what level those things above happen. I don't see any way to accurately assess that at this point in the season.

[Rerisen]

I agree that the status quo is problematic but I think you're overselling it a bit. I don't think there are good metrics out there that point to the Bulls missing the playoffs. SRS has the team 7th in the East and that looks strictly at teams' performance this season, which can be misleading, especially this early in the season, when there are possible flukes such as Charlotte profiling as the 7th best team in the entire league. The most insightful metrics consider preseason expectations. One that does that, ESPN's BPI, has the Bulls 10th in the NBA and 6th in the East.

Fun stat, the Bulls are +42 in their 2 games against Philly. They are -17 in the other 23 games they have played. I was mostly going by point differential, which the Bulls are out of the playoffs in. But you are correct, such metrics are unstable this early on.

Fun stat. The Bulls are -31 in 2 losses against Charlotte. They are +56 in their other 23 games.

Charlotte is a pretty good team I'm sure you've noticed.

But what the heck, take out all 4 of those as 'outliers' if you wish, and we end up with +11 in 21 games? Very mediocre almost .500.

[DarthDiggler69]

I hope they compromised to less ISO plays and more movement and pace. Nobody is going to win unless Fred gets to run his offense and Jimmy gets some iso plays and Fred cracking the whip. But imo they should all forget their ego and making the allstar team and instead try to play as a team on offense

[Rerisen]

Either MDJ will return or the Bulls will make a move to address the 3 if that doesn't look likely.

"Address" doesn't mean call up some bum either.

[Stratmaster]

This is supposed to be the great experimenter coach we have. Try it for a month, if he can't do it, not that big of loss.

Continuing what we are doing with Gasol is not a good plan. Efficiency is important no matter how much you might pooh pooh it. It's a big part of why our offense is 27th.

The Bulls have 8 players shooting 33.7% or better from 3, including 5 players shooting 38.7% or better. Why in the world would we try to push Gasol to take more 3's?

Pace and space mang. Hoiball. Get Pau from holding the ball so long, which he tends to do inside the arc.

Look at Bosh's career arc, he wasn't a great shooter either from 3 for most of his career, but worked himself into a good one. Now he takes like 4 a game at 38%.

Bosh was always a better shooter than Pau from 3 but you are right, he improved dramatically after several seasons in the league. Maybe that can be Pau. But Pau is about 6 years older than Bosh was when he started shooting them more and better. Hey, I can live with Pau talking a few more to see how he does. I am pessimistic about the outcome though as compared to your optimism...and the Bulls have a lot of 3 point shooters now. I'd rather see McD get 2 more per game than Pau start taking 2 a game.

[Stratmaster]

Either MDJ will return or the Bulls will make a move to address the 3 if that doesn't look likely.

"Address" doesn't mean call up some bum either.

Agreed.

[Stratmaster]

Fun stat, the Bulls are +42 in their 2 games against Philly. They are -17 in the other 23 games they have played. I was mostly going by point differential, which the Bulls are out of the playoffs in. But you are correct, such metrics are unstable this early on.

Fun stat. The Bulls are -31 in 2 losses against Charlotte. They are +56 in their other 23 games.

Charlotte is a pretty good team I'm sure you've noticed.

But what the heck, take out all 4 of those as 'outliers' if you wish, and we end up with +11 in 21 games? Very mediocre almost .500.

If we are talking outliers the Bulls 2 worst losses were -48. their 2 biggest wins were +42. Making the Bulls +31 in their other 21 games.

[Rerisen]

If we are talking outliers the Bulls 2 worst losses were -48. their 2 biggest wins were +42. Making the Bulls +31 in their other 21 games.

Would come out to +1.4 per game, not much different than our actual +1.0.

[dice]

Mirotic is soft and cannot rebound or defend

the numbers suggest otherwise

[RedBulls23]

Fair enough. Jimmy can find a better way to address this. But isn't what he is saying and what it ultimately means more important than focusing on the inappropriate forum he chose to express what is going on?

The way you go about handling your business matters. Right now Jimmy isn't being part of the solution, he's being part of the problem and creating a bigger one.

We shall see.

I'm one of those dreaded title or bust characters, and was under no illusion this team had the right stuff anyway, so I'll be eating the popcorn and hoping things get fixed.

I mean I didn't expect a title this year. Not with the continous question mark of Derrick Rose play and in general the overall roster construction. Not to mention we needed two of Niko, Snell and McD to improve this year and only 1 of them has.

It just that I don't see how Jimmy is going about this as being something constructive. He wants to be a leader, but this isn't leadership. Real leaders inspire you (pre-injury Noah for example). I'm hoping Noah has finally rounded into shape, so he can get hold of that locker room going forward.