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Jdiddy701 wrote:Bledsoe 3 TO's to end the game.. Not putting the loss on him. Bledsoe doesn't have help.
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RunDogGun wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:RunDogGun wrote:Meh, that's just your opinion. Tucker rebounds, defends, and boxes out. GMAT went through a whole thing about this stuff. Tucker is a role player, and he only has trouble when he tries do stuff outside his skill set. Warren and Booker are getting their minutes. I really don't see why people are bitching so much.
If Tucker didn't rebound, defend, and box out, he wouldn't even be in the league. That's why people are upset. He is an entirely one way, 30+ year old seeing a ton of minutes on a rebuilding team despite only having 1 year left on his deal, and he's in the game during situations in which he has no business being in the game, like on a possession where you must score a bucket or your team loses. Why is that? I'm sure Tucker is a coach's favorite due to his hustle and whatnot. And maybe that's the coach's fault (I think it is), but it is still frustrating as hell to watch a guy who cannot help you win on the offensive end of the court in games when you must score buckets when in many people's views he shouldn't be on the roster. Tucker is not an awful player, but he has infinitely more value to a true veteran contender than this team.
He also doesn't endear himself to fans when he goes driving with a 23% BAC, resulting in a type of DUI most have never heard of before, the year he signs an extension. It also ruins any view of him as a locker room leader. Same thing happened with Markieff when he went out and punched some people.
GMAT already went through this with you the other night. I see no need to go through it again with you. I don't need your opinions, I would rather go off the data GMAT provided for you, but you dismissed and chose not to read.have a good night AJ.
RunDogGun wrote:batsmasher wrote:letsgosuns wrote:I think Tucker is awful but he is not the main problem with the team. However, anyone defending him needs to face facts. There is a scoring machine named Warren that Tucker is holding back the development of which is asinine.
This is Tucker's fourth year on the Suns. This is also his worst year statistically. He is averaging 6 pts, 5 rbs, and 1 ast on 40% fg, 28% 3 pts, and 71% ft shooting in 27 minutes. Does anyone think his stats are worthy of being a starting small forward who plays 27 minutes a game? I do not.
Warren should be starting and playing 30-35 minutes EVERY GAME and Tucker can have what is left over. Warren only averages 22 minutes a game. That is ridiculous.
If you're basing your judgement of PJ's performance off his numbers, you're doing it wrong.
With that being said, he has definitely declined offensively.
He doesn't take many shots. It's hard to make a dent on offense if people only look at the stats, if you don't shoot that much.
AtheJ415 wrote:RunDogGun wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:
If Tucker didn't rebound, defend, and box out, he wouldn't even be in the league. That's why people are upset. He is an entirely one way, 30+ year old seeing a ton of minutes on a rebuilding team despite only having 1 year left on his deal, and he's in the game during situations in which he has no business being in the game, like on a possession where you must score a bucket or your team loses. Why is that? I'm sure Tucker is a coach's favorite due to his hustle and whatnot. And maybe that's the coach's fault (I think it is), but it is still frustrating as hell to watch a guy who cannot help you win on the offensive end of the court in games when you must score buckets when in many people's views he shouldn't be on the roster. Tucker is not an awful player, but he has infinitely more value to a true veteran contender than this team.
He also doesn't endear himself to fans when he goes driving with a 23% BAC, resulting in a type of DUI most have never heard of before, the year he signs an extension. It also ruins any view of him as a locker room leader. Same thing happened with Markieff when he went out and punched some people.
GMAT already went through this with you the other night. I see no need to go through it again with you. I don't need your opinions, I would rather go off the data GMAT provided for you, but you dismissed and chose not to read.
Yeah. I'm not going to get into a debate over strawman arguments with a guy who made 2 lengthy posts regarding just that. He's an awful offensive player. He averages 6 points, 1.2 assists, on 40% from the field, 28% from 3, and 71% from FT. That is awful. As in, he must be really good at everything else or else he wouldn't be in the league awful. Anything, data or not, that suggests otherwise is nonsense. He's a good defensive player and rebounder. That's why he's in the league. I've never said otherwise. I've never said he isn't an elite defender, never said he isn't an elite rebounder, and see no reason to debate otherwise. But tell me a 30 year old with these traits is useful long-term to a team that's core is 19-26 year olds, and I'll tell you you are simply wrong. By the time we are ready to really win, he will be absolutely useless to us, and since that is the priority for a rebuilding team, he is nearly useless to us now. Tucker is the guy a team ready to compete needs to do the little things, and we are not that team, and probably won't be that team for another 3-5 years.
Straw man? 
RunDogGun wrote:He doesn't take many shots. It's hard to make a dent on offense if people only look at the stats, if you don't shoot that much.
letsgosuns wrote:I still think this season can be saved. I do not like Knight or Bledsoe but I would take Bledsoe every day of the week over Knight. Anyway, trade Knight and Markieff for expiring contracts and picks. Get rid of Tucker too if you can. Start Bledsoe, Booker, Warren, Leuer (or another power forward acquired in a trade), and Len/Chandler. Play Price, Goodwin, Weems, Teletovic, and whoever else you get in a trade off the bench. That team has far more potential than this current disaster of a starting lineup/roster.
letsgosuns wrote:RunDogGun wrote:batsmasher wrote:If you're basing your judgement of PJ's performance off his numbers, you're doing it wrong.
With that being said, he has definitely declined offensively.
He doesn't take many shots. It's hard to make a dent on offense if people only look at the stats, if you don't shoot that much.
He passes up so many shots though because he is hesitant to shoot. He did it tonight when he was wide open at the three point line, did not want to shoot, and then traveled. I would rather him shoot and miss than turn it over like that.
bwgood77 wrote:Jdiddy701 wrote:Bledsoe 3 TO's to end the game.. Not putting the loss on him. Bledsoe doesn't have help.
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What does not having help have to do with his turnovers? Knight and Bledsoe's turnovers at the end of games is inexcusable.
batsmasher wrote:RunDogGun wrote:He doesn't take many shots. It's hard to make a dent on offense if people only look at the stats, if you don't shoot that much.
He's had his fair share of "here comes Austin Rivers" moments this season though, and they REALLY hurt us on offense. The only player who had been worse offensively with any minutes had been Kieff. Doesn't help when his corner 3 has gone from ~40% to 29% either.
kennydorglas wrote:Apparently Hornacek is losing his mind in the post-game interview.
RunDogGun wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:RunDogGun wrote:GMAT already went through this with you the other night. I see no need to go through it again with you. I don't need your opinions, I would rather go off the data GMAT provided for you, but you dismissed and chose not to read.
Yeah. I'm not going to get into a debate over strawman arguments with a guy who made 2 lengthy posts regarding just that. He's an awful offensive player. He averages 6 points, 1.2 assists, on 40% from the field, 28% from 3, and 71% from FT. That is awful. As in, he must be really good at everything else or else he wouldn't be in the league awful. Anything, data or not, that suggests otherwise is nonsense. He's a good defensive player and rebounder. That's why he's in the league. I've never said otherwise. I've never said he isn't an elite defender, never said he isn't an elite rebounder, and see no reason to debate otherwise. But tell me a 30 year old with these traits is useful long-term to a team that's core is 19-26 year olds, and I'll tell you you are simply wrong. By the time we are ready to really win, he will be absolutely useless to us, and since that is the priority for a rebuilding team, he is nearly useless to us now. Tucker is the guy a team ready to compete needs to do the little things, and we are not that team, and probably won't be that team for another 3-5 years.
Cool story.
kennydorglas wrote:Apparently Hornacek is losing his mind in the post-game interview.
AtheJ415 wrote:Hornacek needs to go. Rotations are absolute nonsense. Playcalling in crunch time sucks.
Also, for those who will inevitably blame our guards for this, there was a lot of ball movement in the last 6 minutes that resulted in nothing. 4-5 passes, that end up with a guy who doesn't want to shoot or else are easy to defend since our physical players are stationary despite the ball moving. There were even plays where MIL switched and we had mismatches, you could hear Knight tell Leuer to get in the post, but because it took so long to develop our guards had to just create a shot because there was 6-8 seconds on the clock at that point. This just happens way too often. Our first, second, and third options get shut down a ton in the base offense, and then our guards have to force a shot with no time left. And on defense down the stretch we simply couldn't stop a bucks offense that is far from scary. I think they scored on 8 of their last 10 possessions or something like that.
Time to move on. I don't know who the next guy is, but this team doesn't execute out of timeouts or down the stretch on key possessions on either end in my opinion. Kidd has a team that is just as young, and it's not like his go to players are superior talents to ours. MCW and Greg Monroe are no better weapons that what Phoenix has.
kennydorglas wrote:Apparently Hornacek is losing his mind in the post-game interview.
Jdiddy701 wrote:bwgood77 wrote:Jdiddy701 wrote:Bledsoe 3 TO's to end the game.. Not putting the loss on him. Bledsoe doesn't have help.
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What does not having help have to do with his turnovers? Knight and Bledsoe's turnovers at the end of games is inexcusable.
Defenders focus on Bledsoe. It's easy to guard. You know he's not passing the ball to Leuer, Tucker and Tyson so they play him tight. That's why him and Knight play hot potato all game, we have a lot of bad players. When Warren is in, it definitely helps Bledsoe.
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RunDogGun wrote:batsmasher wrote:RunDogGun wrote:He doesn't take many shots. It's hard to make a dent on offense if people only look at the stats, if you don't shoot that much.
He's had his fair share of "here comes Austin Rivers" moments this season though, and they REALLY hurt us on offense. The only player who had been worse offensively with any minutes had been Kieff. Doesn't help when his corner 3 has gone from ~40% to 29% either.
It usually happens when the whole team is sucking, and he tries to do more than he should. When the other guys do their job, it's easier for Tucker to play the role he should.