Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[musiqsoulchild]

Why can't both be true?

It happens like ALL the time in sports. To the best of them even.

See George Karl for example.

Think there was a mix up there somewhere.

What I'm saying can't be both true is that Jimmy is lying but people were right about the team quitting on Thibs.

I mean based on eye test, effort is the same. If they quit last year, don't think they have stopped quitting.

It's also possible ( actually likely) that Thibs, Pau and Jimmy felt like more minutes , more reps and busting your guts on each possession even during the regular season was the ONLY way to play basketball. There are several verifiable statements that can be attributed to this.

On the flip side, folks like Rose, Taj, Noah, Kirk PLUS Gar and Jen and now Fred ---- maybe all about optimizing the regular season INSTEAD of maximizing it.

Through that lens Jimmy will always see the rest of the team as not trying hard enough.

[Rerisen]

Why does thread say FO goes nuclear on Jimmy? I didn't see anything about the Front office commenting on this.By reading I thought maybe they were going to fine Jimmy or something.Honestly maybe they should.

Exactly. KC Johnson wrote a piece and of course it must be that the FO put him up to it. Like when the New York times writes an anti-gun piece after a mass shooting it is obviously because Obama gave them a ring and sent them the write-up, correct?

Isola will get to the bottom of this.

[kyrv]

The bigger issue for me is not that Jimmy said something about the coach or the FO.

It's his direct, repeated accusations about his teammates not playing hard.

Just last week Taj took exception to what Jimmy said. Now we've heard of Noah.

Taj and Noah - that's all you need to know that Jimmy messed up.

I'm with you on this. People are taking what he said as an attack to Fred but in reality he used Fred to attack his teammates.

Hey Ralph!

I was wondering that also, he certainly wasn't suggesting Fred be replaced as the awful thread title states. But it's a bad idea, whatever his intent.

Jimmy's consistent beef has been the effort of teammates.

[WesleyExChiFan]

Really makes you wonder about Jimmy's thought process in resigning here.

Many at the time read into those rumors that he might not want to come get locked up here.

Perhaps he was in doubt, but once he decided to stick with it, he made up his mind that to do so, the team was going to have to go a new direction. The Jimmy Butler direction. And this is all part of the struggle to make it so.

One that will either be tumultuous for a while, but end up resettled for the better, or one that could blow up the team, even to the extent of trading our best player.

Reminds me of Melo-Gate. Get the deal first, you can always get a trade after.

Knicks would probably do a deal centered around Butler for Melo, but that's about the type of losing offers I think we'd get.

Melo lit Butler up. Big time. That deal is a push right now, at WORST

[Rerisen]

It's also possible ( actually likely) that Thibs, Pau and Jimmy felt like more minutes , more reps and busting your guts on each possession even during the regular season was the ONLY way to play basketball. There are several verifiable statements that can be attributed to this.

On the flip side, folks like Rose, Taj, Noah, Kirk PLUS Gar and Jen and now Fred ---- maybe all about optimizing the regular season INSTEAD of maximizing it.

Through that lens Jimmy will always see the rest of the team as not trying hard enough.

I really don't know but something not good has to be bubbling below the surface.

Because despite some people think we maybe should be ahead of the Cavs at this point, we aren't doing THAT bad, to where it makes Jimmy to come out and say this.

Our record is outperforming our metrics, we're close to 2nd seed and we just loss a tough 4 OT game vs another good team, which in effect caused the next fatigue loss.

But had just won 4 prior straight. So based on results, the outburst seems out of step with the situation.

Which is why it makes me think this is something that has been boiling up a while, at least with Jimmy. Of course he's made effort comments before this one.

Perhaps he felt all of last year was a big under achieving, and if we were firing Thibs for it, a guy he saw a kindred spirit in as far as intensity, he then expected the new coach to actually clean up the rest of the roster's effort and just isn't happening.

[kyrv]

Thanks. So curious who the culprits are in Jimmy's eyes.

He named himself and Fred.

Other than that, we don't know. Seemed a generic team wide aspersion.

The guys that really try like Noah and Taj, can see why they would take offense.

Which, Jimmy is learning, is a problem. By not naming names, he's put the entire rotation in the cross hairs. Taj, Noah, and Homie don't play that game.

[NecessaryEvil]

Really makes you wonder about Jimmy's thought process in resigning here.

Many at the time read into those rumors that he might not want to come get locked up here.

Perhaps he was in doubt, but once he decided to stick with it, he made up his mind that to do so, the team was going to have to go a new direction. The Jimmy Butler direction. And this is all part of the struggle to make it so.

One that will either be tumultuous for a while, but end up resettled for the better, or one that could blow up the team, even to the extent of trading our best player.

Reminds me of Melo-Gate. Get the deal first, you can always get a trade after.

Knicks would probably do a deal centered around Butler for Melo, but that's about the type of losing offers I think we'd get.

I can't rock with Melo

Butler and parts for Cousins and parts pls

[Rerisen]

Reminds me of Melo-Gate. Get the deal first, you can always get a trade after.

Knicks would probably do a deal centered around Butler for Melo, but that's about the type of losing offers I think we'd get.

Melo lit Butler up. Big time. That deal is a push right now, at WORST

Not in terms of age and future planning.

Since Melo doesn't make us a real contender this year alone in such a swap, would be a loser deal overall.

[CmonScal]

That's the issue. To be honest, he's acting a bit like Brandon Marshall. Brandon also cared quite a bit, but he had multiple episodes where he exploded in the locker room to coaches and teammates. He also threw Jay under the bus late last year to the media.

Going on tirades, cursing out coaches, calling names to the media. That's not leadership.

I don't think Jimmy is the cancer Brandon was though and I think this can be corrected. If he expects this type of leadership though will get guys to follow him, he's sorely mistaken.

Yea, and look at how awful the Jets are now thanks to cancerous Brandon Marshall and how well the playoff-bound Bears are faring. Oh wait.

[Rerisen]

Thanks. So curious who the culprits are in Jimmy's eyes.

He named himself and Fred.

Other than that, we don't know. Seemed a generic team wide aspersion.

The guys that really try like Noah and Taj, can see why they would take offense.

Which, Jimmy is learning, is a problem. By not naming names, he's put the entire rotation in the cross hairs. Taj, Noah, and Homie don't play that game.

Kirk should come in the training room holding his leg in his arms and show Jimmy he's doing everything he can.

[TheAdmiral]

Reminds me of Melo-Gate. Get the deal first, you can always get a trade after.

Knicks would probably do a deal centered around Butler for Melo, but that's about the type of losing offers I think we'd get.

Melo lit Butler up. Big time. That deal is a push right now, at WORST

Jimmy came off of playing a 4OT game while Carmelo and the rest of the Knicks starters were rested against the Sixers in the fourth quarter.

[kyrv]

Pau has basically said the same thing as Jimmy right after the Clippers game

Thanks. So curious who the culprits are in Jimmy's eyes.

So if it isn't Rose, and it isn't Pau...and it certainly isn't Noah...

I have said since the comments started I believe it is Niko. A lot of American players have a bit of a thing about European players being soft. Hard to believe that is who Pau meant though. Niko...Snell... who else could it be? And if Butler is blowing this all up over Tony Snell..well, I take back what I said about him not being stupid.

But obviously, I don't know for sure; because all Jimmy does it make inflammatory vague, general comments to the press.

My guess is that Rose is on the list. Niko, meh, maybe, he doesn't play enough to warrant this reaction by himself.

[Rerisen]

Also, Melo's contract makes Jimmy's look piddly.

[Rerisen]

Thanks. So curious who the culprits are in Jimmy's eyes.

So if it isn't Rose, and it isn't Pau...and it certainly isn't Noah...

I have said since the comments started I believe it is Niko. A lot of American players have a bit of a thing about European players being soft. Hard to believe that is who Pau meant though. Niko...Snell... who else could it be? And if Butler is blowing this all up over Tony Snell..well, I take back what I said about him not being stupid.

But obviously, I don't know for sure; because all Jimmy does it make inflammatory vague, general comments to the press.

My guess is that Rose is on the list. Niko, meh, maybe, he doesn't play enough to warrant this reaction by himself.

KC or one of the writers, wrote he didn't mean Rose.

Major board narrative shot down, I know. It would tidy this one right up.

[bennjuiced34]

That's the issue. To be honest, he's acting a bit like Brandon Marshall. Brandon also cared quite a bit, but he had multiple episodes where he exploded in the locker room to coaches and teammates. He also threw Jay under the bus late last year to the media.

Going on tirades, cursing out coaches, calling names to the media. That's not leadership.

I don't think Jimmy is the cancer Brandon was though and I think this can be corrected. If he expects this type of leadership though will get guys to follow him, he's sorely mistaken.

Yea, and look at how awful the Jets are now thanks to cancerous Brandon Marshall and how well the playoff-bound Bears are faring. Oh wait.

Doesn't change the fact that Marshall needed to go. And the 2 teams before the Bears would agree as well.

Once **** goes south in New York, Marshall will show his true colors again.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[NecessaryEvil]

He named himself and Fred.

Other than that, we don't know. Seemed a generic team wide aspersion.

The guys that really try like Noah and Taj, can see why they would take offense.

Which, Jimmy is learning, is a problem. By not naming names, he's put the entire rotation in the cross hairs. Taj, Noah, and Homie don't play that game.

Kirk should come in the training room holding his leg in his arms and show Jimmy he's doing everything he can.

lol

[DarthDiggler69]

Wait, Butler didn't say it was about certain players not playing hard, it seemed more about players not following the plays that Fred drew up. Am i missing something?

[Rerisen]

Wait, Butler didn't say it was about certain players not playing hard, it seemed more about players not following the plays that Fred drew up. Am i missing something?

He said players have to "match up and *do your job*" could be interpreted as effort pretty easily as well as X and O's.

But wow that phrase, "Do Your Job." Pretty revealing wording. For a guy that still talks to Thibs.

Jimmy is trying to keep the ghost of Thibs's tenets alive perhaps.

[DarthDiggler69]

My guess is that Rose is on the list. Niko, meh, maybe, he doesn't play enough to warrant this reaction by himself.

KC said it Wasn't About Rose, and if anyone noticed Rose is wayyyyyyy more aggressive since that 76ers game so its likely not him. Its probably Snell, Niko and maybe Brooks, those guys are weak links sometimes. Brooks does whatever he feels like, Niko is sloppy sometimes and Snell does his David Copperfield impression and disappears

[Stratmaster]

He named himself and Fred.

Other than that, we don't know. Seemed a generic team wide aspersion.

The guys that really try like Noah and Taj, can see why they would take offense.

Which, Jimmy is learning, is a problem. By not naming names, he's put the entire rotation in the cross hairs. Taj, Noah, and Homie don't play that game.

Kirk should come in the training room holding his leg in his arms and show Jimmy he's doing everything he can.

THAT was funny!