Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[Stratmaster]

Thanks. So curious who the culprits are in Jimmy's eyes.

So if it isn't Rose, and it isn't Pau...and it certainly isn't Noah...

I have said since the comments started I believe it is Niko. A lot of American players have a bit of a thing about European players being soft. Hard to believe that is who Pau meant though. Niko...Snell... who else could it be? And if Butler is blowing this all up over Tony Snell..well, I take back what I said about him not being stupid.

But obviously, I don't know for sure; because all Jimmy does it make inflammatory vague, general comments to the press.

My guess is that Rose is on the list. Niko, meh, maybe, he doesn't play enough to warrant this reaction by himself.

But supposedly a source near Butler said he wasn't referring to Rose. Who knows...not me...

[kyrv]

My guess is that Rose is on the list. Niko, meh, maybe, he doesn't play enough to warrant this reaction by himself.

KC said it Wasn't About Rose, and if anyone noticed Rose is wayyyyyyy more aggressive since that 76ers game so its likely not him. Its probably Snell, Niko and maybe Brooks, those guys are weak links sometimes

Thanks. Those guys shouldn't warrant Jimmy going nitro, but who knows.

[kyrv]

So if it isn't Rose, and it isn't Pau...and it certainly isn't Noah...

I have said since the comments started I believe it is Niko. A lot of American players have a bit of a thing about European players being soft. Hard to believe that is who Pau meant though. Niko...Snell... who else could it be? And if Butler is blowing this all up over Tony Snell..well, I take back what I said about him not being stupid.

But obviously, I don't know for sure; because all Jimmy does it make inflammatory vague, general comments to the press.

My guess is that Rose is on the list. Niko, meh, maybe, he doesn't play enough to warrant this reaction by himself.

KC or one of the writers, wrote he didn't mean Rose.

Major board narrative shot down, I know. It would tidy this one right up.

Well would be nice if those two are getting on better for sure.

[BoozerRoNo]

Why can't both be true?

It happens like ALL the time in sports. To the best of them even.

See George Karl for example.

Think there was a mix up there somewhere.

What I'm saying can't be both true is that Jimmy is lying but people were right about the team quitting on Thibs.

I mean based on eye test, effort is the same. If they quit last year, don't think they have stopped quitting.

It's also possible ( actually likely) that Thibs, Pau and Jimmy felt like more minutes , more reps and busting your guts on each possession even during the regular season was the ONLY way to play basketball. There are several verifiable statements that can be attributed to this.

On the flip side, folks like Rose, Taj, Noah, Kirk PLUS Gar and Jen and now Fred ---- maybe all about optimizing the regular season INSTEAD of maximizing it.

Through that lens Jimmy will always see the rest of the team as not trying hard enough.

True but two things that I wonder is if Rose was really sick or was Hoiberg making an excuse for his bad play. Was Rose blurred vision as bad as Hoiberg wanted to make people think. I mean if Rose was driving himself to practice his vision wasn't all that bad after a few games into the season.

Rose only plays hard on national tv has got to be frustrating for a guy that has play d score and play the most minutes on the team.

Not only that but Rose and Butler don't play well together.

Jimmy is talking about Rose, Snell, and Mirotic who are playing like crap and Hoiberg is defending them and not saying much to them about their bad play.

[Rerisen]

Well would be nice if those two are getting on better for sure.

If their relationship is based on effort, well Rose is going harder of late (if not better). Not so much in NY, but don't really blame him there. Whole team was gassed.

[fleet]

So if it isn't Rose, and it isn't Pau...and it certainly isn't Noah...

I have said since the comments started I believe it is Niko. A lot of American players have a bit of a thing about European players being soft. Hard to believe that is who Pau meant though. Niko...Snell... who else could it be? And if Butler is blowing this all up over Tony Snell..well, I take back what I said about him not being stupid.

But obviously, I don't know for sure; because all Jimmy does it make inflammatory vague, general comments to the press.

My guess is that Rose is on the list. Niko, meh, maybe, he doesn't play enough to warrant this reaction by himself.

But supposedly a source near Butler said he wasn't referring to Rose. Who knows...not me...

Those MJ quotes are good wallpaper for me on this. Because right now, I think Jimmy is in that zone where nobody can match his focus and fire, so every little mistake and ommision is also a major problem for him to deal with. It isn't Rose. Its Rose, Gasol, Noah, Taj, Niko, Portis, Doug, Snell, Brooks, Kurt, Moore, and even CamBair who doesn't play.

[Rerisen]

I bet a lot of this wasn't as calculated as we are making out.

Butler will probably be taken back by the blowback.

He was really determined after that loss to DET, didn't say much then, but that they have to come out and win the next one. Then they lost the next one.... badly. Probably high frustration.

He's new to this team leader thing. Stepped in it a bit and will learn. Still not good if what he says is and seems to be true.

Think the FO made a mistake trying to pile on him though.

[Stratmaster]

Think there was a mix up there somewhere.

What I'm saying can't be both true is that Jimmy is lying but people were right about the team quitting on Thibs.

I mean based on eye test, effort is the same. If they quit last year, don't think they have stopped quitting.

It's also possible ( actually likely) that Thibs, Pau and Jimmy felt like more minutes , more reps and busting your guts on each possession even during the regular season was the ONLY way to play basketball. There are several verifiable statements that can be attributed to this.

On the flip side, folks like Rose, Taj, Noah, Kirk PLUS Gar and Jen and now Fred ---- maybe all about optimizing the regular season INSTEAD of maximizing it.

Through that lens Jimmy will always see the rest of the team as not trying hard enough.

True but two things that I wonder is if Rose was really sick or was Hoiberg making an excuse for his bad play. Was Rose blurred vision as bad as Hoiberg wanted to make people think. I mean if Rose was driving himself to practice his vision wasn't all that bad after a few games into the season.

Rose only plays hard on national tv has got to be frustrating for a guy that has play d score and play the most minutes on the team.

Not only that but Rose and Butler don't play well together.

Jimmy is talking about Rose, Snell, and Mirotic who are playing like crap and Hoiberg is defending them and not saying much to them about their bad play.

Mirotic got benched. Snell's minutes have been Boganized. Rose got pulled from a game out of normal rotation. Fred isn't idly standing by watching. H e has a different idea of how to handle the situation. You can debate who has the right approach. But there was no reason for Butler to do what he did.

Rose's vision issue over the recent stretch was explained as "he still has double vision when he looks down". I don't have any idea whether Rose drove himself to games early in the season or how his vision affects his driving.

[WIN]

What did the FO say/do??? How did they go nuclear? Im not bothering trying to access tribune content.

[Rerisen]

What did the FO say/do??? How did they go nuclear? Im not bothering trying to access tribune content.

Follow KC's twitter links, usually bypasses that stuff, least does for me.

https://twitter.com/ChicagoSports/status/678427100634857472

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-bulls-jimmy-butler-fred-hoiberg-spt-1221-20151220-column.html

[BoozerRoNo]

Well would be nice if those two are getting on better for sure.

If their relationship is based on effort, well Rose is going harder of late (if not better). Not so much in NY, but don't really blame him there. Whole team was gassed.

Derrick Rose doesn't have an excuse he has missed more games than Duncan. He should suck it up taken and pretend it was a national tv game.

[GetBuLLish]

Well would be nice if those two are getting on better for sure.

If their relationship is based on effort, well Rose is going harder of late (if not better). Not so much in NY, but don't really blame him there. Whole team was gassed.

Derrick Rose doesn't have an excuse he has missed more games than Duncan. He should suck it up taken and pretend it was a national tv game.

Speaking of horrible logic, what happened to Dajody10? Seems to have gone radio silent after the KC article was posted...

[kodo]

KC says it's not about Rose, KC also told us Luol would never be traded.
I don't think KC's insider knowledge is extremely deep, he's an observer IMO.

Here's a quote from Butler's own mouth (from October)...how is the complain from Butler that the team has no leadership because leaders have to play hard not aimed at Rose?

This comment isn't about Mirotic or Aaron Brooks; they're not team leaders.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/7/71/1017043/jimmy-butlers-latest-comments-show-clear-change-previous-years

“I think I can lead vocally, and obviously with my actions on the court. I can’t tell anybody to do something if I’m not doing it. I can’t ask one of these rookies to dive on the floor if I’m not diving on the floor, take a charge if I’m not taking a charge. Leadership is one of the only things that this team has really been lacking.

From an outsider’s perspective, leadership would seem to be the one thing the team had. With vocal veteran Joakim Noah and former MVP Derrick Rose, there has never been a problem finding a “face of the team.”

However, with his new role, Butler seems ready and willing to become the leader for the Bulls.

Neither Noah nor Rose were mentioned by name at all by Butler in the story. But it would be hard not to draw conclusions about the two after reading Butler’s comments.

[Rerisen]

Butler had amazing capital on this team, other than a few fans that kind of resent his status. Pretty much teflon till now.

Seems he burned up a lot of it in parts of the fabanse, not so much for me, but we'll see if it turns out to be a good investment by him.

It's being read as almost a sure bad play, but who knows, maybe we come out and kill the Nets and get back on a roll.

Season needs some drama team is boooooring.

[bulliedog8]

And Joakim wasn't defended for his actions like Butler is being defended by certain people here.

No one is more defended than Derrick Rose. Going Clubbing when his team loses in playoffs, its about life after basketball, accused of rape, its about 2017 free agency, its not my job to recruit, only plays hard on national tv now, quitting in the playoffs.

thee hell?

The HEAT were in the club with the Mavs after they won the title in Miami.

bruh

hahaha people act like you SHOULD and NEED to be depressed and locked up in a room after losing. Honestly, going out and having fun would probably be the best idea after a loss to make yourself feel better. A lot of fans acting like these players arent human. There is more to life than sports, no matter how much guys say they would beat their parents up if it meant winning.

[BeatDaCavs420]

LOL @ this thread title

Goes nuclear on jimmy

[murphs5150]

Quote:
“I hate being out there with those garbagemen. They don’t get you the ball.”

Quote:
“They’ve got no idea what it’s all about. The white guys, they work hard, but they don’t have the talent. And the rest of them? Who knows what to expect? They’re not good for much of anything.”

Quote:
“I know what’s gonna happen. We’ll wait until the last minute and then they’ll say something like they couldn’t get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don’t know why I’m surprised every year.”

Quote:
“He can’t do anything with the ball. Don’t give it to him.” – Michael yelling at Paxson who passed the ball to Perdue

Quote:
“You ever hear of a guy, six-eleven maybe and two hundred sixty pounds, a guy big and fat like that and he can’t get but two rebounds, if that many, running all over the damn court and he gets two rebounds? Big guy like that and he gets one rebound. Can’t even stick his ass into people and get more than that…Big, fat, fat guy. One rebound in three games. Power forward. Maybe they should call it powerless forward.” – Michael ripping Stacey King a new one

Quote:
“He was scared in there and panicking. He just lost it when Stockton scored.” – Michael on B.J. Armstrong’s mental fragility

Quote:
I’ll let them stand up and take responsibility for themselves.”

Quote:
“We have to do some things. We need to make some changes.”

Quote:
“…I call them ‘the Looney Tunes.’ Physically, they were the best. Mentally, they weren’t even close.”

Quote:
“He’s scared. He’s got no heart…Nobody told me that. If I had spoken up, he wouldn’t have been here.”

Quote:
“I know I can recognize what to do, but I’m not sure they can.”

Quote:
“It’s a hell of a lot easier to make Earl Monroe look good than it is Brad Sellers.”

Quote:
“I hope there’s a jumpshot in there.” – Michael to Stacey King who was walking into the locker room with a box

Quote:
“They don’t need a ticket to watch you sitting on the bench. They can go to your house for that.” – Michael to Charles Davis who was sorting through his tickets for his family and friends

Quote:
“Give me the fu*king ball.” – Michael to Doug Collins who drew up a play for Dave Corzine

Quote:
“I hate when I have to read that in the papers the next day, that I couldn’t do something. It wasn’t my fault.”

Quote:
“You’re an idiot. You’ve screwed up every play we ever ran. You’re too stupid to even remember the plays. We ought to get rid of you.” – Michael to Horace Grant

Quote:
“If you [pass the ball to Bill Cartwright], you’ll never get the ball from me.”

Quote:
“We’re not winning because of talent. We’re just beating bad teams.”

Quote:
“Headache tonight, Scottie?” – Michael asks Scottie, while showing him his 2-for-16 line

Quote:
“It’s probably a twelve-day. He needs two days to wake up.” – Michael on a ten-day contract teammate

Quote:
“Five more years and I’m out of here. I’m marking these days on a calendar, like I’m in jail. I’m tired of being used by this organization, by the league, by the writers, by everyone.”

Quote:
“They’re not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won’t make any deals to make us better. And this Kukoc thing. I hate that. They’re spending all their time chasing this guy.”

Quote:
“If I were a general manager, we’d be a better team.”

Quote:
“Will Vanderbilt. He doesn’t deserve to be named after a Big Ten school.” – Michael on Will Perdue – AWESOME!

Quote:
“I want to prove the critics wrong…I want to see some serious moves from management, which I really haven’t seen that much of yet, and I want to see more serious attitudes from my teammates this year when it comes to the playoffs. In the past, it’s been more or less a joking thing, sort of a ‘Well, we’re here, so let’s have a good time.'”……….

Quote:
“I’m sure everything will be fine if we win, but if we start losing, I’m shooting.”

Quote:
“I know what I would do if I were coach. I’d determine our strengths and weaknesses and utilize them. And it’s pretty clear what our strength is.”

Quote:
“Your boy doesn’t want to play. I’m tired of bailing his ass out.” – Michael yelling at Jim Cleamons about Dennis Hopson

Quote:
“I don’t know about trading a 24 year-old guy for a 34 year-old guy.” – Michael questioning the Oakley trade

Quote:
“He’s causing me too many turnovers.” – Michael on Cartwright’s inability to catch

Quote:
“Why the hell don’t you ever set a pick like that in a game?” – Michael yelling at Perdue after also hitting Perdue upside his head (led to the institution of the private curtain for

Hopson was never the same player after playing with Jordan. Totally destroyed.

[NecessaryEvil]

LOL @ this thread title

Goes nuclear on jimmy

50 lame as hell

[TheAdmiral]

Season needs some drama team is boooooring.

Only if it leads to some changes for the better/to something good. Otherwise, I'm not interested.

[Rerisen]

Season needs some drama team is boooooring.

Only if it leads to some changes for the better/to something good. Otherwise, I'm not interested.

That's the best outcome, but even if its neutral, they all have a nice 'talk' and move on, I kind of welcome it vs sleepwalking to the same type ending as last year.