Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[Ice Man]

How do you explain Zach Lowe? A reputed NBA reporter. Was his piece also a GarPax mouthpiece? Did GarPax use the Iowa / Chicago mafia to force Lowe to indulge in the "smear campaign"?

As has already been explained on this thread, those two articles are very different. Zach Lowe did not authenticate what K.C. Johnson wrote, so let's not bring him into the discussion.

[musiqsoulchild]

The way it works is very simple: Trump says something about Hillary to the media. Then the media goes to Hillary for a comment about Trumps comment. And ultimately, Trump comes out looking like an idiot.

That's not what happened. GarPax made no public comment on what Jimmy Butler said. The correct analogy is that in response to Trump's comment, which it did not like, Hillary's campaign team called journalists known to be favorable and dished up ugly details, given strictly off the record, that the team had learned about Trump's 2nd divorce.

You are EXACTLY right --- except for the part about Trump's second divorce.

Jimmy cussing out at the coaching staff and not wanting to practice with his other teammates ARE both directly related to the issue of DAMAGING Jimmy's credibility as a leader.

And then Fred follows it up with " He is a good leader" AND worse " He is one of the leaders".

Trumps second divorce doesnt impact the presidential run directly --- but Trump having his second divorce AND not paying alimony payments (for example) goes DIRECTLY to his credibility as a presidential candidate.

No one is talking about Jimmy's sex life or his eating habits, The story was DIRECTLY in relation to discrediting Jimmy's "leadership" BS.

[TheStig]

Jimmy HIMSELF said that some people may agree with his assessment and some people may NOT. He was talking about Bulls players --- -does that sound like a FACT to you OR a Jimmy School of Leadership endorsed opinion?

Contrast that to the following:

1) Noah didnt like that Jimmy was practicing by himself and spoke to him about it. FACT. If not, either Noah or Jimmy would have said something about it.

2) Taj doesnt agree with Jimmy's assertions about the team not playing hard enough - he did in 2015, not this season. This season he has contradicted Jimmy specifically AND lauded Fred for having a balanced approach.

As far as seasoned executives are concerned - I dont know what they have to do with this. Unless its another "opinion" being bandied about as a "Fact" that Gar Pax will leak stories to the media.

The media doesnt have that level of access. An assistant coach or a trainer or a 14th -15th player in the rotation or an agent --- those are typically the sources.

NBA FO's dont have all this time to get caught up in trivial ****.

FYI
1. Could easily be that Jimmy gets in early and practices by himself.
2. Which leads us to 2 that could be the sames. Not to mention, Taj doesn't strike me as a hard worker in practice either.


That is laughable at your "opinion" that long time media and a Bulls employee (sam smith) don't have access. Its a joke that its an assistant coach or 14-15 guy. With all the turnover, you're basically painting pete myers and randy brown as the culprits. Two guys that are clearly front office yes men. SO I guess its true that they could have said it after someone higher up asked.

But I'm not engaging in this lengthy debate with you. We have long time opposite opinions on the matter and neither will convince the other. I just really dislike your assertions of fact and opinion because 99% of this is opinion and not provable beyond any doubt. All we have to go by is the track record and historical events that build a case.

Explain Zsch Lowe's article --- if this is all opinion that was pushed hard by Gar Pax on KC as a "revenge" piece.

Even typing that sounds comical. Revenge piece --- who has the time for that.

Its much more likely that the basketball media smelled a story with repeated assertions from Jimmy to Scoop Jackson and then in the actual Post-Game.

And then they went and did their job - which is to investigate and report.

Sure -- some parties that were offended by Jimmy's move could have been the sources. But thats hardly eye-raising. Its human behavior. And justifiable, human behavior in this case.

The Lowe article wasn't overly negative. It mentioned some resentment. Which I can clearly see considering Noah has never made the money that Jimmy has and he was the main one quoted. Nor has he gotten the spotlight and is on his way out of the league.

But I really don't have time or the patience for a long drawn out debate with you. We will never convince either of us of the others point of view. We are both entrenched on opposite sides.

If this team makes the leap, it will be on the back of Jimmy and hard work.

[musiqsoulchild]

How do you explain Zach Lowe? A reputed NBA reporter. Was his piece also a GarPax mouthpiece? Did GarPax use the Iowa / Chicago mafia to force Lowe to indulge in the "smear campaign"?

As has already been explained on this thread, those two articles are very different. Zach Lowe did not authenticate what K.C. Johnson wrote, so let's not bring him into the discussion.

So, 2 articles from different authors both saying how Jimmy's leadership isnt being received like Jimmy thinks it is.

Sounds about right.

Either Jimmy is a megalomaniac or everyone in the media, his team, his coaching staff are all wrong and Jimmy is right.

Or, there is the sane, contextual option that Jimmy was wrong to lead through the media. His content maybe valid - but his delivery and approach makes it impossible to focus on the content of his message.

[TheStig]

The way it works is very simple: Trump says something about Hillary to the media. Then the media goes to Hillary for a comment about Trumps comment. And ultimately, Trump comes out looking like an idiot.

That's not what happened. GarPax made no public comment on what Jimmy Butler said. The correct analogy is that in response to Trump's comment, which it did not like, Hillary's campaign team called journalists known to be favorable and dished up ugly details, given strictly off the record, that the team had learned about Trump's 2nd divorce.

You are EXACTLY right --- except for the part about Trump's second divorce.

Jimmy cussing out at the coaching staff and not wanting to practice with his other teammates ARE both directly related to the issue of DAMAGING Jimmy's credibility as a leader.

And then Fred follows it up with " He is a good leader" AND worse " He is one of the leaders".

Trumps second divorce doesnt impact the presidential run directly --- but Trump having his second divorce AND not paying alimony payments (for example) goes DIRECTLY to his credibility as a presidential candidate.

No one is talking about Jimmy's sex life or his eating habits, The story was DIRECTLY in relation to discrediting Jimmy's "leadership" BS.

Gar? Could you please work on a trade for an SF instead of defending your craziness? Might want to use some of that down time between the FA and Draft periods for some actual work.

[musiqsoulchild]

FYI
1. Could easily be that Jimmy gets in early and practices by himself.
2. Which leads us to 2 that could be the sames. Not to mention, Taj doesn't strike me as a hard worker in practice either.


That is laughable at your "opinion" that long time media and a Bulls employee (sam smith) don't have access. Its a joke that its an assistant coach or 14-15 guy. With all the turnover, you're basically painting pete myers and randy brown as the culprits. Two guys that are clearly front office yes men. SO I guess its true that they could have said it after someone higher up asked.

But I'm not engaging in this lengthy debate with you. We have long time opposite opinions on the matter and neither will convince the other. I just really dislike your assertions of fact and opinion because 99% of this is opinion and not provable beyond any doubt. All we have to go by is the track record and historical events that build a case.

Explain Zsch Lowe's article --- if this is all opinion that was pushed hard by Gar Pax on KC as a "revenge" piece.

Even typing that sounds comical. Revenge piece --- who has the time for that.

Its much more likely that the basketball media smelled a story with repeated assertions from Jimmy to Scoop Jackson and then in the actual Post-Game.

And then they went and did their job - which is to investigate and report.

Sure -- some parties that were offended by Jimmy's move could have been the sources. But thats hardly eye-raising. Its human behavior. And justifiable, human behavior in this case.

The Lowe article wasn't overly negative. It mentioned some resentment. Which I can clearly see considering Noah has never made the money that Jimmy has and he was the main one quoted. Nor has he gotten the spotlight and is on his way out of the league.

But I really don't have time or the patience for a long drawn out debate with you. We will never convince either of us of the others point of view. We are both entrenched on opposite sides.

If this team makes the leap, it will be on the back of Jimmy and hard work.

I am sorry that you see it that way - I dont see this as having 2 opposite views.

I see it as some fans on our board being happy that someone with power (Jimmy in this case) unlike us poor saps - who can only write Millions of words but to no avail ----- is saying something publicly about how the coach is not doing a good job.

And the coach is a proxy to this segment of fans --- a proxy for GarPax. So, if this coach fails or is ridiculed --- then by proxy this FO has failed.

Which, is a juicy, succulent outcome for some of us.

For me personally - if the FO fails - more than anyone else failing including Rose etc - we'd have to go through SO MUCH CHANGE.

I'd rather have a successful FO than the hope for a great one. Because with the hope for a great FO comes OKC and Houston. "Great" FO execs like Sam Presti and Daryl Morey and Doc Rivers are EATING it now for several seasons.

[musiqsoulchild]

That's not what happened. GarPax made no public comment on what Jimmy Butler said. The correct analogy is that in response to Trump's comment, which it did not like, Hillary's campaign team called journalists known to be favorable and dished up ugly details, given strictly off the record, that the team had learned about Trump's 2nd divorce.

You are EXACTLY right --- except for the part about Trump's second divorce.

Jimmy cussing out at the coaching staff and not wanting to practice with his other teammates ARE both directly related to the issue of DAMAGING Jimmy's credibility as a leader.

And then Fred follows it up with " He is a good leader" AND worse " He is one of the leaders".

Trumps second divorce doesnt impact the presidential run directly --- but Trump having his second divorce AND not paying alimony payments (for example) goes DIRECTLY to his credibility as a presidential candidate.

No one is talking about Jimmy's sex life or his eating habits, The story was DIRECTLY in relation to discrediting Jimmy's "leadership" BS.

Gar? Could you please work on a trade for an SF instead of defending your craziness? Might want to use some of that down time between the FA and Draft periods for some actual work.

I am not Gar Forman. Easily verifiable by anyone who has seen me at Doug's draft parties.

On a related note - I wish I had Gar's job. I bet you good money that I can create a team than generates MORE money AND more playoff success than the one's that this FO has created.

I would have traded Derrick as soon as the Reggie piece came out.

[wolffy]

I find this whole saga interesting.

Sometimes stars put there stamp on a team and don't care who's toes get stepped on. And its a good thing ultimately.

Other times they aren't able to pull off the same power play, either because they aren't respected for some reason or they aren't good enough.

I'd like to see Jimmy pull it off honestly. He's a good player and has a great work ethic. He has to get his leadership skills right. Rose has to take a back seat if that what it comes to.

That's simply what it boils down to. Jimmy can be a leader of this team, or even the leader. But the extremes you go to with leadership will only be tolerated if you have the hardware to back it up. You can't throw teammates and coaches under the bus just because you made the all-star team last season. There are many veterans on this team and some are more accomplished than Jimmy. Maybe it works on the younger players, but that's really only McDermottt, Snell, Mirotic and Portis.

I agree to a point but leaders aren't always the nice guys who say all the right things. I don't think throwing guys under the bus is right but its not a standard one way or the other.

[TheStig]

Explain Zsch Lowe's article --- if this is all opinion that was pushed hard by Gar Pax on KC as a "revenge" piece.

Even typing that sounds comical. Revenge piece --- who has the time for that.

Its much more likely that the basketball media smelled a story with repeated assertions from Jimmy to Scoop Jackson and then in the actual Post-Game.

And then they went and did their job - which is to investigate and report.

Sure -- some parties that were offended by Jimmy's move could have been the sources. But thats hardly eye-raising. Its human behavior. And justifiable, human behavior in this case.

The Lowe article wasn't overly negative. It mentioned some resentment. Which I can clearly see considering Noah has never made the money that Jimmy has and he was the main one quoted. Nor has he gotten the spotlight and is on his way out of the league.

But I really don't have time or the patience for a long drawn out debate with you. We will never convince either of us of the others point of view. We are both entrenched on opposite sides.

If this team makes the leap, it will be on the back of Jimmy and hard work.

I am sorry that you see it that way - I dont see this as having 2 opposite views.

I see it as some fans on our board being happy that someone with power (Jimmy in this case) unlike us poor saps - who can only write Millions of words but to no avail ----- is saying something publicly about how the coach is not doing a good job.

And the coach is a proxy to this segment of fans --- a proxy for GarPax. So, if this coach fails or is ridiculed --- then by proxy this FO has failed.

Which, is a juicy, succulent outcome for some of us.

For me personally - if the FO fails - more than anyone else failing including Rose etc - we'd have to go through SO MUCH CHANGE.

I'd rather have a successful FO than the hope for a great one. Because with the hope for a great FO comes OKC and Houston. "Great" FO execs like Sam Presti and Daryl Morey and Doc Rivers are EATING it now for several seasons.

Where did he say Hoiberg was doing a bad job or was not a good coach? He just wanted everyone to be pushed harder.

It's not about toppling the FO. Its not about their public humiliation. They're not some evil 3rd world regime. IIt's like in any business, you have to work on your weaknesses and develop them. You can't sit on your previous achievements (which aren't really that good to begin with) and continue down the same path.

GarPax clearly have to work on acquiring top tier talent, trades and relationships with their subordinates (coaches, assistants and players). I just want to hold them accountable for that and see it improve. My problem with them is that they have no entrenched themselves in a position that it won't happen. It's like some old family business owner that says I've been selling x since 1962 this way and then doesn't understand why Walmart wiped him out.

You're fundamental view is that you like a consistently good product but not great. I like the highs and will suffer through the lows for a great product. I'd rather have the dynasty Bulls and then the 8 years after than 10 years of this and hoping Bron isn't there for us at the end of our playoff runs every year.

[musiqsoulchild]

I find this whole saga interesting.

Sometimes stars put there stamp on a team and don't care who's toes get stepped on. And its a good thing ultimately.

Other times they aren't able to pull off the same power play, either because they aren't respected for some reason or they aren't good enough.

I'd like to see Jimmy pull it off honestly. He's a good player and has a great work ethic. He has to get his leadership skills right. Rose has to take a back seat if that what it comes to.

That's simply what it boils down to. Jimmy can be a leader of this team, or even the leader. But the extremes you go to with leadership will only be tolerated if you have the hardware to back it up. You can't throw teammates and coaches under the bus just because you made the all-star team last season. There are many veterans on this team and some are more accomplished than Jimmy. Maybe it works on the younger players, but that's really only McDermottt, Snell, Mirotic and Portis.

I agree to a point but leaders aren't always the nice guys who say all the right things. I don't think throwing guys under the bus is right but its not a standard one way or the other.

Leaders lead.

Jimmy was underhanded in not talking with his teammates and his coach - the 2 sets of people he has problems with.

If he talked to them AND it didnt work, and then he goes to the media ---- then guess what, he has LOST the leadership mantle once and for all.

People will give him lip service and say " Yes, Jimmy thats a good idea"......but they wont forget what he did. Repeatedly.

[Rerisen]

It just seems strange that some are quick to dismiss the theory that Jimmy just doesn't know how to control his newfound "stardom." He even said it himself that this is the first time he's ever been a leader on a team. You're bound to run into hurdles when you're breaking new ground.

I think Jimmy's intentions are good, but he should either change his leadership style or fallback a little.

Actually I see most do see that theory in some sense, just that its not our biggest issue.

Pretty obvious Jimmy has become a much more cocky guy since his rise to stardom. But him not cheering on the bench enough for people's liking is pretty small time stuff. Reminds me of the old stuff about Ben Gordon not helping a young Rose with pointers on his game, while the great Kirk did.

Would it help the team? Sure, probably, but I don't see it as some big solution to most of our problems.

There are a lot of cocky stars in the NBA, who lead by example and/or driving their teammates, and aren't at the same time playing the role of 'best friend' and supporter to the lesser players on the team.

The thing right now is the team has no real good leadership. Not from the vets, not from the new coach. It is a listless bunch that drifts from game to game with whimsical effort and almost allowing circumstances to dictate their buy in. If luck goes their way they can randomly play as a team and look great. If a few things go bad, the other team gets hot, they can easily spin off each their own direction and the team just looks like undisciplined chaos.

In that sense, I think we should be cheering for Jimmy's usurping of leadership to succeed (not via the media obviously). Right now obviously its a work in progress, and maybe the team would prefer to just stay on the lazy track its on, without this cocky, short of real superstar, guy in Butler, trying to play an MJ, Kobe attitude on them. But if that is the case I would rate the team's attitude as the bigger issues than Jimmy's desire to lead them.

[musiqsoulchild]

The Lowe article wasn't overly negative. It mentioned some resentment. Which I can clearly see considering Noah has never made the money that Jimmy has and he was the main one quoted. Nor has he gotten the spotlight and is on his way out of the league.

But I really don't have time or the patience for a long drawn out debate with you. We will never convince either of us of the others point of view. We are both entrenched on opposite sides.

If this team makes the leap, it will be on the back of Jimmy and hard work.

I am sorry that you see it that way - I dont see this as having 2 opposite views.

I see it as some fans on our board being happy that someone with power (Jimmy in this case) unlike us poor saps - who can only write Millions of words but to no avail ----- is saying something publicly about how the coach is not doing a good job.

And the coach is a proxy to this segment of fans --- a proxy for GarPax. So, if this coach fails or is ridiculed --- then by proxy this FO has failed.

Which, is a juicy, succulent outcome for some of us.

For me personally - if the FO fails - more than anyone else failing including Rose etc - we'd have to go through SO MUCH CHANGE.

I'd rather have a successful FO than the hope for a great one. Because with the hope for a great FO comes OKC and Houston. "Great" FO execs like Sam Presti and Daryl Morey and Doc Rivers are EATING it now for several seasons.

Where did he say Hoiberg was doing a bad job or was not a good coach? He just wanted everyone to be pushed harder.

It's not about toppling the FO. Its not about their public humiliation. They're not some evil 3rd world regime. IIt's like in any business, you have to work on your weaknesses and develop them. You can't sit on your previous achievements (which aren't really that good to begin with) and continue down the same path.

GarPax clearly have to work on acquiring top tier talent, trades and relationships with their subordinates (coaches, assistants and players). I just want to hold them accountable for that and see it improve. My problem with them is that they have no entrenched themselves in a position that it won't happen. It's like some old family business owner that says I've been selling x since 1962 this way and then doesn't understand why Walmart wiped him out.

You're fundamental view is that you like a consistently good product but not great. I like the highs and will suffer through the lows for a great product. I'd rather have the dynasty Bulls and then the 8 years after than 10 years of this and hoping Bron isn't there for us at the end of our playoff runs every year.

I dont fault you for saying that ---- thats EXACTLY what a fan should say.

No good business will apply that model though.

The ones that do are those that are positioning themselves to be sold or to be leveraged. That is actually terrible business --- its so bad for the families of employees that work for a business.

A good business should provide NOT only a service/product that people will buy but also take care of its employees. We have consistently done that by maintaining constant success.

[coldfish]

I'm just curious, is there *anyone* who is saying that what Butler said was good form on his part?

Some people may think he was correct in his evaluation but that isn't the same as being correct in his method for delivering it.

Given that we all agree that Jimmy was wrong to go public like this, I'll ask someone like Musiq:
- Do you believe the FO planted KC's reports as retaliation?
- If so, do you believe that was the correct thing to do, given the situation?

[musiqsoulchild]

The Lowe article wasn't overly negative. It mentioned some resentment. Which I can clearly see considering Noah has never made the money that Jimmy has and he was the main one quoted. Nor has he gotten the spotlight and is on his way out of the league.

But I really don't have time or the patience for a long drawn out debate with you. We will never convince either of us of the others point of view. We are both entrenched on opposite sides.

If this team makes the leap, it will be on the back of Jimmy and hard work.

I am sorry that you see it that way - I dont see this as having 2 opposite views.

I see it as some fans on our board being happy that someone with power (Jimmy in this case) unlike us poor saps - who can only write Millions of words but to no avail ----- is saying something publicly about how the coach is not doing a good job.

And the coach is a proxy to this segment of fans --- a proxy for GarPax. So, if this coach fails or is ridiculed --- then by proxy this FO has failed.

Which, is a juicy, succulent outcome for some of us.

For me personally - if the FO fails - more than anyone else failing including Rose etc - we'd have to go through SO MUCH CHANGE.

I'd rather have a successful FO than the hope for a great one. Because with the hope for a great FO comes OKC and Houston. "Great" FO execs like Sam Presti and Daryl Morey and Doc Rivers are EATING it now for several seasons.

Where did he say Hoiberg was doing a bad job or was not a good coach? He just wanted everyone to be pushed harder.

It's not about toppling the FO. Its not about their public humiliation. They're not some evil 3rd world regime. IIt's like in any business, you have to work on your weaknesses and develop them. You can't sit on your previous achievements (which aren't really that good to begin with) and continue down the same path.

GarPax clearly have to work on acquiring top tier talent, trades and relationships with their subordinates (coaches, assistants and players). I just want to hold them accountable for that and see it improve. My problem with them is that they have no entrenched themselves in a position that it won't happen. It's like some old family business owner that says I've been selling x since 1962 this way and then doesn't understand why Walmart wiped him out.

You're fundamental view is that you like a consistently good product but not great. I like the highs and will suffer through the lows for a great product. I'd rather have the dynasty Bulls and then the 8 years after than 10 years of this and hoping Bron isn't there for us at the end of our playoff runs every year.

Saw your edit --- except in our case, there is no WALMART.

Heck we ourselves are like Costco or something --- we are 2nd in our industry ( the NBA). Maybe 3rd.

[Rerisen]

Jimmy basically ran into the public square and shouted the house is on fire.

He's wrong for shouting it there, as its not going to put it out, in fact it will just keep raging. He should have ran to the firehouse (the players and staff). Though sadly they already know it is too.

So mistake by Jimmy, but the biggest deal in it all is of course that... the house is on fire!

[wolffy]

That's simply what it boils down to. Jimmy can be a leader of this team, or even the leader. But the extremes you go to with leadership will only be tolerated if you have the hardware to back it up. You can't throw teammates and coaches under the bus just because you made the all-star team last season. There are many veterans on this team and some are more accomplished than Jimmy. Maybe it works on the younger players, but that's really only McDermottt, Snell, Mirotic and Portis.

I agree to a point but leaders aren't always the nice guys who say all the right things. I don't think throwing guys under the bus is right but its not a standard one way or the other.

Leaders lead.

Jimmy was underhanded in not talking with his teammates and his coach - the 2 sets of people he has problems with.

If he talked to them AND it didnt work, and then he goes to the media ---- then guess what, he has LOST the leadership mantle once and for all.

People will give him lip service and say " Yes, Jimmy thats a good idea"......but they wont forget what he did. Repeatedly.

But we don't really know all the stuff that has been said or done. And that goes for all parties here. We can like or dislike the way he attempting to lead but none of that matters. The final outcome is yet to be determined imo. If things work out in his favor then he has in fact led the team. If not then he has failed. The mere fact that people are mad at him doesn't matter.

Maybe he was rude, maybe he was a ****, and maybe he was right. Maybe someone needs to be fired and players traded. I think we can see the latter is true. He is at least a conduit of change at this point.

[musiqsoulchild]

It just seems strange that some are quick to dismiss the theory that Jimmy just doesn't know how to control his newfound "stardom." He even said it himself that this is the first time he's ever been a leader on a team. You're bound to run into hurdles when you're breaking new ground.

I think Jimmy's intentions are good, but he should either change his leadership style or fallback a little.

Actually I see most do see that theory in some sense, just that its not our biggest issue.

Pretty obvious Jimmy has become a much more cocky guy since his rise to stardom. But him not cheering on the bench enough for people's liking is pretty small time stuff. Reminds me of the old stuff about Ben Gordon not helping a young Rose with pointers on his game, while the great Kirk did.

Would it help the team? Sure, probably, but I don't see it as some big solution to most of our problems.

There are a lot of cocky stars in the NBA, who lead by example and/or driving their teammates, and aren't at the same time playing the role of 'best friend' and supporter to the lesser players on the team.

The thing right now is the team has no real good leadership. Not from the vets, not from the new coach. It is a listless bunch that drifts from game to game with whimsical effort and almost allowing circumstances to dictate their buy in. If luck goes their way they can randomly play as a team and look great. If a few things go bad, the other team gets hot, they can easily spin off each their own direction and the team just looks like undisciplined chaos.

In that sense, I think we should be cheering for Jimmy's usurping of leadership to succeed. Right now obviously its a work in progress, and maybe the team would prefer to just stay on the lazy track its on, without this cocky, short of real superstar, guy in Butler, trying to play an MJ, Kobe attitude on them. But if that is the case I would rate the team's attitude as the bigger issues than Jimmy's desire to lead them.

I agree with your assessment and I see some reasons for it:

1) Pau has no engagement with the team. He is 36. And he knows that we will trade him. Or that he will opt out next season to a different team. Why should he invest in a semi-rebuild?

2) Rose is a 20 million dollar player who I will not pay 20 dollars to see on court. He is a nuisance. Not engaged, not playing flat out on hustle and energy.

3) That leaves Noah + Taj + Jimmy + Kirk as the next vet core. Kirk has too small a role and is influential BUT non-consequential. Taj is a walk rather than talk type. Noah has been the leader for a LOOOONG time on this team --- and he may also be checking out due to age and the general malaise he sees around him.

4) The next tier is all youngsters and journeyman. No leadership there ---- but plenty of engagement. These guys know they have a FUTURE with the Bulls. So, they will play EXACTLY how Fred wants them to play. This is happening to a large extent.

So, essentially you have a big group of veterans who really are NOT engaged AND a big group of youngsters who are focussed on their NBA careers and the Bulls.

Jimmy is the ONLY one focussed on winning this season ---- the winning habit that is. And thats understandable. Except, we arent Philly or Knicks or Utah --- where the winning habit is suddenly going to leave us and bad habits will creep in and Fred will lose the entire team.

We have to stop looking at TODAY's team as TOMORROW's team. Most of the older guys are done. Or, the FO / Fred has moved on from them.

The key veterans to watch for are Taj + Kirk + Dunleavy + Noah ( when they return back from injury respectively). The key young players to look for are Doug, Niko ( he's a problem child) and Bobby.

Then you add in the 2 opposite basketball entities of Jimmy + Rose. Thats 9 players of TOMORROW'S roster --- with 15 Millionish in cap space to get in more vet leadership and players Hoiberg needs.

Jimmy is caught right now between the Veteran players and the Younger players. He is the ONLY young vet who cares ( Rose doesnt). On the flip side, Jimmy is also the FUTURE of the team --- so Fred and Gar will handle him with kid gloves. Thats the reason why Gar is giving Jimmy a long rope.

[DanTown8587]

A smear campaign implies that there is little to no truth to the perpetrators of the campaign.

That would be what Jimmy is doing to his teammates.

Not what KC's report is. Or Zach Lowe's.

The way it works is very simple: Trump says something about Hillary to the media. Then the media goes to Hillary for a comment about Trumps comment. And ultimately, Trump comes out looking like an idiot.

In today's media world, the aggressor cant just say whatever they want without repurcussion. There will be follow-up questions and those questions will be answered by the originally lampooned party.

One, I almost expect someone like Jimmy to say this as learns how to be a leader. He's never really been asked to do this in the NBA and he's going to learn that he can't just say what he says in the lockerroom to the media.

Gar or Fred or whoever in the organization who leaked what they did to KC is SIGNIFICANTLY worse. They did it without putting their name on it and they did it to trash a player (who already has less power). At the end of the day, Jimmy is below Fred in the hierarchy so when Fred is attacked, he has to maintain his authority and deal with it internally (much like Pax did by meeting with Jimmy off to the side).

I didn't think much of the organization's potential role in the leak to KC until I watched the game Monday and listened to them spend 48 minutes trying to not give Jimmy any credit in the game and when Neil freaking Funk is unable to find a way to give you a positive statement, you can clearly tell how petty and childish this organization is at times.

You could even argue that the Thibs thing now is a stain on the FO. How much of what happened with Thibs was normal coach/FO disagreement? How much was it the FO willing to fight any fight no matter the opponent and no matter the slight?

[musiqsoulchild]

Jimmy basically ran into the public square and shouted the house is on fire.

He's wrong for shouting it there, as its not going to put it out, in fact it will just keep raging. He should have ran to the firehouse (the players and staff). Though sadly they already know it is too.

So mistake by Jimmy, but the biggest deal in it all is of course that... the house is on fire!

Except, when the fire department came --- they spoke to the owners of the place.

The building was set on fire (parts of it) in order to quickly raze it and re-build ( this offseason).

The owners had a wrecking crew already in place --- but some malcontents came in and created a fire in the vacant building.

Thats actually much closer to the truth. There is very little of value in that house. Thats whay Jimmy is kind of like "Why isnt ANYONE else seeing what I am seeing?". Its the other way around --- its Jimmy who isnt seeing what everyone else is seeing.

This is a team in transition. There's TyVek sheeting across the entire first floor of the house. It'll be complete by August, 2016 and Jimmy can move back into his palatial master suite afterwards.

[musiqsoulchild]

A smear campaign implies that there is little to no truth to the perpetrators of the campaign.

That would be what Jimmy is doing to his teammates.

Not what KC's report is. Or Zach Lowe's.

The way it works is very simple: Trump says something about Hillary to the media. Then the media goes to Hillary for a comment about Trumps comment. And ultimately, Trump comes out looking like an idiot.

In today's media world, the aggressor cant just say whatever they want without repurcussion. There will be follow-up questions and those questions will be answered by the originally lampooned party.

One, I almost expect someone like Jimmy to say this as learns how to be a leader. He's never really been asked to do this in the NBA and he's going to learn that he can't just say what he says in the lockerroom to the media.

Gar or Fred or whoever in the organization who leaked what they did to KC is SIGNIFICANTLY worse. They did it without putting their name on it and they did it to trash a player (who already has less power). At the end of the day, Jimmy is below Fred in the hierarchy so when Fred is attacked, he has to maintain his authority and deal with it internally (much like Pax did by meeting with Jimmy off to the side).

I didn't think much of the organization's potential role in the leak to KC until I watched the game Monday and listened to them spend 48 minutes trying to not give Jimmy any credit in the game and when Neil freaking Funk is unable to find a way to give you a positive statement, you can clearly tell how petty and childish this organization is at times.

You could even argue that the Thibs thing now is a stain on the FO. How much of what happened with Thibs was normal coach/FO disagreement? How much was it the FO willing to fight any fight no matter the opponent and no matter the slight?

I'll take your assessment at face value. I didnt see the game and if I did, I would have caught something like that as well.

In general you are right - Gar is on the clock. He doesnt have the job security that many folks here think he has.