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12/26 Game Thread: Heat (17-11) vs Magic (17-12) 7PM

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Re: 12/26 Game Thread: Heat (17-11) vs Magic (17-12) 7PM 

Post#561 » by axl_c_cool » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:39 am

OrlandO wrote:
A routine review of the officiating in Saturday night's Miami Heat-Orlando Magic game determined that Magic center Nik Vucevic was incorrectly whistled for a foul as the Magic trailed 104-101 with 51.0 seconds to play.

Referee Kevin Scott called a foul on Vucevic for hitting Dwyane Wade's shooting hand after Wade followed through on an errant jumper.

Vucevic vigorously protested the call.

Wade made both of his subsequent free-throw attempts, giving the Heat a 106-101 lead.

In its description of that play, league officials noted, "Any 'high-five' contact after the release is considered incidental."




Frustrating but we lost the game before then, yeah down 1 with possession, but outside of Payton what were we producing? And our defence wasn't stopping Wade. Besides, we're better than to blame 1 call
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Re: 12/26 Game Thread: Heat (17-11) vs Magic (17-12) 7PM 

Post#562 » by MagicStarwipe » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:47 am

http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2015/12/L2M-MIA@ORL-12-26-15.pdf

Can someone explain the Whiteside contest on last Payton drive to me. Whiteside does not go straight up and down or straight backwards. He is jumping to the side and backwards. Is this legal?
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Re: 12/26 Game Thread: Heat (17-11) vs Magic (17-12) 7PM 

Post#563 » by Orlwillbeback » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:14 am

is there available data on how many incorrect calls there are on stars like wade and lebron?
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Re: 12/26 Game Thread: Heat (17-11) vs Magic (17-12) 7PM 

Post#564 » by pogiro » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:43 am

axl_c_cool wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
A routine review of the officiating in Saturday night's Miami Heat-Orlando Magic game determined that Magic center Nik Vucevic was incorrectly whistled for a foul as the Magic trailed 104-101 with 51.0 seconds to play.

Referee Kevin Scott called a foul on Vucevic for hitting Dwyane Wade's shooting hand after Wade followed through on an errant jumper.

Vucevic vigorously protested the call.

Wade made both of his subsequent free-throw attempts, giving the Heat a 106-101 lead.

In its description of that play, league officials noted, "Any 'high-five' contact after the release is considered incidental."






Frustrating but we lost the game before then, yeah down 1 with possession, but outside of Payton what were we producing? And our defence wasn't stopping Wade. Besides, we're better than to blame 1 call


It was a pretty damning call. I actually thought we were playing pretty excellent down the stretch leading up to that call. Our D was on point, they were just hitting very contested shots. While they were playing pretty crap on defense, and we were getting some easy buckets to keep up. We finally get Wade to miss a shot with another good defensive play, and the ref bails em out.

Needless to say, they let them come back from 15 down, and then build up the lead back to 9 and then let them cut that down pretty easily. So no, it's not all on that one call. But this young team was showing a ton of grit in my eyes in the closing minutes leading up to that call. I give them a lot of credit for that.
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Re: 12/26 Game Thread: Heat (17-11) vs Magic (17-12) 7PM 

Post#565 » by Bensational » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:25 am

OrlandO wrote:
Bensational wrote:
OrlandO wrote:Vuc was responsible for 36 pts through his 50% scoring and 6 assists. Also contributed with 10 boards, 3 steals and a block. Plus Whiteside probably had his worst rebounding game of the season, scored less than average and didn't assist his teammates despite playing a near season high in minutes. Some of ya'll are holding Vuc to superstar expectations if you want more than that.


I'd interested to know the points in the paint splits for each team. I'd imagine Whiteside impacted enough shots to make him close to matching Vuc.

I don't think it's unfair to expect franchise caliber talent from a guy who's being featured as our go to guy lately.

magic 40 points in the paint
heat 38 points in the paint

4th quarter:
We had a 7pt lead heading into the period.
Vuc and Payton did all they could by scoring 20 pts on 10/15 fg.
None of our other starters scored.
We did not make a single three.
Vuc was the only starter to get a rebound.
Miami scored just 6 pts in the paint.
Miami hit 5/7 threes.
Wade hit 4/5 fg from mid-range (no paint points).

Yet Vuc is somehow the immediate topic of discussion... again. Same story every game win or lose lately. :banghead:
Btw, over the past 5 games Vuc is averaging 22.8 pts on 57% fg, 9.4 reb, 3.2 ast, 1 stl, 1 blk, 1.2 tov. Nobody on our team is capable of doing this right now except him. He is doing his part, other guys need to step up more.


what were the FG%'s for points in paint for each team? (where do you get these numbers, btw? I can only find basic boxscore breakdowns).

why do people get so upset about comments about Vuc? now that the team seems to have found a real rhythm and players are settling into roles, Vuc has clearly defined himself as the best player and he's become our featured player. because of that, he's going to draw the lion's share of comments.

the FT thing doesn't bother me that much because I think that as long as Vuc were to be partnered with a legit star wing player who does get to the line, then Vuc is the perfect option 1b scoring partner regardless of the FTs. the FT comments are just people searching for another way for Vuc to transcend his efficiency, but IMO if his passing game keeps developing the way it has then it doesn't matter at all.

defensively, my comment about Whiteside wasn't a dig on Vuc, it was just an observation. Whiteside scares opposing players and disrupts offenses just with his presence, whereas Vuc doesn't. and as I said, that's fine when factoring in Vuc's offensive input, but he and the team will need someone who can have that Whiteside impact, and we'll need them to be the last man back, too, because they're not going to be able to run off PFs who generally hang by the 3pt line in time to help Payton/Dipo/Fournier/etc if a guy has beat them off the dribble.

i've said this a lot after a lot of games, but we are constantly getting burned because Payton, Oladipo and Harris all cheat off their man to help crowd the paint to help Vuc with defense, and that nearly always results in an open 3 for someone. Skiles needs to demand that these guys don't do that and either trust that Vuc can handle it as the last man back, or he needs to move Vuc to defending PFs so he can have someone back there that can handle it, so we don't keep getting stung by the exact same plays game after game.
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Re: 12/26 Game Thread: Heat (17-11) vs Magic (17-12) 7PM 

Post#566 » by rcklsscognition » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:32 am

MagicStarwipe wrote:http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2015/12/L2M-MIA@ORL-12-26-15.pdf

Can someone explain the Whiteside contest on last Payton drive to me. Whiteside does not go straight up and down or straight backwards. He is jumping to the side and backwards. Is this legal?


I will try, may not be right, but this is what I gathered.

One key issue. Verticality is a secondary defender call, not primary. So in this case Whiteside was the primary defender of Payton. If another player had come to help Whiteside and did this, it would be considered a verticality foul on that help defender.

They're saying he maintained legal guarding position because they jumped basically at the same time, that is legal, and he kept his chest in between Payton and the rim. He is allowed to move backwards, whether or not he does so because of the contact. The rule I believe is interpreted this way because each player has the right to go for the ball, and so long as the defender doesn't go directly into the front or side of the offensive player, it is considered legal.

I don't think Whiteside made any contact on the arms and I think the refs said a correct non-call because Payton was just as responsible for making the body contact.

Another interesting note, which Vuc gets called for occasionally, is that you have to be IN THE AIR to get a verticality call. He often is flat footed, not in the air, going vertical, and getting called for fouls. I see him complain about them every few games. He has to jump if he wants to avoid the foul.

Also. I do believe there was an incorrect call earlier in the game when Whiteside was the secondary defender on Payton, and he did not maintain verticality.
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Re: 12/26 Game Thread: Heat (17-11) vs Magic (17-12) 7PM 

Post#567 » by OrlandoDream » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:29 am

fklt wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:EP is the heart and soul of this team. That 4th quarter showed how he was the only Magic player who didn't fear the heat and just wanted to win. Everybody else was just standing around trembling in fear and hope Wade misses.

Yeah and its not just this game, I feel like I've seen this play out whenever we had a losing 4th quarter. He is the only player who keeps his head up high and fearlessly attacks in this situations.


It's a damn shame his jumper and free throws are so broke. I know it is only his second year and he will improve with time on both areas, but I fear how far we can get in playoffs with a PG that can't shoot in an already scoring/shooting pg league. I love everything he brings to the table, but not having that J and watching opposing pgs give him so much space is hard to watch.
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Re: 12/26 Game Thread: Heat (17-11) vs Magic (17-12) 7PM 

Post#568 » by MagicStarwipe » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:41 am

rcklsscognition wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2015/12/L2M-MIA@ORL-12-26-15.pdf

Can someone explain the Whiteside contest on last Payton drive to me. Whiteside does not go straight up and down or straight backwards. He is jumping to the side and backwards. Is this legal?


I will try, may not be right, but this is what I gathered.

One key issue. Verticality is a secondary defender call, not primary. So in this case Whiteside was the primary defender of Payton. If another player had come to help Whiteside and did this, it would be considered a verticality foul on that help defender.

They're saying he maintained legal guarding position because they jumped basically at the same time, that is legal, and he kept his chest in between Payton and the rim. He is allowed to move backwards, whether or not he does so because of the contact. The rule I believe is interpreted this way because each player has the right to go for the ball, and so long as the defender doesn't go directly into the front or side of the offensive player, it is considered legal.

I don't think Whiteside made any contact on the arms and I think the refs said a correct non-call because Payton was just as responsible for making the body contact.


You may be right, but I've seen that called a foul as often as I've seen it ruled a no call. There is just no such thing as ref consistency.

Bensational wrote:why do people get so upset about comments about Vuc? now that the team seems to have found a real rhythm and players are settling into roles, Vuc has clearly defined himself as the best player and he's become our featured player. because of that, he's going to draw the lion's share of comments.


Best player or best scorer? I'd agree if you said best scorer, but I don't think he's separated himself as our best player.
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Re: 12/26 Game Thread: Heat (17-11) vs Magic (17-12) 7PM 

Post#569 » by Optimus_Steel » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:27 pm

What a shocker, refs getting a Wade call wrong lol.
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Re: 12/26 Game Thread: Heat (17-11) vs Magic (17-12) 7PM 

Post#570 » by npiper17 » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:16 pm

Optimus_Steel wrote:What a shocker, refs getting a Wade call wrong lol.


It's probably a good job from the NBA's perspective that post-game ref reports weren't around during the 2006 Finals.

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