Signed By Indiana - The Jeremy Lamb Thread

Post #641 » by **yosemiteben** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:54 am

Lamb and PJ have completely different roles on this team, and I think both would really struggle if their roles were switched.

Joest2003 · Post #642 » by **Joest2003** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:54 pm

I think they should have Lamb working on his defense with MKG. If MKG could rub some of his defensive abilities on lamb and lamb could rub some of his offensive abilities on MKG in the process that would be CLUTCH.

bws94 · Post #643 » by **bws94** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:55 pm

Braggins wrote:Is it possible that his defensive issues could be somewhat masked by placing him in the starting lineup? I know that sounds a bit counter intuitive, but since we are no longer starting Al we have a nice defensive core with Kemba, Batum, Marv, and Cody, but our offense seems to be struggling. Starting Lamb would take some of the offensive pressure of Batum, which would allow him to focus more on defense. Batum could check the best offensive wing and not have to worry about having the offense run through him as much.

Placing Lamb in the starting lineup would also force him to play off the ball more and score more on spot ups and catch and shoot situations after coming off a screen. It could kind of save him from himself by preventing him from going one on one and handling the ball too much since Kemba and Batum handle the ball so much in the first unit. I think this could have a positive effect on his efficiency, which has been seeing a decline in the last month.

I'm pretty confident that if Lamb was getting the looks that PJ is getting with the starting unit that he would be much more efficient and our offense would be a lot harder to defend. I'm not sure that we would even see that much of a drop off on defense with Batum taking on the role of our go to wing defender. I feel like if we can hide Al on defense then we should easily be able to hide Lamb.

I know a lot of people are getting hard ons for PJ because for the first time in his career he strung together a handful of games where he wasn't one of the most inefficient players in the league, but lets face it, the dude is terrible and not an NBA rotation player. Even after his "good" month he is shooting 34% from the field and 31% from deep with a 7.0 PER.

I don't find him that effective in the starting unit most of the time. He seems to play best off of Lin as well. And since he is the first option off the important bench, I'd keep him where he is. The only bench guy I think that should go to the starters is Frank, not Lamb or Lin. Lin can start when Kemba, Batum or PJ can't go. Otherwise, Frank is the best candidate to me. Clifford also doesn't want Batum guarding the best player at the beginning of games and 3rd quarters.

Braggins · Post #644 » by **Braggins** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:46 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Lamb and PJ have completely different roles on this team, and I think both would really struggle if their roles were switched.

I don't really want them to actually switch roles. If we started Lamb we could give more of PJ's role to Batum and let Lamb take on some of Batum's offensive role so he isn't being asked to do too much.

bws94 · Post #645 » by **bws94** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:49 pm

Braggins wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Lamb and PJ have completely different roles on this team, and I think both would really struggle if their roles were switched.

I don't really want them to actually switch roles. If we started Lamb we could give more of PJ's role to Batum and let Lamb take on some of Batum's offensive role so he isn't being asked to do too much.

Lamb isn't a great facilitator, that's a lot of Batum's role. He's not an effective defender, that's another big part of his role. The only part left is scoring which Lamb can do. He can shoot jumpers and also cut to the basket at times and drive and sometimes dish. But the big part remains, Cliff doesn't want Batum defensively on the best player. That's what PJ does. And PJ also eats up some fouls that would go to Batum or other offensively stronger player.

Braggins · Post #646 » by **Braggins** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 9:34 pm

bws94 wrote:
Braggins wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:Lamb and PJ have completely different roles on this team, and I think both would really struggle if their roles were switched.

I don't really want them to actually switch roles. If we started Lamb we could give more of PJ's role to Batum and let Lamb take on some of Batum's offensive role so he isn't being asked to do too much.

Lamb isn't a great facilitator, that's a lot of Batum's role. He's not an effective defender, that's another big part of his role. The only part left is scoring which Lamb can do. He can shoot jumpers and also cut to the basket at times and drive and sometimes dish. But the big part remains, Cliff doesn't want Batum defensively on the best player. That's what PJ does. And PJ also eats up some fouls that would go to Batum or other offensively stronger player.

If we cant ask Batum to guard other top wings or be a #1 option then we better not pay him anywhere near max money.

bws94 · Post #647 » by **bws94** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:38 pm

Braggins wrote:
bws94 wrote:
Braggins wrote:I don't really want them to actually switch roles. If we started Lamb we could give more of PJ's role to Batum and let Lamb take on some of Batum's offensive role so he isn't being asked to do too much.

Lamb isn't a great facilitator, that's a lot of Batum's role. He's not an effective defender, that's another big part of his role. The only part left is scoring which Lamb can do. He can shoot jumpers and also cut to the basket at times and drive and sometimes dish. But the big part remains, Cliff doesn't want Batum defensively on the best player. That's what PJ does. And PJ also eats up some fouls that would go to Batum or other offensively stronger player.

If we cant ask Batum to guard other top wings or be a #1 option then we better not pay him anywhere near nax money.

Fair point. Now if you can only convince Cliff...

phillycheese · Post #648 » by **phillycheese** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:48 am

At least PJ tries to defend and lay his body on people. He may look clumsy doing it, but the effort is there. Lamb shows no inclination to get physical, and actually shies away from contact. And he has a bad habit of losing his man on defense even when not screened off.

DY_nasty · Post #649 » by **DY_nasty** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:51 am

He's an Al Jefferson-tier defender right now.

Braggins · Post #650 » by **Braggins** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:48 am

I'd say Al is still a bigger liability simply due to being a center, but Lamb really has been that bad.

TinmanZBoy · Post #651 » by **TinmanZBoy** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:57 pm

lamb's problem on defensive end is his court awareness, the picks, the cutting, how to position himself etc... he actually has good speed and length on close-outs... and his length alone makes him a good rebounder....
as much as people or clifford marvel PJ's strength on defending elite scorers, PJ is pretty lousy on a lot of areas in defensive end...He is not a better defender than Lamb, numbers don't lie
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1287010&start=440#start_here

DY_nasty · Post #652 » by **DY_nasty** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:28 pm

TinmanZBoy wrote:lamb's problem on defensive end is his court awareness, the picks, the cutting, how to position himself etc... he actually has good speed and length on close-outs... and his length alone makes him a good rebounder....
as much as people or clifford marvel PJ's strength on defending elite scorers, PJ is pretty lousy on a lot of areas in defensive end...He is not a better defender than Lamb, numbers don't lie
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1287010&start=440#start_here

This is when people ask if you watch games.

PJ takes shots from the opposing team's best wing player usually. Is he gonna shut down Wade? Melo? No. He's gonna make them work though before he gets figured out.

Meanwhile Lamb gets beaten off the dribble by Courtney Lee...

TinmanZBoy · Post #653 » by **TinmanZBoy** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:55 pm

DY_nasty wrote:
TinmanZBoy wrote:lamb's problem on defensive end is his court awareness, the picks, the cutting, how to position himself etc... he actually has good speed and length on close-outs... and his length alone makes him a good rebounder....
as much as people or clifford marvel PJ's strength on defending elite scorers, PJ is pretty lousy on a lot of areas in defensive end...He is not a better defender than Lamb, numbers don't lie
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1287010&start=440#start_here

This is when people ask if you watch games.

PJ takes shots from the opposing team's best wing player usually. Is he gonna shut down Wade? Melo? No. He's gonna make them work though before he gets figured out.

Meanwhile Lamb gets beaten off the dribble by Courtney Lee...

You have to factor in the frequency of different type of defensive possessions that each player/team faces... 50+% of Hornets' defensive positions are close-outs on spot-up shooters, Lamb is 90+ percentile in defending those situations, what's PJ's percentile.... PJ might body up on some elite wings a few times which gave the false impression, and that's the only area he did well (90+), but that only account for 9.2% of his defensive possessions... For example, PJ was subbed out after he played 5 minutes in the first quarter against the Celtics lately, it is not because he chucked three 3 pointers, it was because he missed almost every rotation, did not box out the celtics rebounder to let Celtics have a easy second chance...

Liver_Pooty · Post #654 » by **Liver_Pooty** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:56 pm

No need to look at numbers. Hairston is by far a better defender than Lamb.

DY_nasty · Post #655 » by **DY_nasty** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:48 pm

TinmanZBoy wrote:
DY_nasty wrote:
TinmanZBoy wrote:lamb's problem on defensive end is his court awareness, the picks, the cutting, how to position himself etc... he actually has good speed and length on close-outs... and his length alone makes him a good rebounder....
as much as people or clifford marvel PJ's strength on defending elite scorers, PJ is pretty lousy on a lot of areas in defensive end...He is not a better defender than Lamb, numbers don't lie
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1287010&start=440#start_here

This is when people ask if you watch games.

PJ takes shots from the opposing team's best wing player usually. Is he gonna shut down Wade? Melo? No. He's gonna make them work though before he gets figured out.

Meanwhile Lamb gets beaten off the dribble by Courtney Lee...

You have to factor in the frequency of different type of defensive possessions that each player/team faces... 50+% of Hornets' defensive positions are close-outs on spot-up shooters, Lamb is 90+ percentile in defending those situations, what's PJ's percentile.... PJ might body up on some elite wings a few times which gave the false impression, and that's the only area he did well (90+), but that only account for 9.2% of his defensive possessions... For example, PJ was subbed out after he played 5 minutes in the first quarter against the Celtics lately, it is not because he chucked three 3 pointers, it was because he missed almost every rotation, did not box out the celtics rebounder to let Celtics have a easy second chance...

Dude what?

Cliff's been on record saying that guarding the opposing team's best wing is literally PJ's first and primary role on the team.

If you have to squint at Lamb's numbers to find ways that he could possibly be a decent defender, then you're ignoring the obvious on-court product. He's terrible defending anyone off-ball, plain bad at on-ball defense, and he's bipolar about when and how he jumps passing lanes.

Boston's offense is one of the most unique in the league too. Kinda odd bringing them up as the point of comparison.

bws94 · Post #656 » by **bws94** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:21 am

0 pts last game, 2 pts this game. Need more production.

phillycheese · Post #657 » by **phillycheese** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:31 am

All that length and athleticism means diddly squat when he puts forth no effort and desire on the defensive side. After watching Lamb loaf around screens, and fail to be in position even after the big man comes over to hedge his ball handler, no way is Lamb a better defender than PJ. PJ may get lost off a screen sometimes, but he is always behind or beside the ball handler bothering his shot. If the ball handler picks up his dribble then PJ re-establishes defensive position. Don't even get me going on denying the ball to be passed to his man which Lamb is very poor at. The only saving grace is that he is a perimeter defender so not the last line of defense. With Lamb and Al on the floor for the second unit is it any wonder Bench Force 1 has expired?

gafun · Post #658 » by **gafun** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:18 am

Lamb needs to get a lot workout in next summer. Lin's defense has improved a lot this season. His physical strength must be on of the main reasons. Put up 20 lbs muscle, Lamb could be better on offensive and defense.

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phillycheese · Post #659 » by **phillycheese** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:26 am

Lamb and Hairston are both 23. Hairston has an inch in height and about 45 lbs on Lamb. Agree that Lamb need to bulk up a bit more.

DY_nasty · Post #660 » by **DY_nasty** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:20 pm

gafun wrote:Lamb needs to get a lot workout in next summer. Lin's defense has improved a lot this season. His physical strength must be on of the main reasons. Put up 20 lbs muscle, Lamb could be better on offensive and defense.

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There is no way Lin put on 20lbs of muscle :lol: