Anyone else think Hornacek is getting jobbed a little?

[AtheJ415]

I mean, he just does weird stuff this year, like subbing in PJ Tucker in a scenario where we have the ball and must score in order to at least tie, while sitting Warren and Booker, who are indisputably better scoring threats.

Or going with all offense or all defense lineups for periods of games which result in predictable scoring and defensive droughts. Or putting in 3 guys who can't shoot which kills spacing, forcing our guys to play 2 on 5 on offense. It's just been a lot of nonsense. Put the player reputations of guys like Markieff aside, and Hornacek's still been nonsensically awful this season.

[TeamTragic]

Those of you hating on McD. Do you remember the SUNS team with Scola/etc? Yeah. No thank you. The current team is going through identity/leader issues but the assets and picks are collectively a thousand percent better.

Booker/Warren and Len to an extent are much better compared to the young talent we had before which was.....literally **** no one.

[Revived]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/681716850959335424[/tweet]

Sums up Hornacek in a nut shell

[TeamTragic]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/paulcoro/status/681716850959335424[/tweet]

Sums up Hornacek in a nut shell

Hornacek needs to stop talking

[Damkac]

McD has a tough task. He know he must rebuild the team with young but owner wants playoffs. So he must blend those two goals.
He made some mistakes but in his situation I think he generally made a good job.

[chrbal]

I feel like Jeff will eventually be a good head coach, but this is "learning experience" gig.

[Luke2334]

As has been reported all over, Hornacek is very much in the hot seat. Does this strike anyone else as the GM scapegoating the coach for a series of questionable personnel moves.

(1) Signing, and then just giving away IT, because you already have Dragic & Bledsoe.
(2) Trading that Lakers pick for Brandon Knight for the privilege of paying Knight a whole bunch of money.
(3) Waiting until Dragic's agent publicly said he's not re-signing before trading Dragic.
(4) Signing the Morris brothers to deals in which Kieff took a discount and then trading his brother.
(5) Holding onto Kieff long after he made it clear he wanted out.
(6) Paying an older version of Tyson Chandler a whole bunch of money to come play for an uptempo team.

I mean if I were Horancek, my exit interview would probably involve security escorting me out of the building. The GM has just thrown an anchor around the head coach and blamed him for sinking.

Can the HC fire the GM ? Better yet, and owner ?

Yeah, it's been a long slow train wreck over there.

Tyson Chandler to that long of a contract when you drafted Len ?
What is Markieff Morris still doing there ?

Time to TANK. One #5 pick does not a rebuild make.
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-draft-history/?eyear=2015&syear=1957&team=Suns

Clean up on isle 5

[Nitroglycerin]

Did Hornacek requested for the 3 Point Guard roster or the front office shoved it to him?

[jason bourne]

Sounds like you're just scapegoating the GM for this season. It's not the way to judge a GM. GM Ryan McDonough is a good GM. Before McD, didn't you have now Warriors coach Steve Kerr?

Then the Suns are still rebuilding are they not? Hornacek is getting another chance after his review. That's on the GM. If he was going to blame Hornacek, then he would've just fired him. What it sounds like to me is there was a thorough investigation and they fired two assistant coaches.

The Suns problem isn't pace (3rd in pace), but their offense is slow. They are bottom third in offensive efficiency. They're still not a good passing team. Their defensive efficiency is bottom third, too.

But to address your issues.

1. Hornacek wasn't playing IT3 that much. I don't see how PHX was going to keep IT3 cause they would've had to give the big bucks to Dragic or as it turned out Brandon Knight. Dragic really screwed you guys, so I can't blame the coach nor the GM Ryan McDonough. PHX was lucky to get Brandon Knight in that situation. PHX got a first-round 2016 pick and Marcus Thornton whom Hornacek didn't play that much.
2. Ditto.
3. It looked like Dragic was being selfish. He was going to get paid the big bucks from PHX wasn't he? If I was a Suns' fan, I would hate Dragic.
4. You left out the Morris brothers were arrested for felony aggravated assault. Marcus Morris was traded so McDonough could go after LaMarcus Aldridge. Aldridge seriously considered the Suns. It was between your team and the Spurs.
5. Kieff was selfish to dictate what the GM should do. He should have just talked with the GM instead of making it public and being frustrated.
6. Chandler was to bring some veteran leadership and defense to the team in my opinion.

McD has mostly been a good GM. He hasn't built the team with passers though, so guys resort mostly to tendencies when plays break down.

IT played about 26 minutes, same as he played for Boston last year, though he does play more this year, but they also don't have two starting quality PGs playing with him.

Kerr was GM until 2010. After that Sarver was for a bit and replaced Amare with Turkoglu, Childress and Warrick, and then brought in Lance Blanks who went after Beasley and drafted Kendall Marshall at 13. McD came into a pretty bad situation as did Hornacek, who coached a team of Dragic, a first ever starter in Bledsoe out for half the year, so sub in Gerald Green for half the year, PJ Tucker, Channing Frye and Miles Plumlee to 48 wins, and since then the roster has turned over every six months, making Dragic and IT disgruntled, then after the deadline last year and trades, Knight gets injured and out for season along with entire frontcourt.

This year another new team with a bunch of new players. Underachieved lately though, and coaching has made it's mistakes, but roster has had zero continuity since he has been there which would make it tough for any coach.

IIRC, McD was going to have Dragic, Bledsoe, LMA/MkMorris, Tyson/Len and PJ if things worked out. That's not too shabby of a passing team. Then I hate Dragic. The trade deadline is still coming, so a trade should be made for Morris. Rumors are Terrence Jones and Corey Brewer for Morris and Goodwin after 1/15, but Suns don't want to give up Goodwin. There's probably more to the deal for HOU as they want to move Ty Lawson.

[bwgood77]

Sounds like you're just scapegoating the GM for this season. It's not the way to judge a GM. GM Ryan McDonough is a good GM. Before McD, didn't you have now Warriors coach Steve Kerr?

Then the Suns are still rebuilding are they not? Hornacek is getting another chance after his review. That's on the GM. If he was going to blame Hornacek, then he would've just fired him. What it sounds like to me is there was a thorough investigation and they fired two assistant coaches.

The Suns problem isn't pace (3rd in pace), but their offense is slow. They are bottom third in offensive efficiency. They're still not a good passing team. Their defensive efficiency is bottom third, too.

But to address your issues.

1. Hornacek wasn't playing IT3 that much. I don't see how PHX was going to keep IT3 cause they would've had to give the big bucks to Dragic or as it turned out Brandon Knight. Dragic really screwed you guys, so I can't blame the coach nor the GM Ryan McDonough. PHX was lucky to get Brandon Knight in that situation. PHX got a first-round 2016 pick and Marcus Thornton whom Hornacek didn't play that much.
2. Ditto.
3. It looked like Dragic was being selfish. He was going to get paid the big bucks from PHX wasn't he? If I was a Suns' fan, I would hate Dragic.
4. You left out the Morris brothers were arrested for felony aggravated assault. Marcus Morris was traded so McDonough could go after LaMarcus Aldridge. Aldridge seriously considered the Suns. It was between your team and the Spurs.
5. Kieff was selfish to dictate what the GM should do. He should have just talked with the GM instead of making it public and being frustrated.
6. Chandler was to bring some veteran leadership and defense to the team in my opinion.

McD has mostly been a good GM. He hasn't built the team with passers though, so guys resort mostly to tendencies when plays break down.

IT played about 26 minutes, same as he played for Boston last year, though he does play more this year, but they also don't have two starting quality PGs playing with him.

Kerr was GM until 2010. After that Sarver was for a bit and replaced Amare with Turkoglu, Childress and Warrick, and then brought in Lance Blanks who went after Beasley and drafted Kendall Marshall at 13. McD came into a pretty bad situation as did Hornacek, who coached a team of Dragic, a first ever starter in Bledsoe out for half the year, so sub in Gerald Green for half the year, PJ Tucker, Channing Frye and Miles Plumlee to 48 wins, and since then the roster has turned over every six months, making Dragic and IT disgruntled, then after the deadline last year and trades, Knight gets injured and out for season along with entire frontcourt.

This year another new team with a bunch of new players. Underachieved lately though, and coaching has made it's mistakes, but roster has had zero continuity since he has been there which would make it tough for any coach.

IIRC, McD was going to have Dragic, Bledsoe, LMA/MkMorris, Tyson/Len and PJ if things worked out. That's not too shabby of a passing team. Then I hate Dragic. The trade deadline is still coming, so a trade should be made for Morris. Rumors are Terrence Jones and Corey Brewer for Morris and Goodwin after 1/15, but Suns don't want to give up Goodwin. There's probably more to the deal for HOU as they want to move Ty Lawson.

I'm not so sure the Suns don't want to give up Goodwin. Booker is far better, Goodwin rarely plays, and we have Bogdanovic coming over soon.

We hate to get Brewer though. If we trade Tucker he can be a backup 3 unless we decide to waive and stretch him, but that is probably only necessary if we need extra cap space to sign someone. But if we trade PJ and start TJ, Corey could be an ok backup...if Bledsoe was healthy, Booker could play the 3 as a backup when needed.

[JDizzel3000]

so what makes this team look to be in any better shape than Philadelphia again?

Not much, but they started in same place a couple summers ago, and Suns have shown to progress faster.

define "progress" because as i see it this team looks to be regressing exponentially into the depths of ineptitude ....

no playoffs since 09?
players uprising
constantly injured star
coaching turmoil
6 straight appearances in the lottery



..... why are there no cries for intervention for a franchise clearly sputtering in mediocrity

Sixers have gotten higher picks, but will Embiid end up better than Warren? Not sure, but I'd probably take Warren for more of a sure thing. Okafor surely has higher upside than Booker, but Booker is a stud and has fewer weaknesses. Both have stockpiled picks. Suns have better guards already, though not really great ones.

30 games into his career averaging 15mpg you are straight faced calling Devin Booker a "stud"?

Suns have better guards..... what does that even mean when one guard cant stay on the court and is now down with another debilitating knee injury??

If one of the two teams gets Simmons or Ingram (or maybe Bender) that team will appear to be in better shape, and Philly's odds are better, but for current rosters, I think I'd take Phoenix's. Philly in better cap situation but I am not sure they will lure stars since everyone will have cap space...Suns used it early before contracts really rise.

I dont think cap space will be relevant for either team as no game changing FA is signing up to play with these respective squads ... at best these teams will use their money on the Tyson Chandler types of the world



its just interesting looking at what has gone on in phx over the past 5-6 years or so and see that they have gone no further than one of the so called "worst run franchises in league history" as some would want you to believe

[NiqtheAntiq]

Suns had no chance in the West this year anyway. Even if they made the playoffs they would get a 4-1 series out of a team like Dallas or LA

They need to create some kind of big three and let them gel while the Spurs and Warriors are still contending. Its not really a big deal they are doing bad and losing Bledsoe and being exposed might help management figure out what is fundamentally wrong with this team. Also there was no way LMA was going to be in a Suns jersey as they were a worse treadmill than Portland. I have no idea who thought that would ACTUALLY happen.

Hornacek does good with taking limited talent and making a presentable team like the 48 win team a few years back but he aint gonna take you to 67 wins. Alof of teams slept on the Suns but their weaknesses are exposed and they don't have a Curry or Thompson to mask those. Their supposed Draymond Green like enforcer/spacer in Morris has given up on this team's philosophy.

Warren,Len,Booker are still young and could help via trade net the third link to make this team into a contender next year. Hornacek needs to go this offseason not because he is a bad coach( maybe too old school) but because the Suns need a true figurehead/presence/winner who can lead them into the 3 ball era. Ray Allen perhaps? Hornacek was always the third wheel on Jazz teams who never could win the championship against Jordan and Hornacek never stepped up in either Finals series. Players know that in the back of their mind. Ray Allen has been a star/clutch/champion/celebrity. Hornacek has not.

[bwgood77]

Did Hornacek requested for the 3 Point Guard roster or the front office shoved it to him?

The front office did. They traded for Bledsoe and kept Dragic, and then signed IT after a botched FA thing. Some think it was Bledsoe insurance (signing IT) because he was holding out, but he was restricted so it would never come to that.

Sarver wants to win so bad, McD may have traded that Lakers pick for Knight so he could help the team win now, because Sarver is so impatient both Hornacek and McD will be gone without the playoffs in the next two years (this year being the first year...and that's not gonna happen).

Hornacek likely goes sooner but he has had an ever changing roster which changes every few months, at every off season and trade deadline, or Bledsoe is out half the season in two of his three seasons, Markieff or Dragic are pissed at the team and lose interest, not because of the coach, but because of the FO.....Hornacek has gotten a raw deal. He has to mess with rotations so much because the team has no continuity as to who is on the roster.

It mostly comes to Sarver though. If you are supposed to rebuild, let things happen, and don't demand playoffs..it's only working against you.

[Bertrob]

I think he'll definitely get hired after he gets fired so I don't think so. No way a team doesn't take a chance on him

[bwgood77]

30 games into his career averaging 15mpg you are straight faced calling Devin Booker a "stud"?

Well yes, yes I am.

[tbdog]

The suns over achieved over the last two seasons. Dragic is a damn good player for that franchise and was on a good contract. Knight has done a really good job for them, so you cant really complain. But Tucker and Morris are just trouble, and I heard Goodwin is also a trouble maker. This team reminds me for the Jailblazzers. They had talent but too many trouble makers. The front office really needs to cut their loses and clean house. Warren looks like a really good player. And Len looks like he will be solid. They have Chandler to mentor Len. Knight and Bledsloe look like a good duo. Booker looks like has he promise too. Get rid of those three trouble makers and fill in with some vets. And look to draft a upcoming stretch 4. You don't have hit the reset button, but cut your waste.

[JDizzel3000]

30 games into his career averaging 15mpg you are straight faced calling Devin Booker a "stud"?

Well yes, yes I am.

Gotta find something to put your faith in I suppose

[bwgood77]

30 games into his career averaging 15mpg you are straight faced calling Devin Booker a "stud"?

Well yes, yes I am.

Gotta find something to put your faith in I suppose

You watched him much? Plus I love seeing things like this..

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SynergySST/status/676449211706163200[/tweet]

[Blame Rasho]

Yeah I wouldn't put much stock in a stats where you are comparing him to KAT who has around 3X the possessions per game, while being the primary focus of the defense unlike Booker. The same stat says that Boban(who is beyond awesome) would be ranked number 1. Unless you want to think so much of Willie Cauley-Stein compared to KAT.

There is a saying by a smart guy... "there are lies, damn lies and statistics."

It could be applied here.

[Ballerhogger]

Did he want the twins to be moved? If so than nope