State of the Union. Team Canada Basketball. (FIBA Americas Aug.31-Sep.15)

[mojo13]

Phil Scrubb is about to get loaned from Greek League and Eurocup team AEK Athens. They supposedly talked with teams from Turkey, Germany, and Spain to take him for the rest of this year and next year on loan.

He basically never got any playing time at all so far in AEK really in Greek League or Eurocup (league below Euroleague level). AEK changed their coach, and just after a few games, the new coach already decided to get rid of him.

I'm not sure what the deal is, he looked like a solid player to me whenever I saw him play, but that was in limited minutes. But both of the coaches at AEK would not put him on the floor. He might get loaned to a team in Spanish League that is a lot smaller than AEK and a lot less talented, so he could get more playing time. AEK is a big budget team and has a really deep roster, and they want to compete for a championship right now in Greek League, so maybe that's why he can't get playing time. So going to a small team in the Spanish League that does not have so much depth and good veteran players might help him develop more.

Very interesting on Scrubb...thanks for that. Stuff like that I am not seeing elsewhere.

Any other updates on the Euro guys? I have only been tracking Pangos, Heslip, Birch and Heslip. Anyone elseworth discussing (with an eye to the SMNT)?

Khem Birch seems to be starting for Usak Sportif in the Turkish Basketball Super League and playing fairly well. I dont have a great read on the quality of that league or team. Usak is 7-5 and played in the Euro Challenge last year (below both Euroleague and then EuroCup in level)

Olivier Hanlan seems to be the only Canuck on a Euroleague team with Žalgiris Kaunas and also seems to be playing fairly well. A key reserve guard getting 23 minutes a game which is Top 4 on the team (started 2 games) and is 2nd on the team in scoring 9.3ppg .

Brady Heslip is gunning away for Pallacanestro Cantù in the Italian A league, also a FIBA Europe Cup team. Brady is starting, leading the team in minutes at 33 mins per game (high for FIBA ball). Leading the team in scoring at 19 ppg, attempting 3s at about 3x the rate as 2pt attempts and hitting about 40% of his threes. Not bad...

Andy Rautin's is worth mentioning too. He is starting for Royal Halı Gaziantep also in the Turkish League and a FIBA Europe Cup team. He is 2nd on the team in scoring at about 14ppg. Similar profile to Heslip as a 3pt specialist, and despite world class shooting probably just can't defend two guards in the NBA.

I dont know if there are other guys playing on EuroLeague or EuroCup or FIBA Europe Cup teams and excelling...maybe others know....



EDIT: Can someone help me understand the difference between FIBA Europe Cup teams and EuroCup teams?
I get that EuroLeague is the top level with the deepest pocket teams and EuroCup is tied to EuroLeague as the teams eliminated in the First Round of the EuroLeague drop into the EuroCup to play with the top teams from the EuroCup First Round. But where does the FIBA Europe Cup come into all of this and what is its level? I think this is its inaugural year and the attempt by FIBA to undermine the Euroleague/EuroCup? Is that true? Is the NBA somehow involved in this? I heard they were eyeing expansion into Europe. It also makes me think we'd want Canadians on the FIBA Europe Cup teams as I assume they would be more apt to be released to play for Canada during the new qualification system. Thoughts?

[UcanUwill]

Very interesting on Scrubb...thanks for that. Stuff like that I am not seeing elsewhere.

Any other updates on the Euro guys? I have only been tracking Pangos, Heslip, Birch and Heslip. Anyone elseworth discussing (with an eye to the SMNT)?

Khem Birch seems to be starting for Usak Sportif in the Turkish Basketball Super League and playing fairly well. I dont have a great read on the quality of that league or team. Usak is 7-5 and played in the Euro Challenge last year (below both Euroleague and then EuroCup in level)

Olivier Hanlan seems to be the only Canuck on a Euroleague team with Žalgiris Kaunas and also seems to be playing fairly well. A key reserve guard getting 23 minutes a game which is Top 4 on the team (started 2 games) and is 2nd on the team in scoring 9.3ppg .

Brady Heslip is gunning away for Pallacanestro Cantù in the Italian A league, also a FIBA Europe Cup team. Brady is starting, leading the team in minutes at 33 mins per game (high for FIBA ball). Leading the team in scoring at 19 ppg, attempting 3s at about 3x the rate as 2pt attempts and hitting about 40% of his threes. Not bad...

Andy Rautin's is worth mentioning too. He is starting for Royal Halı Gaziantep also in the Turkish League and a FIBA Europe Cup team. He is 2nd on the team in scoring at about 14ppg. Similar profile to Heslip as a 3pt specialist, and despite world class shooting probably just can't defend two guards in the NBA.

I dont know if there are other guys playing on EuroLeague or EuroCup or FIBA Europe Cup teams and excelling...maybe others know....



EDIT: Can someone help me understand the difference between FIBA Europe Cup teams and EuroCup teams?
I get that EuroLeague is the top level with the deepest pocket teams and EuroCup is tied to EuroLeague as the teams eliminated in the First Round of the EuroLeague drop into the EuroCup to play with the top teams from the EuroCup First Round. But where does the FIBA Europe Cup come into all of this and what is its level? I think this is its inaugural year and the attempt by FIBA to undermine the Euroleague/EuroCup? Is that true? Is the NBA somehow involved in this? I heard they were eyeing expansion into Europe. It also makes me think we'd want Canadians on the FIBA Europe Cup teams as I assume they would be more apt to be released to play for Canada during the new qualification system. Thoughts?

I don't really follow FIBA Europe Cup, but it's way worse than Eurocup and Euroleague. Eurocup is a tier down from Euroleague, but it always has few decent teams that could play in the Euroleague, and just on avereage, Eurocup teams are relatively decent, most of them are contenders in their own domestic leagues.
On the other hand, FIBA Europe Cup is just the bottom of the barrel international tournament. It's just bad, its a tournament for teams that have no chance ever qualifying for Euroleague.

Zalgiris with Hanlan plays their first Euroleague top 16 game today.

[Mirotic12]

As for Canadian players in Europe, I would say best one right now is Pangos. I'm not sure how he would do in a bigger club though. He's really small. Heslip has nice stats, but I just don't see him being a guy that would do that good in a Euroleague team. Guys like the Diener cousins played at similar level league and team before, and they destroyed the Italian League. But even in a slightly better club they struggled some.

I think Heslip is what he is. Tremendous 3 point shooter that you have to space the floor as an 11 or 12 man. I don't think he is ever going to be a Jaycee Carroll level player in Europe, and probably not even at the level of someone like Martynas Gecevicius. But you could still really use him in any team as a designated shooter as an 11 or 12 man on the national team.

I have not paid much attention to Hanlan, but I can get a better look at him in Top 16. He's a good player, but I doubt about his place in the national team when there is a player like Murray available.

I have not seen Rautins play much, but I doubt that he's a top 500 player in Europe, based on what I have seen of him.

FIBA Europe Cup.....it's just a needless nonsense really. I heard they even invited some second division teams from Spain and Greece to it, and they declined. I'm not sure if that is true or not, since it has a different format than the EuroChallenge that it replaced. But definitely it is true that second division teams from Spain, Italy, and Greece used to get invited and declined places in EuroChallenge. Europe Cup is basically just the EuroChallenge re-named and re-branded. They have changed the Eurocup (used to be ULEB Cup) and EuroChallenge (now Europe Cup) so many times I have lost count. They always are trying to change the names and formats of those leagues. But basically, Europe Cup is pretty much just the same league as EuroChallenge, under a new name, and claiming it's a "new league", even though it really isn't.

[Patman]

FIBA Europe Cup.....it's just a needless nonsense really. I heard they even invited some second division teams from Spain and Greece to it, and they declined. I'm not sure if that is true or not, since it has a different format than the EuroChallenge that it replaced. But definitely it is true that second division teams from Spain, Italy, and Greece used to get invited and declined places in EuroChallenge. Europe Cup is basically just the EuroChallenge re-named and re-branded. They have changed the Eurocup (used to be ULEB Cup) and EuroChallenge (now Europe Cup) so many times I have lost count. They always are trying to change the names and formats of those leagues. But basically, Europe Cup is pretty much just the same league as EuroChallenge, under a new name, and claiming it's a "new league", even though it really isn't.

Lol. This sounds like a money grab from FIBA. The teams playing probably have to pay them some sort of participation or sanctioning fee.

[mojo13]

I am not sure exactly what is happening but there seems to be a little more to it. The EuroLeague historically hasn't really been too financially successful considering the popularity of the sport. The straw that broke the camels back was the rugby league getting a 4-5x bigger TV contract than the EuroLeague was able to ink. FIBA was trying to wrestle control on European professional basketball thinking it can run it better financially.

FIBA was close to inking the "Big 8" for next year and almost took over the Tier 1 level club competition in Europe (CSKA Moscow, Barcelona, Anadolu Efes, Fenerbahce, Real Madrid, Maccabi Tel Aviv, Olympiacos, and Panathinaikos seemed on board). But IMG swooped in a signed joint venture deal to run the Euroleague for the next decade. IMG locked in the 11 top teams teams and they have been given permanent membership to a 16 team Euroleague (Anadolu Efes and Fenerbahce Istanbul from Turkey; Barcelona , Real Madrid and Laboral Kutxa Vitoria Gasteiz from Spain; Olympiacos and Panathinaikos from Greece; Russia’s CSKA Moscow; Italy’s EA7 Emporio Armani Milan, Israel’s Maccabi Tel Aviv, and Lithuania’s Zalgiris Kaunas). the other 5 teams with will include the previous season’s Eurocup champion, three direct-access spots for domestic league champions, and one place for the winner of a qualifying round featuring eight teams. The new Eurocup, meanwhile, will feature 24 teams – 21 with access through domestic leagues and three wild card invitations.

More here for those that care:
http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/euroleague_snubs_fiba_to_launch_new_competitions_with_img

I think the FIBA Euro Cup was the FIBA's attempted Tier 2 competition, but IMG threw a wrench into things.
Yes it was a money grab of sorts, but somebody needed to fix the Euroleague. IMG won the battle.

[mojo13]

On 12 November 2015, the day after bidding deadline, FIBA announced six candidates to co-host the 3 men's qualification tournaments:

Czech Republic (Prague)
Germany (Hamburg)
Italy (Turin)
Philippines
Serbia (Belgrade)
Turkey

An evaluation of all bids will take place. The three winning bidders for this event will be announced on January 19, 2016.


Yeesh...not looking great for Canada. Nothing in the Americas.
Gonna be two in Europe and then likely the Philippines. I assume our best chances are "Not Serbia" and hopefully not Italy or Turkey.
Not sure I'd be happy playing Gilas in the Philippines either...that has corrupt officials stealing a game written all over it.


Probably the best scenario for Canada is for Germany and Philippines to host and one of Czech/Serbia/Italy). That keeps out Turkey (needs to host to get in) and Croatia (9th Eurobasket) , but drags in Latvia (8th Eurobasket) in and pulls in a Lebanon (5th Asia)

[Listas]

On 12 November 2015, the day after bidding deadline, FIBA announced six candidates to co-host the 3 men's qualification tournaments:

Czech Republic (Prague)
Germany (Hamburg)
Italy (Turin)
Philippines
Serbia (Belgrade)
Turkey

An evaluation of all bids will take place. The three winning bidders for this event will be announced on January 19, 2016.


Yeesh...not looking great for Canada. Nothing in the Americas.
Gonna be two in Europe and then likely the Philippines. I assume our best chances are "Not Serbia" and hopefully not Italy or Turkey.
Not sure I'd be happy playing Gilas in the Philippines either...that has corrupt officials stealing a game written all over it.


Probably the best scenario for Canada is for Germany and Philippines to host and one of Czech/Serbia/Italy). That keeps out Turkey (needs to host to get in) and Croatia (9th Eurobasket) , but drags in Latvia (8th Eurobasket) in and pulls in a Lebanon (5th Asia)

I wouldn't worry about the Philippines, you guys should beat them handily, refs or no refs. But it is going to be an uphill climb for you no matter what. There are 5 European teams already in the qualy tournament and after the hosts are announced, there will be another 1 or 2. They will most likely try to divide the teams from the same continent into different groups, so you will have to beat at least 2 Euro teams to get to the Olympics. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but you have no chance if you're in the same group as Serbia or France. If you manage to avoid them, your chances will increase, but you'll still have to beat some quite talented and experienced teams. I see the new round-robin format being beneficial to your young team, because losing a game to your main rivals is not the end for you.

[mojo13]

If anyone took that as disrespectful, they don't really know much about FIBA bball. We know Canada is looking up at teams like Serbia and France and we would be meaningful underdogs against either (and certainly Greece and likely Italy/Turkey/Croatia).
But Canada is a young athletic team that if things go right has a chance to overwhelm some of the less athletic European teams. Somewhat like Nigeria did to Greece in the last Olympic qualifier. I would suspect Serbia too well coached and too experienced to allow the game to be dictated to therm and France is the one European team that is even more more athletic. But the others, in one game? who knows? Of course Venezuela showed the game plan to for a inferior team to slow down and frustrate Canada. I don't think any Canadian fan is expecting Canada to qualify, but we know they are a young, inexperienced, athletic, drastically improving exciting team with potential. With that - we know anything can happen in one game and they have the ability to knock off France/Serbia/Greece etc. Likely? No. But there is a realistic chance.

[frumble]

Do we yet know what the format of these tournaments is going to be? E.g., full round robin, top two teams play in final to decide spot? That would be 6 games over the 7 days scheduled for the tournaments (July 4 to 10), so might be a little tight.

[mojo13]

Do we yet know what the format of these tournaments is going to be? E.g., full round robin, top two teams play in final to decide spot? That would be 6 games over the 7 days scheduled for the tournaments (July 4 to 10), so might be a little tight.

Last time around they took 12 teams and divided each into pools of three. Two round robin games - top two advance (so points +/- is crucial), 1 quarterfinal, 1 semi and 1 final - so at most 5 games (across 7 days). I suspect maybe something similar?

Day 1 = Pool Game 1 A vs B
Day 2 = Pool Game 2 A vs C
Day 3 = Pool Game 3 B vs C
Day 4 = Break
Day 5 = 1/2 Finals
Day 6 = Finals

Possible that with 7 days they add another break day in there? I suppose it can just as easily just be a pool play with the top 2 in a playoff.

[frumble]

Do we yet know what the format of these tournaments is going to be? E.g., full round robin, top two teams play in final to decide spot? That would be 6 games over the 7 days scheduled for the tournaments (July 4 to 10), so might be a little tight.

Last time around they took 12 teams and divided each into pools of three. Two round robin games - top two advance (so points +/- is crucial), 1 quarterfinal, 1 semi and 1 final - so at most 5 games (across 7 days). I suspect maybe something similar?

Day 1 = Pool Game 1 A vs B
Day 2 = Pool Game 2 A vs C
Day 3 = Pool Game 3 B vs C
Day 4 = Break
Day 5 = 1/2 Finals
Day 6 = Finals

Possible that with 7 days they add another break day in there? I suppose it can just as easily just be a pool play with the top 2 in a playoff.

That format (two groups of three with top two in each group making semis) is probably more likely given the time frame. They could even have another off day between the semis and the finals.

Any early speculation re roster given likely summer league commitments, contract status, etc.?

[mojo13]

Do we yet know what the format of these tournaments is going to be? E.g., full round robin, top two teams play in final to decide spot? That would be 6 games over the 7 days scheduled for the tournaments (July 4 to 10), so might be a little tight.

Last time around they took 12 teams and divided each into pools of three. Two round robin games - top two advance (so points +/- is crucial), 1 quarterfinal, 1 semi and 1 final - so at most 5 games (across 7 days). I suspect maybe something similar?

Day 1 = Pool Game 1 A vs B
Day 2 = Pool Game 2 A vs C
Day 3 = Pool Game 3 B vs C
Day 4 = Break
Day 5 = 1/2 Finals
Day 6 = Finals

Possible that with 7 days they add another break day in there? I suppose it can just as easily just be a pool play with the top 2 in a playoff.

That format (two groups of three with top two in each group making semis) is probably more likely given the time frame. They could even have another off day between the semis and the finals.

Any early speculation re roster given likely summer league commitments, contract status, etc.?

My personal thoughts on changes from the 2015 team:
Nichoslon out. I think he wont have a contract inked by the first week of July. Let alone early enough to prep/practice with the team. I am not sure if anyone else has contract issues.
TT comes in as a likely starter paired with KO. Upgrades interior defense but downgrades offense. However, the improved D is likely more valuable to this team. Not like we got much offense with Bennett starting.
Scrubb out. Pangos/Hanlan are showing they are clearly better players than Scrubb. We also need guys who know FIBA ball. Pangos and Hanlan, I can easily argue should be on the team over Tyler Ennis too. Ennis has been unimpressive to date and can't shoot.

Bennett out? Is he any good? I just can't quite tell. Should Lyle's or Ejim supplant his role? Or does he have a place on the team (has he fallen that far?)?


I'd like to see this team.
Starters:
Cojo
Stauskas
Wiggins
TT
KO

Bench:
Powell
Hanlan
Pangos
Heslip
Ejim
Sacre
Doornekamp

Would Lyles be better in there (I just dont know what we have with Lyles yet)? For who? Ejim? Sacre? Doornekamp? (When the heck do we find a back up SF?) I liked Ejim's energy/toughness but the size and talent is inferior to Lyles.

Also I don't think Jamal Murray is A) currently good enough for this team and B) wont play because of contract / rookie NBA commitment issues.

[frumble]

My personal thoughts on changes from the 2015 team:
Nichoslon out. I think he wont have a contract inked by the first week of July. Let alone early enough to prep/practice with the team. I am not sure if anyone else has contract issues.
TT comes in as a likely starter paired with KO. Upgrades interior defense but downgrades offense. However, the improved D is likely more valuable to this team. Not like we got much offense with Bennett starting.
Scrubb out. Pangos/Hanlan are showing they are clearly better players than Scrubb. We also need guys who know FIBA ball. Pangos and Hanlan, I can easily argue should be on the team over Tyler Ennis too. Ennis has been unimpressive to date and can't shoot.

Bennett out? Is he any good? I just can't quite tell. Should Lyle's or Ejim supplant his role? Or does he have a place on the team (has he fallen that far?)?


I'd like to see this team.
Starters:
Cojo
Stauskas
Wiggins
TT
KO

Bench:
Powell
Hanlan
Pangos
Heslip
Ejim
Sacre
Doornekamp

Would Lyles be better in there (I just dont know what we have with Lyles yet)? For who? Ejim? Sacre? Doornekamp? (When the heck do we find a back up SF?) I liked Ejim's energy/toughness but the size and talent is inferior to Lyles.

Also I don't think Jamal Murray is A) currently good enough for this team and B) wont play because of contract / rookie NBA commitment issues.

I generally agree with this.

Re bigs, assuming they are available, I think the first three are pretty set - KO and TT starting, with Powell first off the bench.

Re the 4th and 5th spots, Assuming no Nicholson (contract) and no Lyles (summer league), that leaves Sacre, Bennett, and Ejim for two spots. I think Bennett was the best of the three last summer, but that was a small sample, and I am somewhat indifferent among these three for this summer.

For SF and SG, I think we are looking at the same situation as last year, Wiggins and Stauskas, with Doornekamp and Heslip as the backups. I don't see a new SF candidate emerging (or K. Joseph returning), and I don't see Rautins or English taking Heslip's spot.

At PG, I agree that Pangos and Hanlan should be the backups to Joseph. But I can see them taking Ennis over Hanlan.

Of course all this assumes that everyone but Lyles, Nicholson, and Murray is available. I think we should probably expect injuries or other issues to knock out at least one or two other guys.

[PoundTown]

My personal thoughts on changes from the 2015 team:
Nichoslon out. I think he wont have a contract inked by the first week of July. Let alone early enough to prep/practice with the team. I am not sure if anyone else has contract issues.
TT comes in as a likely starter paired with KO. Upgrades interior defense but downgrades offense. However, the improved D is likely more valuable to this team. Not like we got much offense with Bennett starting.
Scrubb out. Pangos/Hanlan are showing they are clearly better players than Scrubb. We also need guys who know FIBA ball. Pangos and Hanlan, I can easily argue should be on the team over Tyler Ennis too. Ennis has been unimpressive to date and can't shoot.

Bennett out? Is he any good? I just can't quite tell. Should Lyle's or Ejim supplant his role? Or does he have a place on the team (has he fallen that far?)?


I'd like to see this team.
Starters:
Cojo
Stauskas
Wiggins
TT
KO

Bench:
Powell
Hanlan
Pangos
Heslip
Ejim
Sacre
Doornekamp

Would Lyles be better in there (I just dont know what we have with Lyles yet)? For who? Ejim? Sacre? Doornekamp? (When the heck do we find a back up SF?) I liked Ejim's energy/toughness but the size and talent is inferior to Lyles.

Also I don't think Jamal Murray is A) currently good enough for this team and B) wont play because of contract / rookie NBA commitment issues.

I generally agree with this.

Re bigs, assuming they are available, I think the first three are pretty set - KO and TT starting, with Powell first off the bench.

Re the 4th and 5th spots, Assuming no Nicholson (contract) and no Lyles (summer league), that leaves Sacre, Bennett, and Ejim for two spots. I think Bennett was the best of the three last summer, but that was a small sample, and I am somewhat indifferent among these three for this summer.

For SF and SG, I think we are looking at the same situation as last year, Wiggins and Stauskas, with Doornekamp and Heslip as the backups. I don't see a new SF candidate emerging (or K. Joseph returning), and I don't see Rautins or English taking Heslip's spot.

At PG, I agree that Pangos and Hanlan should be the backups to Joseph. But I can see them taking Ennis over Hanlan.

Of course all this assumes that everyone but Lyles, Nicholson, and Murray is available. I think we should probably expect injuries or other issues to knock out at least one or two other guys.

After reading through this thread it seems as though a few posts are alluding to Lyles not be available because of Summer League. In my opinion it's more likely than not that he is available. A lot of teams are going away from putting in sophomore players that were 1st rounders in the Summer League... ala Nik Stauskas being in exact same situation as Lyles last summer and suiting up for Canada. Anyways, let's hope nothing holds TT back from suiting up; that is huge and really adds to the depth of the team if he can play. Nobody in the NBA can keep him off the boards, so international teams surely will have their hands full.

[SharoneWright]

I'd like to see this team.
Starters:
Cojo
Stauskas
Wiggins
TT
KO

Bench:
Powell
Hanlan
Pangos
Heslip
Ejim
Sacre
Doornekamp

Would Lyles be better in there (I just dont know what we have with Lyles yet)? For who? Ejim? Sacre? Doornekamp? (When the heck do we find a back up SF?) I liked Ejim's energy/toughness but the size and talent is inferior to Lyles.

Also I don't think Jamal Murray is A) currently good enough for this team and B) wont play because of contract / rookie NBA commitment issues.

How many of these guys you figure are up for committing again? tia.

I expect many more to be unavailable/unwilling this time round.

[Mattd97]

Doornekamp is harder to shake than genital warts

[mojo13]

Doornekamp is harder to shake than genital warts

Hah...at times I wholly agree. But like a wart he grew on me during the FIBA Americas. Our SMNT team is too young and soft (physically and mentally). Doornekamp actually provides some toughness, FIBA ball knowledge (more important than most people think) and general "intangibles" (boy I hate saying that). I just wish his dang "intangibles" showed up on the last play of the game versus Venezuela!

Doornekamps is a testament to just how bad we are at the SF position. Wiggins isnt really a SF and unless Ejim/Lyles/Bennett show they can play SF we are stuck for him in the short term. The hope right now, I think, is if someone like Murray/Hanlan can step into a legit 2 man role, perhaps Stauskas can plug the hole as a back up three?


With Lyles, I am less concerned about Summer league getting in the way. I think NBA teams would almost rather see their young guys play at a better level of competition. Summer league is more of an issue for guys like Ejim who need it to audition for an NBA job.

My question on Lyles, is he good enough / experienced enough to bring something more than Bennett/Ejim/Nicholson/Sacre? I am not sure he is there yet (I have a similar critique with Ennis and Jamal Murray). FIBA experience is a big deal - that has to be clear by now. Young NBA guns often get embarrassed in FIBA ball. I just don't know about Lyles yet.

I ask again - do we know of any contract issues besides Nicholson? Bennett and Sacre could be issues.

And the more I think about Sacre...the more I think we will need him. There will be sizable centers in these tournaments. Can TT/KO/Powell handle Rudy Gobert? Boban the Giant? Koufos and Bourousis. Asik or maybe Kanter? Even Porzingis dominated KO the other night. We are not talking Marc Gasol here...but still reserve size could be very important. I dont think Bennett/Ejim/Nicholson is going to cut it.

[PoundTown]

Doornekamp is harder to shake than genital warts

Hah...at times I wholly agree. But like a wart he grew on me during the FIBA Americas. Our SMNT team is too young and soft (physically and mentally). Doornekamp actually provides some toughness, FIBA ball knowledge (more important than most people think) and general "intangibles" (boy I hate saying that). I just wish his dang "intangibles" showed up on the last play of the game versus Venezuela!

Doornekamps is a testament to just how bad we are at the SF position. Wiggins isnt really a SF and unless Ejim/Lyles/Bennett show they can play SF we are stuck for him in the short term. The hope right now, I think, is if someone like Murray/Hanlan can step into a legit 2 man role, perhaps Stauskas can plug the hole as a back up three?


With Lyles, I am less concerned about Summer league getting in the way. I think NBA teams would almost rather see their young guys play at a better level of competition. Summer league is more of an issue for guys like Ejim who need it to audition for an NBA job.

My question on Lyles, is he good enough / experienced enough to bring something more than Bennett/Ejim/Nicholson/Sacre? I am not sure he is there yet (I have a similar critique with Ennis and Jamal Murray). FIBA experience is a big deal - that has to be clear by now. Young NBA guns often get embarrassed in FIBA ball. I just don't know about Lyles yet.

I ask again - do we know of any contract issues besides Nicholson? Bennett and Sacre could be issues.

And the more I think about Sacre...the more I think we will need him. There will be sizable centers in these tournaments. Can TT/KO/Powell handle Rudy Gobert? Boban the Giant? Koufos and Bourousis. Asik or maybe Kanter? Even Porzingis dominated KO the other night. We are not talking Marc Gasol here...but still reserve size could be very important. I dont think Bennett/Ejim/Nicholson is going to cut it.

I would like to bring Lyles, even if he is the 5th big. Integral part of the future and lets get him engaged as soon as possible. Especially, if Nicholson isn't available. I take Lyles before I take Bennett anyways.

[WorldChamp]

Doornekamp is harder to shake than genital warts

Hah...at times I wholly agree. But like a wart he grew on me during the FIBA Americas. Our SMNT team is too young and soft (physically and mentally). Doornekamp actually provides some toughness, FIBA ball knowledge (more important than most people think) and general "intangibles" (boy I hate saying that). I just wish his dang "intangibles" showed up on the last play of the game versus Venezuela!

Doornekamps is a testament to just how bad we are at the SF position. Wiggins isnt really a SF and unless Ejim/Lyles/Bennett show they can play SF we are stuck for him in the short term. The hope right now, I think, is if someone like Murray/Hanlan can step into a legit 2 man role, perhaps Stauskas can plug the hole as a back up three?


With Lyles, I am less concerned about Summer league getting in the way. I think NBA teams would almost rather see their young guys play at a better level of competition. Summer league is more of an issue for guys like Ejim who need it to audition for an NBA job.

My question on Lyles, is he good enough / experienced enough to bring something more than Bennett/Ejim/Nicholson/Sacre? I am not sure he is there yet (I have a similar critique with Ennis and Jamal Murray). FIBA experience is a big deal - that has to be clear by now. Young NBA guns often get embarrassed in FIBA ball. I just don't know about Lyles yet.

I ask again - do we know of any contract issues besides Nicholson? Bennett and Sacre could be issues.

And the more I think about Sacre...the more I think we will need him. There will be sizable centers in these tournaments. Can TT/KO/Powell handle Rudy Gobert? Boban the Giant? Koufos and Bourousis. Asik or maybe Kanter? Even Porzingis dominated KO the other night. We are not talking Marc Gasol here...but still reserve size could be very important. I dont think Bennett/Ejim/Nicholson is going to cut it.

I would like to bring Lyles, even if he is the 5th big. Integral part of the future and lets get him engaged as soon as possible. Especially, if Nicholson isn't available. I take Lyles before I take Bennett anyways.

Bennett plays with so much pride when he plays for Canada. I like Lyles (starting to look like a future all-star) but he sat out vs the US with a bs injury in juniors and I always wondered if he refused to play against them because he's an American as well. I'd cut Sacre, I don't think either Nicholson or Murray will be available...Bennett might not be either since he doesn't have an extension.

[azorian]

Just incase anyone is interested tsn2 is showing the,athletic Institute vs Findlay prep. They're calling it Canada vs nevada

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