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Official Draft Thread 2015-16

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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#721 » by Gomes3PC » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:46 pm

Celtsfan1980 wrote:
Gomes3PC wrote:Outside of Kris Dunn, who is a junior and can have a Smart-like defensive impact on day one, I don't see a guy in this draft who would step on the court and help a playoff team in more than a 10 MPG type role.

Ingram can't? The hatred against rookies here is absurd.

It's possible, but not a lock. How many rookies are helping teams right now?

1. KAT - would definitely help
2. Russell - LOL
3. Okafor - nope
4. Kristaps - yep
5. Hezonja - nope
6. WCS - nope
7. Mudiay - not even remotely
8. Johnson - kind of, but he's mostly a liability still
9. Kaminsky - maybe as an 8th man like he is for CHA
10. Winslow - yep
11. Turner - see Kaminsky
12. Lyles - nope
13. Booker - see Kaminsky
14. Payne - nope
15. Oubre - nope
16. Rozier - nope
17. Vaughn - nope
18. Dekker - nope
19. Grant - nope
20. Wright - nope
21. Anderson - nope
22. Portis - maybe? not being given a chance so hard to tell
23. RHJ - definitely
24. Jones - nope
25. Martin - nope

So in one of the deepest draft classes in recent memory, you have 3 guys who would be key contributors (KAT, Zinger and RHJ), 2-3 others who could fill a bench role, and then 15+ guys who would be waving towels.

People need to realize that even the guy we pick with the Nets pick might not help much next year, and the guys we get from the Mavs/C's pick will almost certainly be effectively a red-shirt.
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#722 » by Gant » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:51 pm

Gomes3PC wrote:
Celtsfan1980 wrote:
Gomes3PC wrote:Outside of Kris Dunn, who is a junior and can have a Smart-like defensive impact on day one, I don't see a guy in this draft who would step on the court and help a playoff team in more than a 10 MPG type role.

Ingram can't? The hatred against rookies here is absurd.

It's possible, but not a lock. How many rookies are helping teams right now?

1. KAT - would definitely help
2. Russell - LOL
3. Okafor - nope
4. Kristaps - yep
5. Hezonja - nope
6. WCS - nope
7. Mudiay - not even remotely
8. Johnson - kind of, but he's mostly a liability still
9. Kaminsky - maybe as an 8th man like he is for CHA
10. Winslow - yep
11. Turner - see Kaminsky
12. Lyles - nope
13. Booker - see Kaminsky
14. Payne - nope
15. Oubre - nope
16. Rozier - nope
17. Vaughn - nope
18. Dekker - nope
19. Grant - nope
20. Wright - nope
21. Anderson - nope
22. Portis - maybe? not being given a chance so hard to tell
23. RHJ - definitely
24. Jones - nope
25. Martin - nope

So in one of the deepest draft classes in recent memory, you have 3 guys who would be key contributors (KAT, Zinger and RHJ), 2-3 others who could fill a bench role, and then 15+ guys who would be waving towels.

People need to realize that even the guy we pick with the Nets pick might not help much next year, and the guys we get from the Mavs/C's pick will almost certainly be effectively a red-shirt.


Theoretically one or two of Hunter, Mickey, Rozier, and Young will contribute something significant next year, while next year's rookies incubate.
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#723 » by Gomes3PC » Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:24 pm

Of course - that's not the point being made. Folks here seem to think we will find an immediate-impact guy with the Mavs/C's picks next year. I am just cautioning against that, and I am cautioning that even the Nets pick could be a while before he contributes. Just look at Jabari Parker. He was viewed as "NBA Ready" when drafted but still is struggling to make a positive impact for MIlwaukee.
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#724 » by Homerclease » Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:33 pm

Gomes3PC wrote:Of course - that's not the point being made. Folks here seem to think we will find an immediate-impact guy with the Mavs/C's picks next year. I am just cautioning against that, and I am cautioning that even the Nets pick could be a while before he contributes. Just look at Jabari Parker. He was viewed as "NBA Ready" when drafted but still is struggling to make a positive impact for MIlwaukee.

I generally agree with this but from many celtics fans point of view they see #6 pick Marcus Smart starting at PG on a playoff team last year and a late first and early second round pick this year that a large portion of the fanbase wants to see in the rotation this year in Hunter and Mickey. People are naturally going to expect it can be done again. The point I was making was more along the lines of quality of team related to draft position.

Do you not feel guys like Russell and Okafor would be rotation players here? Their teams aren't in playoff contention because the rest of the team is garbage. That's not the situation here. I would expect a top 5 draft pick to be able to contribute very early barring injury (like your example in Parker) or the player flat out sucking. Hell, even Porzingis was supposed to be more of a project and he's certainly contributing for the Knicks.
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#725 » by chakdaddy » Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:23 pm

Any chance Ainge can bear to pass on Kris Dunn?
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#726 » by ddb » Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:53 pm

chakdaddy wrote:Any chance Ainge can bear to pass on Kris Dunn?


probably not. Ainge goes BPA
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#727 » by Duke4life831 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:40 pm

165bows wrote:
Bar Fight wrote:I've been 100% aboard the Simmons hype train, but Ingram has been closing the gap lately. He's much improved already from where he was at the start of the season.


Mike Schmitz ‏@Mike_Schmitz 11h11 hours ago

Brandon Ingram's last 5 games: 22.8 PTS, 8.8 boards, 2.0 STL, 1.8 BLK, 17-30 ( 57%) from 3.


PS, Simmons has played the 320th hardest schedule so far (out of 351 D1 teams). Opposing defenses faced rank 306. He's clearly talented, I just am not going to jump on the franchise-savior bandwagon with him until he's played more real teams.

http://kenpom.com/index.php?s=RankSOSPythag


This. He's putting up great stats against just awful competition. Ingram has started to put up great stats as well against awful competition. I'm waiting to see if either guy can keep up these numbers against legit competition
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#728 » by Celtsfan1980 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:22 am

Gomes3PC wrote:
Celtsfan1980 wrote:
Gomes3PC wrote:Outside of Kris Dunn, who is a junior and can have a Smart-like defensive impact on day one, I don't see a guy in this draft who would step on the court and help a playoff team in more than a 10 MPG type role.

Ingram can't? The hatred against rookies here is absurd.

It's possible, but not a lock. How many rookies are helping teams right now?

1. KAT - would definitely help
2. Russell - LOL
3. Okafor - nope
4. Kristaps - yep
5. Hezonja - nope
6. WCS - nope
7. Mudiay - not even remotely
8. Johnson - kind of, but he's mostly a liability still
9. Kaminsky - maybe as an 8th man like he is for CHA
10. Winslow - yep
11. Turner - see Kaminsky
12. Lyles - nope
13. Booker - see Kaminsky
14. Payne - nope
15. Oubre - nope
16. Rozier - nope
17. Vaughn - nope
18. Dekker - nope
19. Grant - nope
20. Wright - nope
21. Anderson - nope
22. Portis - maybe? not being given a chance so hard to tell
23. RHJ - definitely
24. Jones - nope
25. Martin - nope

So in one of the deepest draft classes in recent memory, you have 3 guys who would be key contributors (KAT, Zinger and RHJ), 2-3 others who could fill a bench role, and then 15+ guys who would be waving towels.

People need to realize that even the guy we pick with the Nets pick might not help much next year, and the guys we get from the Mavs/C's pick will almost certainly be effectively a red-shirt.

Many feel Mickey can contribute right now. I'd wait until the end of the year regarding the past draft. If the draft goes as I hope it does(Ingram, trade up for a Center) and the Center shows any abilities they'll be getting minutes. A point guard could get minutes as well.
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#729 » by pfm » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:15 am

Agree that it's tough to judge Simmons right now due to competition level, but once he gets into conference play we can get a decent look. The SEC isn't great, but it'll do.
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#730 » by chakdaddy » Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:58 am

ddb wrote:
chakdaddy wrote:Any chance Ainge can bear to pass on Kris Dunn?


probably not. Ainge goes BPA


I wonder how long it will take before it dawns on him - combo guards are so easy to find, maybe they're not actually the BPA. "What are the odds! The best player left on the board falls to us again! So weird, another 6'4" defender who can't shoot..."
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#731 » by 165bows » Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:20 am

Lol deflected it into his own hoop.
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#732 » by jfs1000d » Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:25 am

Guys, the mock drafts have skal labrissiere as a high draft pick. I mean, seriously? He can't even play in college. I mean, what a joke your website is if that guy is considered a player.


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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#733 » by Murta » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:08 am

jfs1000d wrote:Guys, the mock drafts have skal labrissiere as a high draft pick. I mean, seriously? He can't even play in college. I mean, what a joke your website is if that guy is considered a player.


Folks that run draft sites are pretty conservative when it comes to falling and rising draft stock. Sometimes they're right like when non-draft reporters were saying "Napier is a top 15 player" or like when most fans overreacted on Ingram early this season, yet none of the draft sites lowered his projected position significantly.
I'm with you when it comes to Labissiere. He has an NBA body and shooting range, but that's about everything he brings to the table. Unless he makes significant strides in rebounding, feel for the game and non-shotblocking part of defense, he is not nearly NBA player.
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#734 » by Gomes3PC » Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:05 pm

Skal is being misused and definitely not playing as well as he has shown in the past. Have to be patient. Kelly Oubre rode pine for 5-10 games last year and wound up as a lotto pick still.
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#735 » by jfs1000d » Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:44 pm

Gomes3PC wrote:Skal is being misused and definitely not playing as well as he has shown in the past. Have to be patient. Kelly Oubre rode pine for 5-10 games last year and wound up as a lotto pick still.


Caliperi is Mis using Skal? Come on. The kid stinks. I can't even fathom how high he got in the mocks. It is 15 games in. He has 22 pts in six games. Guy is a skinny player with no strength and no game.

No more draft sites. You can't mock draft until these guys play in college.


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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#736 » by Edug27 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:59 pm

I'm a huge Simmons guy, but I was disappointed in watching him play last night vs Wake Forest. He didn't really set himself apart from the rest in that game. Looked lost on the offensive side. He's still my number 1 pick, but those coaches down there at LSU need to encourage him to put up shots.
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#737 » by Gomes3PC » Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:06 pm

jfs1000d wrote:
Gomes3PC wrote:Skal is being misused and definitely not playing as well as he has shown in the past. Have to be patient. Kelly Oubre rode pine for 5-10 games last year and wound up as a lotto pick still.


Caliperi is Mis using Skal? Come on. The kid stinks. I can't even fathom how high he got in the mocks. It is 15 games in. He has 22 pts in six games. Guy is a skinny player with no strength and no game.

No more draft sites. You can't mock draft until these guys play in college.


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Yes, he is misusing him. Read guys like Parrish, Goodman, Norlander, etc. who have watched him in HS. He has a great pick and pop game but Kentucky doesn't play that way - it's all motion drive-and-kick, which suits big men who crash the glass rather than step out and hit Js.

I'm not saying he's not a disappointment thus far. I am just saying you can't write a kid off after 6 games, just like you wouldn't place some nobody in the top 10 after 5 good games. Again, not to harp back to Oubre, but he had just 31 points his first 9 games, then averaged 11 PPG after that and was a lotto pick by year end.
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#738 » by SmartWentCrazy » Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:14 pm

Let's not re-write history regarding Kelly Oubre. He was a massive disappointment in college (widely considered a potential top 5 pick in the preseason due to his God given attributes), who fell out of the lottery due to his underwhelming performance.
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#739 » by Murta » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:16 pm

Having watched every Bender's game I could last 3 months (ICYMI my post before the season, I only saw one game of his before), I like what I saw from him. He's a 7ft1 small-ball 4 who can protect the rim. Bender's shot is smooth and even getting better with time. His only real weaknesses are offense near the rim (post game and moves) and somewhat rebounding. And of course adding weight and muscles, which is only natural considering he just turned 18.
People who do not watch the actual games would say his rebounding is extremely concerning due to low stat number, but he's asked to box out and spread out his arms. Literally 70%+ percent of the time he boxes out opponents and lets other teammates catch rebounds.

I do not know who to compare him with. When I watch Bender, I see (this is going to be wacky, prepare yourself) what would be if Ray Aleen was 7ft. He would set p&r instead of running it, his running through screens wouldn't be focused on finding space but finding somebody smaller to shoot over. Comparing him to Kukoč and Nowitzki is OK, but Bender's bread and butter 3s are in the corner while both of those ( link link ) barely shoot it. Which makes his moves completely different, albeit with similar playing style.
The most encouraging aspect of his offensive game is how much he started driving to the rim in December. Before that Bender didn't try to assert himself, if you combine his October and November number of rim attack, it's half of the December's.

His defensive style and moves are very similar to how Marc Gasol's. Using intelligence, length, shot blocking instincts and above average athleticism to generate defensive stops. The quality is obviously not there yet even at the Euroleague level, but it's great Bender doesn't need to learn defensive concepts and moves, he only needs to improve.

Overall, prospects I find as Bender's closest draft-day (overstating the word draft-day) comparisons are Jonathan Bender (obviously Dragan's vision is 10x better) and Kevin Garnett. Today he's not an NBA player, he's a 7th or 8th player on a Euroleague team, but following him with continuity, his improvement through last 3 months is noticeable. It's good for Bender his club didn't manage to qualify for next phase of Euroleague because they will play in Eurocup for the rest of the season (a 2nd tier competition, the same where Zinger played last season) and he'll get more playing time.
His outcome is tough to project because it'll depend on one thing: rate of improvement. His ceiling is very high (higher than Simmons' and Ingram's), but his current ability is relatively low. That's why I mentioned J. Bender and KG. Both were marginal NBA player at the time of the draft with similar level of ability, one improved rapidly and the other stayed the same. That's why his improvement attacking the rim is a major positive sign.
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Re: Official Draft Thread 2015-16 

Post#740 » by jfs1000d » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:33 pm

Dont give me parish, good!an and norlander. They see these guys once. Skal cant play.

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