2016 NBA Draft/College Basketball Thread

FreesFro · Post #1021 » by **FreesFro** » Sun Jan 3, 2016 3:24 pm

MJ did not have an elite mid range game out of college.

Magic was an awful shooter coming out of MSU. Come on. Mid range or from deep. Never was a good shooter from 3pt range, but that wasn't as huge a part of the NBA back in the early 80's like it is now.

76ers 2020 · Post #1022 » by **76ers 2020** » Sun Jan 3, 2016 3:45 pm

FreesFro wrote:MJ did not have an elite mid range game out of college.

Magic was an awful shooter coming out of MSU. Come on. Mid range or from deep. Never was a good shooter from 3pt range, but that wasn't as huge a part of the NBA back in the early 80's like it is now.

Announcers make mention of that perception of Jordan here. Link is time stamped.
http://youtu.be/GnAFWxtT5W8?t=5m3s

FreesFro · Post #1023 » by **FreesFro** » Sun Jan 3, 2016 4:16 pm

76ers 2020 wrote:
FreesFro wrote:MJ did not have an elite mid range game out of college.

Magic was an awful shooter coming out of MSU. Come on. Mid range or from deep. Never was a good shooter from 3pt range, but that wasn't as huge a part of the NBA back in the early 80's like it is now.

Announcers make mention of that perception of Jordan here. Link is time stamped.
http://youtu.be/GnAFWxtT5W8?t=5m3s

And because the announcers say something it's true? I watched him play. The Clips announcers last night were saying Nik is a great shooter or one of them did. Does that mean it's true?

And you said "elite". That means he was cream of the crop in mid-range game right out of college. Not true. He became that. He was good right out of college, but there were many guys with better mid-range games in the NBA in 1984-85.

MJ was not an elite mid-range shooter as a frosh or sophomore at NC. That's what we're comparing to Simmons, no? And the fact we are comparing anything about Simmons to the greatest is saying something.

The thing about MJ was he improved each and every year. Worked hard. You need great talent and great work ethic to get to be MJ. His shot improved over time. Just like Magic and Kidd.

76ers 2020 · Post #1024 » by **76ers 2020** » Sun Jan 3, 2016 4:37 pm

FreesFro wrote:
And because the announcers say something it's true? I watched him play. The Clips announcers last night were saying Nik is a great shooter or one of them did. Does that mean it's true?

And you said "elite". That means he was cream of the crop in mid-range game right out of college. Not true. He became that. He was good right out of college, but there were many guys with better mid-range games in the NBA in 1984-85.

MJ was not an elite mid-range shooter as a frosh or sophomore at NC. That's what we're comparing to Simmons, no? And the fact we are comparing anything about Simmons to the greatest is saying something.

The thing about MJ was he improved each and every year. Worked hard. You need great talent and great work ethic to get to be MJ. His shot improved over time. Just like Magic and Kidd.

I posted the clip since it backed up what you said...

FreesFro · Post #1025 » by **FreesFro** » Sun Jan 3, 2016 4:51 pm

76ers 2020 wrote:
FreesFro wrote:
And because the announcers say something it's true? I watched him play. The Clips announcers last night were saying Nik is a great shooter or one of them did. Does that mean it's true?

And you said "elite". That means he was cream of the crop in mid-range game right out of college. Not true. He became that. He was good right out of college, but there were many guys with better mid-range games in the NBA in 1984-85.

MJ was not an elite mid-range shooter as a frosh or sophomore at NC. That's what we're comparing to Simmons, no? And the fact we are comparing anything about Simmons to the greatest is saying something.

The thing about MJ was he improved each and every year. Worked hard. You need great talent and great work ethic to get to be MJ. His shot improved over time. Just like Magic and Kidd.

I posted the clip since it backed up what you said...

Ha, my bad. I watched the video, but didn't listen. It was obviously a highlight of his made baskets, 2 of which were mid-range.

I thought I was responding to the other guy. I just assumed. Sorry about that and thanks for the video. Those announcers know their stuff, ha.

Mik317 · Post #1026 » by **Mik317** » Sun Jan 3, 2016 4:56 pm

I know people fear the non shooter guy because of our recent history (Turner and MCW for example). Turner's shot was broken. MCW , I still believe we gave up on too soon (after all he was too hurt to actually work on his jumper that offseason, Kidd now has him not taking jumpers at all) and both are much older than Simmons so were closer to final products anyway. Neither were 6'10 (a big ass difference) and Simmons at the very least is as good of an athlete as MCW...with a quicker first step.

He's going to have to add a jumper for sure to be great but a 6'10 guy with a quick first step and body control is going to still be pretty productive until he does. The fact that he doesn't have to take 3 and jumpers and can still drop 30 is some crazy ****...Vandy isn't top competition but still...that **** cray.

Ingram looks neat too (that dunk doe) but lets relax on killing Simmons because he doesn't have the best jumper yet.

phantom84 · Post #1027 » by **phantom84** » Sun Jan 3, 2016 5:52 pm

FreesFro wrote:
76ers 2020 wrote:
FreesFro wrote:
And because the announcers say something it's true? I watched him play. The Clips announcers last night were saying Nik is a great shooter or one of them did. Does that mean it's true?

And you said "elite". That means he was cream of the crop in mid-range game right out of college. Not true. He became that. He was good right out of college, but there were many guys with better mid-range games in the NBA in 1984-85.

MJ was not an elite mid-range shooter as a frosh or sophomore at NC. That's what we're comparing to Simmons, no? And the fact we are comparing anything about Simmons to the greatest is saying something.

The thing about MJ was he improved each and every year. Worked hard. You need great talent and great work ethic to get to be MJ. His shot improved over time. Just like Magic and Kidd.

I posted the clip since it backed up what you said...

Ha, my bad. I watched the video, but didn't listen. It was obviously a highlight of his made baskets, 2 of which were mid-range.

I thought I was responding to the other guy. I just assumed. Sorry about that and thanks for the video. Those announcers know their stuff, ha.

Well, here is a better source regarding MJ lack of shooting's ability. Straight from Rob Thorn, the Bull's GM, who drafted MJ. "Back then, the knock on Michael was that he couldn't shoot the ball," Thorn recalled. "

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/michael-jordan-set-hall-fame-rod-thorn-remembers-began-article-1.359350

Kobblehead · Post #1028 » by **Kobblehead** » Sun Jan 3, 2016 5:54 pm

IMO, Simmons transcends normal evaluation talk. The fact that he doesn't have a jumpshot literally doesn't even matter. He's an unstoppable force, regardless.

FreesFro · Post #1029 » by **FreesFro** » Sun Jan 3, 2016 6:12 pm

phantom84 wrote:
FreesFro wrote:
76ers 2020 wrote:
I posted the clip since it backed up what you said...

Ha, my bad. I watched the video, but didn't listen. It was obviously a highlight of his made baskets, 2 of which were mid-range.

I thought I was responding to the other guy. I just assumed. Sorry about that and thanks for the video. Those announcers know their stuff, ha.

Well, here is a better source regarding MJ lack of shooting's ability. Straight from Rob Thorn, the Bull's GM, who drafted MJ. "Back then, the knock on Michael was that he couldn't shoot the ball," Thorn recalled. "

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/michael-jordan-set-hall-fame-rod-thorn-remembers-began-article-1.359350

Great find.

Kobblehead · Post #1030 » by **Kobblehead** » Sun Jan 3, 2016 6:16 pm

Yeah, this whole digression of refuting my list of facilitating superstars that couldn't shoot was pointless.

Michael Jordan was a slashing facilitator that implemented a mid-range shot as his career went on. He wasn't a shooter. He couldn't shoot for s***. Neither could Grant Hill, Magic, LeBron, Wade or Penny. And it didn't matter with any of them. And it won't matter with Simmons.

Ericb5 · Post #1031 » by **Ericb5** » Sun Jan 3, 2016 8:57 pm

Mik317 wrote:I know people fear the non shooter guy because of our recent history (Turner and MCW for example). Turner's shot was broken. MCW , I still believe we gave up on too soon (after all he was too hurt to actually work on his jumper that offseason, Kidd now has him not taking jumpers at all) and both are much older than Simmons so were closer to final products anyway. Neither were 6'10 (a big ass difference) and Simmons at the very least is as good of an athlete as MCW...with a quicker first step.

He's going to have to add a jumper for sure to be great but a 6'10 guy with a quick first step and body control is going to still be pretty productive until he does. The fact that he doesn't have to take 3 and jumpers and can still drop 30 is some crazy ****...Vandy isn't top competition but still...that **** cray.

Ingram looks neat too (that dunk doe) but lets relax on killing Simmons because he doesn't have the best jumper yet.

I think that part of the reason that Simmons doesn't shoot jumpers is because he doesn't have to at this point. Yes, he will need to develop a jump shot to reach his ceiling, but currently he is dominating the level of competition that he is facing right now.

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Post #1032 » by **Duke4life831** » Sun Jan 3, 2016 9:43 pm

Ingram from yesterday

[youtube]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X7x2-ivkYbw[/youtube]

Unbreakable99 · Post #1033 » by **Unbreakable99** » Sun Jan 3, 2016 9:43 pm

Simmons is special. The ball is going to be in this hands most of the time on every possession. Should we be lucky enough to get him he would make not having a PG ok. Simmons facilitates the offense whether at PF or SF. He would give Okafor a lot easier looks. The whole team would benefit from his facilitation. I still think we could roll up a lineup without a PG and have Simmons running the show.

FreesFro · Post #1034 » by **FreesFro** » Mon Jan 4, 2016 12:11 am

Yes, Simmons should have ball in hands majority of time. So many options then. Could afford to play a smaller SG that can shoot lights out. Or a PG/SG combo that can score.

If and it's a big if, but if we land Simmons and Embiid can play and Saric comes over every game next year will be appointment TV and rhe Wells Fargo will be.jumping.

Embiid P · Post #1035 » by **Embiid P** » Mon Jan 4, 2016 1:54 am

So I checked out Kris Dunn's profile page on NBADraft.net and the player comparison made me chuckle a little lol.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/kris-dunn

Kobblehead · Post #1036 » by **Kobblehead** » Mon Jan 4, 2016 1:58 am

Kris Dunn, bust confirmed.

Ericb5 · Post #1037 » by **Ericb5** » Mon Jan 4, 2016 2:32 am

Stinky Hinkie wrote:So I checked out Kris Dunn's profile page on NBADraft.net and the player comparison made me chuckle a little lol.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/kris-dunn

Those are horrible comparisons seeing as he is a true point guard and is being compared to two scoring guards.

If there is one thing that Dunn has going for him it is the mentality to play the position.

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Embiid P · Post #1038 » by **Embiid P** » Mon Jan 4, 2016 4:05 am

Ericb5 wrote:
Stinky Hinkie wrote:So I checked out Kris Dunn's profile page on NBADraft.net and the player comparison made me chuckle a little lol.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/kris-dunn

Those are horrible comparisons seeing as he is a true point guard and is being compared to two scoring guards.

If there is one thing that Dunn has going for him it is the mentality to play the position.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I'm not saying that those comparisons are accurate by any means as I haven't really seen enough of Dunn to make a fair assessment of his game, but I'm going to assume that he is being compared to Wroten in terms of size, athleticism and the ability to get to the rim, all of which are above average. Nothing more. Still the projected number 4 pick being compared to Wroten struck me as funny and ironic.

Wilfried · Post #1039 » by **Wilfried** » Mon Jan 4, 2016 9:00 am

Stinky Hinkie wrote:So I checked out Kris Dunn's profile page on NBADraft.net and the player comparison made me chuckle a little lol.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/kris-dunn

Time to check that DeShawn Stevenson NBAdraft.net-comparison again.

Kolkmania · Post #1040 » by **Kolkmania** » Mon Jan 4, 2016 9:22 am

LeBron, MJ, they were all poor shooters coming in the league, but it is not like they couldn't make a shot further than 10 feet at all. Simmons is a great driver and perhaps that's why he isn't even attempting shots, although I can't deny it worries me big time.

By the way, I like LeVert big time. Sometimes big guard players are forced/talked into the PG position to help their draft stock (Yes Murray, I'm talking to you), but this is kid is a great facilitator. Like his first quick step as well.