Can We Just Fire Karl Now And Be Done With it.

[benchmobbin02]

Do any of you remember the last offseason when the whole nba was taking a dump on our city because of the lack of stability. Just asking...

I know the loses are soul crushing after having hope in the preseason but firing Karl well only make it worse and you all know that. Some may say at this point that you have to get worse to get better. I'm of the belief that this unit should be given a season to work together at the very least.

We just lost to Philly at home. How much worse can it possibly get?

ummm...we could be 3-31

Our superstar could have missed 1/4 of the season so far and our 1st round draft pick could have missed almost a 1/3. Wait...they have.

[codydaze]

Do any of you remember the last offseason when the whole nba was taking a dump on our city because of the lack of stability. Just asking...

I know the loses are soul crushing after having hope in the preseason but firing Karl well only make it worse and you all know that. Some may say at this point that you have to get worse to get better. I'm of the belief that this unit should be given a season to work together at the very least.

We just lost to Philly at home. How much worse can it possibly get?

ummm...we could be 3-31

Our superstar could have missed 1/4 of the season so far and our 1st round draft pick could have missed almost a 1/3. Wait...they have.

We have won 12 games. 12-20, a winning percentage of 37.5% in what has been an utter disappointment of a season. I would put all my money on firing Karl not making this team any worse. Our roster is supremely more talented than that Philly roster as it's more talented than the teams below us and even some in front of us in the standings. Karl isn't getting anything out of this team that an interim head coach wouldn't be able to.

Edit: And just to add. It's not just the record. It's the way we're losing games, they way we look out on the court and even the way we've won some games. It's just ugly any way you look at it. I am of the belief all of that ugliness has its roots with George Karl.

[benchmobbin02]

We just lost to Philly at home. How much worse can it possibly get?

ummm...we could be 3-31

Our superstar could have missed 1/4 of the season so far and our 1st round draft pick could have missed almost a 1/3. Wait...they have.

We have won 12 games. 12-20, a winning percentage of 37.5% in what has been an utter disappointment of a season. I would put all my money on firing Karl not making this team any worse. Our roster is supremely more talented than that Philly roster as it's more talented than the teams below us and even some in front of us in the standings. Karl isn't getting anything out of this team that an interim head coach wouldn't be able to.

Edit: And just to add. It's not just the record. It's the way we're losing games, they way we look out on the court and even the way we've won some games. It's just ugly any way you look at it. I am of the belief all of that ugliness has its roots with George Karl.

I am not of that belief, and that is okay.

I think this team would become markedly worse with not only the lose of Karl but the stress, intense media blitz and organizational back step another interim coach would create and would gladly take your money.

[codydaze]

ummm...we could be 3-31

Our superstar could have missed 1/4 of the season so far and our 1st round draft pick could have missed almost a 1/3. Wait...they have.

We have won 12 games. 12-20, a winning percentage of 37.5% in what has been an utter disappointment of a season. I would put all my money on firing Karl not making this team any worse. Our roster is supremely more talented than that Philly roster as it's more talented than the teams below us and even some in front of us in the standings. Karl isn't getting anything out of this team that an interim head coach wouldn't be able to.

Edit: And just to add. It's not just the record. It's the way we're losing games, they way we look out on the court and even the way we've won some games. It's just ugly any way you look at it. I am of the belief all of that ugliness has its roots with George Karl.

I am not of that belief, and that is okay.

I think this team would become markedly worse with not only the lose of Karl but the stress, intense media blitz and organizational back step another interim coach would create and would gladly take your money.

Fair enough. I think it's clear that Karl has lost that locker room though and I don't think anyone would lose sleep over him gone, that's what I'm basing my belief on. And there's been enough of a media blitz over the whole situation and state of the franchise already that they'd be able to deal with some more articles..

[SacKingZZZ]

Do any of you remember the last offseason when the whole nba was taking a dump on our city because of the lack of stability. Just asking...

I know the loses are soul crushing after having hope in the preseason but firing Karl well only make it worse and you all know that. Some may say at this point that you have to get worse to get better. I'm of the belief that this unit should be given a season to work together at the very least.

Worse? Giving up is giving up. We'll know within the week or so if this is the start or the end. Players have called out the coach for a few weeks now, and now Karl is calling out the players and subtly the GM staff for not bringing in defensive minded players if you are to take his words about defensive players that way. This is either that last ditch hail mary coaching move to inspire the players or the sign of a coach getting some digs in for his players never really having his back. This situation has been toxic from day 1, I can't really see anyone being shocked that it didn't work out. Oh well, both sides just might be better apart than together.

Now, who is to blame? You could point the finger in multiple directions, but remember that big debate you and I had in preseason? Go read it again. The beginnings of inconsistency on many fronts started there and yes, truthfully, maybe even before that with the team Vlade put together considering the many ways Karl said he wanted his team to play.

We'll see if it's too late for the players to buy in, although it looks more and more like just a flawed scheme with this team, but even before they give up we've seen enough to know this isn't a good mixture with all fronts being considered. 3 games out of 8 doesn't mean jack to a veteran team who loses more games than they win. Especially with players who hate to lose. If this were a young developing team it's a completely different story, but it's not. This is now a team full of vets who know what a losing situation looks like.

Last chance for them to either check it, or check out.

In the end I don't think the Philly loss was as bad as it looked on paper. The Kings didn't mail it in, give Philly credit, they played a pretty good game and used many of coach Karls preferred sets against him. I mean much of the foundation of their dribble drive style from Browns staff last year is sitting on the Kings bench this year.

I respect your stick–to–itiveness as a fan, but yes, this can get much worse if they don't do anything before the real you know what hits the fan. You can't have a situation where you are forced to clean house from the coach on down to the players but if allowed, yes, things can get that bad. Losing a coach AND a star player or two means really, really bad things for many years moving forward.

[benchmobbin02]

We have won 12 games. 12-20, a winning percentage of 37.5% in what has been an utter disappointment of a season. I would put all my money on firing Karl not making this team any worse. Our roster is supremely more talented than that Philly roster as it's more talented than the teams below us and even some in front of us in the standings. Karl isn't getting anything out of this team that an interim head coach wouldn't be able to.

Edit: And just to add. It's not just the record. It's the way we're losing games, they way we look out on the court and even the way we've won some games. It's just ugly any way you look at it. I am of the belief all of that ugliness has its roots with George Karl.

I am not of that belief, and that is okay.

I think this team would become markedly worse with not only the lose of Karl but the stress, intense media blitz and organizational back step another interim coach would create and would gladly take your money.

Fair enough. I think it's clear that Karl has lost that locker room though and I don't think anyone would lose sleep over him gone, that's what I'm basing my belief on. And there's been enough of a media blitz over the whole situation and state of the franchise already that they'd be able to deal with some more articles..

There hasn't been anywhere near the media coverage currently that there was during the season last year when the coaching carousel was turning or during the offseason in the build up to the camp. Get real. They may be able to deal with more press but it will affect them worse than if there wasn't extra buzz on top of a coaching change.

I don't believe Karl has "lost" the locker room. I think that is the easy thing to say when anything is reported about the team off the court.

[City of Trees]

Vlade has a Kings FO image to repair. Firing Karl mid season may not be an option.


Edit: my preference would be an off season coaching move
Sent from my Z970 using Tapatalk

[SacKingZZZ]

Vlade has a Kings FO image to repair. Firing Karl mid season may not be an option.


Edit: my preference would be an off season coaching move
Sent from my Z970 using Tapatalk

Obviously Vlade has to call a meeting here and with the onus on that something has to change whether it's style oriented or personnel oriented, both player or staff. The players have been dropping hints about schemes, in basketball code that's what normal people call a cry for help.

If this doesn't start hitting pay dirt soon waiting might be the most damaging for 3 reasons:

1. The players buyout on the organization next: Rondo says no thanks in the summer, Cuz says he's probably not good for the Kings as much as they aren't for him. Trying to salvage any hope in signing free agents this summer lies strictly with wins and losses. If they stay where they are, heck even if they make a run at the 8 and end up victorious in the toilet bowl of bottom of the west, nobody for sure is going to be coming to Sac.
2. Player values go down. Cuz/Gay, your two stars, aren't having the greatest years and frustration with losing will only lead to more meltdowns. They can't let this fester too long because then if you have to blow it up you are looking at a sell low point.
3. Players can get stuck in a rut and will eventually turn on each other if allowed to stay there too long. Even bringing in a new approach might not matter if all sense of cohesion and chemistry is lost. Ben McLemore could write the book on how confidence can effect your game. Imagine a whole team feeling that way? Yes, it can get much worse.

Time is still ticking.

[benchmobbin02]

Vlade has a Kings FO image to repair. Firing Karl mid season may not be an option.


Edit: my preference would be an off season coaching move
Sent from my Z970 using Tapatalk

Obviously Vlade has to call a meeting here and with the onus on that something has to change whether it's style oriented or personnel oriented, both player or staff. The players have been dropping hints about schemes, in basketball code that's what normal people call a cry for help.

If this doesn't start hitting pay dirt soon waiting might be the most damaging for 3 reasons:

1. The players buyout on the organization next: Rondo says no thanks in the summer, Cuz says he's probably not good for the Kings as much as they aren't for him. Trying to salvage any hope in signing free agents this summer lies strictly with wins and losses. If they stay where they are, heck even if they make a run at the 8 and end up victorious in the toilet bowl of bottom of the west, nobody for sure is going to be coming to Sac.
2. Player values go down. Cuz/Gay, your two stars, aren't having the greatest years and frustration with losing will only lead to more meltdowns. They can't let this fester too long because then if you have to blow it up you are looking at a sell low point.
3. Players can get stuck in a rut and will eventually turn on each other if allowed to stay there too long. Even bringing in a new approach might not matter if all sense of cohesion and chemistry is lost. Ben McLemore could write the book on how confidence can effect your game. Imagine a whole team feeling that way? Yes, it can get much worse.

Time is still ticking.

All of the things you listed are possible consequences of a change as well.

Time is always ticking. We can't overreact.

[SacKingZZZ]

Vlade has a Kings FO image to repair. Firing Karl mid season may not be an option.


Edit: my preference would be an off season coaching move
Sent from my Z970 using Tapatalk

Obviously Vlade has to call a meeting here and with the onus on that something has to change whether it's style oriented or personnel oriented, both player or staff. The players have been dropping hints about schemes, in basketball code that's what normal people call a cry for help.

If this doesn't start hitting pay dirt soon waiting might be the most damaging for 3 reasons:

1. The players buyout on the organization next: Rondo says no thanks in the summer, Cuz says he's probably not good for the Kings as much as they aren't for him. Trying to salvage any hope in signing free agents this summer lies strictly with wins and losses. If they stay where they are, heck even if they make a run at the 8 and end up victorious in the toilet bowl of bottom of the west, nobody for sure is going to be coming to Sac.
2. Player values go down. Cuz/Gay, your two stars, aren't having the greatest years and frustration with losing will only lead to more meltdowns. They can't let this fester too long because then if you have to blow it up you are looking at a sell low point.
3. Players can get stuck in a rut and will eventually turn on each other if allowed to stay there too long. Even bringing in a new approach might not matter if all sense of cohesion and chemistry is lost. Ben McLemore could write the book on how confidence can effect your game. Imagine a whole team feeling that way? Yes, it can get much worse.

Time is still ticking.

All of the things you listed are possible consequences of a change as well.

Time is always ticking. We can't overreact.

True, but that's why if it gets any worse, they are almost guaranteed to happen. Karl has made some adjustments but if the best swing for this unit has already been swung change sooner than later is your only hope and that more than likely can't just be a style change. Not that Karl seems to keen on that anyway. When players stop believing in the system, you either get the right players for it, or get the right system for the players. The problem is the latter isn't likely to work if they've already tuned out the guy giving the orders. Paul Westphal finally had the right idea by switching to some triangle and more motion right before he got canned, the problem was the players had already stopped listening at that point.

[City of Trees]

Vlade has a Kings FO image to repair. Firing Karl mid season may not be an option.


Edit: my preference would be an off season coaching move
Sent from my Z970 using Tapatalk

Obviously Vlade has to call a meeting here and with the onus on that something has to change whether it's style oriented or personnel oriented, both player or staff. The players have been dropping hints about schemes, in basketball code that's what normal people call a cry for help.

If this doesn't start hitting pay dirt soon waiting might be the most damaging for 3 reasons:

1. The players buyout on the organization next: Rondo says no thanks in the summer, Cuz says he's probably not good for the Kings as much as they aren't for him. Trying to salvage any hope in signing free agents this summer lies strictly with wins and losses. If they stay where they are, heck even if they make a run at the 8 and end up victorious in the toilet bowl of bottom of the west, nobody for sure is going to be coming to Sac.
2. Player values go down. Cuz/Gay, your two stars, aren't having the greatest years and frustration with losing will only lead to more meltdowns. They can't let this fester too long because then if you have to blow it up you are looking at a sell low point.
3. Players can get stuck in a rut and will eventually turn on each other if allowed to stay there too long. Even bringing in a new approach might not matter if all sense of cohesion and chemistry is lost. Ben McLemore could write the book on how confidence can effect your game. Imagine a whole team feeling that way? Yes, it can get much worse.

Time is still ticking.

All of the things you listed are possible consequences of a change as well.

Time is always ticking. We can't overreact.

Man if you could only figure out how to bottle and sell all that optimism

Sent from my Z970 using Tapatalk

[benchmobbin02]

Obviously Vlade has to call a meeting here and with the onus on that something has to change whether it's style oriented or personnel oriented, both player or staff. The players have been dropping hints about schemes, in basketball code that's what normal people call a cry for help.

If this doesn't start hitting pay dirt soon waiting might be the most damaging for 3 reasons:

1. The players buyout on the organization next: Rondo says no thanks in the summer, Cuz says he's probably not good for the Kings as much as they aren't for him. Trying to salvage any hope in signing free agents this summer lies strictly with wins and losses. If they stay where they are, heck even if they make a run at the 8 and end up victorious in the toilet bowl of bottom of the west, nobody for sure is going to be coming to Sac.
2. Player values go down. Cuz/Gay, your two stars, aren't having the greatest years and frustration with losing will only lead to more meltdowns. They can't let this fester too long because then if you have to blow it up you are looking at a sell low point.
3. Players can get stuck in a rut and will eventually turn on each other if allowed to stay there too long. Even bringing in a new approach might not matter if all sense of cohesion and chemistry is lost. Ben McLemore could write the book on how confidence can effect your game. Imagine a whole team feeling that way? Yes, it can get much worse.

Time is still ticking.

All of the things you listed are possible consequences of a change as well.

Time is always ticking. We can't overreact.

True, but that's why if it gets any worse, they are almost guaranteed to happen. Karl has made some adjustments but if the best swing for this unit has already been swung change sooner than later is your only hope and that more than likely can't just be a style change. Not that Karl seems to keen on that anyway. When players stop believing in the system, you either get the right players for it, or get the right system for the players. The problem is the latter isn't likely to work if they've already tuned out the guy giving the orders. Paul Westphal finally had the right idea by switching to some triangle and more motion right before he got canned, the problem was the players had already stopped listening at that point.

But I don't believe the players have tuned him out. Karl will continue to grow with this team and they won't be perfect but they will be better than if he was canned and they go thru the interim process again and become the laughing stock of the league again. That is why they won't do that.

[jeffjtk1234]

All of the things you listed are possible consequences of a change as well.

Time is always ticking. We can't overreact.

True, but that's why if it gets any worse, they are almost guaranteed to happen. Karl has made some adjustments but if the best swing for this unit has already been swung change sooner than later is your only hope and that more than likely can't just be a style change. Not that Karl seems to keen on that anyway. When players stop believing in the system, you either get the right players for it, or get the right system for the players. The problem is the latter isn't likely to work if they've already tuned out the guy giving the orders. Paul Westphal finally had the right idea by switching to some triangle and more motion right before he got canned, the problem was the players had already stopped listening at that point.

But I don't believe the players have tuned him out. Karl will continue to grow with this team and they won't be perfect but they will be better than if he was canned and they go thru the interim process again and become the laughing stock of the league again. That is why they won't do that.

The quotes in the media and the body language on the court tell me that they are beginning to tune the coach out.

[SacKingZZZ]

They just lost to the WORST team at home. This will be the ultimate test as to whether or not they've stopped listening. Even if they have I expect a drumming of the Suns just for pride sake. But a brief moment of pride in a dysfunctional situation only takes you so far.

[Kings2013]

Skiles/Stevens are in the mold of the next coaches we need to look at. The Celtics/Magic do not have more veteran talent than we do. Replace old Karl with either and it's a difference

[codydaze]

I am not of that belief, and that is okay.

I think this team would become markedly worse with not only the lose of Karl but the stress, intense media blitz and organizational back step another interim coach would create and would gladly take your money.

Fair enough. I think it's clear that Karl has lost that locker room though and I don't think anyone would lose sleep over him gone, that's what I'm basing my belief on. And there's been enough of a media blitz over the whole situation and state of the franchise already that they'd be able to deal with some more articles..

There hasn't been anywhere near the media coverage currently that there was during the season last year when the coaching carousel was turning or during the offseason in the build up to the camp. Get real. They may be able to deal with more press but it will affect them worse than if there wasn't extra buzz on top of a coaching change.

I don't believe Karl has "lost" the locker room. I think that is the easy thing to say when anything is reported about the team off the court.

have you been under a rock during this season? Articles are being written left and right about the Karl-Cousins relationship, whether or not Rondo is helping, and the state of the franchise in general. The simple fact of the matter is you don't know what's going on in the organization, nor do I. What I do know, is that we are 13-20, have lost to the worst team in the league at home, and have looked like the worst team in the league ourselves many times throughout the year.