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Be Optimistic

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Re: Be Optimistic 

Post#41 » by bwgood77 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:53 pm

JMac1 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
JMac1 wrote:If they are not doing what the coach wants.....its the coaches fault!! Maybe that is Hornacek's system.


That's easy to argue, but if you coach a bunch of knuckleheads, then it makes it tough for any coach...plus, we have such an ever changing roster that it makes it even tougher to create chemistry.


If the team fails, it is the coaches fault; always has been always will be, period. Don't sign knuckleheads and don't play knuckleheads and sign players that fit, see Spurs and Patriots. If your coach isn't strong enough to get a Moss type player to listen, get rid of said coach for allowing Moss to be on the team or get rid of Moss.

You do a lot of taking up for Hornacek. I am all about getting the job done, not making excuses. Hornacek is pathetic in my book; I have seen enough.


My point is that roster construction is poor. You have a lot of decent players, but if McD insists on signing two driving point guards to be starters, then he better sign guys who will give them space to operate. He somewhat tried to address it with Telly, Leuer, and Aldridge, and hopefully he turns Morris into someone with better range (whether that be getting better from outside or fetching such player in a trade) that would help.

It's also a quite a bit easier task with high school kids then pros, who may revert to what is natural for them having played for years.
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Re: Be Optimistic 

Post#42 » by Revived » Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:53 pm

The always typical unwarranted offseason optimism....happens every damn year...then once season starts, reality hits.

Its good for nothing other than false hope.
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Re: Be Optimistic 

Post#43 » by saintEscaton » Thu Dec 31, 2015 11:01 pm

At least we have Jon Leuer. I was a hater and now I have been silenced by his new found greatness. He's definitely a franchise cornerstone and I will never question any of McD's moves every again.
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Re: Be Optimistic 

Post#44 » by AtheJ415 » Fri Jan 1, 2016 12:26 am

bwgood77 wrote:
JMac1 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
That's easy to argue, but if you coach a bunch of knuckleheads, then it makes it tough for any coach...plus, we have such an ever changing roster that it makes it even tougher to create chemistry.


If the team fails, it is the coaches fault; always has been always will be, period. Don't sign knuckleheads and don't play knuckleheads and sign players that fit, see Spurs and Patriots. If your coach isn't strong enough to get a Moss type player to listen, get rid of said coach for allowing Moss to be on the team or get rid of Moss.

You do a lot of taking up for Hornacek. I am all about getting the job done, not making excuses. Hornacek is pathetic in my book; I have seen enough.


My point is that roster construction is poor. You have a lot of decent players, but if McD insists on signing two driving point guards to be starters, then he better sign guys who will give them space to operate. He somewhat tried to address it with Telly, Leuer, and Aldridge, and hopefully he turns Morris into someone with better range (whether that be getting better from outside or fetching such player in a trade) that would help.

It's also a quite a bit easier task with high school kids then pros, who may revert to what is natural for them having played for years.


We have the talent to space the floor imo when we want to. It's just that Hornacek does not play those lineups.

Bledsoe
Knight
Booker (hell, even Warren this year with his improvement from 3)
Tele or Leuer
Leuer or Len

Those lineups can shoot. The problem is it doesn't defend, but you can mix and match a bit, and overall the team D should improve even if the individual skillset defensively doesn't through awareness as the season goes on, but that hasn't happened.

The problem with spacing though is we then play the old guys instead of that group, many of which are horrible shooters:

Markieff
Tucker
Price
Chandler

This makes life unnecessarily hard for our guards.
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Re: Be Optimistic 

Post#45 » by Damkac » Tue Jan 5, 2016 9:04 am

As bad as the team looks lately I don't think our situation is impossible to fix. A few moves would change Suns for better:
- Get Kieff's ass of the team
- Change Hornacek for the best possible coach
- Get the best possible defensive assistant
- Draft best possible player in the draft (we won't get top 3 pick but hopefully McD will do his best)
- During offseason sign some retired perimeter player who was great defender to mentor Knight, Booker and Warren how to defend
- Use cap space to sign some young players that can defend and have solid bbiq

The keepers are Booker, Warren, Len, Bledsoe and Knight (if you like him or hate, let's be honest McD is not going to trade him)
I would like to keep one or both of Leuer and Teletovic. But as a bench players not as starters.
I honestly don't know what to think about Chandler. I hated his signing at first, then I loved it, when we started sucking I wanted to trade him and tank, now I don't know if we shouldn't keep him. As I say in Len's thread Suns system makes centers looks like crap. Someone proposed trading for DAJ. He would be 20mpg 6pts 6 rebs 4pf player here. Maybe we should give Chandler chance with a better coach instead of trading him now when his value is so low.

Good draft choice, one or two good signing, better coach and we looks much better.

Bledsoe - FA/draft
Booker - Knight
Warren - FA/draft
FA/draft - Leuer/Tele
Chandler - Len
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Re: Be Optimistic 

Post#46 » by bwgood77 » Tue Jan 5, 2016 9:57 am

Damkac wrote:As bad as the team looks lately I don't think our situation is impossible to fix. A few moves would change Suns for better:
- Get Kieff's ass of the team
- Change Hornacek for the best possible coach
- Get the best possible defensive assistant
- Draft best possible player in the draft (we won't get top 3 pick but hopefully McD will do his best)
- During offseason sign some retired perimeter player who was great defender to mentor Knight, Booker and Warren how to defend
- Use cap space to sign some young players that can defend and have solid bbiq

The keepers are Booker, Warren, Len, Bledsoe and Knight (if you like him or hate, let's be honest McD is not going to trade him)
I would like to keep one or both of Leuer and Teletovic. But as a bench players not as starters.
I honestly don't know what to think about Chandler. I hated his signing at first, then I loved it, when we started sucking I wanted to trade him and tank, now I don't know if we shouldn't keep him. As I say in Len's thread Suns system makes centers looks like crap. Someone proposed trading for DAJ. He would be 20mpg 6pts 6 rebs 4pf player here. Maybe we should give Chandler chance with a better coach instead of trading him now when his value is so low.

Good draft choice, one or two good signing, better coach and we looks much better.

Bledsoe - FA/draft
Booker - Knight
Warren - FA/draft
FA/draft - Leuer/Tele
Chandler - Len


I somewhat agree. I'd much rather keep Leuer than Telly because of their difference in defense, particularly with the defensive struggles of Booker, Warren and Knight. If Knight dribbles, takes bad shots, and continues the high turnover rate, I'd move him to second unit. I would PROBABLY hang onto Tucker, provided, you play him primarily at the 4, alternating him with Leuer UNLESS we end up with Brewer and Jones, and rarely use him at the 3 because Booker could slide there when Warren sits. Though I would move Tucker if we could get something of value for him this year regardless. I wouldn't want him playing time to alter big minutes for Warren and Booker though, but moreso for a little insurance to potentially resign (though I know this will be unpopular here) IF AND ONLY IF we cannot find a PF in free agency, trade for one and especially if we can't keep Leuer, or even Telly, or potentially if we only keep one, because we'd lack PF depth.

I'd hang onto Chandler if he didn't have any trade value because I don't think cap space helps much. We can always dump guys like him in the summmer if we strike gold and some great FA says they will sign with us and we need some cap space, but we will probably have that cap space anyway. He's also the best insurance we have since Len is injury prone. Another reason to keep Tucker as a 4 if we don't find a good replacement is because Leuer can play 5, or possibly even Tucker against a small ball team like GS, where we play Bledsoe/Knight/Booker/Warren/Tucker.

Ideally we find better players all around and CAN move Tucker and Chandler though.

As for Hornacek, I seriously doubt he gets his option picked up and I could go either way here, because I think it is virtually impossible to be successful with constant roster turnover, injuries and disgruntled players due to front office moves. Frankly he's gotten a raw deal, but he has had some head scratching lineup rotations at times. I think good teams have continuity and more constant re-shuffling is never a recipe for success.

But if we had a great successor in place, I'd be fine moving on from Hornacek this summer. Personally I'd probably give him one more year with the team with a new team, without disgruntled players, having time to allow these players to develop chemistry and see what happens.

I think next year unless we get some unbelievably good coach, and that's certainly not Walton, Nash, Thibs, etc. I do like D'Antoni, but I don't think he would get a ton of this squad particularly in his first year, that we will not make the playoffs next year. We will likely be better either way though if we have a more stable team, no disgruntled players, and further playing time for Booker and Warren this year.

McD MIGHT be gone this year, particularly if Hornacek is, but if we fail to make the playoffs, next year, no matter who is coach, I think McD will be gone, and I'm not sure a new GM is the right move either, though I think he's put a bigger cloud over this team than Hornacek, despite having made a couple of solid picks in Warren and Booker.
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Re: Be Optimistic 

Post#47 » by Mulhollanddrive » Tue Jan 5, 2016 1:09 pm

Nice bump.

Best thing is the reason why teams win championships is because they lucked out on a superstar first.

So no matter who you don't like in our team or FO, they don't decide where ping pong balls land and what other teams pick.
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Re: Be Optimistic 

Post#48 » by bwgood77 » Tue Jan 5, 2016 4:27 pm

Well I just quoted a post that got deleted, but whatever was quoted was a very old post and I've repeatedly stated over the last couple of months what you mentioned that Knight's biggest problems are he shoots too much and doesn't pass enough. I've also mentioned he dribbles too much and many times doesn't look for teammates and just takes bad long 2 pointers.
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Re: Be Optimistic 

Post#49 » by Lillard2LA » Wed Jan 6, 2016 6:31 pm

If you are feeling down about how this season has gone, you can take a look back at the 1992-93 season at Valley of the Suns. Charles Barkley was handling business back then.

http://valleyofthesuns.com/2016/01/06/suns-fire-looking-back-1992-93-season/
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Re: Be Optimistic 

Post#50 » by Damkac » Wed Jan 6, 2016 9:23 pm

Everything this team needs are 2 good wings and a better coach (and healthy Bledsoe ofc)

My dream scenario:
Bledsoe/Knight
Booker/Bogdanovic
Batum/Warren
Simmons/Leuer
Chandler/Len

More realistic version: Bender instead of Simmons or Ingram at sf and FA pf

Who wouldn't like that roster? Super-young, deep, great size at every position, both lineups have good shooters and both starting wings are great passers so we don't need a pass-first pg ;)

Just how to convice Batum to sign here? :-?

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