GMATCallahan wrote:letsgosuns wrote:First off, if D'antoni really came back (I do not want him back), he would get rid of Bledsoe AND Knight. Neither player is the type of passing point point guard that D'antoni needs to run his offense.
Secondly, the bottom line is that what you just posted proves my point. Two things happen under D'antoni coached teams. Bad defense and no bench production. It is a staple of his coaching ability. The Suns had three extremely gifted defenders in the 06-07 starting lineup in Marion, Bell, and Thomas. Even Jones and to an extent Diaw off the bench were good defenders. Yet they were still a mediocre/middle of the pack defensive team. With players like Marion, Bell, and Thomas out there, you should be an elite defensive team.
The problem is not D'antoni's offense. It is his defense. You think he would ever start a guy like Andrew Bogut? A horrible offensive center. That guy does not like to shoot unless it is a wide open dunk. Kerr started him and the Warriors won the title. Because Kerr knows you need a top defense to win the championship. D'antoni just wants to outscore the opponent and not worry about stops. Wow the thought of this happening all over again where the Suns never got stops when it mattered in the playoffs is insane. I do not know what to even think anymore. Like I said the other day, this entire franchise is lost. Not just the coach is lost. The owner is lost.
... because a few good ("gifted" is stretching it outside of Marion) wing defenders does not necessarily make for a good (let alone elite) defense, not when the starting center is atrocious defensively and the starting point guard does not pressure the basketball much, if at all. Let us face the reality: Nash and Stoudemire constituted by far the best offensive pick-and-roll duo in the NBA at the time (in part because of how D'Antoni spread the floor around them), but they also probably amounted to the worst defensive pick-and-roll duo.
Also, Kurt Thomas did not usually start for the '06-'07 Suns (he started 13 regular season games that year), for the offense did not function in the same manner with a bigger lineup. Again, as I explained in the other thread, the overwhelming offense and Nash's historic success resulted from the unconventional lineups.
D'Antoni may not start Bogut—but then again, maybe he would, because Draymond Green passes like Amar'e Stoudemire (who totaled 1, yes, 1 assist in the entire 2007 Western Conference Semifinals versus San Antonio, and I again mean a total of 1, not an average) never could, and because Stephen Curry shoots the ball much more often than Nash. Thus Golden State's offensive energies are less discrete, and its dynamic is different, compared to Phoenix's offense a decade ago.
I never thought Amare was a center. Ever. He never should have been guarding the centers in the league. I always wondered what the Suns could have done if Steven Hunter was given more playing time. That guy was a great shot blocking center and very athletic. I went to so many games between 2004 and 2008 and sat extremely close to the court. I saw it in the 2005 playoffs. I remember a play where Quentin Richardson ended up guarding Robert Horry on a play in the fourth quarter of game 2 and he shot a three right over him like he was not even there. I remember the Spurs scored like 40 points or something in the fourth quarter of that game. The Suns under D'antoni flat out ignored having a good defensive system. Jalen Rose spoke about in-depth.
And like you said, Amare was a horrible defender. But it is made a million times worse when he is playing out of position. So when Nash is defending, he had no good defensive center to funnel his player to. Kenny Smith used to talk about how Bruce Bowen was one of the best funnelers in the league but it only worked because he had Duncan and the other Spurs big men behind him. Nash did not have that. Great defensive centers with little offensive skill would never play on D'antoni teams. Remember the Suns were the team that drafted Gortat and traded him to the Magic. Imagine if they had Gortat with Nash and Amare. Maybe they win a title.
Regardless, Magic Johnson was on so many shows bashing the hell out of D'antoni saying he does not teach defense and you will never win a championship if you do not play defense. Barkley even said the reason the Suns lost in 1993 was because they were not good enough to get stops when it mattered most. After that finals series, Jordan said "defense wins championships" in his press conference. Every year the team that wins the championship is a top defensive team. Does anyone think that Steph Curry is a great individual defender? I do not. Lots of Warriors fans say he cannot stop anyone. But their team defense is tops in the league. Team defense under D'antoni did not exist.
Btw, D'antoni was fired in New York when the Knicks were 18-24 and Woodson took over. Woodson finished the season 18-6 and the Knicks were able to win one game against the juggernaut Heat team with James, Wade, and Bosh. The following year the Knicks won 54 games and made the second round of the playoffs. D'antoni's win totals during his tenure in NY: 32, 29, 42, and 18. One season over .500 and it was just one game over .500.
Then with that all star Lakers team in 2012-13, he could only put together a record of 40-32 during his 72 games. Here is another telling stat. The year prior without Howard on the team, the Lakers were 13th best in defensive rating and were 41-25 under Mike Brown. Then with D'antoni and adding Howard, they dropped down to 20th best in the league. How is that possible. How can a team with Dwight Howard, Metta World Peace, Kobe Bryant, and Pau Gasol be such a terrible defensive team. They had multiple All-NBA defenders on the team. You cannot blame Nash's defense. He missed a big chunk of the season. So maybe it is because D'antoni teams do not play defense no matter who is on the roster. And of course the next year the Lakers were depleted and fell apart. D'antoni led them to a 27 win season and they were the 28th ranked defensive rated team.
Look at the defensive ratings of every team D'antoni ever coached:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/dantomi01c.html
Every single season his teams were in the bottom half of the league for defensive rating except two seasons. One in 06-07 where the Suns ranked 13th and when the Knicks ranked 5th the year he was fired. The Knicks were 5th because Woodson replaced D'antoni and changed the team's defensive philosophy and they finished that season 18-6 under him. So if you factor only seasons where D'antoni finished the season as the coach, that is 11 seasons. In 10 of 11 seasons, his teams were ranked in the bottom half of the league defensively. Furthermore, in his coaching career, he has never fielded a top ten defensive team where he was the coach for an entire season. How many championships has he won? Zero. I am gonna quote Jordan again. Defense wins championships. You guys want the Suns to win a championship one day? Do not hire D'antoni because defense wins championships. You guys want a gimmicky entertaining team that will never be good enough? Hire D'antoni. Just do not start complaining on here when the Suns lose the games that matter most under D'antoni because they cannot get stops.