PC Board OT thread

[Clyde Frazier]

Game tonight just illustrated why Boogie Cousins is the most frustrating player in the entire Association. Just has the ability to do anything and everything on the court. Can be completely dominating and then completely brain-dead. This guy should be one of the 5 best players in the league. He's that talented. I wonder if he can ever figure it out in that Sacramento mess.

I really try to give him the benefit of the doubt on the complaining and bad attitude, because to me it's overblown by people who just don't like the guy. Still think he got a raw deal with the mike malone firing, as they had developed a good relationship. That said, when he flipped out over zaza clearly stripping him cleanly, that was pretty sad. He didn't get hit, and instead of getting back on D, he whined like a child, which was just unwarranted. He has to figure it out at some point, or it will be borderline wasted talent.

[Texas Chuck]

Oh no question--I blame the Kings organization a lot for some of Boogie's issues. I mean ultimately he's responsible for his own actions, but that franchise has been horribly mismanaged and he had to think that when the Maloofs were gone things would get better, and in some ways its gotten ever worse.

The Malone firing was a joke on every level, but especially because your franchise player was bonding with the guy. And they have just made short-sighted hirings and even shorter-sighted personnel moves.

We talk a lot on this board about the situation KG in particular was in, but also guys like TMac, Admiral, etc. This guy has truly been in a no-win situation and with that horrible trade they made with Philly they can't even luck into a top draft pick because they either owe the pick to another team or Philly can swap with them. They have forfeited all their ping pong balls for 3 years.

All they can hope for is that WCS becomes a defensive stud who can play next to Cousins for big minutes(I have my doubts about that). Because they aren't going to lure any big free agents and they don't have any other guys on the roster with major trade value. It's horrible. For all the grief Philly has gotten for Hinkie and his "process" its teams like the Kings and the Wolves(tho they have gotten 2 young studs that I don't think even they can mess up) that are far far worse.

[Owly]

Oh no question--I blame the Kings organization a lot for some of Boogie's issues.

It does have to be said thought that he's got his own chunk of the blame. Not just the obvious, he's his own responsibility but it predates the Kings (and yeah he was young ....)

His talent was already obvious. His production was obvious and yet ...
Teams took Evan Turner and Wesley Johnson ahead of him.
Forget Turner. Some people imagined he was super NBA ready and thus could maybe have justified imagining a Brandon Roy upside (it wasn't there but, some people liked him). Wes Johnson. A "late-bloomer", turning 23 soon after the draft. Obviously KAAAHN, and they had bigs and whatnot but Cousin's character flags were so bad that a (really bad) NBA GM thought, "No, I think Wesley Johnson will contribute more to our franchise."

If Cousins didn't have baggage he would have went first (even if, hypothetically, lack of said baggage didn't improve his college play, which it would have done).

[MyUniBroDavis]

Game tonight just illustrated why Boogie Cousins is the most frustrating player in the entire Association. Just has the ability to do anything and everything on the court. Can be completely dominating and then completely brain-dead. This guy should be one of the 5 best players in the league. He's that talented. I wonder if he can ever figure it out in that Sacramento mess.

I really try to give him the benefit of the doubt on the complaining and bad attitude, because to me it's overblown by people who just don't like the guy. Still think he got a raw deal with the mike malone firing, as they had developed a good relationship. That said, when he flipped out over zaza clearly stripping him cleanly, that was pretty sad. He didn't get hit, and instead of getting back on D, he whined like a child, which was just unwarranted. He has to figure it out at some point, or it will be borderline wasted talent.

When's the last time someone has actually changed his mind over a player yelling at him? I mean, I understand why players do it, but I feel that arguing to the point where you are basically distracting yourself is useless.

(This is unrelated) Can I just say, in general, I don't understand why players go all crazy over hard fouls. I mean, I get that if they kind of do it on purpose, then yeah, I understand getting in their face. But I don't understand the logic of, if it was on purpose, "yeah, I'm gonna punch at him and get ejected" I realize if they basically clothesline your neck, then you have a right to get angry. And if it repeated (I had this one guy who literally jabbed my neck whenever I got close) then I understand retaliating. And I do understand getting in someone's face over it. Literally one team tried to yank other teams pants down for a "competitive advantage"

I mean, I recall that someone set a screen on Kidd if iirc, and kidd just elbowed him or something. Now, I understand that it's kind of like "wow look I'm tough" but I mean, they are all 20-40 years old, so why can't they just act mature about it? Some of the temper tantrums you see make it look like they are a bunch of toddlers tbh.

Otoh, I don't know why players who wrap someone's neck around cant just say a simple "sorry". (Like when Giannis I think tackled someone and just turned his back)
it's good for publicity, so I guess they don't want to look weak or anything. I understand that at times it is necessary, but fighting in the playoffs is basically like saying "oh, time to throw away my team's chances at winning so I look macho"

Otohoh, im completely fine with walking and shouting in someone's face.

[PaulieWal]

Game tonight just illustrated why Boogie Cousins is the most frustrating player in the entire Association. Just has the ability to do anything and everything on the court. Can be completely dominating and then completely brain-dead. This guy should be one of the 5 best players in the league. He's that talented. I wonder if he can ever figure it out in that Sacramento mess.

I really try to give him the benefit of the doubt on the complaining and bad attitude, because to me it's overblown by people who just don't like the guy. Still think he got a raw deal with the mike malone firing, as they had developed a good relationship. That said, when he flipped out over zaza clearly stripping him cleanly, that was pretty sad. He didn't get hit, and instead of getting back on D, he whined like a child, which was just unwarranted. He has to figure it out at some point, or it will be borderline wasted talent.

When's the last time someone has actually changed his mind over a player yelling at him? I mean, I understand why players do it, but I feel that arguing to the point where you are basically distracting yourself is useless.

(This is unrelated) Can I just say, in general, I don't understand why players go all crazy over hard fouls. I mean, I get that if they kind of do it on purpose, then yeah, I understand getting in their face. But I don't understand the logic of, if it was on purpose, "yeah, I'm gonna punch at him and get ejected" I realize if they basically clothesline your neck, then you have a right to get angry. And if it repeated (I had this one guy who literally jabbed my neck whenever I got close) then I understand retaliating. And I do understand getting in someone's face over it. Literally one team tried to yank other teams pants down for a "competitive advantage"

I mean, I recall that someone set a screen on Kidd if iirc, and kidd just elbowed him or something. Now, I understand that it's kind of like "wow look I'm tough" but I mean, they are all 20-40 years old, so why can't they just act mature about it? Some of the temper tantrums you see make it look like they are a bunch of toddlers tbh.

Otoh, I don't know why players who wrap someone's neck around cant just say a simple "sorry". (Like when Giannis I think tackled someone and just turned his back)
it's good for publicity, so I guess they don't want to look weak or anything. I understand that at times it is necessary, but fighting in the playoffs is basically like saying "oh, time to throw away my team's chances at winning so I look macho"

Otohoh, im completely fine with walking and shouting in someone's face.

It's more of a heat of the moment thing. WHenever you get hard fouled you very well know that you can't do anything but you still want to retaliate and get in the other player's face. I disagree that it means they are throwing temper tantrums or being immature.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I really try to give him the benefit of the doubt on the complaining and bad attitude, because to me it's overblown by people who just don't like the guy. Still think he got a raw deal with the mike malone firing, as they had developed a good relationship. That said, when he flipped out over zaza clearly stripping him cleanly, that was pretty sad. He didn't get hit, and instead of getting back on D, he whined like a child, which was just unwarranted. He has to figure it out at some point, or it will be borderline wasted talent.

When's the last time someone has actually changed his mind over a player yelling at him? I mean, I understand why players do it, but I feel that arguing to the point where you are basically distracting yourself is useless.

(This is unrelated) Can I just say, in general, I don't understand why players go all crazy over hard fouls. I mean, I get that if they kind of do it on purpose, then yeah, I understand getting in their face. But I don't understand the logic of, if it was on purpose, "yeah, I'm gonna punch at him and get ejected" I realize if they basically clothesline your neck, then you have a right to get angry. And if it repeated (I had this one guy who literally jabbed my neck whenever I got close) then I understand retaliating. And I do understand getting in someone's face over it. Literally one team tried to yank other teams pants down for a "competitive advantage"

I mean, I recall that someone set a screen on Kidd if iirc, and kidd just elbowed him or something. Now, I understand that it's kind of like "wow look I'm tough" but I mean, they are all 20-40 years old, so why can't they just act mature about it? Some of the temper tantrums you see make it look like they are a bunch of toddlers tbh.

Otoh, I don't know why players who wrap someone's neck around cant just say a simple "sorry". (Like when Giannis I think tackled someone and just turned his back)
it's good for publicity, so I guess they don't want to look weak or anything. I understand that at times it is necessary, but fighting in the playoffs is basically like saying "oh, time to throw away my team's chances at winning so I look macho"

Otohoh, im completely fine with walking and shouting in someone's face.

It's more of a heat of the moment thing. WHenever you get hard fouled you very well know that you can't do anything but you still want to retaliate and get in the other player's face. I disagree that it means they are throwing temper tantrums or being immature.

I mean,yeah I get that, but I feel that when it actually comes to blows then it's being immature, especially in the playoffs

Im totally fine with getting in other players faces. I'm not the best at phrasing it lol.

[PaulieWal]

I mean,yeah I get that, but I feel that when it actually comes to blows then it's being immature, especially in the playoffs

Im totally fine with getting in other players faces. I'm not the best at phrasing it lol.

But how many times players actually come to blows (RS or PS)? Almost never...

[SideshowBob]

So now that holidays/BO mania is over, what's the mood been on SAS now taking the all time SRS lead over GSW (granted Curry's missed some time)?

[Dr Spaceman]

So now that holidays/BO mania is over, what's the mood been on SAS now taking the all time SRS lead over GSW (granted Curry's missed some time)?

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1421052#start_here

Most are sticking with the established player. I'm not so sure considering SAS still has starters playing under 25 MPG and in general are far less inclined to give a damn about the regular season. For me the minutes thing is a big, big deal and while the Warriors don't play a ton of minute either, I think from 2-8 on the roster SAS has a rather large edge in player quality. When they tighten up their rotations in the playoffs they have several lineups they can go to that are running at like +20 this season, and a lot of those involve less than 3 starters.

I said earlier San An basically only has to draw even with the Warriors core lineup, because as it stands they're going to bleed when Curry leaves the game and they have to contend with Manu/Diaw. As it stands Golden State is going to really be banking on the strength of their top-end talent/death lineup, and as it stands I'm not convinced especially with Aldridge seeking to "get it" more lately. Plus the Spurs have something brewing of their own which is around a +30 in (Mills/Ginobili/Leonard/Diaw/Aldridge) although I haven't sat down with their lineups recently so don't kill me if they've fallen of.

EDIT: Wow just woke up from a nap and apparently I really like the phrase "as it stands"

[Clyde Frazier]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeSGallagher/status/684919634231988224[/tweet]

[ronnymac2]

So now that holidays/BO mania is over, what's the mood been on SAS now taking the all time SRS lead over GSW (granted Curry's missed some time)?

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1421052#start_here

Most are sticking with the established player. I'm not so sure considering SAS still has starters playing under 25 MPG and in general are far less inclined to give a damn about the regular season. For me the minutes thing is a big, big deal and while the Warriors don't play a ton of minute either, I think from 2-8 on the roster SAS has a rather large edge in player quality. When they tighten up their rotations in the playoffs they have several lineups they can go to that are running at like +20 this season, and a lot of those involve less than 3 starters.

I said earlier San An basically only has to draw even with the Warriors core lineup, because as it stands they're going to bleed when Curry leaves the game and they have to contend with Manu/Diaw. As it stands Golden State is going to really be banking on the strength of their top-end talent/death lineup, and as it stands I'm not convinced especially with Aldridge seeking to "get it" more lately. Plus the Spurs have something brewing of their own which is around a +30 in (Mills/Ginobili/Leonard/Diaw/Aldridge) although I haven't sat down with their lineups recently so don't kill me if they've fallen of.

EDIT: Wow just woke up from a nap and apparently I really like the phrase "as it stands"

The Spurs are interesting. I don't think their minutes distribution will change come playoff time, and if it does, it will only be because they smartly spammed the correct lineups in a small sample size of 4 or less opponents (28 or less games).

I think this is their optimal way to play games — playoffs or regular season. Upping the minutes of their "best players" not only is impractical from a conserve-aging-players perspective, but also is impractical from a best-chance-of-winning games perspective. To me, this is the best version of the Spurs.

In my opinion, the most important stat in basketball is minutes. The Spurs have literally mastered time.

[Ballerhogger]

so has anyone sent snacks to eastern oregon yet?

[Dr Positivity]

So now that holidays/BO mania is over, what's the mood been on SAS now taking the all time SRS lead over GSW (granted Curry's missed some time)?

I'm confused by the Spurs, how did they get nearly 7 points better defensively this year, and by what unknown black magic in a league where Draymond Green is as valuable as he is, does getting a Mr. midrange in Lamarcus Aldridge end up the big move to having one of the best seasons of all time? And Spurs point differential is even giving a way few points on Danny Green missed shots compared to his normal self?

[ronnymac2]

So now that holidays/BO mania is over, what's the mood been on SAS now taking the all time SRS lead over GSW (granted Curry's missed some time)?

I'm confused by the Spurs, how did they get nearly 7 points better defensively this year, and by what unknown black magic in a league where Draymond Green is as valuable as he is, does getting a Mr. midrange in Lamarcus Aldridge end up the big move to having one of the best seasons of all time? And Spurs point differential is even giving a way few points on Danny Green missed shots compared to his normal self?

In this era of lineup optimization, portable high USG% offensive players who allow others to specialize — or optimize their talents — are the key. I know Aldridge takes the inefficient mid-range shot, but he's low turnover, his mid-range shot can be fed with low risk passes from other players, and he spreads the floor. Basically, as long as he doesn't chuck THAT badly, he's helping the team by increasing the ORTG of the 75%USG of the other 4 players on the court. Aldridge can also soak up minutes pretty well so that others can have their minutes controlled better, which is perfect for the Spurs.

Aldridge is also an underrated defender. He's not an anchor, but he's like a poor man's KG, which is still nice to have. He's a nice additive piece.

I think Aldridge and Patty Mills are a match made in heaven. I'd love to see lineup data when those two share the court. That to me screams low-turnover, high eFG% monster offense just built around 15-20 minutes of those two.

[E-Balla]

So now that holidays/BO mania is over, what's the mood been on SAS now taking the all time SRS lead over GSW (granted Curry's missed some time)?

I'm confused by the Spurs, how did they get nearly 7 points better defensively this year, and by what unknown black magic in a league where Draymond Green is as valuable as he is, does getting a Mr. midrange in Lamarcus Aldridge end up the big move to having one of the best seasons of all time? And Spurs point differential is even giving a way few points on Danny Green missed shots compared to his normal self?

Mr. Midrange? How about Mr. Has-Anchored-A-2nd-Ranked-Offense? Of course adding one of the top 5 bigs in the game would vastly improve the team. This boxscore watching on the PC Board is getting out of hand (not specifically you Mufasa).

[Dr Spaceman]

So now that holidays/BO mania is over, what's the mood been on SAS now taking the all time SRS lead over GSW (granted Curry's missed some time)?

I'm confused by the Spurs, how did they get nearly 7 points better defensively this year, and by what unknown black magic in a league where Draymond Green is as valuable as he is, does getting a Mr. midrange in Lamarcus Aldridge end up the big move to having one of the best seasons of all time? And Spurs point differential is even giving a way few points on Danny Green missed shots compared to his normal self?

In this era of lineup optimization, portable high USG% offensive players who allow others to specialize — or optimize their talents — are the key. I know Aldridge takes the inefficient mid-range shot, but he's low turnover, his mid-range shot can be fed with low risk passes from other players, and he spreads the floor. Basically, as long as he doesn't chuck THAT badly, he's helping the team by increasing the ORTG of the 75%USG of the other 4 players on the court. Aldridge can also soak up minutes pretty well so that others can have their minutes controlled better, which is perfect for the Spurs.

Aldridge is also an underrated defender. He's not an anchor, but he's like a poor man's KG, which is still nice to have. He's a nice additive piece.

I think Aldridge and Patty Mills are a match made in heaven. I'd love to see lineup data when those two share the court. That to me screams low-turnover, high eFG% monster offense just built around 15-20 minutes of those two.

To wit: Mills/Aldridge: +21.3 net rating. Ginobili/Aldridge: +24.6

To be fair, though, this pales in comparison to what lineups with Leonard and one of the bench trio are doing:
Diaw/Leonard: +23.6
Ginobili/Leonard: +25.4
Mills/Leonard: +28.2

Mills/Ginobili/Diaw: +19.2

Mills/Ginobili/Diaw/Leonard: +33.7
Mills/Ginobili/Diaw/Aldridge: +27.2

I've been tracking the 5 man unit of the bench trio (Mills/Ginobili/Diaw) plus Leonard and Aldridge since the beginning of the season since right away it showed "death lineup" potential. It's now the Spurs second most used lineup with 73 total minutes logged.
Net Rating: 36.7
Off rating: 123.1
Def rating: 86.5

That lineup has a TS% of 64.

I've been telling people all season teams are not ready for the Spurs. When your chemistry is that far advanced and you have literal game-breaking lineups sitting on your bench waiting to be deployed, how can you counter that?

I've seen people try to argue that "depth" doesn't matter as much in the playoffs, and it really makes no sense to me. San Antonio has 9 spectacular NBA players, and designations of "starter" and "reserve" don't freaking matter. They are the most talented and chemistry-rich group of basketball players in the league, and virtually any combination you can put them in is raining death right now.

And Popovich being the evil genius that he is, I'm predicting a lot of 14-2 runs when an opposing team's star takes a breather. He's already messing with the "Ginobili comes in when your star sits" and it's paying dividends. I can't wait to see this team in the playoffs.

[bondom34]

So did I miss something that Kyrie is suddenly better than Westbrook?

[Dr Spaceman]

So did I miss something that Kyrie is suddenly better than Westbrook?

Come on you know that dude's a troll. Kyrie has played 7 games this season and he's been garbage in 4 of them and only great in one. Westbrook was comfortably better last season and unless Kyrie has dramatically improved this season that gap has substantially increased.

For me:
1. Curry

2-4. Kawhi/Westbrook/Bron in some order





15-20. Kyrie, until he has shown enough to prove otherwise

[bondom34]

So did I miss something that Kyrie is suddenly better than Westbrook?

Come on you know that dude's a troll. Kyrie has played 7 games this season and he's been garbage in 4 of them and only great in one. Westbrook was comfortably better last season and unless Kyrie has dramatically improved this season that gap has substantially increased.

For me:
1. Curry

2-4. Kawhi/Westbrook/Bron in some order





15-20. Kyrie, until he has shown enough to prove otherwise

I know, I'm just pissed now and haven't had my coffee yet .

I'm more surprised that there's a non-troll who seems to agree w/ him, even if a Cavs fan.

[Texas Chuck]

I've seen people try to argue that "depth" doesn't matter as much in the playoffs, and it really makes no sense to me.

Well the arguments for why depth doesn't matter as much in the playoffs remain valid. Longer breaks between games and longer timeouts during games. It does mean your best players can play more minutes which means for teams without quality depth they benefit from it.

For a team like the Spurs that likes to play lots of guys and not extend a ton of minutes to anyone(tho I expect Kawhi's minutes to go up notably in the PS) it certainly doesn't hurt them either. Especially since Mr. Duncan will play more minutes in the playoffs. In other words, you can continue to play a ton of guys and spread the minutes out in the playoffs if you want. But if you are a top heavy team like the Thunder, Clippers, Rockets--well I think they obviously benefit.

The Spurs are an exception to this notion imo, not a reason to dismiss it.