Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[Jcool0]

I'd say the Bulls are 3rd most popular in this town. Baseball is still the 2nd most popular sport in the country after football. Basketball is in 3rd place. And the Bulls are 3rd place in this city, unfortunately.

If you think that's bad though, think how the Blackhawks FO must feel. They're winning multiple championships and are still 4th

Bears: Averaging a 23.6 rating in Chicago. Franchise Value: 2.4 billion.

Comcast TV ratings:

Bulls - 2015 - 4.71. Franchise value: $2 billion

Blackhawks - 2015 - 4.3. Franchise Value: $925 million

Cubs - 2015- 3.32. Franchise Value: $1.8 billion

White Sox - 2015 - 0.82. Franchise Value: $526 million.

[blumeany]

In terms of Chicago sports relevance, the Bulls are easily in 4th behind the Bears, Hawks, and Cubs. A big part of that is Derrick Rose. He's just not likeable. He's shot his public perception in the foot dozens of times over the last few years.

[Ice Man]

In terms of Chicago sports relevance, the Bulls are easily in 4th behind the Bears, Hawks, and Cubs. A big part of that is Derrick Rose. He's just not likeable. He's shot his public perception in the foot dozens of times over the last few years.

Not sure about the Blackhawks. They are huge for a hockey team but hockey is something a niche sport. At any rate, the Bulls are bigger overseas than at home. In China, if you say "Chicago" to a young male he will respond "Chicago Bulls!" Probably won't know anything else about Chicago, but that much he knows.

[Bomba Navarro]

In terms of Chicago sports relevance, the Bulls are easily in 4th behind the Bears, Hawks, and Cubs. A big part of that is Derrick Rose. He's just not likeable. He's shot his public perception in the foot dozens of times over the last few years.

Not sure about the Blackhawks. They are huge for a hockey team but hockey is something a niche sport. At any rate, the Bulls are bigger overseas than at home. In China, if you say "Chicago" to a young male he will respond "Chicago Bulls!" Probably won't know anything else about Chicago, but that much he knows.

It's pretty much the same in Europe. Key words: Chicago Bulls, Michael Jordan, Al Capone.

On the other side, don't ask about the Bears, the Blackhawks, the Cubs or the White Sox. Hell, I bet the amount of people who follow college basketball in my homeland is on par with the amount of people who follow American football, so even a meh program like Illinois is bigger than the Bears. Let alone the Hawks or the Cubs/Sox. Hardly anybody there follows ice hockey or baseball.

[EastBayFJ]

I haven't made much comment on this season to date , however , Jimmy Butler's performance over the last few weeks has been beastly.

The manner in which he went about things at the time by calling out The Mayor were polarising but he has increased his walk and decreased his talk to cement his legitimate status as the Bulls #1 Alpha Dog.

The Mayor has been very Mayorial in showing incredible strength of character to remain calm and poised in how he has handled himself through this period - which includes , from my observation , showing an ability to be a facilitative conduit between front office and the players.

Humility can be galvanising.

On Hoiberg .....and I am not sure if it has already been raised , but outside of the fact that it's not in his nature to be as animated and intense as Thibodeau.....there is also a very clear personal reason as to why he is so seemingly low key and calm - the guy has had major heart surgery .

I wonder if Jimmy Butler in the initial instance considered this when he expressed his frustration toward Hoiberg.

In any which way it would now appear that the Fire of Butler and the Ice of Hoiberg are finding a way to not only co-exist but perhaps are experiencing a new level of growth in their relationship borne out of better understanding and respect.

[Rerisen]

In any which way it would now appear that the Fire of Butler and the Ice of Hoiberg are finding a way to not only co-exist but perhaps are experiencing a new level of growth in their relationship borne out of better understanding and respect.

It's an interesting idea that with the void of Thibs as the de factor intensity leader of the team, someone needed to step up and fill that void - and that someone is Jimmy Butler. The very guy that still talks to Thibs.

That's not a knock on Hoiberg, there are fiery coaches and calm coaches, and at his best potential Fred could be a zen type coach that keeps the team calm and poised. But you also do need that fire, and with the decline in ability and role of Noah, hopefully Jimmy can inspire the team in that way while also being its best player.

[EastBayFJ]

Yeah. Agree.

Phil was a facilitative type leader while leaving the outwardly manifestation of aggression ( in playing style and attitude ) to MJ

For so many years we have had to rely on firebrands like Skiles and Thibodeau because we haven't had it within our playing personnel , or if we did have it , with Joakim Noah ( as fine a player as he was in his prime ) he wasn't a Top 10 talent in the league and a legitimate game changer.

In my view the best outcome is when you have your Alpha player lead and dominate with his actions ( and very occasionally his words.....and I mean very occasionally ) and your Coach facilitate with a cool hand

[RedBulls23]

In any which way it would now appear that the Fire of Butler and the Ice of Hoiberg are finding a way to not only co-exist but perhaps are experiencing a new level of growth in their relationship borne out of better understanding and respect.

It's an interesting idea that with the void of Thibs as the de factor intensity leader of the team, someone needed to step up and fill that void - and that someone is Jimmy Butler. The very guy that still talks to Thibs.

That's not a knock on Hoiberg, there are fiery coaches and calm coaches, and at his best potential Fred could be a zen type coach that keeps the team calm and poised. But you also do need that fire, and with the decline in ability and role of Noah, hopefully Jimmy can inspire the team in that way while also being its best player.

Multiple reports have stated that Jimmy was also done with Thibs coaching last year. I don't think Thibs has anything to do with this, so it's irrelevant that Jimmy talks to him.

I think Hoiberg needs to get more credit here as well. After the stuff that happened with Jimmy going to the media, I think he handled it really well (with the support and help of Pax). He could have lost the team, but found a way to get the team to play together. He is a big part of that.

[Rerisen]

Multiple reports have stated that Jimmy was also done with Thibs coaching last year. I don't think Thibs has anything to do with this, so it's irrelevant that Jimmy talks to him.

I think he has to do with it not in the sense that Jimmy wants Thibs back, but in the sense that since he was fired there has been a leadership void, exactly the thing Jimmy spoke up about.

Before Rose got hurt, him and Thibs had a united front as far as leading the team, and that filtered down to bringing everyone in line. I think Jimmy in his own ham-handed way of asking to be coached harder was volunteering to be that guy for this era's team, to where he and the coach, Fred, get on the same page about directing this team. So far seems like a success after the rocky initiation.

[samwana]

Multiple reports have stated that Jimmy was also done with Thibs coaching last year. I don't think Thibs has anything to do with this, so it's irrelevant that Jimmy talks to him.

I think he has to do with it not in the sense that Jimmy wants Thibs back, but in the sense that since he was fired there has been a leadership void, exactly the thing Jimmy spoke up about.

Before Rose got hurt, him and Thibs had a united front as far as leading the team, and that filtered down to bringing everyone in line. I think Jimmy in his own ham-handed way of asking to be coached harder was volunteering to be that guy for this era's team, to where he and the coach, Fred, get on the same page about directing this team. So far seems like a success after the rocky initiation.

It's a lot better when they fight to come together than when they just don't care and play to their own agenda.
I like Jimmy speaking up.

[RedBulls23]

Multiple reports have stated that Jimmy was also done with Thibs coaching last year. I don't think Thibs has anything to do with this, so it's irrelevant that Jimmy talks to him.

I think he has to do with it not in the sense that Jimmy wants Thibs back, but in the sense that since he was fired there has been a leadership void, exactly the thing Jimmy spoke up about.

Before Rose got hurt, him and Thibs had a united front as far as leading the team, and that filtered down to bringing everyone in line. I think Jimmy in his own ham-handed way of asking to be coached harder was volunteering to be that guy for this era's team, to where he and the coach, Fred, get on the same page about directing this team. So far seems like a success after the rocky initiation.

Thibs wasn't a leader last year...or certainly the team wasn't following him. So the void has been there for a while, if anything. The void started with Noah's injury it seems.

And yeah, the episode certainly did get Jimmy and Fred on the same page (with Fred also making lineup changes and schematic changes), but that was something worked out between themselves and with the help and guidance of Pax. That's something Thibs never would have allowed or accepted (or been open to any type of changes). So again, big credit to Hoiberg.

[Rerisen]

Thibs wasn't a leader last year...or certainly the team wasn't following him. So the void has been there for a while, if anything. The void started with Noah's injury it seems.

And yeah, the episode certainly did get Jimmy and Fred on the same page (with Fred also making lineup changes and schematic changes), but that was something worked out between themselves and with the help and guidance of Pax. That's something Thibs never would have allowed or accepted (or been open to any type of changes). So again, big credit to Hoiberg.

Well yeah the void started sometime last year, not helped by the FO leaks. But it continued right on into this year till all the dust settled from Jimmy's comments.

It did seem like the whole episode actually gave Fred some cover to slip some lineup changes in while everyone was talking about the comments.

[bentheredengthat]

Over the past few years we have seen that the players, coaches, and FO of this organization tend to be emotional and proud and right on the edge of exacerbating certain situations instead of tamping down and moving on. This is ok though, you need emotions and pride to be the best of the best in professional sports.

But add a proud stubborn coach to the mix and fireworks will ensue.

Hoiberg's leadership style and personality seems to me has calmed the waters just enough to keep the boat from rocking, while allowing the players and FO to keep the competitive edge required to compete. Doesn't fit the metaphor, but the Mayor is mayoring.

Couple that with the fact that Butler's ascendancy seems to have taken the focus and pressure off D Rose, while simultaneously motivating D Rose to contribute to the team dynamic as opposed to focusing on his individual comeback.

The result is that players like Pau and Niko have bought in, starting to do all the little things that must be done individually to take the team to the next level. Typical team dynamics seem to be following where lower tiered players by in and will do whatever it takes to fit within the greater team dynamic.

Anyways enough blathering. Long story short, I really like what I'm seeing and am enjoying watching the Bulls again.

[keithmad42]

really amazing how well they played since calling out the coach publicly. sometimes teams need a wake up call. great leaders know exactly what to do and when to do it. you can't argue with the results Jimmy got. Incredibly strategic mind at work here....

Well actually after Jimmy's comments the Bulls lost 2 of the next 4 games and Butler played his worst 4 games of the season. Now that they got back on a roll all kinds of media outlets and posters are crediting him primarily.

In the 4 games after the comments Butlers stats:
26 for 58 overall 45%
4 for 17 from 3 - 24%
21 assists and 12 turnovers
Net +/- for the 4 games -21

Now after that stretch he is playing out of his mind. I will always be a fan and supporter of Jimmy's but his comments are not the reason he and the Bulls really started playing well 12 days after the comments were made. I credit Paxson, Hoiberg, and the collective team effort at putting the ill-advised comments behind them for this stretch of wins as well as Jimmy getting out of his funk and playing terrific after a timely elbow.

[EastBayFJ]

I sort of agree Keith . Jimmy's comments , whilst raw and unpolished ....hell....maybe even immature.... forced the issue out into the open . And yes from that point all have done a good job of keeping their sh*t tight and commencing to build their own Jack Burns Circle of Trust

Pax, Mayor Fred , and Jimmy

I don't specifically know but it feels to me that Pau has played a deft hand in all of this as well

So far so good

[pb-ceo]

really amazing how well they played since calling out the coach publicly. sometimes teams need a wake up call. great leaders know exactly what to do and when to do it. you can't argue with the results Jimmy got. Incredibly strategic mind at work here....

Well actually after Jimmy's comments the Bulls lost 2 of the next 4 games and Butler played his worst 4 games of the season. Now that they got back on a roll all kinds of media outlets and posters are crediting him primarily.

In the 4 games after the comments Butlers stats:
26 for 58 overall 45%
4 for 17 from 3 - 24%
21 assists and 12 turnovers
Net +/- for the 4 games -21

Now after that stretch he is playing out of his mind. I will always be a fan and supporter of Jimmy's but his comments are not the reason he and the Bulls really started playing well 12 days after the comments were made. I credit Paxson, Hoiberg, and the collective team effort at putting the ill-advised comments behind them for this stretch of wins as well as Jimmy getting out of his funk and playing terrific after a timely elbow.

Your 4 game measurement period is completely arbitrary. But you know that.

[keithmad42]

really amazing how well they played since calling out the coach publicly. sometimes teams need a wake up call. great leaders know exactly what to do and when to do it. you can't argue with the results Jimmy got. Incredibly strategic mind at work here....

Well actually after Jimmy's comments the Bulls lost 2 of the next 4 games and Butler played his worst 4 games of the season. Now that they got back on a roll all kinds of media outlets and posters are crediting him primarily.

In the 4 games after the comments Butlers stats:
26 for 58 overall 45%
4 for 17 from 3 - 24%
21 assists and 12 turnovers
Net +/- for the 4 games -21

Now after that stretch he is playing out of his mind. I will always be a fan and supporter of Jimmy's but his comments are not the reason he and the Bulls really started playing well 12 days after the comments were made. I credit Paxson, Hoiberg, and the collective team effort at putting the ill-advised comments behind them for this stretch of wins as well as Jimmy getting out of his funk and playing terrific after a timely elbow.

Your 4 game measurement period is completely arbitrary. But you know that.

The length of the period is arbitrary but the the period is not, it is the first 4 games after the comments were made. The comments that many posters and media say spurred on the 6 game streak and got them playing with more effort. I specifically said after those first 4 he starts playing out of his mind (as in very well). But the point was that after the comments were made the Bulls and Jimmy Butler specifically were not playing at a high level so the notion that they responded to those comments and immediately turned things around is factually incorrect.

[Proven_Winner]

In terms of Chicago sports relevance, the Bulls are easily in 4th behind the Bears, Hawks, and Cubs. A big part of that is Derrick Rose. He's just not likeable. He's shot his public perception in the foot dozens of times over the last few years.

Come on man you can't just throw it on Derrick. People still look at him as a humble dude. People hate his decision not personality. He's. Still like able. You have to remember not everyone is ungrateful to the fact that without him we probably still say that the baby Bulls were the best team since MJ. The dude made Chicago and still makes us relevant in Chicago and the nba. No matter how bad he plays ESPN is putting his face on that front page section when talking about the Bulls.

The things he does for the community is way more important than the things he says to the basketball media. Those are things you shouldn't even care about honestly. Outside of hardcore basketball fans I never heard a living soul in this city say they don't like Derrick.

[pb-ceo]

Well actually after Jimmy's comments the Bulls lost 2 of the next 4 games and Butler played his worst 4 games of the season. Now that they got back on a roll all kinds of media outlets and posters are crediting him primarily.

In the 4 games after the comments Butlers stats:
26 for 58 overall 45%
4 for 17 from 3 - 24%
21 assists and 12 turnovers
Net +/- for the 4 games -21

Now after that stretch he is playing out of his mind. I will always be a fan and supporter of Jimmy's but his comments are not the reason he and the Bulls really started playing well 12 days after the comments were made. I credit Paxson, Hoiberg, and the collective team effort at putting the ill-advised comments behind them for this stretch of wins as well as Jimmy getting out of his funk and playing terrific after a timely elbow.

Your 4 game measurement period is completely arbitrary. But you know that.

The length of the period is arbitrary but the the period is not, it is the first 4 games after the comments were made. The comments that many posters and media say spurred on the 6 game streak and got them playing with more effort. I specifically said after those first 4 he starts playing out of his mind (as in very well). But the point was that after the comments were made the Bulls and Jimmy Butler specifically were not playing at a high level so the notion that they responded to those comments and immediately turned things around is factually incorrect.

put any measurement period you want on it. the team came together after those comments. nicely done jimmy jam.

[Mbrahv0528]

I'd say the Bulls are 3rd most popular in this town. Baseball is still the 2nd most popular sport in the country after football. Basketball is in 3rd place. And the Bulls are 3rd place in this city, unfortunately.

If you think that's bad though, think how the Blackhawks FO must feel. They're winning multiple championships and are still 4th

Bears: Averaging a 23.6 rating in Chicago. Franchise Value: 2.4 billion.

Comcast TV ratings:

Bulls - 2015 - 4.71. Franchise value: $2 billion

Blackhawks - 2015 - 4.3. Franchise Value: $925 million

Cubs - 2015- 3.32. Franchise Value: $1.8 billion

White Sox - 2015 - 0.82. Franchise Value: $526 million.

Nice, just as I suspected and in the order I assumed. Bulls are #2 in Chicago and only because football is so damn huge in America.