Drummond Value

[Snakebites]

Wait a minute....people think Sacramento would need to add value to Cousins to trade him for Drummond straight up? Cousins so far superior on offense it more than makes up the difference on defense. And rebounding is fairly close. I'll give the attitude issues. We all know that is a risk with Cousins.

But in no way would, or should, the Kings add picks. Especially not for a guy who is going to be getting a Max deal this summer.

This isn't a knock on Drummond. I'd take him in a heartbeat. But he's getting a Max contract and Cousins is locked up for at least a couple more years on a lower number. That has to be factored in.

Rebounding isn't close - Drummond is dominant in this area.

Rebounding isn't remotely close.

Neither is level of personal risk. Cousins is a loose cannon and he's shooting at a 43% clip this year.

I would not deal Drummond for Cousins straight up. If the Kings don't want to add value to the deal, fine. But if I'm the Pistons I'm not doing it straight up.

Is Cousins a more talented player than Drummond? Yeah. Definitely. But his baggage brings his value down considerably.

[theBigLip]

DET will want extra value to trade Drummond for Cousins ... and they're right to.

SAC will want extra value to trade Cousins for Drummond ... and they're right to.

These two are, IMHO, hands down, the top two centers in the league already, and they're the ripe old ages of 25 and 22. It's a noble effort by ORL to sneak into the deal and try to steal one of 'em with some of their assets (which I grant you are good ones), but it just aint gonna fly; the cost for either Drummond or Cousins is just too prohibitively high at this point.

Thank you all for the positive criticism, and not just throwing smart ass remarks around to make your point.

A noble effort. Cousins & Drummond are enormous assets to their teams. Getting Sacramento involved is a mistake, so perhaps you could deal for Drummond alone. You may need to get a team with salary involved to balance it out. That team would also have to be compensated. Here is one with Brooklyn. Salaries should work.

Orlando Out: Nikola Vucevic, Victor Oladipo, Aaron Gordon, Mario Hezonja, Jason Smith, one or more 1st picks, all the cash available
Orlando In: Joe Johnson and Andre Drummond

Brooklyn Out: Joe Johnson
Brooklyn In: Joel Anthony, Steve Blake, Jodie Meeks, Brandon Jennings, Ersan Ilyasova or Aron Baynes, Jason Smith, probably a 1st pick from Orlando as compensation too, cash from Orlando to pay off some of the contracts.

Detroit Out: Steve Blake, Joel Anthony, Jodie Meeks, Brandon Jennings, Ersan Ilyasova or Aron Baynes, and Andre Drummond
Detroit In: Nikola Vucevic, Victor Oladipo, Aaron Gordon, Mario Hezonja, Orlando 1st pick

Brooklyn will have to dump 5 roster pieces when they are already likely about to buy out Joe Johnson anyhow (if the season continues as it does). The other players may be picked up on waivers though.

If this doesn't look like a good deal for Orlando, then it should be just about right. That's how much Drummond is worth.

My gut says Drummond isn't getting traded for anything less than LeBron, but the above trade seems interesting. That is basically a full starting 5 (although very young). The pick would be late lottery, so...

PG: Jackson, Oladipo, Dinwiddie
SG: KCP, Oladipo, Hezonja
SF: Morris, Johnson, Hezonja
PF: Ilyasova, Gordon
C: Vucevic, Anthony

That's a solid, young bench except for PG and C. If Orlando sucked a bit more so it would be a top 5 pick (with lottery winning potential), it would be more tempting, but I guess still have to say "no" from Detroit. Good try though.

[Patsfan1081]

Wait a minute....people think Sacramento would need to add value to Cousins to trade him for Drummond straight up? Cousins so far superior on offense it more than makes up the difference on defense. And rebounding is fairly close. I'll give the attitude issues. We all know that is a risk with Cousins.

But in no way would, or should, the Kings add picks. Especially not for a guy who is going to be getting a Max deal this summer.

This isn't a knock on Drummond. I'd take him in a heartbeat. But he's getting a Max contract and Cousins is locked up for at least a couple more years on a lower number. That has to be factored in.

Rebounding isn't close - Drummond is dominant in this area.

Rebounding isn't remotely close.

Neither is level of personal risk. Cousins is a loose cannon and he's shooting at a 43% clip this year.

I would not deal Drummond for Cousins straight up. If the Kings don't want to add value to the deal, fine. But if I'm the Pistons I'm not doing it straight up.

Is Cousins a more talented player than Drummond? Yeah. Definitely. But his baggage brings his value down considerably.

I don't understand the baggage issue, he seems like someone who's upset with losing, but he isn't a distraction off the court. I think Drummond would be great for a team in its building stage but could be a liability for a playoff contender. Drummonds free throw shooting stands out as the biggest issue to me among the two.

[DocRI]

You know what this debate reminds me of (and Bondom, you should appreciate this!)? A couple of years ago, when people debated whether OKC should trade Westbrook & additional assets for CP3. No matter who you rank as #1 and who you rank as #2, they're clearly the two most valuable Cs in the league and in the end you have to ask yourself, why? There's not a substantial enough difference in value for either side to add assets to make a swap, so debating who needs to add value is pointless.

[theBigLip]

Rebounding isn't close - Drummond is dominant in this area.

Rebounding isn't remotely close.

Neither is level of personal risk. Cousins is a loose cannon and he's shooting at a 43% clip this year.

I would not deal Drummond for Cousins straight up. If the Kings don't want to add value to the deal, fine. But if I'm the Pistons I'm not doing it straight up.

Is Cousins a more talented player than Drummond? Yeah. Definitely. But his baggage brings his value down considerably.

I don't understand the baggage issue, he seems like someone who's upset with losing, but he isn't a distraction off the court. I think Drummond would be great for a team in its building stage but could be a liability for a playoff contender. Drummonds free throw shooting stands out as the biggest issue to me among the two.

Come on, serious baggage issue - he's got a temper and seems like he could go Connor McGregor on someone at anytime. That being said, if the Pistons DID NOT have Drummond, I'd be sooooo willing to take that risk because DMC is very talented.

One other thing that puts a damper on all these trade ideas is the role (and longevity) of the GM. So for a trade to happen, the GM has to be pretty confident that this isn't going to blow up in his face, because there are only 32 GMs in the league, and its a great f--king gig - great pay, great bennies, etc, etc. So are you really willing to make a trade that will get you fired? If you trade away Drummond, your ass is on the line. I think this factor prevents a lot of big trades from happening.

[Blkbrd671]

Interesting. I'd think Drummond is untouchable. He is 22 (vs 25 for DMC). DMC is better offensively but more of an overall risk. I'd do Drummond for DMC + 2016 #1 (unprotected) + 2018 #1 (unprotected).

You can't get that imo. Yeah there is more risk, but there is really no question that Cousins is the superior player. I love Drummond, but Boogie is better and he's young enough that the age thing doesn't matter that much.

DET will want extra value to trade Drummond for Cousins ... and they're right to.

SAC will want extra value to trade Cousins for Drummond ... and they're right to.

These two are, IMHO, hands down, the top two centers in the league already, and they're the ripe old ages of 25 and 22. It's a noble effort by ORL to sneak into the deal and try to steal one of 'em with some of their assets (which I grant you are good ones), but it just aint gonna fly; the cost for either Drummond or Cousins is just too prohibitively high at this point.

[Smitty731]

Wait a minute....people think Sacramento would need to add value to Cousins to trade him for Drummond straight up? Cousins so far superior on offense it more than makes up the difference on defense. And rebounding is fairly close. I'll give the attitude issues. We all know that is a risk with Cousins.

But in no way would, or should, the Kings add picks. Especially not for a guy who is going to be getting a Max deal this summer.

This isn't a knock on Drummond. I'd take him in a heartbeat. But he's getting a Max contract and Cousins is locked up for at least a couple more years on a lower number. That has to be factored in.

Rebounding isn't close - Drummond is dominant in this area.

Prior to this year, where Cousins is down and Drummond is up, I wouldn't say that 1 rebound or so a game is any sort of gap. But to each their own.

[Smitty731]

My gut says Drummond isn't getting traded for anything less than LeBron, but the above trade seems interesting. That is basically a full starting 5 (although very young). The pick would be late lottery, so...

PG: Jackson, Oladipo, Dinwiddie
SG: KCP, Oladipo, Hezonja
SF: Morris, Johnson, Hezonja
PF: Ilyasova, Gordon
C: Vucevic, Anthony

That's a solid, young bench except for PG and C. If Orlando sucked a bit more so it would be a top 5 pick (with lottery winning potential), it would be more tempting, but I guess still have to say "no" from Detroit. Good try though.

If the Thunder called and offered Durant, the Warriors called and offered Curry or the Pelicans called and offered Davis, of course the Pistons would do all of those. If this is where you are placing Drummond's value, as the second most valuable trade piece in the league, there is no reason in continuing this conversation because that is a gap no one is closing.

[gom]

My gut says Drummond isn't getting traded for anything less than LeBron, but the above trade seems interesting. That is basically a full starting 5 (although very young). The pick would be late lottery, so...

PG: Jackson, Oladipo, Dinwiddie
SG: KCP, Oladipo, Hezonja
SF: Morris, Johnson, Hezonja
PF: Ilyasova, Gordon
C: Vucevic, Anthony

That's a solid, young bench except for PG and C. If Orlando sucked a bit more so it would be a top 5 pick (with lottery winning potential), it would be more tempting, but I guess still have to say "no" from Detroit. Good try though.

If the Thunder called and offered Durant, the Warriors called and offered Curry or the Pelicans called and offered Davis, of course the Pistons would do all of those. If this is where you are placing Drummond's value, as the second most valuable trade piece in the league, there is no reason in continuing this conversation because that is a gap no one is closing.

Orlando's lineup is still pretty strong:

Elfrid Payton, CJ Watson, Shabazz Napier
Joe Johnson, Devyn Marble
Tobias Harris, Evan Fournier
Channing Frye, Andrew Nicholson
Andre Drummond, Dewayne Dedmon

This doesn't look like a lottery team necessarily.

[Blkbrd671]

If the Thunder called and offered Durant the Warriors called and offered Curry or the Pelicans called and offered Davis, of course the Pistons would do all of those. If this is where you are placing Drummond's value, as the second most valuable trade piece in the league, there is no reason in continuing this conversation because that is a gap no one is closing.

Biglips point is he's untouchable in Detroits eyes or that we'd be asking for the moon and sun in any trade. While you can easily make arguments for all those great players > Dre, Detroits best long term option is still DRE and to build around Dre. We've invested so much in developing and building around him, team chemistry, relationships, sh* SVG entire 5 year plan is around dre etc. Detroit simply values/invested in DRE to much to trade him for a "Ready now superstar". Or if they are giving him up its such a great return that we'd be wililng to start the process over(maybe not with davis) We haven't even gone into fit, system, etc. Which i am not interested in discussing.

I just wanted to point out Biglip is one of our better Detroit posters, and just stating fact. We overvalue dre for a reason

[Smitty731]

If the Thunder called and offered Durant the Warriors called and offered Curry or the Pelicans called and offered Davis, of course the Pistons would do all of those. If this is where you are placing Drummond's value, as the second most valuable trade piece in the league, there is no reason in continuing this conversation because that is a gap no one is closing.

Biglips point is he's untouchable in Detroits eyes or that we'd be asking for the moon and sun in any trade. While you can easily make arguments for all those great players > Dre, Detroits best long term option is still DRE and to build around Dre. We've invested so much in developing and building around him, team chemistry, relationships, sh* SVG entire 5 year plan is around dre etc. Detroit simply values/invested in DRE to much to trade him for a "Ready now superstar". Or if they are giving him up its such a great return that we'd be wililng to start the process over(maybe not with davis) We haven't even gone into fit, system, etc. Which i am not interested in discussing.

I just wanted to point out Biglip is one of our better Detroit posters, and just stating fact. We overvalue dre for a reason

If they wouldn't deal him for one of the 4 best players in the league, 3 of whom still have their peak years ahead, then everyone in the organization should be fired. That valuation for a guy who can't play in crunch time is asinine.

I've watched them play the Celtics 3 times in the last few weeks and every time I came away thinking that he deserves a Max deal, but I wouldn't want to be the one giving it to him, if that makes sense. He's a younger DeAndre Jordan. They are basically the same guy. Drummond could possibly develop a better offensive game, but that hasn't happened yet. And Jordan getting a max was questionable too.

I just can't get past anyone saying they wouldn't deal him for Durant, Curry or Davis. That is just pure insanity and homerism at the highest level. I don't care how much time you have invested in the guy. Those guys are all-timers. Drummond is never going to be that.

[Blkbrd671]

If they wouldn't deal him for one of the 4 best players in the league, 3 of whom still have their peak years ahead, then everyone in the organization should be fired. That valuation for a guy who can't play in crunch time is asinine.

The NBA in reality is not 2k where you can put a player with a higher rating on a team and "instant contender", even if that player is lebron. There's system, there is fit, there is roster make up, there is defensive match ups, there is chemistry, there is team direction, etc. While you obviously don't value that, doesn't mean it doesn't have value to Detroit.

I've watched them play the Celtics 3 times in the last few weeks and every time I came away thinking that he deserves a Max deal, but I wouldn't want to be the one giving it to him, if that makes sense. He's a younger DeAndre Jordan. They are basically the same guy. Drummond could possibly develop a better offensive game, but that hasn't happened yet. And Jordan getting a max was questionable too.

Again that is your opinion which isn't even close. If you think DJ and DRE are similar players, i have no interest in discussing anything with you. They aren't even close to the same player unless your just referring to how they are both black, tall atheltic and suck at ft's. That's about the only relevant comparison.

I just can't get past anyone saying they wouldn't deal him for Durant, Curry or Davis. That is just pure insanity and homerism at the highest level. I don't care how much time you have invested in the guy. Those guys are all-timers. Drummond is never going to be that.

1.) Your assuming your opinion "Dre's not a all-timer" as fact, which isnt' true
2.) You can't get past it because you have very litle insight as to how Detroit values DRe
3.) You over value brand name players and the impact they have on their team
4.) Your making comments like we are in a vacuum, ignoring fit, contracts , team control, roster make up, system etc. which are all relevant in these decisions.

[DocRI]

If the Thunder called and offered Durant the Warriors called and offered Curry or the Pelicans called and offered Davis, of course the Pistons would do all of those. If this is where you are placing Drummond's value, as the second most valuable trade piece in the league, there is no reason in continuing this conversation because that is a gap no one is closing.

Biglips point is he's untouchable in Detroits eyes or that we'd be asking for the moon and sun in any trade. While you can easily make arguments for all those great players > Dre, Detroits best long term option is still DRE and to build around Dre. We've invested so much in developing and building around him, team chemistry, relationships, sh* SVG entire 5 year plan is around dre etc. Detroit simply values/invested in DRE to much to trade him for a "Ready now superstar". Or if they are giving him up its such a great return that we'd be wililng to start the process over(maybe not with davis) We haven't even gone into fit, system, etc. Which i am not interested in discussing.

I just wanted to point out Biglip is one of our better Detroit posters, and just stating fact. We overvalue dre for a reason

If they wouldn't deal him for one of the 4 best players in the league, 3 of whom still have their peak years ahead, then everyone in the organization should be fired. That valuation for a guy who can't play in crunch time is asinine.

I've watched them play the Celtics 3 times in the last few weeks and every time I came away thinking that he deserves a Max deal, but I wouldn't want to be the one giving it to him, if that makes sense. He's a younger DeAndre Jordan. They are basically the same guy. Drummond could possibly develop a better offensive game, but that hasn't happened yet. And Jordan getting a max was questionable too.

I just can't get past anyone saying they wouldn't deal him for Durant, Curry or Davis. That is just pure insanity and homerism at the highest level. I don't care how much time you have invested in the guy. Those guys are all-timers. Drummond is never going to be that.

You're a better poster than this, Smitty.

Last year, The "Drummond = DeAndre" comparison was lazy; this year, it's flat out laughable and ignorant. Drummond is averaging 18 & 16 at 22 years old; at that age, DeAndre averaged 7 & 7. Drummond HAS developed a better offensive game, not only than he previously had (you know, back when he was a teenager), but than DeAndre CURRENTLY has. Watch him a few more games and notice how many times he backs his defender down and shoots a soft jump hook. Then watch some Clippers games and wait for DeAndre to show that same move; the next time he does it will be the first.

Look, they're both big and neither can shoot free throws. I get that. But using that logic, I could argue that Drummond is "basically the same guy" as Shaq. Sticking to this "Drummond = DeAndre" narrative either shows you're not paying attention, haven't watched enough of Drummond this year, or are just stubbornly ignoring facts and refusing to revise your opinion. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's not the latter, but you are way, W-A-Y off with this one.

[Smitty731]

If they wouldn't deal him for one of the 4 best players in the league, 3 of whom still have their peak years ahead, then everyone in the organization should be fired. That valuation for a guy who can't play in crunch time is asinine.

The NBA in reality is not 2k where you can put a player with a higher rating on a team and "instant contender", even if that player is lebron. There's system, there is fit, there is roster make up, there is defensive match ups, there is chemistry, there is team direction, etc. While you obviously don't value that, doesn't mean it doesn't have value to Detroit.

I've watched them play the Celtics 3 times in the last few weeks and every time I came away thinking that he deserves a Max deal, but I wouldn't want to be the one giving it to him, if that makes sense. He's a younger DeAndre Jordan. They are basically the same guy. Drummond could possibly develop a better offensive game, but that hasn't happened yet. And Jordan getting a max was questionable too.

Again that is your opinion which isn't even close. If you think DJ and DRE are similar players, i have no interest in discussing anything with you. They aren't even close to the same player unless your just referring to how they are both black, tall atheltic and suck at ft's. That's about the only relevant comparison.

I just can't get past anyone saying they wouldn't deal him for Durant, Curry or Davis. That is just pure insanity and homerism at the highest level. I don't care how much time you have invested in the guy. Those guys are all-timers. Drummond is never going to be that.

1.) Your assuming your opinion "Dre's not a all-timer" as fact, which isnt' true
2.) You can't get past it because you have very litle insight as to how Detroit values DRe
3.) You over value brand name players and the impact they have on their team
4.) Your making comments like we are in a vacuum, ignoring fit, contracts , team control, roster make up, system etc. which are all relevant in these decisions.

Now you are being insulting and I don't appreciate that at all. Trust me I understand that it isn't NBA2k. Any of James, Durant, Davis or Curry would immediately improve the Pistons to levels that Drummond never will. Suggesting anything else is just stupidity.

Explain to me how Drummond and Jordan are so different. And NEVER bring race in to the discussion. That has nothing to do with anything and really shows your level of discourse. They are both big men who block shots, rebound, and have limited offensive games. Explain to me the major differences please.

1. He isn't an all-timer. None of his stats suggest that. Take a look at his similarity scores. He compares favorably to two HoFers in Mutombo and Lanier. The rest are not at that level.

2. I don't care how Detroit values him. If they value him higher than James, Durant, Curry or Davis then they are morons.

3. Stars win in the NBA. You may be warped by the fact that your team won 1 title without star players. But the fact is that is the only team in the last 30 years to win without a star.

4. You can rest assured that I understand how contracts and roster make up work better than most. And the reality is the Drummond is getting a Max deal, while the other 4 guys are either on one or will be soon. So, that comparison doesn't matter all that much.

The overall point is that his value is high. He's a good player. But he's not a top 10 guy in the league, never mind a top 5 guy. And suggesting that the Pistons wouldn't deal him for the 4 best players in the world is just idiocy or being a homer. I'll let you pick which one it is.

[Smitty731]

You're a better poster than this, Smitty.

Last year, The "Drummond = DeAndre" comparison was lazy; this year, it's flat out laughable and ignorant. Drummond is averaging 18 & 16 at 22 years old; at that age, DeAndre averaged 7 & 7. Drummond HAS developed a better offensive game, not only than he previously had (you know, back when he was a teenager), but than DeAndre CURRENTLY has. Watch him a few more games and notice how many times he backs his defender down and shoots a soft jump hook. Then watch some Clippers games and wait for DeAndre to show that same move; the next time he does it will be the first.

Look, they're both big and neither can shoot free throws. I get that. But using that logic, I could argue that Drummond is "basically the same guy" as Shaq. Sticking to this "Drummond = DeAndre" narrative either shows you're not paying attention, haven't watched enough of Drummond this year, or are just stubbornly ignoring facts and refusing to revise your opinion. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's not the latter, but you are way, W-A-Y off with this one.

He isn't and never will be a guy you build your offense around. That was more the point I was making. He is better offensively than Jordan. I'll give you that. But the fact remains that beyond that, they are very similar players. Both are defense/rebounding first big men. At this point, they may be the two best in the league in that respect.

I just know that in those three games against the Celtics, he couldn't play in late game situations. And I've seen that in multiple other games this year. I can't get behind giving max money to a guy who can't play in the last 5 minutes of a game because he's such a liability at the FT line. When the Pistons start playing really important games, like they are this year, the problem just gets magnified that much more. That would be a major red flag for me.

[MotownMadness]

You're a better poster than this, Smitty.

Last year, The "Drummond = DeAndre" comparison was lazy; this year, it's flat out laughable and ignorant. Drummond is averaging 18 & 16 at 22 years old; at that age, DeAndre averaged 7 & 7. Drummond HAS developed a better offensive game, not only than he previously had (you know, back when he was a teenager), but than DeAndre CURRENTLY has. Watch him a few more games and notice how many times he backs his defender down and shoots a soft jump hook. Then watch some Clippers games and wait for DeAndre to show that same move; the next time he does it will be the first.

Look, they're both big and neither can shoot free throws. I get that. But using that logic, I could argue that Drummond is "basically the same guy" as Shaq. Sticking to this "Drummond = DeAndre" narrative either shows you're not paying attention, haven't watched enough of Drummond this year, or are just stubbornly ignoring facts and refusing to revise your opinion. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's not the latter, but you are way, W-A-Y off with this one.

He isn't and never will be a guy you build your offense around. That was more the point I was making. He is better offensively than Jordan. I'll give you that. But the fact remains that beyond that, they are very similar players. Both are defense/rebounding first big men. At this point, they may be the two best in the league in that respect.

I just know that in those three games against the Celtics, he couldn't play in late game situations. And I've seen that in multiple other games this year. I can't get behind giving max money to a guy who can't play in the last 5 minutes of a game because he's such a liability at the FT line. When the Pistons start playing really important games, like they are this year, the problem just gets magnified that much more. That would be a major red flag for me.

You've seen him in 3 games and think he's exactly like Deandre Jordon so yeah I wouldn't expect you to think he's worth a max. But to anyone who watches him more than 3 times knows what a monster this guy can be and how he can absolutely take over games even offensively. What do you think he avgs what he does without coming out and taking over games? . The FT thing is very frustrating but still he's definitely a huge positive positive and a max player.

[Smitty731]

You're a better poster than this, Smitty.

Last year, The "Drummond = DeAndre" comparison was lazy; this year, it's flat out laughable and ignorant. Drummond is averaging 18 & 16 at 22 years old; at that age, DeAndre averaged 7 & 7. Drummond HAS developed a better offensive game, not only than he previously had (you know, back when he was a teenager), but than DeAndre CURRENTLY has. Watch him a few more games and notice how many times he backs his defender down and shoots a soft jump hook. Then watch some Clippers games and wait for DeAndre to show that same move; the next time he does it will be the first.

Look, they're both big and neither can shoot free throws. I get that. But using that logic, I could argue that Drummond is "basically the same guy" as Shaq. Sticking to this "Drummond = DeAndre" narrative either shows you're not paying attention, haven't watched enough of Drummond this year, or are just stubbornly ignoring facts and refusing to revise your opinion. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's not the latter, but you are way, W-A-Y off with this one.

He isn't and never will be a guy you build your offense around. That was more the point I was making. He is better offensively than Jordan. I'll give you that. But the fact remains that beyond that, they are very similar players. Both are defense/rebounding first big men. At this point, they may be the two best in the league in that respect.

I just know that in those three games against the Celtics, he couldn't play in late game situations. And I've seen that in multiple other games this year. I can't get behind giving max money to a guy who can't play in the last 5 minutes of a game because he's such a liability at the FT line. When the Pistons start playing really important games, like they are this year, the problem just gets magnified that much more. That would be a major red flag for me.

You've seen him in 3 games and think he's exactly like Deandre Jordon so yeah I wouldn't expect you to think he's worth a max. But to anyone who watches him more than 3 times knows what a monster this guy can be and how he can absolutely take over games even offensively. What do you think he avgs what he does without coming out and taking over games? . The FT thing is very frustrating but still he's definitely a huge positive positive and a max player.

I clearly said I've seen him more than three times, but feel free to ignore that.

And I've also said a bunch of times that he's getting a Max. And he should get a Max. I just don't want to be the one giving it to him. And he doesn't take over games offensively. The team never runs the offense through him. He gets some post touches, makes some great rim runs, and effectively hits the glass. But he doesn't take over games on the offense end. Defensively, he absolutely does. I've watched him wreck more than a few game plans with his defense. That alone is why he's going to get the Max deal. But I don't want to give a Max deal to a guy you can't play down the stretch in close games. I have a huge issue with paying that kind of money to a guy who can't give me a wire to wire game if necessary.

[DocRI]

You're a better poster than this, Smitty.

Last year, The "Drummond = DeAndre" comparison was lazy; this year, it's flat out laughable and ignorant. Drummond is averaging 18 & 16 at 22 years old; at that age, DeAndre averaged 7 & 7. Drummond HAS developed a better offensive game, not only than he previously had (you know, back when he was a teenager), but than DeAndre CURRENTLY has. Watch him a few more games and notice how many times he backs his defender down and shoots a soft jump hook. Then watch some Clippers games and wait for DeAndre to show that same move; the next time he does it will be the first.

Look, they're both big and neither can shoot free throws. I get that. But using that logic, I could argue that Drummond is "basically the same guy" as Shaq. Sticking to this "Drummond = DeAndre" narrative either shows you're not paying attention, haven't watched enough of Drummond this year, or are just stubbornly ignoring facts and refusing to revise your opinion. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's not the latter, but you are way, W-A-Y off with this one.

He isn't and never will be a guy you build your offense around. That was more the point I was making. He is better offensively than Jordan. I'll give you that. But the fact remains that beyond that, they are very similar players. Both are defense/rebounding first big men. At this point, they may be the two best in the league in that respect.

Neither was Bill Russell. Heck, I'd argue that the Spurs offense isn't "built around" Tim Duncan; Parker & Manu were more the offensive focus for most of their championship teams. I think the key word in your post is "around." I'd argue you can build an offense "around" Drummond, as in literally around. He aint Kareem or Hakeem, who you throw the ball to in the low post and get out of their way, but he's enough of a presence to be part of a team offense (especially surrounded by shooters). Ben Wallace won my team a championship and IMHO should someday make the Hall of Fame, but he was a liability on offense other than put backs and the team basically played 4-on-5 on that end of the floor. They're clearly completely different style of players, but Drummond already contributes more on offense than Wallace ever did.

And again, as for Drummond vs. DeAndre — as you agreed, Dre's better offensively. I'll concede that DeAndre is a better defender (although Dre has made major strides since SVG arrived). But Dre's a better rebounder, and he's five years younger. They're similar size and style, but one is clearly superior to the other. To make a purely stylistic analogy, Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan are/were "very similar players," but MJ was clearly just plain better. Seeing as Drummond has already surpassed DeAndre in almost every way, at five years younger, I think it's time to put this comparison to bed. Drummond was a lot like DeAndre when he entered the league. WAS. But his learning curve has been WAY sharper, and therefore his ceiling is WAY higher.

I just know that in those three games against the Celtics, he couldn't play in late game situations. And I've seen that in multiple other games this year. I can't get behind giving max money to a guy who can't play in the last 5 minutes of a game because he's such a liability at the FT line. When the Pistons start playing really important games, like they are this year, the problem just gets magnified that much more. That would be a major red flag for me.

Trust me, I and every other Piston fan share those concerns. But to be fair, Drummond is USUALLY on the floor to end games (last night was an outlier). And I think you're severely undervaluing just how much else he brings to the table. We all have our personal "deal breakers," but seeing how dominant he already is at such a young age, I'd consider his FT shooting a significant flaw that's worth dealing with.

[joedumars1]

If they wouldn't deal him for one of the 4 best players in the league, 3 of whom still have their peak years ahead, then everyone in the organization should be fired. That valuation for a guy who can't play in crunch time is asinine.

The NBA in reality is not 2k where you can put a player with a higher rating on a team and "instant contender", even if that player is lebron. There's system, there is fit, there is roster make up, there is defensive match ups, there is chemistry, there is team direction, etc. While you obviously don't value that, doesn't mean it doesn't have value to Detroit.

I've watched them play the Celtics 3 times in the last few weeks and every time I came away thinking that he deserves a Max deal, but I wouldn't want to be the one giving it to him, if that makes sense. He's a younger DeAndre Jordan. They are basically the same guy. Drummond could possibly develop a better offensive game, but that hasn't happened yet. And Jordan getting a max was questionable too.

Again that is your opinion which isn't even close. If you think DJ and DRE are similar players, i have no interest in discussing anything with you. They aren't even close to the same player unless your just referring to how they are both black, tall atheltic and suck at ft's. That's about the only relevant comparison.

I just can't get past anyone saying they wouldn't deal him for Durant, Curry or Davis. That is just pure insanity and homerism at the highest level. I don't care how much time you have invested in the guy. Those guys are all-timers. Drummond is never going to be that.

1.) Your assuming your opinion "Dre's not a all-timer" as fact, which isnt' true
2.) You can't get past it because you have very litle insight as to how Detroit values DRe
3.) You over value brand name players and the impact they have on their team
4.) Your making comments like we are in a vacuum, ignoring fit, contracts , team control, roster make up, system etc. which are all relevant in these decisions.

Now you are being insulting and I don't appreciate that at all. Trust me I understand that it isn't NBA2k. Any of James, Durant, Davis or Curry would immediately improve the Pistons to levels that Drummond never will. Suggesting anything else is just stupidity.

Explain to me how Drummond and Jordan are so different. And NEVER bring race in to the discussion. That has nothing to do with anything and really shows your level of discourse. They are both big men who block shots, rebound, and have limited offensive games. Explain to me the major differences please.

1. He isn't an all-timer. None of his stats suggest that. Take a look at his similarity scores. He compares favorably to two HoFers in Mutombo and Lanier. The rest are not at that level.

2. I don't care how Detroit values him. If they value him higher than James, Durant, Curry or Davis then they are morons.

3. Stars win in the NBA. You may be warped by the fact that your team won 1 title without star players. But the fact is that is the only team in the last 30 years to win without a star.

4. You can rest assured that I understand how contracts and roster make up work better than most. And the reality is the Drummond is getting a Max deal, while the other 4 guys are either on one or will be soon. So, that comparison doesn't matter all that much.

The overall point is that his value is high. He's a good player. But he's not a top 10 guy in the league, never mind a top 5 guy. And suggesting that the Pistons wouldn't deal him for the 4 best players in the world is just idiocy or being a homer. I'll let you pick which one it is.

I was digging through some stats and was looking to see how often what Andre is doing, has been done in the league. Alot of guys have strived for the coveted 20/10, but how many have rebounded at this high a rate and still scored as much as Andre. I put the cutoff at 18 pts/16 rebs, just to get some nice even numbers around where Andre is, even though he's slightly above those numbers.

This is the list of players who have averaged 18+pts and 16+ rebs a game, for an NBA season and the last year they did it.

1. Bill Russell 61-62*
2. Bob Pettit 61-62*
3. Elgin Baylor 61-62*
4. Walt Bellamy 63-64*
5. Jerry Lucas 68-69*
6. Wilt Chamberlain 70-71*
7. Nate Thurmond 71-72*
8. Dave Cowens 72-73*
9. Elvin Hayes 73-74*
10. Kareen Abdul-Jabber 75-76*
11. Andre Drummond 15-16

(*)= Basketball Hall of Fame Inductee.

What Andre is doing hasn't been done in 40 yrs. And everyone who has done it, is in the Hall of Fame. This is the company he's keeping up with this season. A reminder for all those complaining about his "lack of effort" or "lack of maturity" or that he's "not focused". 40 YEARS!!

With our schedule getting easier due to our tough first half of the season, Andre has the chance to actually improve on these numbers and shorten the list. We are watching greatness. Please don't take it for granted.

I guess he's not putting up all time great #'s this year at AGE 22! No we wouldn't be better getting Bron, Durant, Curry or Davis. Our team goes how RJ and Dre go, we lose Dre and it makes RJ worse. I might trade him for Curry, Lebron to old, Durant kinda getting old seems banged up, Davis injury concerns, but if he didn't have that maybe. No Dre isn't putting up all time great #'s this year tho

[HartfordWhalers]

I might trade him for Curry

So, you also might not?