Playoffs Lead Up

[rilamann]

The 6-0 start actually kind of incriminates the Packers offense,if Rodgers and everyone looked this bad from week 1 it would be easier to just chalk it up as a bad season and put more stock into what you are saying.

As for my theory,like I said I think that it could be a subconscious thing.You're trying to twist up what I am saying like I think the Packers got together and said ''hey,let's not focus or play hard''.That's not what I think or what I am saying at all.

But if you think a team choking on such an epic level in such a huge game is not going to effect that team physiologically you are fooling yourself.

These are grown tough men in an NFL locker room, not a bunch of soft weak minded wusses which you seem to believe they are.

I'm sure that loss stung hard for awhile, but teams lose in devastating fashion in the playoffs all of the time. These guys aren't fans on a message board, they are professional athletes who understand this and thus understand that come the next season, they have to brush that sting off and move on to the next season.

To believe that magically on the 7th game of the season that a bunch of players on offense only started to have continual flashbacks to the NFC Title game last year and thus in turn the offense cratered is something i'd bet every penny i have that those players would laugh over.

And BTW, if your theory actually was true, then Ted Thompson should begin a massive purge of nearly all of the players on offense because no team would ever be good over multiple years if their roster was full of mentally weak players who just couldn't get over a very tough loss and it hurt their play the next season. This is professional football, not pop warner where it's ok for kids to cry in their pillow for an extended period of time over a terrible loss.

As for the 6-0 start, even then there were some troubling signs with the passing game, but they got wins. Aaron only threw for 300 yards once in those games. It was Denver though who was the first defense to play as aggressive as they did. Tight man all game and lots of blitzing. Daring our offense and receivers to beat them for big plays, but we couldn't do it. Ever since, nearly every defense does the same. The coaching staff and receivers haven't been able to adjust.

That and the O-Line has turned to straight garbage from a mix of players struggling, injuries, and our backup tackles very well could struggle blocking Division 3 college pass rushers. I'm surprised Aaron hasn't gotten hurt as much as he gets hit.

I'm not necessarily saying that I think the players are weak minded wusses in this instance.My point here is that Aaron Rodgers and the offense for the most part no longer trust and believe in Mike McCarthy.

If I was a player and busted my ass all season and our team made it to the championship game and our coach choked as hard as McCarthy did in that game,I know I would have a hard time believing in that coach and giving it all my all for that coach the next season and ever.Now would I necessarily consciously think ''hey,this guy choked I'm not going to give it my all for this guy anymore''.Probably not,but it would be hard for me to play my ass off for a coach I didn't trust or respect.That would just be human nature,and I know NFL players are really good at football,but they're still humans.

The thrill is gone.

And I am not totally discrediting the points you make.Jordy being out was big,I agree the offensive line regressed this season,I understand that our receivers aren't the best group in the league.

But when you consider that we still have a healthy prime Aaron Rodgers at QB those factors aren't enough that our offense should be THIS bad.It's bad to the point that there is something more going on here than what we are seeing with our eyes.

And a lot of those sacks you talk about are on Aaron Rodgers and him not playing at his usual MVP level.

I love Aaron Rodgers but let's not put it all on the line,part of the reason the line looks bad is because Aaron Rodgers is making them look bad with his sub par play.Has the line regressed? Sure.Would they look this bad if Rodgers was his usual Godgers self? No.

And during the 6-0 start Rodgers might not have had huge stats,but he was making a bunch of MVP throws in those games,that was a big reason why we won those games.How many Godgers or MVP throws has Rodgers made since the bye week? MVP throws are throws that Star QB s make and make guys like James Jones look better than they really are,we saw that week 1 against the Bears and during the 6-0 start.We haven't seen that since the bye week.

And that Championship game wasn't just a devastating loss,it was an epic choke in which all future epic chokes will be measured.

Our great great great great great grand children in 2200 will hear about that game when people talk about the biggest chokes in pro sports history.

And the main reason the Packers choked in that game was Mike McCarthy,make no mistake about that.

[LUKE23]

MM was very conservative in the NFCC. However, the two biggest plays that cost GB the game were Burnett sitting down with the INT instead of taking it to the house, and Bostick ignoring the coaches on what to do on the onside, then fumbling. Those were the two biggest.

That said, I do believe there is a rift between Rodgers and MM. Way too much smoke, poor body language, and rumors out there, along with what we are seeing on the field. Hopefully there are extensive talks with all involved over the offseason because MM getting canned is unlikely.

[Ron Swanson]

And the main reason the Packers choked in that game was Mike McCarthy,make no mistake about that.

You really need to stop peddling this ridiculous narrative. Say what you want about this year, but the NFCCG was lost on a special teams brain fart AKA by a player failing to execute, as well as a handful of other plays where, you know, the actual players on the field made mistakes.

I actually thought all the "mental toughness" jokes were a bit much, but now I know why people kept/keep making them. Because you literally just can't let it go...

[th87]

Just go back to that Farrar article that said we make our receivers run **** routes that don't get them open so they're forced to win 1 on 1 battles when they aren't fast enough to beat corners.

Yeah that's the conclusion I had to make too. I've always liked Mccarthy, but this is a fireable offense.

I think it's a myriad of reasons why the offense has been so bad.

1. The offensive coaches just haven't figured out a way to adjust ever since the Broncos game where that defense put out the blueprint in how the put shackles on the passing game. Press all receivers at the line of scrimmage and either double Cobb or bring a blitz because nobody is a treat to run past corners.

2. Lack of big play talent which Ted has assembled both at receiver and especially tight end. With Jordy gone, Adams playing more like a 7th round pick vs a 2nd round pick in a loaded receiver draft, and Jones being maybe a 4.7 40 guy now. We may have the least talented group of tight ends in the league. This also hurts the running game. With the lack of big play threats, defenses are much more willing to play one safety in the box on early downs.

3. The offensive line. That unit looked to be a major strength going into the season and instead it's been a weakness, especially at tackle. Bakhtiari even when healthy gets penalized much to often. As good as Sitton is, he's also drawn to many penalties. Bulaga has missed part of or full games and if Barclay hasn't been the worst backup tackle in the NFL, he has to be top 2-3 worst. When he isn't getting pulled rushed into Aaron, pass rushers are blowing right past him like his feet are in cement.

Just look at how many drives get sabotaged after say a 1st or 2nd down holding call, hands to the face, or sack. Last year the line was fortunate to be mostly injury free, but this year the injuries at tackle exposed the horrible depth which Ted had in place at backup tackle. This needs to be addressed next year. You don't have to be young everywhere.

4. For whatever reason, Rodgers has missed numerous open receivers this year that in the past he'd have completed in his sleep and he's thrown a few Favre like picks in the red zone which were hard to believe. He has looked frustrated more often this year after being sacked yet again or even more so when given time to throw, but he just can't find anyone open.

All of this has combined to be a shocking crash in the passing game to where a few times, Aaron would have less than 100 yards passing at halftime and most of the big plays in the passing game have come on screens. Ted needs to get back to drafting better since he rarely brings in players via any other avenue and i'd prefer he bring in a new head coach, but Ted seems way to risk adverse to make a bold change like that.

I agree that all these are factors. Reasons 2 and 3 are things we can't really control at this time, but I'm shocked that we can't/don't employ lots of motion and bunch formations to obviate jamming receivers. It makes no sense what the motivation would be. Stubbornness? The players' inability to add those plays to their repertoire? If it's stubbornness, then MM should be looked at. If it's players' inability, then TT should be looked at.

Rodgers regressing is also very, very concerning, because I really hope this doesn't become the new normal a'la Favre in the early 2000s.

[th87]

I don't get how this level of futility is even possible.

Our receivers are on par with, or better than those of the Panthers, Ravens, current Bears, Browns, Chiefs, possibly Vikings, Saints, Eagles, Bills, current Chargers, 49ers, Rams, Titans, and possibly Dolphins. That puts us squarely in the middle of the pack.

And yet:

1. Here's this year's weighted offensive DVOA rank from Football Outsiders:

Packers: 21

Chiefs: 3
Saints: 5
Panthers: 6
Bills: 8
Bears: 9
Vikings: 15
Chargers: 17
Dolphins: 19

Ravens: 22
Eagles: 25
49ers: 26
Browns: 27
Rams: 29
Titans: 31

Those who are worse are trotting out Jimmy Clausen/Ryan Mallett, Sam Bradford/Mark Sanchez (whose coach was fired), Kaepernick/Gabbert, McCown/Manziel, Foles/Keenum, and Mariota/Mettenberger.

2. Rodgers ranks THIRTIETH!! in YPA. Behind big names like Ryan Fitzpatrick, Sam Bradford, Brian Hoyer, and Ryan Tannehill.

3. Packers rank 28th in 3rd down percentage, ahead of only the Titans, Dolphins, 49ers, and Rams.

So if we have middle of the pack receivers, and the best QB in the NFL, this makes no sense.

I think the biggest reason for all of this is that the offense,Aaron Rodgers in-particular have lost faith and confidence in Mike McCarthy as a head coach and it stems back from the NFC Championship game last season.

I don't buy for the second that pretty much the same team that made it to and dominated an NFC Championship game less than a year ago and the same team and the same offense (without Jordy Nelson) that started the season 6-0 and looked pretty damn good doing it fell off the face of the **** earth simply because some teams made some adjustments.

Look I get it,Jordy was a big loss and I understand we that don't necessarily have the greatest group of receivers in the league,but our receivers aren't terrible and we still have the great Aaron Rodgers at QB.

No offense lead at QB by a prime Aaron Rodgers should ever be this bad.....EVER.I don't care what adjustments our opponents make.If that's the case then Aaron Rodgers is nowhere near as good as we thought and Mike might be one of the worst coaches in the history of the NFL.

It's not like we're sitting here talking about how the offense is still pretty good but just not as good as it has been in the past,I could accept that with Jordy Nelson being out.But his offense lead by Aaron Rodgers can barley get first downs for God's sake.

This team's focus and intensity is just not the same and hasn't been since the bye week.I don't know if the Denver loss did something to this team or something happened off the field during the bye week,but something did and I think whatever it was goes back to the NFC Championship game.

My basic point and I don't know if it's a conscious or subconscious thing.But I just think that this team,again Rodgers in-particular feel that no matter how hard they focus,no matter how much they prepare,no matter how hard they play,they know it will all be for naught in the end because they are being lead by Mike McCarthy.

And when you look back at that NFC Championship game last season,can you blame them?

I agree that this could maybe be one factor. If you're under someone you don't fully respect or resent, you start to subconsciously not go as hard in preparation, or that extra rep, or whatever. It may be giving 99% versus 100%, but the line between success and failure is so thin.

I was worried about this very thing after the NFCCG, though I never dreamed it would be this bad. Just a hangover where they're not quite as sharp as they were. It happened to the 4th and 26 Packers team, and I got the sense that players were beginning to not *fully* buy in to what Sherman was selling. With the internal discord, it's possible something similar is starting to happen.

Why did it take 6 games? Maybe their first taste of adversity started an unhealthy pointing of fingers, or a slight tuning out.

It's a factor of many factors, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[th87]

And the main reason the Packers choked in that game was Mike McCarthy,make no mistake about that.

You really need to stop peddling this ridiculous narrative. Say what you want about this year, but the NFCCG was lost on a special teams brain fart AKA by a player failing to execute, as well as a handful of other plays where, you know, the actual players on the field made mistakes.

I actually thought all the "mental toughness" jokes were a bit much, but now I know why people kept/keep making them. Because you literally just can't let it go...

At the same time, it would be unfair to completely reject the mental thing being a factor. Football success is largely predicated on players TOTALLY buying into what the coaches are doing. And to buy in, they have to believe that the coaches know what they're doing.

Fair or not, MM drew credibility concerns after the NFCCG. Playing it too safely down the stretch, not knowing that Clay left the game, etc., culminating in the biggest choke in franchise history. Of course people are going to start questioning the person presiding over that, players included, who may begin to resent the coach. (As an aside, the game should never have been that close after being gifted 5 turnovers.)

After 4th and 26, Sherman was viewed as making Ed Donatell and Lionel Washington scapegoats, which eventually led to Mike McKenzie's departure. Things started to slide a bit after that, and the team just wasn't as sharp as they had been.

There are signs this type of thing is happening this season too, with the young guys playing video games, Lacy's insubordination, and now the Rodgers-McCarthy beef.

I don't think all that just came out of nowhere.

Again though, probably one factor in many.

[RRyder823]

And the main reason the Packers choked in that game was Mike McCarthy,make no mistake about that.

You really need to stop peddling this ridiculous narrative. Say what you want about this year, but the NFCCG was lost on a special teams brain fart AKA by a player failing to execute, as well as a handful of other plays where, you know, the actual players on the field made mistakes.

I actually thought all the "mental toughness" jokes were a bit much, but now I know why people kept/keep making them. Because you literally just can't let it go...

At the same time, it would be unfair to completely reject the mental thing being a factor. Football success is largely predicated on players TOTALLY buying into what the coaches are doing. And to buy in, they have to believe that the coaches know what they're doing.

Fair or not, MM drew credibility concerns after the NFCCG. Playing it too safely down the stretch, not knowing that Clay left the game, etc., culminating in the biggest choke in franchise history. Of course people are going to start questioning the person presiding over that, players included, who may begin to resent the coach. (As an aside, the game should never have been that close after being gifted 5 turnovers.)

After 4th and 26, Sherman was viewed as making Ed Donatell and Lionel Washington scapegoats, which eventually led to Mike McKenzie's departure. Things started to slide a bit after that, and the team just wasn't as sharp as they had been.

There are signs this type of thing is happening this season too, with the young guys playing video games, Lacy's insubordination, and now the Rodgers-McCarthy beef.

I don't think all that just came out of nowhere.

Again though, probably one factor in many.

Still not buying it. Any kind of rift stemming from the NFCCG would of manifested at the beginning of the year. Not at freakin mid season.

Also the young guys playing video games and Lacy's insubordination are the same thing. And a MM/Rodgers beef is all just conjecture most likely by people trying to make sense of this season when in reality some times things just don't click for whatever reason

[rich_mccarthy]

It's pretty sad that people are still stuck on last season. Way past time to move on.

[rilamann]

I don't get how this level of futility is even possible.

Our receivers are on par with, or better than those of the Panthers, Ravens, current Bears, Browns, Chiefs, possibly Vikings, Saints, Eagles, Bills, current Chargers, 49ers, Rams, Titans, and possibly Dolphins. That puts us squarely in the middle of the pack.

And yet:

1. Here's this year's weighted offensive DVOA rank from Football Outsiders:

Packers: 21

Chiefs: 3
Saints: 5
Panthers: 6
Bills: 8
Bears: 9
Vikings: 15
Chargers: 17
Dolphins: 19

Ravens: 22
Eagles: 25
49ers: 26
Browns: 27
Rams: 29
Titans: 31

Those who are worse are trotting out Jimmy Clausen/Ryan Mallett, Sam Bradford/Mark Sanchez (whose coach was fired), Kaepernick/Gabbert, McCown/Manziel, Foles/Keenum, and Mariota/Mettenberger.

2. Rodgers ranks THIRTIETH!! in YPA. Behind big names like Ryan Fitzpatrick, Sam Bradford, Brian Hoyer, and Ryan Tannehill.

3. Packers rank 28th in 3rd down percentage, ahead of only the Titans, Dolphins, 49ers, and Rams.

So if we have middle of the pack receivers, and the best QB in the NFL, this makes no sense.

I think the biggest reason for all of this is that the offense,Aaron Rodgers in-particular have lost faith and confidence in Mike McCarthy as a head coach and it stems back from the NFC Championship game last season.

I don't buy for the second that pretty much the same team that made it to and dominated an NFC Championship game less than a year ago and the same team and the same offense (without Jordy Nelson) that started the season 6-0 and looked pretty damn good doing it fell off the face of the **** earth simply because some teams made some adjustments.

Look I get it,Jordy was a big loss and I understand we that don't necessarily have the greatest group of receivers in the league,but our receivers aren't terrible and we still have the great Aaron Rodgers at QB.

No offense lead at QB by a prime Aaron Rodgers should ever be this bad.....EVER.I don't care what adjustments our opponents make.If that's the case then Aaron Rodgers is nowhere near as good as we thought and Mike might be one of the worst coaches in the history of the NFL.

It's not like we're sitting here talking about how the offense is still pretty good but just not as good as it has been in the past,I could accept that with Jordy Nelson being out.But his offense lead by Aaron Rodgers can barley get first downs for God's sake.

This team's focus and intensity is just not the same and hasn't been since the bye week.I don't know if the Denver loss did something to this team or something happened off the field during the bye week,but something did and I think whatever it was goes back to the NFC Championship game.

My basic point and I don't know if it's a conscious or subconscious thing.But I just think that this team,again Rodgers in-particular feel that no matter how hard they focus,no matter how much they prepare,no matter how hard they play,they know it will all be for naught in the end because they are being lead by Mike McCarthy.

And when you look back at that NFC Championship game last season,can you blame them?

I agree that this could maybe be one factor. If you're under someone you don't fully respect or resent, you start to subconsciously not go as hard in preparation, or that extra rep, or whatever. It may be giving 99% versus 100%, but the line between success and failure is so thin.

I was worried about this very thing after the NFCCG, though I never dreamed it would be this bad. Just a hangover where they're not quite as sharp as they were. It happened to the 4th and 26 Packers team, and I got the sense that players were beginning to not *fully* buy in to what Sherman was selling. With the internal discord, it's possible something similar is starting to happen.

Why did it take 6 games? Maybe their first taste of adversity started an unhealthy pointing of fingers, or a slight tuning out.

It's a factor of many factors, but I wouldn't be surprised.

I agree that what I am saying isn't the only factor,but I think it might be the biggest factor.

I was worried about this too,after the Championship game my first thought was that it could have a black cloud effect on the team going into this season.I thought the game would either have a black cloud effect on the team,or it would give them a new focus and determination and motivation that would put them over the hump.I wasn't sure which way they would go but I was 100% convinced they wouldn't be the same team after that game.I talked about this in the season prediction thread.

I also agree that despite the 6-0 start all it probably took was some adversity to re-open that wound

[rilamann]

And the main reason the Packers choked in that game was Mike McCarthy,make no mistake about that.

You really need to stop peddling this ridiculous narrative. Say what you want about this year, but the NFCCG was lost on a special teams brain fart AKA by a player failing to execute, as well as a handful of other plays where, you know, the actual players on the field made mistakes.

I actually thought all the "mental toughness" jokes were a bit much, but now I know why people kept/keep making them. Because you literally just can't let it go...

At the same time, it would be unfair to completely reject the mental thing being a factor. Football success is largely predicated on players TOTALLY buying into what the coaches are doing. And to buy in, they have to believe that the coaches know what they're doing.

Fair or not, MM drew credibility concerns after the NFCCG. Playing it too safely down the stretch, not knowing that Clay left the game, etc., culminating in the biggest choke in franchise history. Of course people are going to start questioning the person presiding over that, players included, who may begin to resent the coach. (As an aside, the game should never have been that close after being gifted 5 turnovers.)

After 4th and 26, Sherman was viewed as making Ed Donatell and Lionel Washington scapegoats, which eventually led to Mike McKenzie's departure. Things started to slide a bit after that, and the team just wasn't as sharp as they had been.

There are signs this type of thing is happening this season too, with the young guys playing video games, Lacy's insubordination, and now the Rodgers-McCarthy beef.

I don't think all that just came out of nowhere.

Again though, probably one factor in many.

Good post.

I'm not saying anyone has to feel as strongly as I do about this,but I think it's pretty foolish to just shoot down and mock the possibility of this being a factor in Aaron Rodgers and the offense completely falling apart this season.

I also get a laugh when things like this and my mental toughness ''schtick'' get mocked and immediately shot down by some people when actual NFL players talk all the time about mental toughness and how big of a factor it is.

Hell Josh Sitton brought up the mental toughness thing involving the Packers earlier this season.

With that said my mental toughness thing has never been just about mental toughness per say,my thing is more about playing with a certain mentality.That certain mentality being an aggressive play to win mentality which the Packers have never really had under the leadership of Mike McCarthy.

That's been more my issue with Mike McCarthy on this board since 2008 than just ''mental toughness'' by itself.

[rilamann]

And the main reason the Packers choked in that game was Mike McCarthy,make no mistake about that.

You really need to stop peddling this ridiculous narrative. Say what you want about this year, but the NFCCG was lost on a special teams brain fart AKA by a player failing to execute, as well as a handful of other plays where, you know, the actual players on the field made mistakes.

I actually thought all the "mental toughness" jokes were a bit much, but now I know why people kept/keep making them. Because you literally just can't let it go...

Your perspective is that the Packers lost because Bostick botched an onside kick.

My perspective is why in the final minutes did the Packers need to secure an onside kick to win a game in which they dominated.

[rilamann]

MM was very conservative in the NFCC. However, the two biggest plays that cost GB the game were Burnett sitting down with the INT instead of taking it to the house, and Bostick ignoring the coaches on what to do on the onside, then fumbling. Those were the two biggest.

That said, I do believe there is a rift between Rodgers and MM. Way too much smoke, poor body language, and rumors out there, along with what we are seeing on the field. Hopefully there are extensive talks with all involved over the offseason because MM getting canned is unlikely.

Peppers telling Burnett to slide and then Burnett actually thinking that it was a good idea at that point in the game was the most glaring product of McCarthy's conservative play not to lose mentality.

Like the old cliche,teams take on the mentality of their coach.

That play among others are why the Packers dominated a game,got 4 turnovers and still needed an onside kick to win the game.

Burnett sliding was one of the most pussy ''play not to lose'' plays in the history of the NFL.

Burnett sliding was the McCarthy/Rodgers Packer era in a nutshell.

[LUKE23]

Peppers telling Burnett to slide and then Burnett actually thinking that it was a good idea at that point in the game was the most glaring product of McCarthy's conservative play not to lose mentality.

Like the old cliche,teams take on the mentality of their coach.

That play among others are why the Packers dominated a game,got 4 turnovers and still needed an onside kick to win the game.

Burnett sliding was one of the most pussy ''play not to lose'' plays in the history of the NFL.

Burnett sliding was the McCarthy/Rodgers Packer era in a nutshell.

So Burnett sliding is MM's fault? Hilarious.

[MickeyDavis]

Here's a good article on our offense with opinions from other teams personnel guys/coaches

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/experts-from-other-teams-see-multiple-problems-with-packers-offense-b99647555z1-364763641.html