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Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth)

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Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#1 » by TylersLakers » Thu Jan 7, 2016 3:14 pm

As we near into the second half of the season, we (as well as the front office) know where this team stands. We know who the players are who will potentially be here long term and we also know that Kobe Bryant wants to go out his own way, which he deserves. We also know where our pick situation stands. Our first rounder is Top 3 protected and whether we play veterans or not, we're pretty much locked into the second or third worst record the rest of the way. We're not going on some crazy run and pushing to make the playoffs. It's not happening and anyone who thinks that needs to have their head properly aligned. Let's be realists here with our expectations and what we are.

We also understand who our coach is. I have full confidence that if we had a good coach (and coaching staff) we'd be probably 5-7 wins better than we currently are with a loaded home schedule to go. But, such is life and there's nothing we can do at this moment to change that. So, when do we fully transition into youth mode (as well as acknowledging Kobe's farewell)? Out of this current roster, who do you want to see more of? Do we go to the D-League to try to find hidden gems on 10 day contracts during the second half of the season? What about Michael Frazier, Johnathon Holmes and Robert Upshaw --Three players that were with us in training camp but were released so we could make room for players like Brandon Bass/Roy Hibbert/Metta World Peace/Robert Sacre/Ryan Kelly?

Here are the four players that should be playing 30+ minutes a game from here on out. Whether they come off the bench or not. Try them in different combinations and different positions. Play them together if you have to. GET IT DONE:

Jordan Clarkson (32+)
D'Angelo Russell (32+)
Julius Randle (32+)
Larry Nance (25+)

You slide in Bryant to that mix playing 28-32 MPG and you can build while also acknowledging one of the greatest players to ever don the purple and gold. I also think Lou Williams should be kept because he's not a circus clown like some players on our team and he could be a consistent player for us going forward for years to come. He plays basketball the right way. He takes some tough shots at times but he also moves the ball and draws fouls. Good worker and good attitude. Low maintenance. I also don't think he minds playing on a bad team (in Los Angeles) and being a mentor to our young guards in Clarkson and Russell -- as long as he's getting minutes.

Also important is combinations and trying guys like Nance and Randle in different positions. In today's day and age, Randle can easily slide into the C spot for stretches. Draymond Green started at C in an NBA Finals series. Today's day and age it can easily be done. Byron Scott has talked about playing Nance/Randle together at the SF/PF positions. That also needs to be experimented with and a priority going forward.

We also have too many of the same types of players in the back court, which was a worry of mine coming in. Clarkson, Russell, Lou Williams -- If that is your 3 man guard rotation, and each of Clarkson and Russell get 30+ minutes and you want Lou Williams getting 25+ minutes, we're going to HAVE to go extremely small in some stretches during games, especially if we bring a guy like Michael Frazier on board.

Players that should see a significant role (20-25+ MPG):

Anthony Brown: Currently and for the past year or so while watching college basketball, I haven't thought much of him. I have a real big problem with players who are labelled as "shooters" but can't put up either a) good percentages or b) be a threat that an opposing team would game plan for. Anthony Brown falls into both of those categories. To add to that: Outside of shooting he does nothing of offensive value. Doesn't drive to the basket, doesn't have any significant athleticism, not a good ball handler, and his body isn't developed. He's pretty much like a young Trevor Ariza without the athleticism/finishing ability. And that's not a good player. Getting him minutes to see if he has anything of value is important. With that said, it's important we don't give him a consistent 20+ minutes a game. Byron Scott always talks about changing things up for 10-15 games at a time. He should be a significant minute guy in one of those 10-15 game stretches. I would like to see him play WITH Kobe Bryant and Russell at times. Maybe playing off of a guy who gets double teams (Kobe) or is a good passer (Russell, Randle) would help him. By the way, I posted something in the game thread. I'll repost it here.

Anthony Brown College Statistics:

Year 1: 41.7% FG, 35.3% 3PT
Year 2: 39.6% FG, 35.0% 3PT
Year 3: 20% FG, 33% 3PT (4 GP)
Year 4: 47.5% FG, 45.3% 3PT
Year 5: 43.1% FG, 44.1% 3PT

Mystery Player (In SEC):

Year 1: 44.6% FG, 46.8% 3PT
Year 2: 45.9% FG, 44.5% 3PT
Year 3: 42.7% FG, 38% 3PT (Missed handful of games due to ankle injury that plagued him all season)

Player: Michael Frazier, SG/PG, Florida

By the way, his conference totals for 3PT % --- 53.6% 3PT, 41.6% 3PT, 45.1% 3PT -- Also played in deep runs in NCAA Tournaments, hit big shots.


Tarik Black: Showed good things last year when he got some starts and consistent minutes off the bench. It should be the same thing after the trade deadline this year. We're wasting his potential progress from one season to the next by having him sit on the bench or play in the D-League. Needs to play in NBA competition.

Ryan Kelly: I've somewhat softened my stance on him thanks to Slava. Last night I would have been completely happy if we released him. Wouldn't have cared how much money we owe him this year. Now, I'm willing to give him a rotation spot but if he doesn't make 40% of his three pointers from this day forward to the end of the season, good riddance. Slava, his production is YOUR A**. :wink: LOL.


The Veterans:

Roy Hibbert, Brandon Bass: If only we had a playoff calibre team, I think these guys would make somewhat of sense to keep around. I love Brandon Bass and I really hate that he has to play for this team at this moment. He should be your first big off the bench, spot starter, however, our coaching staff has failed to even do that. He also plays at a position (PF) where we have young players in Randle and Nance taking up every minute. There's no spot on this team for Bass. I would love to keep him around going forward, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. We should try like heck to get anything of value for these two players by the trade deadline. If we can't, release them as soon as the deadline passes and let them sign onto a team where they can contribute. If they're okay with the losing and lack of minutes to young players, then I would be more than happy to keep them on this team going into the future at manageable contracts. Hibbert is getting worse and worse as the season goes on. Where's the player we saw in pre-season (against starting competition) who averaged almost a double double?

Nick Young: Has to go, some way. Hope to god we can find a trade and bamboozle some other team. I doubt it. We have to get to get him off this team, pronto. His shooting percentages have come back to normal Nick Young fashion and he continues to take horrendous shots. He's actually making an effort defensively these days at times, but last night was just horrendous offensively and defensively. Refuses to give any effort when he's getting screened, refuses to hustle baseline to baseline chasing shooters... it was just an absolute joke. Can we stretch him? I would honestly consider doing that. If we can't, nail him to the bench or send him home the rest of the season. Use only when necessary.

MWP: I like him as a last guy on the roster and tutoring and being a mentor to the kids. He's done an excellent job and he's never pouted or cried about his minutes once. When he does get in the game, he can be pretty good in spurts.

Marcelo Huertas, Robert Sacre -- Good bye. These two should be waived as soon as the deadline passes and no one takes them. Get rid of them as fast as you can. In the meantime, don't play them a single second.

Lineups We Should Use Going Forward:

PG: D'Angelo Russell [35]/ Clarkson [13]
SG: Jordan Clarkson [20] / Lou Williams [28]
SF: Kobe Bryant [30] / Anthony Brown [12] / Nance Jr [6] / MWP
PF: Julius Randle [25] / Nance Jr [23] /
C: Roy Hibbert [25] / Tarik Black [15] / Randle [8]


PG: D'Angelo Russell [35] / Clarkson [13]
SG: Kobe Bryant [15]/ Clarkson [18] / Lou Williams [15]
SF: Anthony Brown [15]/ Kobe Bryant [15]/ Nance Jr [18] / MWP
PF: Julius Randle [30] / Kelly [12]/ Nance Jr [6]
C: Tarik Black [25]/ Brandon Bass [23]/ Hibbert


PG: D'Angelo Russell [35]/ Clarkson [13]
SG: Jordan Clarkson [20] / Lou Williams [28] / Michael Frazier
SF: Kobe Bryant [30] / Nance Jr [28]/ MWP
PF: Julius Randle [30] / Ryan Kelly [14] / Nance Jr [4]
C: Tarik Black [25] / Robert Upshaw [23] /

^^^ This would be my hope for a lineup after the trade deadline. Also, finding a way to get Frazier involved playing with and without Kobe. Whether that takes sitting Lou Williams for a couple games or when Kobe does not play, maybe we have to go super small and play Russell/Clarkson/Frazier/Randle/Black. That can be done in today's NBA.

What is your hope going forward the rest of the season? What would you like to see?
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#2 » by Slava » Thu Jan 7, 2016 3:27 pm

Yeah, this is about time we start cutting or moving guys like Bass, Hibbert, Young and Lou and bringing up Upshaw, Frazier etc while turning the keys over to D'Angelo. Given the dearth of shooting guard talent around the league I wouldn't mind taking another look at Manny Harris either.
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#3 » by TylersLakers » Thu Jan 7, 2016 3:37 pm

Slava wrote:Yeah, this is about time we start cutting or moving guys like Bass, Hibbert, Young and Lou and bringing up Upshaw, Frazier etc while turning the keys over to D'Angelo. Given the dearth of shooting guard talent around the league I wouldn't mind taking another look at Manny Harris either.


Yup. I thought he was an NBA player when he played those two 10 day's for us. Surprised he's not in the league.

Vander Blue has also been unbelievable for our D-League team. Give him a look?
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#4 » by Slava » Thu Jan 7, 2016 3:38 pm

TylersLakers wrote:
Slava wrote:Yeah, this is about time we start cutting or moving guys like Bass, Hibbert, Young and Lou and bringing up Upshaw, Frazier etc while turning the keys over to D'Angelo. Given the dearth of shooting guard talent around the league I wouldn't mind taking another look at Manny Harris either.


Yup. I thought he was an NBA player when he played those two 10 day's for us. Surprised he's not in the league.

Vander Blue has also been unbelievable for our D-League team. Give him a look?


Vander Blue is everything you hate about Swaggy P without the talent. He's right where he belongs. The Lakers D-League team was (Please Use More Appropriate Word) enough to let him run the point for a good while.
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#5 » by N3LL » Thu Jan 7, 2016 5:02 pm

Didn't the D-Fenders trade Manny Harris to the Legends in December?
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#6 » by crazyeights » Thu Jan 7, 2016 5:30 pm

Comparing Frazier to Anthony Brown is odd, because Brown is over 6'8" in shoes with a 6'11.25" wingspan. Frazier is 6'4"; 6'8". SG is our deepest position, we simply didn't have room for another somewhat under-sized guard.

Whereas we're very thin on wing-defenders.

I could see an argument for replacing Huertas with Frazier, but he's not a PG and we'd be very thin there.
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#7 » by TylersLakers » Thu Jan 7, 2016 5:41 pm

crazyeights wrote:Comparing Frazier to Anthony Brown is odd, because Brown is over 6'8" in shoes with a 6'11.25" wingspan. Frazier is 6'4"; 6'8". SG is our deepest position, we simply didn't have room for another somewhat under-sized guard.

Whereas we're very thin on wing-defenders.

I could see an argument for replacing Huertas with Frazier, but he's not a PG and we'd be very thin there.


Was comparing them more as "shooters" because that's what both are labelled as. They're definitely different positions.

Huertas should absolutely be replaced by Frazier. We have enough ball handling guards with Clarkson, Russell, Williams who can play the point. Even Kobe can play point at times if needed. This team lacks scoring and shooting -- he can help in that area.
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#8 » by TylersLakers » Thu Jan 7, 2016 5:42 pm

Slava wrote:
TylersLakers wrote:
Slava wrote:Yeah, this is about time we start cutting or moving guys like Bass, Hibbert, Young and Lou and bringing up Upshaw, Frazier etc while turning the keys over to D'Angelo. Given the dearth of shooting guard talent around the league I wouldn't mind taking another look at Manny Harris either.


Yup. I thought he was an NBA player when he played those two 10 day's for us. Surprised he's not in the league.

Vander Blue has also been unbelievable for our D-League team. Give him a look?


Vander Blue is everything you hate about Swaggy P without the talent. He's right where he belongs. The Lakers D-League team was (Please Use More Appropriate Word) enough to let him run the point for a good while.


Ah, okay. I trust your judgement. :nod:
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#9 » by Slava » Thu Jan 7, 2016 5:48 pm

N3LL wrote:Didn't the D-Fenders trade Manny Harris to the Legends in December?


Doesn't mean we can't offer him a contract.
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#10 » by N3LL » Thu Jan 7, 2016 5:50 pm

Slava wrote:
N3LL wrote:Didn't the D-Fenders trade Manny Harris to the Legends in December?


Doesn't mean we can't offer him a contract.


I know was curious why they moved him.
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#11 » by SlimShady83 » Fri Jan 8, 2016 6:48 am

crazyeights wrote:Comparing Frazier to Anthony Brown is odd, because Brown is over 6'8" in shoes with a 6'11.25" wingspan. Frazier is 6'4"; 6'8". SG is our deepest position, we simply didn't have room for another somewhat under-sized guard.



This is the same reason why you can't compare Lebron to Kobe/Jordan both different sizes and play different positions you just can't - it's why Kobe/Jordan are "probably" the closes comparisons the NBA have ever seen.

Back on topic. Lakers trio ain't getting traded anywhere they'll all get locked up next 5 years possibly 3 but more then likely 5

Edit: I am drinking atm so hopefully you understand what I mean lol - but still going with what I said the trio Randle/Clarkson/Russell ain't going anywhere
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#12 » by lake_show » Fri Jan 8, 2016 8:49 am

Just a quick note on Athony Brown, yeah he's struggled shooting the ball, but he's also been the second best defenders among our young guys behind Nance. He was on the floor tonight for a big part of that 27 point comeback.

I look at that statistics breakdown and I see a guy who has improved his shooting over time. If he continues to show that he can defend NBA wings I have no problem keeping him around while he works on his shooting touch.
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#13 » by TylersLakers » Sat Jan 9, 2016 6:20 pm

lake_show wrote:Just a quick note on Athony Brown, yeah he's struggled shooting the ball, but he's also been the second best defenders among our young guys behind Nance. He was on the floor tonight for a big part of that 27 point comeback.

I look at that statistics breakdown and I see a guy who has improved his shooting over time. If he continues to show that he can defend NBA wings I have no problem keeping him around while he works on his shooting touch.


I would say defensively, he's looked more improved past two games in limited minutes. Hopefully he can keep that up. However, his D up until that point left a lot to be desired.

As sad as it is.. Kobe has been our best defensive player. Early season Roy Hibbert as well. However, that's completely out the window with Hibbert now, he's been awful the last 10-15 games.

Brandon Bass has been an absolute monster lately. Unless we get a 1st round pick, we shouldn't trade him. We really need to convince him to stick around and be a consistent player on this team for years to come. He's an undersized C in today's NBA, and he's been great while getting consistent minutes - which he should have been getting all along.

Trade Hibbert, release Sacre and Huertas if you can't find trades, and let's get Frazier and Upshaw up here.
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#14 » by dockingsched » Sat Jan 9, 2016 6:28 pm

I would be shocked if Robert Upshaw made an NBA roster this season. He's so so far away from being a contributor, assuming he one day becomes one.
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#15 » by KSOR24 » Sat Jan 9, 2016 6:29 pm

Kobe our best defensive player? LOL

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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#16 » by TylersLakers » Sat Jan 9, 2016 7:26 pm

KSOR24 wrote:Kobe our best defensive player? LOL

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If you disagree, go back and watch the games. He's been getting beaten, but consistently he's the only one I've seen get into a stance and put any sort of effort towards guarding.
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Re: RE: Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#17 » by KSOR24 » Sat Jan 9, 2016 7:36 pm

TylersLakers wrote:
KSOR24 wrote:Kobe our best defensive player? LOL

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If you disagree, go back and watch the games. He's been getting beaten, but consistently he's the only one I've seen get into a stance and put any sort of effort towards guarding.

I do watch the games. Just because he shows effort on some plays doesn't mean he's playing defense consistently, let alone well. I see Kobe constantly get beat and leave shooters wide open because he's too lazy to close out. He only tries when he's guarding a star like Durant. Even the stats show how bad he is. His defensive RPM is -2.95. That's worse than Russell (-2.19) and Clarkson (-2.35). The only guy who's worse on that end is Lou. Kobe hasn't played defense for years. You can't just look at one game and think it's representative of his defensive effort over the course of a season.

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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#18 » by TylersLakers » Sat Jan 9, 2016 10:32 pm

Definitely not just watching one game.

Does he get beat? Absolutely. He doesn't have the speed to get out and contest (did he ever in the last 10 years?) and he may get beat off the dribble and get scored on but if you go back and watch the majority of games he's played, you'll see someone who's fighting and actually giving effort.

That's all I ask. Clarkson is a great defender 25% of the time when he actually tries. The rest of the time, he doesn't.

Russell will get better as he works more on his body, and his D has been solid at times. I'm not worried about Russell a whole lot.

But then I see effort mistakes by Clarkson, Randle, Hibbert, Young and I go absolutely crazy.
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#19 » by milesfides » Sat Jan 9, 2016 11:21 pm

Kobe obviously has the best defensive knowledge, you can see it out there, but he quits on too many plays because, well, defense requires a lot physically, and he doesn't have that juice anymore. You could see that exertion in his movement, it's costly for him. He's not getting back on D is probably the biggest problem. Otherwise, he's doing OK in the half court.

But our entire team is pretty bad on D, noticeably out on the perimeter. Bass is probably the best overall defender. Hibbert isn't that terrible, it's tough when our guards give up so much though. But Hibbert isn't doing much on offense either and isn't rebounding well, so overall he's not doing enough. Maybe we're better off with Black or even Kelly against some matchups. Kelly is a smart defender, a good team defender like Bass. Metta is still our best wing defender. Nance is doing pretty well for a rookie. He's not going to be a basket protector, he's just not tall enough. He's also not quick enough like Marion to switch on the perimeter. But I think Bass is a good model for him, he can become a smart, energetic defender.

The biggest thing is among Clarkson, Lou, Kobe - we're giving up a lot. We really do need a 3 and D two guard. I'd give Anthony Brown 10 games with solid minutes, to see if he gets into a rhythm, if he shot comes around. That would be convenient if he could be that guy.
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Re: Post Trade Deadline/2nd Half Questions (Youth) 

Post#20 » by Slava » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:06 am

dockingsched wrote:I would be shocked if Robert Upshaw made an NBA roster this season. He's so so far away from being a contributor, assuming he one day becomes one.


Just watching the D-league highlights and reading tweets from people who follow, he seems to be making good progress. If we find a move for Hibbert and Bass, I could see us running a Black/Upshaw/Sacre rotation post all star break.
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