Kevin Love

[KingKyrie1]

So I havn't watched much Kevin Love prior to his arrival to Cleveland but I was always amazed by his frantasy stats.
When I watch him now it seems like he has back pain or something similar to it, he is running the court like an old man, he is not elevating enough on his shots too.
I try to find for clips of him playing on the Wolves and there is this one against Cousins,
When you look at Kevin Love in this clip to me his elevation on the shot and confidence is something else, his running is different too.
The awful bad thing I see is his defense and how he always looked for his own stats, check how he never helps Dieng on Cousins, he always looks to box out his own man, it seems like he just prays for the other player to miss so he could rebound the shot.

This is a bad habit and It almost seems like the cavs never really scoute the man prior to his arrival, His defense has imroved since he has no ther option, you are not gonna give poor effort on D next to Lebron but he has also regressed on Offense and his physical state I think is not good.

you could see it last night against the wolves.

your thoughts?

[yoyoboy]

I posted this in another thread.

And despite Kevin Love's struggles, he still ranks 11th in RPM and 19th in BPM. He was awesome at the beginning of the season, but recently his play has dropped off especially with us reintegrating our previously injured players like Kyrie and Shumpert.

And I think people underestimate just how impactful Kevin is even when he's struggling with his shot. Since the beginning of last year, with LeBron ON the floor and Kevin ON the floor, the team as a whole posts a 116 ORTG and a 103 DRTG. LeBron in particular scores on a 58.6% TS percentage.

On the other hand, with LeBron ON the floor and Kevin OFF the floor, the team posts a 110 ORTG and a 104 DRTG. LeBron scores on a mere 51.2% TS percentage. That's a significant disparity. It's clear that the respect Kevin gets from the outside as a shooter warps the defense so that LeBron can get much more open driving lanes, which is incredibly important at this stage of his career where he can't just blow by anyone at will anymore.

And finally there's the fact that Love has still been pretty damn good as far as production. Of course he's not going to be able to put up 26/14 again considering the talent on this roster. However, he's still averaging 18 ppg (55% TS), 12 rpg, and 3 apg per 36 minutes. Also he has a 20+ PER.

Love is playing great in his role. My only complaint is that he misses quite a few open threes, but I expect him to get back on track eventually, considering he's been a bit of a shooting slump since early November. At this point though, I feel like people are deliberately picking on Love and ignoring what he brings to the table just because he's not putting up the same numbers he was in Minnesota, which obviously wasn't going to happen in a reduced role. Look at LaMarcus Aldridge. Did he suddenly get worse, too?

[mjj0062]

He needs to make more 3 pointers thats what we brought him in for. Let him get on fire in the playoffs and we are good

[KingKyrie1]

I posted this in another thread.

And despite Kevin Love's struggles, he still ranks 11th in RPM and 19th in BPM. He was awesome at the beginning of the season, but recently his play has dropped off especially with us reintegrating our previously injured players like Kyrie and Shumpert.

And I think people underestimate just how impactful Kevin is even when he's struggling with his shot. Since the beginning of last year, with LeBron ON the floor and Kevin ON the floor, the team as a whole posts a 116 ORTG and a 103 DRTG. LeBron in particular scores on a 58.6% TS percentage.

On the other hand, with LeBron ON the floor and Kevin OFF the floor, the team posts a 110 ORTG and a 104 DRTG. LeBron scores on a mere 51.2% TS percentage. That's a significant disparity. It's clear that the respect Kevin gets from the outside as a shooter warps the defense so that LeBron can get much more open driving lanes, which is incredibly important at this stage of his career where he can't just blow by anyone at will anymore.

And finally there's the fact that Love has still been pretty damn good as far as production. Of course he's not going to be able to put up 26/14 again considering the talent on this roster. However, he's still averaging 18 ppg (55% TS), 12 rpg, and 3 apg per 36 minutes. Also he has a 20+ PER.

Love is playing great in his role. My only complaint is that he misses quite a few open threes, but I expect him to get back on track eventually, considering he's been a bit of a shooting slump since early November. At this point though, I feel like people are deliberately picking on Love and ignoring what he brings to the table just because he's not putting up the same numbers he was in Minnesota, which obviously wasn't going to happen in a reduced role. Look at LaMarcus Aldridge. Did he suddenly get worse, too?

I know he has good advanced numbers, he is a net positive no doubt about it but something is wrong about him physically and he ain't telling us nothing.

[jbk1234]

These guys aren't going to play perfect basketball for 82 games in a row. You don't see Warriors or Spurs fans freaking out every time one of their guys slumps. The only concern I'm developing is that Blatt's rotations are involving enough players. It's okay to drop a winnable game every once in a while in December/January because you're trying to rest good players and/or figure out what works. I'm hoping that once we get some distance between that No. 1 and No. 2 seed, Blatt starts to mix it up more. Other than that, things are progressing nicely.

[KingKyrie1]

These guys aren't going to play perfect basketball for 82 games in a row. You don't see Warriors or Spurs fans freaking out every time one of their guys slumps. The only concern I'm developing is that Blatt's rotations are involving enough players. It's okay to drop a winnable game every once in a while in December/January because you're trying to rest good players and/or figure out what works. I'm hoping that once we get some distance between that No. 1 and No. 2 seed, Blatt starts to mix it up more. Other than that, things are progressing nicely.

Oh yeah, Spurs freak out alot, they turn on everyone, starting from Parker to their coach Pop.
Watch Spurstalk and see,
As for us, you see a trend where we always start and getting scored on in the paint without much resistance from our bigs and I hate seeing this and this is not a championship defense and our potential at the 5 to counter that is so limited.
Warriors and Spurs don't have these breakdowns on D with their starting lineup, you know who does? Chicago, Hawks, Okc and other pretenders.

[jbk1234]

These guys aren't going to play perfect basketball for 82 games in a row. You don't see Warriors or Spurs fans freaking out every time one of their guys slumps. The only concern I'm developing is that Blatt's rotations are involving enough players. It's okay to drop a winnable game every once in a while in December/January because you're trying to rest good players and/or figure out what works. I'm hoping that once we get some distance between that No. 1 and No. 2 seed, Blatt starts to mix it up more. Other than that, things are progressing nicely.

Oh yeah, Spurs freak out alot, they turn on everyone, starting from Parker to their coach Pop.
Watch Spurstalk and see,
As for us, you see a trend where we always start and getting scored on in the paint without much resistance from our bigs and I hate seeing this and this is not a championship defense and our potential at the 5 to counter that is so limited.
Warriors and Spurs don't have these breakdowns on D with their starting lineup, you know who does? Chicago, Hawks, Okc and other pretenders.

Well Parker is as old and plays a position where that can be a real problem on D do they have cause for concern. They let two really good backup PGs go. As far as our big men, we are stacked but TT gets too much PT for my taste. That's a coaching/LBJ issue. He's overrated on that end and he's on the floor so that LBJ can switch on the PNR instead of going over or under them. Either LBJ is going to start working hard on defense or TT is going to play center so that he doesn't have to. Let's see what happens against the Spurs.

[KingKyrie1]

These guys aren't going to play perfect basketball for 82 games in a row. You don't see Warriors or Spurs fans freaking out every time one of their guys slumps. The only concern I'm developing is that Blatt's rotations are involving enough players. It's okay to drop a winnable game every once in a while in December/January because you're trying to rest good players and/or figure out what works. I'm hoping that once we get some distance between that No. 1 and No. 2 seed, Blatt starts to mix it up more. Other than that, things are progressing nicely.

Oh yeah, Spurs freak out alot, they turn on everyone, starting from Parker to their coach Pop.
Watch Spurstalk and see,
As for us, you see a trend where we always start and getting scored on in the paint without much resistance from our bigs and I hate seeing this and this is not a championship defense and our potential at the 5 to counter that is so limited.
Warriors and Spurs don't have these breakdowns on D with their starting lineup, you know who does? Chicago, Hawks, Okc and other pretenders.

Well Parker is as old and plays a position where that can be a real problem on D do they have cause for concern. They let two really good backup PGs go. As far as our big men, we are stacked but TT gets too much PT for my taste. That's a coaching/LBJ issue. He's overrated on that end and he's on the floor so that LBJ can switch on the PNR instead of going over or under them. Either LBJ is going to start working hard on defense or TT is going to play center so that he doesn't have to. Let's see what happens against the Spurs.

From what I see in todays games, no team defends with great intensity at the start of the game from their perimeter players, I don't see how Lebron can defend with intensity all 36 minutes, something gotta give.
that's why having a true rim protector is crucial, you can run 3pt shooters off the line and still have low dFG% at the rim but when we run shooters of the line there is no last line of defense so it's a real problem.

[jbk1234]

Oh yeah, Spurs freak out alot, they turn on everyone, starting from Parker to their coach Pop.
Watch Spurstalk and see,
As for us, you see a trend where we always start and getting scored on in the paint without much resistance from our bigs and I hate seeing this and this is not a championship defense and our potential at the 5 to counter that is so limited.
Warriors and Spurs don't have these breakdowns on D with their starting lineup, you know who does? Chicago, Hawks, Okc and other pretenders.

Well Parker is as old and plays a position where that can be a real problem on D do they have cause for concern. They let two really good backup PGs go. As far as our big men, we are stacked but TT gets too much PT for my taste. That's a coaching/LBJ issue. He's overrated on that end and he's on the floor so that LBJ can switch on the PNR instead of going over or under them. Either LBJ is going to start working hard on defense or TT is going to play center so that he doesn't have to. Let's see what happens against the Spurs.

From what I see in todays games, no team defends with great intensity at the start of the game from their perimeter players, I don't see how Lebron can defend with intensity all 36 minutes, something gotta give.
that's why having a true rim protector is crucial, you can run 3pt shooters off the line and still have low dFG% at the rim but when we run shooters of the line there is no last line of defense so it's a real problem.

You're not understanding. A true rim protector isn't going to switch on a PNR on the perimeter. Nor should they. Your 7 foot shot blocker doesn't need to be that far away from the basket. So long as LBJ doesn't want to go over or under the pick, we're going to be switching. So either we can have a 7 footer who stays around the basket and protects the rim, or we can have a big man who switches on the perimeter. Unless you just want to bench Love and start AV or Mozgov instead with TT. But that seems really stupid when the alternative would be not to switch on every PNR.

[KingKyrie1]

Well Parker is as old and plays a position where that can be a real problem on D do they have cause for concern. They let two really good backup PGs go. As far as our big men, we are stacked but TT gets too much PT for my taste. That's a coaching/LBJ issue. He's overrated on that end and he's on the floor so that LBJ can switch on the PNR instead of going over or under them. Either LBJ is going to start working hard on defense or TT is going to play center so that he doesn't have to. Let's see what happens against the Spurs.

From what I see in todays games, no team defends with great intensity at the start of the game from their perimeter players, I don't see how Lebron can defend with intensity all 36 minutes, something gotta give.
that's why having a true rim protector is crucial, you can run 3pt shooters off the line and still have low dFG% at the rim but when we run shooters of the line there is no last line of defense so it's a real problem.

You're not understanding. A true rim protector isn't going to switch on a PNR on the perimeter. Nor should they. Your 7 foot shot blocker doesn't need to be that far away from the basket. So long as LBJ doesn't want to go over or under the pick, we're going to be switching. So either we can have a 7 footer who stays around the basket and protects the rim, or we can have a big man who switches on the perimeter. Unless you just want to bench Love and start AV or Mozgov instead with TT. But that seems really stupid when the alternative would be not to switch on every PNR.

Now I read your posts better and it doesn't make sense, who is talking about switching? I was talking stricly about defending the rim from the 5 position, no switching just stay under the rim and help D as a basic and adjust if you problems later on in the game.
Let's set these things straight, TT is already playing Center and he is always too late on Help D and if he does help he is more worthles s than Love defending the rim, so I don't understand what you are saying, 2nd, Spurs didn't let go of two good pg's only one in Cory Joseph that was inferior to Mills, George Hill was traded for... Kawhi Leonard.
Last thing, Blatt infuriates me right now, he does not involve enough players, where u are up 17 with 4 mins to go, you clear the bench, but no, he clears the bench with 40 secs to go against the 76ers.

[jbk1234]

From what I see in todays games, no team defends with great intensity at the start of the game from their perimeter players, I don't see how Lebron can defend with intensity all 36 minutes, something gotta give.
that's why having a true rim protector is crucial, you can run 3pt shooters off the line and still have low dFG% at the rim but when we run shooters of the line there is no last line of defense so it's a real problem.

You're not understanding. A true rim protector isn't going to switch on a PNR on the perimeter. Nor should they. Your 7 foot shot blocker doesn't need to be that far away from the basket. So long as LBJ doesn't want to go over or under the pick, we're going to be switching. So either we can have a 7 footer who stays around the basket and protects the rim, or we can have a big man who switches on the perimeter. Unless you just want to bench Love and start AV or Mozgov instead with TT. But that seems really stupid when the alternative would be not to switch on every PNR.

Now I read your posts better and it doesn't make sense, who is talking about switching? I was talking stricly about defending the rim from the 5 position, no switching just stay under the rim and help D as a basic and adjust if you problems later on in the game.
Let's set these things straight, TT is already playing Center and he is always too late on Help D and if he does help he is more worthles s than Love defending the rim, so I don't understand what you are saying, 2nd, Spurs didn't let go of two good pg's only one in Cory Joseph that was inferior to Mills, George Hill was traded for... Kawhi Leonard.

It's not that complicated. TT is on the floor so much because LBJ wants TT on the floor. LBJ wants TT on the floor because he covers for LBJ's defense to the detriment of the rest of the team. Your center is guarding some wing on the perimeter. So in order to fix those rotation decencies, you've got to tell LBJ he has to cover his man on the PNR or nothing else matters.

[KingKyrie1]

You're not understanding. A true rim protector isn't going to switch on a PNR on the perimeter. Nor should they. Your 7 foot shot blocker doesn't need to be that far away from the basket. So long as LBJ doesn't want to go over or under the pick, we're going to be switching. So either we can have a 7 footer who stays around the basket and protects the rim, or we can have a big man who switches on the perimeter. Unless you just want to bench Love and start AV or Mozgov instead with TT. But that seems really stupid when the alternative would be not to switch on every PNR.

Now I read your posts better and it doesn't make sense, who is talking about switching? I was talking stricly about defending the rim from the 5 position, no switching just stay under the rim and help D as a basic and adjust if you problems later on in the game.
Let's set these things straight, TT is already playing Center and he is always too late on Help D and if he does help he is more worthles s than Love defending the rim, so I don't understand what you are saying, 2nd, Spurs didn't let go of two good pg's only one in Cory Joseph that was inferior to Mills, George Hill was traded for... Kawhi Leonard.

It's not that complicated. TT is on the floor so much because LBJ wants TT on the floor. LBJ wants TT on the floor because he covers for LBJ's defense to the detriment of the rest of the team. Your center is guarding some wing on the perimeter. So in order to fix those rotation decencies, you've got to tell LBJ he has to cover his man on the PNR or nothing else matters.

Oh so LBJ put Mozgov on the bench ?

[jbk1234]

Now I read your posts better and it doesn't make sense, who is talking about switching? I was talking stricly about defending the rim from the 5 position, no switching just stay under the rim and help D as a basic and adjust if you problems later on in the game.
Let's set these things straight, TT is already playing Center and he is always too late on Help D and if he does help he is more worthles s than Love defending the rim, so I don't understand what you are saying, 2nd, Spurs didn't let go of two good pg's only one in Cory Joseph that was inferior to Mills, George Hill was traded for... Kawhi Leonard.

It's not that complicated. TT is on the floor so much because LBJ wants TT on the floor. LBJ wants TT on the floor because he covers for LBJ's defense to the detriment of the rest of the team. Your center is guarding some wing on the perimeter. So in order to fix those rotation decencies, you've got to tell LBJ he has to cover his man on the PNR or nothing else matters.

Oh so LBJ put Mozgov on the bench ?

Yep. I'm 100% convinced that TT starting is LBJ's decision and not Blatt's.

[KingKyrie1]

It's not that complicated. TT is on the floor so much because LBJ wants TT on the floor. LBJ wants TT on the floor because he covers for LBJ's defense to the detriment of the rest of the team. Your center is guarding some wing on the perimeter. So in order to fix those rotation decencies, you've got to tell LBJ he has to cover his man on the PNR or nothing else matters.

Oh so LBJ put Mozgov on the bench ?

Yep. I'm 100% convinced that TT starting is LBJ's decision and not Blatt's.

This is sad and detrimental to the team, we aren't winning **** with a frustraded, unconfident russian center on the bench,
everytime he does something stupid or makes a mistake, Lebron gives him "the look", that's worse than I thought if true.

[yoyoboy]

Last game is exactly the type of game I Iike seeing from Love. 15 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 2 steals, along with the highest +/- on the team. In fact, he should've taken more than 11 shots, considering JR took 18 and Kyrie took 15. Those two combined to go 8-33 from the field. Love should be getting more touches at the elbow with the opportunity to create for himself and others, and he should overall be getting around 13 attempts per game minimum.

[jbk1234]

Last game is exactly the type of game I Iike seeing from Love. 15 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 2 steals, along with the highest +/- on the team. In fact, he should've taken more than 11 shots, considering JR took 18 and Kyrie took 15. Those two combined to go 8-33 from the field. Love should be getting more touches at the elbow with the opportunity to create for himself and others, and he should overall be getting around 13 attempts per game minimum.

Yeah JR needs to be on a shorter leash when he doesn't have it going. Shump, Delly and even Cunningham can play some 2 guard.

[McKenna]

Yeah JR needs to be on a shorter leash when he doesn't have it going. Shump, Delly and even Cunningham can play some 2 guard.

Blatt learnt that lesson last year. Now that Kyrie/Shump etc are back, I'd expect Blatt to be reigning him in a bit more. It depends on the context of the game though. He shoots the ball well enough to warrant periods of volume, make or miss.

It can be frustrating to watch though for sure.

[jbk1234]

Yeah JR needs to be on a shorter leash when he doesn't have it going. Shump, Delly and even Cunningham can play some 2 guard.

Blatt learnt that lesson last year. Now that Kyrie/Shump etc are back, I'd expect Blatt to be reigning him in a bit more. It depends on the context of the game though. He shoots the ball well enough to warrant periods of volume, make or miss.

It can be frustrating to watch though for sure.

For me its a question of how many attempts and how does JR allow misses to impact the rest of his game.

[Dupp]

Love is a disaster.

[yoyoboy]

Love is a disaster.

I wouldn't go that far. His defense needs work and was terrible last night, but a lot of it is Kyrie's fault because he lets other PGs right past him like a turnstile, which puts a lot more pressure on Love to defend the rim - something he obviously struggles with. But with a good rim protector at the 5 next to him (like Mozgov of last year) and a PG who can at least play average defense and not give up layup lines at the rim, Love does a great job of holding his position in the post against other PFs and he's a monster on the defensive glass.

And of course he contributes in other ways, like scoring in the post, spacing the floor, hitting a three here and there, facilitating, and such. The problem is we still don't use him right and honestly probably never will. Love always does well when we force feed him, something we do a lot in the first quarter. Then everybody forgets about him, he gets out of rhythm, and the team seriously expects him to hit big shots late in the game when he's hardly touched the ball in the prior 20 minutes. Again, he needs a few more shots per game and WAY more touches - in the post and at the elbow. That doesn't necessarily mean he needs 10+ more shots. Just giving him the ball in those areas opens up opportunities for the rest of the team, especially through his superb passing for his position.

I won't deny that Love has been in a shooting funk for the last month or so, and that's his fault, but we're not helping him with the way he's being utilized. I get that he's a third option, but time and time again, you see Smith and TT getting more shot attempts per game than the guy who averaged 26/12.5/4.5 on 59% TS just a couple years ago. Give him more opportunities to be a scorer (especially in the low post) and a facilitator, and I guarantee he'll improve massively.