Oklahoma City Thunder Regular Season 2015-2016 Part 2

[bondom34]

Wow, just and 1ed a bunch of spearsy's posts. Yeah, that was unimpressive. A few random thoughts:

RE: Kanter....yep, he sucks, no 2 ways about it. Smooth offense, no defense.

Russ has, without a doubt, been the best player on this team. I won't believe otherwise, and if I hear one more person bash his effort on defense I'll point to every other player other than Adams and Robes on the damn roster before I point at him.

Semi on that point, for all the crap Russ gets about being a ballhog, KD was that times 5 late game. He hit some clutch shots, but every possession was KD iso get outta the way unless Russ had the ball, then it moved a bit.

The bench still sucks, but I like watching Cam at least.

That's all I got right now, at least they won. Oh, and spot on w/ spearsy on the level the team is at. I literally thought the same thing about Chicago's loss and the Thunder. That's where they are, they're not good and there's no evidence they are. My only real longterm concern is KD. Is he tired or just doesn't care or checked out. Because if its the 3rd, that's really bad. I don't think it is, because he's done too much to show otherwise, but he seems off.

[KD35Brah]

Durant is taking 31% of his shots inside of 10 feet, in his three previous healthy seasons it was 36.5%, 37.7% and 37.6%. His free throw attempts are also down 3 per game. He either isn't fully back or it's a function of Donovan's offense....

He's missing floaters that he usually makes in his sleep. Missing wide open 3s, his legs don't seem be there right now. A lot of his jumpers seem short.

Him giving up the ball to Waiters all the time causally isn't Donovan's choice. That is Durant's choice and it's **** stupid.

[getrichordie]

Wow, just and 1ed a bunch of spearsy's posts. Yeah, that was unimpressive. A few random thoughts:

RE: Kanter....yep, he sucks, no 2 ways about it. Smooth offense, no defense.

Russ has, without a doubt, been the best player on this team. I won't believe otherwise, and if I hear one more person bash his effort on defense I'll point to every other player other than Adams and Robes on the damn roster before I point at him.

Semi on that point, for all the crap Russ gets about being a ballhog, KD was that times 5 late game. He hit some clutch shots, but every possession was KD iso get outta the way unless Russ had the ball, then it moved a bit.

The bench still sucks, but I like watching Cam at least.

That's all I got right now, at least they won. Oh, and spot on w/ spearsy on the level the team is at. I literally thought the same thing about Chicago's loss and the Thunder. That's where they are, they're not good and there's no evidence they are. My only real longterm concern is KD. Is he tired or just doesn't care or checked out. Because if its the 3rd, that's really bad. I don't think it is, because he's done too much to show otherwise, but he seems off.

It's so easy to go after Kanter's lack of defense, but that's like pointing out Roberson's lack of offense when you have a bunch of Tony Allen's around him. Morrow's defense was horrible. Payne can't defend very well as he is still just a rookie and needs to add about 15-20 lbs. of weight to his frame. Collison is too old and too slow nowadays and not as sharp as he used to be and Kanter's getting a worn out Ibaka's help and the worst of Durant.

With that being said, I think finding a defensively competent back up center to replace Kanter is what needs to be done which will allow our guards to do what they have done in the past and play up and really go after their guy because they know if they get beat then you will have an solid defensive frontcourt playing cornerback behind them.

[bondom34]

Wow, just and 1ed a bunch of spearsy's posts. Yeah, that was unimpressive. A few random thoughts:

RE: Kanter....yep, he sucks, no 2 ways about it. Smooth offense, no defense.

Russ has, without a doubt, been the best player on this team. I won't believe otherwise, and if I hear one more person bash his effort on defense I'll point to every other player other than Adams and Robes on the damn roster before I point at him.

Semi on that point, for all the crap Russ gets about being a ballhog, KD was that times 5 late game. He hit some clutch shots, but every possession was KD iso get outta the way unless Russ had the ball, then it moved a bit.

The bench still sucks, but I like watching Cam at least.

That's all I got right now, at least they won. Oh, and spot on w/ spearsy on the level the team is at. I literally thought the same thing about Chicago's loss and the Thunder. That's where they are, they're not good and there's no evidence they are. My only real longterm concern is KD. Is he tired or just doesn't care or checked out. Because if its the 3rd, that's really bad. I don't think it is, because he's done too much to show otherwise, but he seems off.

It's so easy to go after Kanter's lack of defense, but that's like pointing out Roberson's lack of offense when you have a bunch of Tony Allen's around him. Morrow's defense was horrible. Payne can't defend very well as he is still just a rookie and needs to add about 15-20 lbs. of weight to his frame. Collison is too old and too slow nowadays and not as sharp as he used to be and Kanter's getting a worn out Ibaka's help and the worst of Durant.

With that being said, I think finding a defensively competent back up center to replace Kanter is what needs to be done which will allow our guards to do what they have done in the past and play up and really go after their guy because they know if they get beat then you will have an solid defensive frontcourt playing cornerback behind them.

The difference being that defense is more important for a big, and Roberson at least tries on offense. He can score occasionally, you can't even say that on Kanter. Robes has always been a net positive player, with the bench or starters. Katner has never been one, ever.

[getrichordie]

Wow, just and 1ed a bunch of spearsy's posts. Yeah, that was unimpressive. A few random thoughts:

RE: Kanter....yep, he sucks, no 2 ways about it. Smooth offense, no defense.

Russ has, without a doubt, been the best player on this team. I won't believe otherwise, and if I hear one more person bash his effort on defense I'll point to every other player other than Adams and Robes on the damn roster before I point at him.

Semi on that point, for all the crap Russ gets about being a ballhog, KD was that times 5 late game. He hit some clutch shots, but every possession was KD iso get outta the way unless Russ had the ball, then it moved a bit.

The bench still sucks, but I like watching Cam at least.

That's all I got right now, at least they won. Oh, and spot on w/ spearsy on the level the team is at. I literally thought the same thing about Chicago's loss and the Thunder. That's where they are, they're not good and there's no evidence they are. My only real longterm concern is KD. Is he tired or just doesn't care or checked out. Because if its the 3rd, that's really bad. I don't think it is, because he's done too much to show otherwise, but he seems off.

It's so easy to go after Kanter's lack of defense, but that's like pointing out Roberson's lack of offense when you have a bunch of Tony Allen's around him. Morrow's defense was horrible. Payne can't defend very well as he is still just a rookie and needs to add about 15-20 lbs. of weight to his frame. Collison is too old and too slow nowadays and not as sharp as he used to be and Kanter's getting a worn out Ibaka's help and the worst of Durant.

With that being said, I think finding a defensively competent back up center to replace Kanter is what needs to be done which will allow our guards to do what they have done in the past and play up and really go after their guy because they know if they get beat then you will have an solid defensive frontcourt playing cornerback behind them.

The difference being that defense is more important for a big, and Roberson at least tries on offense. He can score occasionally, you can't even say that on Kanter. Robes has always been a net positive player, with the bench or starters. Kanter has never been one, ever.

Kanter doesn't have the defensive version of a Durant or a Westbrook making him look so good, either. The best he gets is an Ibaka that is half-rested or needs to be rested. Roberson blows assignments himself and is caught sleeping at times. And you are really going to tell me that Kanter doesn't try? The kid tries, he's just not quick enough when reading situations. It's not like he is just giving up so that's an unfair and innaccurate comparison to make. Also, Donovan leaves Kanter in for far too long when he should be subbing in Adams sooner. You get caught up in the net numbers and you aren't seeing the game for what it is. I am probably Kanter's biggest critic since we might be stuck with this guy for 4 years but I think he gets so much unneccessary blame. Sure, he is a part of the problem, but Payne, Morrow, Waiters, Durant, Westbrook, as well as Collison are just as much apart of the defensive problem on the floor when they are out there with Kanter. In theory, Kanter being closer to what Adams is helps the perimeter guys out and our perimiter guys being closer to what Roberson is helps our bigs out.

[bondom34]

It's so easy to go after Kanter's lack of defense, but that's like pointing out Roberson's lack of offense when you have a bunch of Tony Allen's around him. Morrow's defense was horrible. Payne can't defend very well as he is still just a rookie and needs to add about 15-20 lbs. of weight to his frame. Collison is too old and too slow nowadays and not as sharp as he used to be and Kanter's getting a worn out Ibaka's help and the worst of Durant.

With that being said, I think finding a defensively competent back up center to replace Kanter is what needs to be done which will allow our guards to do what they have done in the past and play up and really go after their guy because they know if they get beat then you will have an solid defensive frontcourt playing cornerback behind them.

The difference being that defense is more important for a big, and Roberson at least tries on offense. He can score occasionally, you can't even say that on Kanter. Robes has always been a net positive player, with the bench or starters. Kanter has never been one, ever.

Kanter doesn't have the defensive version of a Durant or a Westbrook making him look so good, either. The best he gets is an Ibaka that is half-rested or needs to be rested. Roberson blows assignments himself and is caught sleeping at times. And you are really going to tell me that Kanter doesn't try? The kid tries, he's just not quick enough when reading situations. It's not like he is just giving up so that's an unfair and innaccurate comparison to make. Also, Donovan leaves Kanter in for far too long when he should be subbing in Adams sooner. You get caught up in the net numbers and you aren't seeing the game for what it is. I am probably Kanter's biggest critic since we might be stuck with this guy for 4 years but I think he gets so much unneccessary blame. Sure, he is a part of the problem, but Payne, Morrow, Waiters, Durant, Westbrook, as well as Collison are just as much apart of the defensive problem on the floor when they are out there with Kanter. In theory, Kanter being closer to what Adams is helps the perimeter guys out and our perimiter guys being closer to what Roberson is helps our bigs out.

TBH, there's a reason Kante rhas been a historically bad big man defensively. Roberson on the other hand, rates out as possibly the best non KD wing on the team.

[getrichordie]

The difference being that defense is more important for a big, and Roberson at least tries on offense. He can score occasionally, you can't even say that on Kanter. Robes has always been a net positive player, with the bench or starters. Kanter has never been one, ever.

Kanter doesn't have the defensive version of a Durant or a Westbrook making him look so good, either. The best he gets is an Ibaka that is half-rested or needs to be rested. Roberson blows assignments himself and is caught sleeping at times. And you are really going to tell me that Kanter doesn't try? The kid tries, he's just not quick enough when reading situations. It's not like he is just giving up so that's an unfair and innaccurate comparison to make. Also, Donovan leaves Kanter in for far too long when he should be subbing in Adams sooner. You get caught up in the net numbers and you aren't seeing the game for what it is. I am probably Kanter's biggest critic since we might be stuck with this guy for 4 years but I think he gets so much unneccessary blame. Sure, he is a part of the problem, but Payne, Morrow, Waiters, Durant, Westbrook, as well as Collison are just as much apart of the defensive problem on the floor when they are out there with Kanter. In theory, Kanter being closer to what Adams is helps the perimeter guys out and our perimiter guys being closer to what Roberson is helps our bigs out.

TBH, there's a reason Kante rhas been a historically bad big man defensively. Roberson on the other hand, rates out as possibly the best non KD wing on the team.

I know there's a reason why he has a been terrible defensively, but it is naive to chock this game up to Enes Kanter's lack of defense. Collison even talked about how Kanter has made huge strides on defense. But you are falling in love with numbers. Roberson is going to rate out as the best wing besides KD because he plays with arguably 2 of the top 5 players in the league and Serge Ibaka who is an outstanding defender. That's not mentioning a defensively gifted (and our future) center who is a really great compliment to that line up in Steven Adams. So yeah, he's going to rate out really well. He plays almost exclusively with one of the best starting 5 in the league.

Basically, right now, the pieces on our bench don't fit right now and we have to shuffle a few things around. You can't have a center who is having defensive growing pains and a marksman (Morrow) who gets blown by on the floor at the same time for long stretches. Same goes for Payne and Waiters. This is why we need a wing who can defend so it can offset the defensive growing pains of Kanter. Just like you can have Augustin play big minutes and play virtually zero defense if you have an all around solid defensive team (Bulls). But you put him in there with a Morrow and a Kanter and teams are going on huge runs on you like it is going out of style.

[bondom34]

Kanter doesn't have the defensive version of a Durant or a Westbrook making him look so good, either. The best he gets is an Ibaka that is half-rested or needs to be rested. Roberson blows assignments himself and is caught sleeping at times. And you are really going to tell me that Kanter doesn't try? The kid tries, he's just not quick enough when reading situations. It's not like he is just giving up so that's an unfair and innaccurate comparison to make. Also, Donovan leaves Kanter in for far too long when he should be subbing in Adams sooner. You get caught up in the net numbers and you aren't seeing the game for what it is. I am probably Kanter's biggest critic since we might be stuck with this guy for 4 years but I think he gets so much unneccessary blame. Sure, he is a part of the problem, but Payne, Morrow, Waiters, Durant, Westbrook, as well as Collison are just as much apart of the defensive problem on the floor when they are out there with Kanter. In theory, Kanter being closer to what Adams is helps the perimeter guys out and our perimiter guys being closer to what Roberson is helps our bigs out.

TBH, there's a reason Kante rhas been a historically bad big man defensively. Roberson on the other hand, rates out as possibly the best non KD wing on the team.

I know there's a reason why he has a been terrible defensively, but it is naive to chock this game up to Enes Kanter's lack of defense. Collison even talked about how Kanter has made huge strides on defense. But you are falling in love with numbers. Roberson is going to rate out as the best wing besides KD because he plays with arguably 2 of the top 5 players in the league and Serge Ibaka who is an outstanding defender. That's not mentioning a defensively gifted (and our future) center who is a really great compliment to that line up in Steven Adams. So yeah, he's going to rate out really well. He plays almost exclusively with one of the best starting 5 in the league.

Basically, right now, the pieces on our bench don't fit right now and we have to shuffle a few things around. You can't have a center who is having defensive growing pains and a marksman (Morrow) who gets blown by on the floor at the same time for long stretches. Same goes for Payne and Waiters. This is why we need a wing who can defend so it can offset the defensive growing pains of Kanter. Just like you can have Augustin play big minutes and play virtually zero defense if you have an all around solid defensive team (Bulls). But you put him in there with a Morrow and a Kanter and teams are going on huge runs on you like it is going out of style.

I should have been more clear, my bad. I meant in general, not tonight. This is just a constant Kanter thing, he's just awful defensively and they won't even be able to use him in the playoffs. As bad as he is, he literally won't be usable. I'm agreeing w/ you pretty much.

[getrichordie]

TBH, there's a reason Kante rhas been a historically bad big man defensively. Roberson on the other hand, rates out as possibly the best non KD wing on the team.

I know there's a reason why he has a been terrible defensively, but it is naive to chock this game up to Enes Kanter's lack of defense. Collison even talked about how Kanter has made huge strides on defense. But you are falling in love with numbers. Roberson is going to rate out as the best wing besides KD because he plays with arguably 2 of the top 5 players in the league and Serge Ibaka who is an outstanding defender. That's not mentioning a defensively gifted (and our future) center who is a really great compliment to that line up in Steven Adams. So yeah, he's going to rate out really well. He plays almost exclusively with one of the best starting 5 in the league.

Basically, right now, the pieces on our bench don't fit right now and we have to shuffle a few things around. You can't have a center who is having defensive growing pains and a marksman (Morrow) who gets blown by on the floor at the same time for long stretches. Same goes for Payne and Waiters. This is why we need a wing who can defend so it can offset the defensive growing pains of Kanter. Just like you can have Augustin play big minutes and play virtually zero defense if you have an all around solid defensive team (Bulls). But you put him in there with a Morrow and a Kanter and teams are going on huge runs on you like it is going out of style.

I should have been more clear, my bad. I meant in general, not tonight. This is just a constant Kanter thing, he's just awful defensively and they won't even be able to use him in the playoffs. As bad as he is, he literally won't be usable. I'm agreeing w/ you pretty much.

Just from doing some player comparisons to some of the other bench bigs around the league, I mean he's pretty much in the middle of the pack in terms of plus/minus. He's literally pretty much in the middle of the pack. I've heard a lot of guys on here say they care about net ratings and what not so check this out:

This is him compared to other bench Cs who average at least 15 minutes a night:

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/?CF=GP*GE*5%7CMIN*GE*400&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&StarterBench=Bench&sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=1&PerMode=PerMinute

2.1

Also, notice that he has the highest usage rating.
The best TS%.
The best REB%.

Now, the last 10 games have been really telling: http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=PerMinute&PlayerPosition=C&StarterBench=Bench&CF=GP*GE*5%7CMIN*GE*15&LastNGames=10

Best ORtg
Worst DRtg

-3.4

But when you factor in starter Centers as well, take a look at some of the comparable numbers and surprising numbers.

Over last 10 games:

DeMarcus Cousins: -3.4
Andre Drummond: -2.5
Enes Kanter: -3.4
Tyson Chandler: -23.6
Brook Lopez: -10.7
Marc Gasol: -2.1

[bondom34]

I know there's a reason why he has a been terrible defensively, but it is naive to chock this game up to Enes Kanter's lack of defense. Collison even talked about how Kanter has made huge strides on defense. But you are falling in love with numbers. Roberson is going to rate out as the best wing besides KD because he plays with arguably 2 of the top 5 players in the league and Serge Ibaka who is an outstanding defender. That's not mentioning a defensively gifted (and our future) center who is a really great compliment to that line up in Steven Adams. So yeah, he's going to rate out really well. He plays almost exclusively with one of the best starting 5 in the league.

Basically, right now, the pieces on our bench don't fit right now and we have to shuffle a few things around. You can't have a center who is having defensive growing pains and a marksman (Morrow) who gets blown by on the floor at the same time for long stretches. Same goes for Payne and Waiters. This is why we need a wing who can defend so it can offset the defensive growing pains of Kanter. Just like you can have Augustin play big minutes and play virtually zero defense if you have an all around solid defensive team (Bulls). But you put him in there with a Morrow and a Kanter and teams are going on huge runs on you like it is going out of style.

I should have been more clear, my bad. I meant in general, not tonight. This is just a constant Kanter thing, he's just awful defensively and they won't even be able to use him in the playoffs. As bad as he is, he literally won't be usable. I'm agreeing w/ you pretty much.

Just from doing some player comparisons to some of the other bench bigs around the league, I mean he's pretty much in the middle of the pack in terms of plus/minus. He's literally pretty much in the middle of the pack. I've heard a lot of guys on here say they care about net ratings and what not so check this out:

This is him compared to other bench Cs who average at least 15 minutes a night:

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/?CF=GP*GE*5%7CMIN*GE*400&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&StarterBench=Bench&sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=1&PerMode=PerMinute

2.1

Also, notice that he has the highest usage rating.
The best TS%.
The best REB%.

Now, the last 10 games have been really telling: http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=PerMinute&PlayerPosition=C&StarterBench=Bench&CF=GP*GE*5%7CMIN*GE*15&LastNGames=10

Best ORtg
Worst DRtg

-3.4

But when you factor in starter Centers as well, take a look at some of the comparable numbers and surprising numbers.

Over last 10 games:

DeMarcus Cousins: -3.4
Andre Drummond: -2.5
Enes Kanter: -3.4
Tyson Chandler: -23.6
Brook Lopez: -10.7
Marc Gasol: -2.1

Raw plus/minus is relatively meaingless. Try an adjusted plus/minus and see what it says. Not good.

[Marcus50]

I know there's a reason why he has a been terrible defensively, but it is naive to chock this game up to Enes Kanter's lack of defense. Collison even talked about how Kanter has made huge strides on defense. But you are falling in love with numbers. Roberson is going to rate out as the best wing besides KD because he plays with arguably 2 of the top 5 players in the league and Serge Ibaka who is an outstanding defender. That's not mentioning a defensively gifted (and our future) center who is a really great compliment to that line up in Steven Adams. So yeah, he's going to rate out really well. He plays almost exclusively with one of the best starting 5 in the league.

Basically, right now, the pieces on our bench don't fit right now and we have to shuffle a few things around. You can't have a center who is having defensive growing pains and a marksman (Morrow) who gets blown by on the floor at the same time for long stretches. Same goes for Payne and Waiters. This is why we need a wing who can defend so it can offset the defensive growing pains of Kanter. Just like you can have Augustin play big minutes and play virtually zero defense if you have an all around solid defensive team (Bulls). But you put him in there with a Morrow and a Kanter and teams are going on huge runs on you like it is going out of style.

I should have been more clear, my bad. I meant in general, not tonight. This is just a constant Kanter thing, he's just awful defensively and they won't even be able to use him in the playoffs. As bad as he is, he literally won't be usable. I'm agreeing w/ you pretty much.

Just from doing some player comparisons to some of the other bench bigs around the league, I mean he's pretty much in the middle of the pack in terms of plus/minus. He's literally pretty much in the middle of the pack. I've heard a lot of guys on here say they care about net ratings and what not so check this out:

This is him compared to other bench Cs who average at least 15 minutes a night:

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/?CF=GP*GE*5%7CMIN*GE*400&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&StarterBench=Bench&sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=1&PerMode=PerMinute

2.1

Also, notice that he has the highest usage rating.
The best TS%.
The best REB%.

Now, the last 10 games have been really telling: http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=PerMinute&PlayerPosition=C&StarterBench=Bench&CF=GP*GE*5%7CMIN*GE*15&LastNGames=10

Best ORtg
Worst DRtg

-3.4

But when you factor in starter Centers as well, take a look at some of the comparable numbers and surprising numbers.

Over last 10 games:

DeMarcus Cousins: -3.4
Andre Drummond: -2.5
Enes Kanter: -3.4
Tyson Chandler: -23.6
Brook Lopez: -10.7
Marc Gasol: -2.1

I think the one thing missing from you narrative is that our starting 5 are very good because of Adams not despite him. He is a very effective center who van score as we have seen but more importantly he can be very effective without the ball. He gets by on 11% usage in a line up the has three very good shooters. In the last 4 minutes you saw his value for KD and Russ. Adams defended well but on the offensive end he sets 2 crushing screens.for KD on successive plays, 4 points and the game is done.

Kanter scored 18 points in pretty much even time tonight and that's where he is best value. Against bench units where he gets high usage and he scores efficiently. The issue for OKC his scoring is matched by porous defense but he adds real value. I like Kanter, my biggest concern with him this year was not his defense but that he could have been a locker room problem. But he has been great on and off the court with the team and seems to get on really well with the guys around him. He and Adams look to get on well and Adams is clearly learning some offensive tricks from Kanter.

I think we could solve some of Kanters defense if you put robes along side him rather than dion for much of his minutes.

[bondom34]

I should have been more clear, my bad. I meant in general, not tonight. This is just a constant Kanter thing, he's just awful defensively and they won't even be able to use him in the playoffs. As bad as he is, he literally won't be usable. I'm agreeing w/ you pretty much.

Just from doing some player comparisons to some of the other bench bigs around the league, I mean he's pretty much in the middle of the pack in terms of plus/minus. He's literally pretty much in the middle of the pack. I've heard a lot of guys on here say they care about net ratings and what not so check this out:

This is him compared to other bench Cs who average at least 15 minutes a night:

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/?CF=GP*GE*5%7CMIN*GE*400&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&StarterBench=Bench&sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=1&PerMode=PerMinute

2.1

Also, notice that he has the highest usage rating.
The best TS%.
The best REB%.

Now, the last 10 games have been really telling: http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=PerMinute&PlayerPosition=C&StarterBench=Bench&CF=GP*GE*5%7CMIN*GE*15&LastNGames=10

Best ORtg
Worst DRtg

-3.4

But when you factor in starter Centers as well, take a look at some of the comparable numbers and surprising numbers.

Over last 10 games:

DeMarcus Cousins: -3.4
Andre Drummond: -2.5
Enes Kanter: -3.4
Tyson Chandler: -23.6
Brook Lopez: -10.7
Marc Gasol: -2.1

I think the one thing missing from you narrative is that our starting 5 are very good because of Adams not despite him. He is a very effective center who van score as we have seen but more importantly he can be very effective without the ball. He gets by on 11% usage in a line up the has three very good shooters. In the last 4 minutes you saw his value for KD and Russ. Adams defended well but on the offensive end he sets 2 crushing screens.for KD on successive plays, 4 points and the game is done.

Kanter scored 18 points in pretty much even time tonight and that's where he is best value. Against bench units where he gets high usage and he scores efficiently. The issue for OKC his scoring is matched by porous defense but he adds real value. I like Kanter, my biggest concern with him this year was not his defense but that he could have been a locker room problem. But he has been great on and off the court with the team and seems to get on really well with the guys around him. He and Adams look to get on well and Adams is clearly learning some offensive tricks from Kanter.

I think we could solve some of Kanters defense if you put robes along side him rather than dion for much of his minutes.

Adams has flat out been the best defender on the team, and is really solid on offense with Russ too.

[getrichordie]

I should have been more clear, my bad. I meant in general, not tonight. This is just a constant Kanter thing, he's just awful defensively and they won't even be able to use him in the playoffs. As bad as he is, he literally won't be usable. I'm agreeing w/ you pretty much.

Just from doing some player comparisons to some of the other bench bigs around the league, I mean he's pretty much in the middle of the pack in terms of plus/minus. He's literally pretty much in the middle of the pack. I've heard a lot of guys on here say they care about net ratings and what not so check this out:

This is him compared to other bench Cs who average at least 15 minutes a night:

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/?CF=GP*GE*5%7CMIN*GE*400&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&StarterBench=Bench&sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=1&PerMode=PerMinute

2.1

Also, notice that he has the highest usage rating.
The best TS%.
The best REB%.

Now, the last 10 games have been really telling: http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=PerMinute&PlayerPosition=C&StarterBench=Bench&CF=GP*GE*5%7CMIN*GE*15&LastNGames=10

Best ORtg
Worst DRtg

-3.4

But when you factor in starter Centers as well, take a look at some of the comparable numbers and surprising numbers.

Over last 10 games:

DeMarcus Cousins: -3.4
Andre Drummond: -2.5
Enes Kanter: -3.4
Tyson Chandler: -23.6
Brook Lopez: -10.7
Marc Gasol: -2.1

I think the one thing missing from you narrative is that our starting 5 are very good because of Adams not despite him. He is a very effective center who van score as we have seen but more importantly he can be very effective without the ball. He gets by on 11% usage in a line up the has three very good shooters. In the last 4 minutes you saw his value for KD and Russ. Adams defended well but on the offensive end he sets 2 crushing screens.for KD on successive plays, 4 points and the game is done.

Kanter scored 18 points in pretty much even time tonight and that's where he is best value. Against bench units where he gets high usage and he scores efficiently. The issue for OKC his scoring is matched by porous defense but he adds real value. I like Kanter, my biggest concern with him this year was not his defense but that he could have been a locker room problem. But he has been great on and off the court with the team and seems to get on really well with the guys around him. He and Adams look to get on well and Adams is clearly learning some offensive tricks from Kanter.

I think we could solve some of Kanters defense if you put robes along side him rather than dion for much of his minutes.

By no stretch of the imagination was I suggesting that our starting 5 was thriving in spite of Adams. I was simply trying to suggest that Roberson is definitely going to be a net positive almost always because with 4 really good players. You could almost insert any decent guard with those 4 guys and it will make him look decent on paper.

But to your point, I think that is the answer. I think splitting Roberson's minutes with Morrow and minimizing Dion's is the answer. But we have to unleash Singler, which I don't think is a problem. He can't be worse than Waiters.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/RPM/position/2

But how does that leave our rotation looking? Better in my opinion. At least on paper. But I think it would actually work on the court if given time.

[spearsy23]

I know there's a reason why he has a been terrible defensively, but it is naive to chock this game up to Enes Kanter's lack of defense. Collison even talked about how Kanter has made huge strides on defense. But you are falling in love with numbers. Roberson is going to rate out as the best wing besides KD because he plays with arguably 2 of the top 5 players in the league and Serge Ibaka who is an outstanding defender. That's not mentioning a defensively gifted (and our future) center who is a really great compliment to that line up in Steven Adams. So yeah, he's going to rate out really well. He plays almost exclusively with one of the best starting 5 in the league.

Basically, right now, the pieces on our bench don't fit right now and we have to shuffle a few things around. You can't have a center who is having defensive growing pains and a marksman (Morrow) who gets blown by on the floor at the same time for long stretches. Same goes for Payne and Waiters. This is why we need a wing who can defend so it can offset the defensive growing pains of Kanter. Just like you can have Augustin play big minutes and play virtually zero defense if you have an all around solid defensive team (Bulls). But you put him in there with a Morrow and a Kanter and teams are going on huge runs on you like it is going out of style.

I should have been more clear, my bad. I meant in general, not tonight. This is just a constant Kanter thing, he's just awful defensively and they won't even be able to use him in the playoffs. As bad as he is, he literally won't be usable. I'm agreeing w/ you pretty much.

Just from doing some player comparisons to some of the other bench bigs around the league, I mean he's pretty much in the middle of the pack in terms of plus/minus. He's literally pretty much in the middle of the pack. I've heard a lot of guys on here say they care about net ratings and what not so check this out:

This is him compared to other bench Cs who average at least 15 minutes a night:

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/?CF=GP*GE*5%7CMIN*GE*400&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&StarterBench=Bench&sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=1&PerMode=PerMinute

2.1

Also, notice that he has the highest usage rating.
The best TS%.
The best REB%.

Now, the last 10 games have been really telling: http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=PerMinute&PlayerPosition=C&StarterBench=Bench&CF=GP*GE*5%7CMIN*GE*15&LastNGames=10

Best ORtg
Worst DRtg

-3.4

But when you factor in starter Centers as well, take a look at some of the comparable numbers and surprising numbers.

Over last 10 games:

DeMarcus Cousins: -3.4
Andre Drummond: -2.5
Enes Kanter: -3.4
Tyson Chandler: -23.6
Brook Lopez: -10.7
Marc Gasol: -2.1

The problem with that -3.4 is that with Kanter off the court we run at a net of approximately +11.5. That means he's actually contributing to a tune of -15 over those ten games. That's just flat embarrassing

[spearsy23]

Just from doing some player comparisons to some of the other bench bigs around the league, I mean he's pretty much in the middle of the pack in terms of plus/minus. He's literally pretty much in the middle of the pack. I've heard a lot of guys on here say they care about net ratings and what not so check this out:

This is him compared to other bench Cs who average at least 15 minutes a night:

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/?CF=GP*GE*5%7CMIN*GE*400&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=C&StarterBench=Bench&sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=1&PerMode=PerMinute

2.1

Also, notice that he has the highest usage rating.
The best TS%.
The best REB%.

Now, the last 10 games have been really telling: http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=PerMinute&PlayerPosition=C&StarterBench=Bench&CF=GP*GE*5%7CMIN*GE*15&LastNGames=10

Best ORtg
Worst DRtg

-3.4

But when you factor in starter Centers as well, take a look at some of the comparable numbers and surprising numbers.

Over last 10 games:

DeMarcus Cousins: -3.4
Andre Drummond: -2.5
Enes Kanter: -3.4
Tyson Chandler: -23.6
Brook Lopez: -10.7
Marc Gasol: -2.1

I think the one thing missing from you narrative is that our starting 5 are very good because of Adams not despite him. He is a very effective center who van score as we have seen but more importantly he can be very effective without the ball. He gets by on 11% usage in a line up the has three very good shooters. In the last 4 minutes you saw his value for KD and Russ. Adams defended well but on the offensive end he sets 2 crushing screens.for KD on successive plays, 4 points and the game is done.

Kanter scored 18 points in pretty much even time tonight and that's where he is best value. Against bench units where he gets high usage and he scores efficiently. The issue for OKC his scoring is matched by porous defense but he adds real value. I like Kanter, my biggest concern with him this year was not his defense but that he could have been a locker room problem. But he has been great on and off the court with the team and seems to get on really well with the guys around him. He and Adams look to get on well and Adams is clearly learning some offensive tricks from Kanter.

I think we could solve some of Kanters defense if you put robes along side him rather than dion for much of his minutes.

By no stretch of the imagination was I suggesting that our starting 5 was thriving in spite of Adams. I was simply trying to suggest that Roberson is definitely going to be a net positive almost always because with 4 really good players. You could almost insert any decent guard with those 4 guys and it will make him look decent on paper.

But to your point, I think that is the answer. I think splitting Roberson's minutes with Morrow and minimizing Dion's is the answer. But we have to unleash Singler, which I don't think is a problem. He can't be worse than Waiters.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/RPM/position/2

But how does that leave our rotation looking? Better in my opinion. At least on paper. But I think it would actually work on the court if given time.

Last year Roberson played without Russ, KD, Ibaka, and Steven for lengthy stretches and rated as the second best defensive shooting guard in the league.

[getrichordie]

I think the one thing missing from you narrative is that our starting 5 are very good because of Adams not despite him. He is a very effective center who van score as we have seen but more importantly he can be very effective without the ball. He gets by on 11% usage in a line up the has three very good shooters. In the last 4 minutes you saw his value for KD and Russ. Adams defended well but on the offensive end he sets 2 crushing screens.for KD on successive plays, 4 points and the game is done.

Kanter scored 18 points in pretty much even time tonight and that's where he is best value. Against bench units where he gets high usage and he scores efficiently. The issue for OKC his scoring is matched by porous defense but he adds real value. I like Kanter, my biggest concern with him this year was not his defense but that he could have been a locker room problem. But he has been great on and off the court with the team and seems to get on really well with the guys around him. He and Adams look to get on well and Adams is clearly learning some offensive tricks from Kanter.

I think we could solve some of Kanters defense if you put robes along side him rather than dion for much of his minutes.

By no stretch of the imagination was I suggesting that our starting 5 was thriving in spite of Adams. I was simply trying to suggest that Roberson is definitely going to be a net positive almost always because with 4 really good players. You could almost insert any decent guard with those 4 guys and it will make him look decent on paper.

But to your point, I think that is the answer. I think splitting Roberson's minutes with Morrow and minimizing Dion's is the answer. But we have to unleash Singler, which I don't think is a problem. He can't be worse than Waiters.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/RPM/position/2

But how does that leave our rotation looking? Better in my opinion. At least on paper. But I think it would actually work on the court if given time.

Last year Roberson played without Russ, KD, Ibaka, and Steven for lengthy stretches and rated as the second best defensive shooting guard in the league.

Well, I would imagine. He was playing back-ups.

[spearsy23]

I think we could solve some of Kanters defense if you put robes along side him rather than dion for much of his minutes.

Could it solve some problems? Probably, I mean obviously playing him with good defenders is better than playing him with crappy ones, but at this level guards are going to get beat and as long as there isn't any rim protection the defense will still suck. The problem is that we aren't going to find a bench version of Serge, so as long as Kanter is here we aren't going to ever have a good bench defense. Any attempts to fix it without Kanter leaving or improving are like putting a stick in a river, it might flow a little differently but it's not stopping the water. If we had 4 good defenders to surround him with we might be able to build a dam, but that would require an entire roster overhaul.

[bondom34]

By no stretch of the imagination was I suggesting that our starting 5 was thriving in spite of Adams. I was simply trying to suggest that Roberson is definitely going to be a net positive almost always because with 4 really good players. You could almost insert any decent guard with those 4 guys and it will make him look decent on paper.

But to your point, I think that is the answer. I think splitting Roberson's minutes with Morrow and minimizing Dion's is the answer. But we have to unleash Singler, which I don't think is a problem. He can't be worse than Waiters.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/RPM/position/2

But how does that leave our rotation looking? Better in my opinion. At least on paper. But I think it would actually work on the court if given time.

Last year Roberson played without Russ, KD, Ibaka, and Steven for lengthy stretches and rated as the second best defensive shooting guard in the league.

Well, I would imagine. He was playing back-ups.

Except he still rates the same this year. So he's elite either way.

[spearsy23]

By no stretch of the imagination was I suggesting that our starting 5 was thriving in spite of Adams. I was simply trying to suggest that Roberson is definitely going to be a net positive almost always because with 4 really good players. You could almost insert any decent guard with those 4 guys and it will make him look decent on paper.

But to your point, I think that is the answer. I think splitting Roberson's minutes with Morrow and minimizing Dion's is the answer. But we have to unleash Singler, which I don't think is a problem. He can't be worse than Waiters.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/RPM/position/2

But how does that leave our rotation looking? Better in my opinion. At least on paper. But I think it would actually work on the court if given time.

Last year Roberson played without Russ, KD, Ibaka, and Steven for lengthy stretches and rated as the second best defensive shooting guard in the league.

Well, I would imagine. He was playing back-ups.

He started 65 of the 67 games he played.

[getrichordie]

Well, I would imagine Roberson was rated as the second best defensive SG in the league last year. He was playing a lot of back-ups.

---

In other news...

Billy Donovan talks first quarter defense, defeating Minnesota: http://www.foxsports.com/video?vid=600877123577

"There were some spurts there in the second and fourth that I believe we had some opportunities to open up and capitalize." - Donovan

"It felt like I need to get it going in the first three quarters," said Durant, who was 7 for 21 through three periods. "I can't just come out and try to save the game and make shots in the fourth. I've got to get it going earlier. I've got to make shots, man. That's what it's about."

source: http://www.foxsports.com/southwest/story/kevin-durant-thunder-hold-off-timberwolves-011216


So, this gives us some insight into why Durant was hoisting some questionable shots this game.

Donovan picked up his first career technical foul while arguing for a goaltending call in the first quarter.

source: http://www.foxsports.com/southwest/story/kevin-durant-thunder-hold-off-timberwolves-011216

---

“We’re not good (enough) yet to do that,” Durant said, sitting courtside Tuesday morning at the Target Center after shootaround. “San Antonio, Golden State, they can do that; they can coast then turn it on in the fourth quarter and win the game. We can’t do it. So, we’ve gotta be on from the beginning of the game.

“We’re not that good yet to do that. We all know that; we all know we have to be better.”

Durant also said OKC's defense "can guard anybody when we put our minds to it," and that the loss to Portland on Sunday was a game where players just made shots, particularly Damian Lillard -- who hit five 3-pointers in the final 3:07.

source: http://newsok.com/article/5472107

Good to know where Durant's head is at right now.