Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread (Part 2)

[ATLHawksfan21]

-How in the world would we be better off with letting Millsap walk?

-Noah is finished

-It was impossible to keep both Demarre and Paul and Bud made the right choice on the one to keep.

I agree with your premise that this could end up being a treadmill team if this nucleus stays; however, I have to disagree with pretty much every other point. We have several nice pieces and it would be foolish to blow it up and chase the lottery for who knows how many years. We have better odds of becoming a contender by getting lucky and finding that missing piece through FA or the draft than we do starting from scratch.

[MaceCase]

If youre telling me the future is
21 million PM
25 Million Al Horford
8 MIllion Tiago SPlitter
8 MIllion Jeff Teague
9 Million Korver/Thabo

THATS 71 MILLION DOLLARS RIGHT THERE.........

What is the significance of the 71 million to you? The cap is projected at ~89 million in 2016 and perhaps close to 110 million in 2017. That doesn't even take into account the luxury tax which is way above those thresholds, so it would seem to indicate that there is a ton of money left for flexibility.

[PandaKidd]

You will prob lose bazemore in FA (if we wouldnt pay DMC what makes you think they pay Bazemore?)

They lost DeMarre because they couldn't pay him not because they wouldn't. Due to cap restrictions and not having full Bird rights they didn't have the option of retaining both Millsap and DeMarre at their prices so they made the decision of going with the All Star big man. Bazemore's free agency is different because the Hawks can use cap space to retain him and then go over the cap to retain Al because they have his full Bird rights.

do you think that is a winning forumla?

[PandaKidd]

If youre telling me the future is
21 million PM
25 Million Al Horford
8 MIllion Tiago SPlitter
8 MIllion Jeff Teague
9 Million Korver/Thabo

THATS 71 MILLION DOLLARS RIGHT THERE.........

What is the significance of the 71 million to you? The cap is projected at ~89 million in 2016 and perhaps close to 110 million in 2017. That doesn't even take into account the luxury tax which is way above those thresholds, so it would seem to indicate that there is a ton of money left for flexibility.

71 million in 6 players, 6 players that (lets assume) we already know arent good enough to win a championship. So unless you plan on signing.................who? at SG/SF that is drastically going to change the face of this team?

[PandaKidd]

-How in the world would we be better off with letting Millsap walk?

-Noah is finished

-It was impossible to keep both Demarre and Paul and Bud made the right choice on the one to keep.

I agree with your premise that this could end up being a treadmill team if this nucleus stays; however, I have to disagree with pretty much every other point. We have several nice pieces and it would be foolish to blow it up and chase the lottery for who knows how many years. We have better odds of becoming a contender by getting lucky and finding that missing piece through FA or the draft than we do starting from scratch.

I know it was impossible, but is this team really going to go over the cap into luxury to keep AH and Bazemore.

Do any of you realistically think that next season our starting 5 is:
Teague/DS
Baze
Thabo/Korver
PM
AH

and we are somehow better? I mean unless we trade Korver (whose value is falling off a cliff). Im not sure how we get over the "hump" if we keep the status quo and keep doing away with draft picks.

Im simply stating, Id rather go through a losing season or 2 and reboot. I know what im looking at, and its not beating LEBRON/CLE/ GSW/SPurs or any other western team in the next 2 yaers (as currently constructed)

[MaceCase]

You will prob lose bazemore in FA (if we wouldnt pay DMC what makes you think they pay Bazemore?)

They lost DeMarre because they couldn't pay him not because they wouldn't. Due to cap restrictions and not having full Bird rights they didn't have the option of retaining both Millsap and DeMarre at their prices so they made the decision of going with the All Star big man. Bazemore's free agency is different because the Hawks can use cap space to retain him and then go over the cap to retain Al because they have his full Bird rights.

do you think that is a winning forumla?

You're free to make up your own definition of "winning formula", I was simply stating that your assertion was incorrect.

Given that the team was tops in the East last year and is yet again amongst the tops of the East this year I'd say it's a rather viable strategy though and, as I've pointed out in your other post, the Hawks still maintain copious amounts of flexibility.

[PandaKidd]

We have better odds of becoming a contender by getting lucky and finding that missing piece through FA or the draft than we do starting from scratch.

Considering that has NEVER worked for us, EVER. EVER EVER EVER.

No one wants to come here unless we overpay, and the only people we are going to overpay is AH. What are your hopes inFA? to sign WHO?

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-salaries/nba-free-agents-2016-2017/

Chandler Parsons?

[PandaKidd]

They lost DeMarre because they couldn't pay him not because they wouldn't. Due to cap restrictions and not having full Bird rights they didn't have the option of retaining both Millsap and DeMarre at their prices so they made the decision of going with the All Star big man. Bazemore's free agency is different because the Hawks can use cap space to retain him and then go over the cap to retain Al because they have his full Bird rights.

do you think that is a winning forumla?

You're free to make up your own definition of "winning formula", I was simply stating that your assertion was incorrect.

Given that the team was tops in the East last year and is yet again amongst the tops of the East this year I'd say it's a rather viable strategy though and, as I've pointed out in your other post, the Hawks still maintain copious amounts of flexibility.

tops in the east that was terrible and we had a 40 game stretch that was completely uncharacteristic and hasnt been seen since.

So lets call a spade a spade. Great season, great for the fans and team, but has still yet to be duplicated.

[Jamaaliver]

At this point, unless they drastically play MUCH different ive come to 2 conclusions:

1) Move Horford for something even draft picks (CALL BOSTON)
2) Trade teague even if its just Draft Picks.

We have no young talent in the pipeline, we have squandered draft choices outside of DS. You will prob lose bazemore in FA (if we wouldnt pay DMC what makes you think they pay Bazemore?)

a front court of PM/AH with only hinging on DS being lightyears better than Teague, sorry, that isnt getting it done. Thabo is old and aging, Korver is not going to shoot like he did last year and is aging.

I think im gaining perspective on last year, and current ownership , IMO is scared to do a reboot or soft retool because of what happened last year. They are scared if we suck or are mediocre for 1-2 years they will lose all the credit they built up last year.

BINGO my man.

We've made choices the last couple of summers that have sealed our fate with this core. And unless we have another 17-0 month coming soon...or another 33-2 run in the bag, we likely won't separate ourselves from the Heat, Pacers, Bulls enough to guarantee an easy playoff run.


The thing about trading Horford is that he would not likely bring back top value in return.

Teague and Millsap however could. Millsap is playing great and has more years under contract. With Splitter on board, we can absorb the blow of losing PM in the meanwhile and demand high value for him in trade.

Remember, trade stocks at their highest, not their lowest.

if we were gonna trade Horford, it should have been done last summer.

[jayu70]

do you think that is a winning forumla?

You're free to make up your own definition of "winning formula", I was simply stating that your assertion was incorrect.

Given that the team was tops in the East last year and is yet again amongst the tops of the East this year I'd say it's a rather viable strategy though and, as I've pointed out in your other post, the Hawks still maintain copious amounts of flexibility.

tops in the east that was terrible and we had a 40 game stretch that was completely uncharacteristic and hasnt been seen since.

So lets call a spade a spade. Great season, great for the fans and team, but has still yet to be duplicated.

How can it be duplicated when it just happened last season and we are not halfway through THIS season.
At least let it play out.
Even if we do as you suggest and move Teague and Al for PICKS - how do we duplicate the 60 wins and ECF this season or even next?

[MaceCase]

If youre telling me the future is
21 million PM
25 Million Al Horford
8 MIllion Tiago SPlitter
8 MIllion Jeff Teague
9 Million Korver/Thabo

THATS 71 MILLION DOLLARS RIGHT THERE.........

What is the significance of the 71 million to you? The cap is projected at ~89 million in 2016 and perhaps close to 110 million in 2017. That doesn't even take into account the luxury tax which is way above those thresholds, so it would seem to indicate that there is a ton of money left for flexibility.

71 million in 6 players, 6 players that (lets assume) we already know arent good enough to win a championship. So unless you plan on signing.................who? at SG/SF that is drastically going to change the face of this team?

I think you need to take the time and actually discover the percentage of the cap that is typically taken up by players throughout the league before you begin to make any assertions. You seem to be of the belief that by yelling "71 MILLION!" that that is a significant point within itself. It's not. My simple point is that you're attempting to make an assertion on the Hawks potentially locking themselves in to the current core with little avenues for improvement when the facts don't back that up i.e. a team should be able to fill out 6 roster spots with 3 draft picks (the rights to 2 others) and around 20 million to work with.

[PandaKidd]

Once you sign AH to a max contract, and if you sign Bazemore (like you are suggesting we can do), your starters are SET man. SET. That is my point yelling 71 million dollars.

You going to act like we are going to get to championship caliber basketball by improving the bench?

[PandaKidd]

You're free to make up your own definition of "winning formula", I was simply stating that your assertion was incorrect.

Given that the team was tops in the East last year and is yet again amongst the tops of the East this year I'd say it's a rather viable strategy though and, as I've pointed out in your other post, the Hawks still maintain copious amounts of flexibility.

tops in the east that was terrible and we had a 40 game stretch that was completely uncharacteristic and hasnt been seen since.

So lets call a spade a spade. Great season, great for the fans and team, but has still yet to be duplicated.

How can it be duplicated when it just happened last season and we are not halfway through THIS season.
At least let it play out.
Even if we do as you suggest and move Teague and Al for PICKS - how do we duplicate the 60 wins and ECF this season or even next?

I havent seen the JAN hawks in 60+ games? (including playoffs).

Does the team resemble that team at all right now?

[PandaKidd]

At this point, unless they drastically play MUCH different ive come to 2 conclusions:

1) Move Horford for something even draft picks (CALL BOSTON)
2) Trade teague even if its just Draft Picks.

We have no young talent in the pipeline, we have squandered draft choices outside of DS. You will prob lose bazemore in FA (if we wouldnt pay DMC what makes you think they pay Bazemore?)

a front court of PM/AH with only hinging on DS being lightyears better than Teague, sorry, that isnt getting it done. Thabo is old and aging, Korver is not going to shoot like he did last year and is aging.

I think im gaining perspective on last year, and current ownership , IMO is scared to do a reboot or soft retool because of what happened last year. They are scared if we suck or are mediocre for 1-2 years they will lose all the credit they built up last year.

BINGO my man.

We've made choices the last couple of summers that have sealed our fate with this core. And unless we have another 17-0 month coming soon...or another 33-2 run in the bag, we likely won't separate ourselves from the Heat, Pacers, Bulls enough to guarantee an easy playoff run.


The thing about trading Horford is that he would not likely bring back top value in return.

Teague and Millsap however could. Millsap is playing great and has more years under contract. With Splitter on board, we can absorb the blow of losing PM in the meanwhile and demand high value for him in trade.

Remember, trade stocks at their highest, not their lowest.

if we were gonna trade Horford, it should have been done last summer.

I thought there was a rule against Trading Millsap in the first year doe?

Teague should be shopped and I dont care if its for a late 1st or 2nd round pick. I cant believe i just typed that.

I would be shopping Korver too, can we land Kevin Martin?

[MaceCase]

do you think that is a winning forumla?

You're free to make up your own definition of "winning formula", I was simply stating that your assertion was incorrect.

Given that the team was tops in the East last year and is yet again amongst the tops of the East this year I'd say it's a rather viable strategy though and, as I've pointed out in your other post, the Hawks still maintain copious amounts of flexibility.

tops in the east that was terrible and we had a 40 game stretch that was completely uncharacteristic and hasnt been seen since.

So lets call a spade a spade. Great season, great for the fans and team, but has still yet to be duplicated.

sigh. Okay. Let's try this again. They were 1st in what was allegedly a "terrible" East and are now currently 3rd in a.....how would you describe the East this year? Not terrible? Oh so then the Hawks being the 3rd best team almost halfway through the season is what? Not great?

[jayu70]

tops in the east that was terrible and we had a 40 game stretch that was completely uncharacteristic and hasnt been seen since.

So lets call a spade a spade. Great season, great for the fans and team, but has still yet to be duplicated.

How can it be duplicated when it just happened last season and we are not halfway through THIS season.
At least let it play out.
Even if we do as you suggest and move Teague and Al for PICKS - how do we duplicate the 60 wins and ECF this season or even next?

I havent seen the JAN hawks in 60+ games? (including playoffs).

Does the team resemble that team at all right now?

So how does trading Al and Teague give you the JAN Hawks? What if we get APRIL Hawks?
I'm more concerned with making another trip to the ECFs than 60 wins.

[MaceCase]

Once you sign AH to a max contract, and if you sign Bazemore (like you are suggesting we can do), your starters are SET man. SET. That is my point yelling 71 million dollars.

You going to act like we are going to get to championship caliber basketball by improving the bench?

Your point is irrelevant because A) price doesn't set starting lineups (your listing of Splitter should have given that away) and B) I'm pointing out repeatedly that the price isn't restrictive. So no, nothing is set.

[PandaKidd]

You're free to make up your own definition of "winning formula", I was simply stating that your assertion was incorrect.

Given that the team was tops in the East last year and is yet again amongst the tops of the East this year I'd say it's a rather viable strategy though and, as I've pointed out in your other post, the Hawks still maintain copious amounts of flexibility.

tops in the east that was terrible and we had a 40 game stretch that was completely uncharacteristic and hasnt been seen since.

So lets call a spade a spade. Great season, great for the fans and team, but has still yet to be duplicated.

sigh. Okay. Let's try this again. They were 1st in what was allegedly a "terrible" East and are now currently 3rd in a.....how would you describe the East this year? Not terrible? Oh so then the Hawks being the 3rd best team almost halfway through the season is what? Not great?

Marginally better?

Look im just going by my eye test. I think the east got better, and the rest of the Hawks regressed back to what they are, a mediocre team with a low ceiling. A team that CAN compete with almost anyone, but not going to go far in the playoffs.

I see the April Hawks, a team that struggles to shoot, struggles to find consistency, struggles on some nights and then looks like world beaters the next.

Im not saying that the hawks STINK, im saying they arent winning a championship. I dont see a sustainable level of elite play from this team and its been long enough since THE STREAK that I dont believe THE STREAK was the norm.

To be fair, theres prob 25 teams that are in the same place (Not good enough to win a championship). So I completely understand the reaction to my "TRADE EVERYONE" feeling.

Wheres your hope? Our savior is who? Korver? Bazemore? Who is the guy that is stepping up their play? My only point is before you lock yourself into the SAME STARTING 5 AGAIN for next year, maybe make some calls and think about getting draft picks and making a run at the FINALS

[PandaKidd]

Once you sign AH to a max contract, and if you sign Bazemore (like you are suggesting we can do), your starters are SET man. SET. That is my point yelling 71 million dollars.

You going to act like we are going to get to championship caliber basketball by improving the bench?

Your point is irrelevant because A) price doesn't set starting lineups (your listing of Splitter should have given that away) and B) I'm pointing out repeatedly that the price isn't restrictive. So no, nothing is set.

In your scenario these are yuor starters:
TEAGUE/DS (If Teague isnt traded hes here next year, if hes traded DS is your starter)
Paul Millsap
Al Horford
Kent bazemore

Those guys are being signed for STARTING pay. Period. so the only spot left is SF/SG, of which, you have Korver AND THABO on the books already. You also have Splitter on the books.

Theres not much room to bring in anyone unless you are moving someone off my list to the bench.

So ..............who is it?

Ok so we dont resign Bazemore and we sign...........who? Find me a SG who drastically changes this team.

[Jamaaliver]

I thought there was a rule against Trading Millsap in the first year doe?

Teague should be shopped and I dont care if its for a late 1st or 2nd round pick. I cant believe i just typed that.

I would be shopping Korver too, can we land Kevin Martin?

That deadline is sometime this month. After mid-January, newly signed Free Agents from summer 2015 can indeed be traded.

I'm more concerned with making another trip to the ECFs than 60 wins.

Is it really worth going all out to lose in the ECF to CLE again?

Is the season a success if we lose in Game 5 of the Finals Conference Finals this season but next season feature an aging lineup of over the hill substars?