Celtics need to send IT back to the bench

[Celts17Pride]

Celtics with IT as a starter 18-17 .514
Celtics with IT as 6th man 15-9 .625

59 games

Again I think this says more about the bench than IT.

[Banks2Pierce]

If they had a reliable positive mismatch down low instead of negative ones, the guards/wings would routinely have open looks. The offense wouldn't depend on one 5'9" guy creating amazing stuff all the time.

I feel like there are 2 teams that use post-ups off the bench effectively. It's dying. Most successful teams have 2 capable offensive players that they stagger in and out so that one is in the game at all times or have the backup unit run spread pick and roll with either 3 or 4 out and a guard or wing that can effectively either drive, shoot, or both.

[tfribs45]

This team blows on offense, so lets give our best offensive threat less minutes. Makes sense no?!

[Banks2Pierce]

This team blows on offense, so lets give our best offensive threat less minutes. Makes sense no?!

You can give him the same amount of minutes, but match him up against bench defenses. It's a valid argument. Our formula late last season was to keep it close to even or even and then the bench blew games open. This year, the starters are keeping it close and then the bench is keeping it close or giving up ground. We end up in close games at the end. There's no obvious answer.

[Parliament10]

This is one man's opinion and is certainly open to debate.

I believe the Celtics need to bring IT back off the bench as the 6th man and start Marcus Smart for a few reasons.

If people can remember in the beginning of this season the Celtics had an aggressive defensive identity to start games which lead to easy offense (yes the offense did struggle on the first unit) but they would set the tone and then IT would come off the bench and clean up. I believe the Celtics have lost this identity and need to get back to that as a unit.

When IT starts and then goes to the bench the Celtics have no offense. Zero. IT then has to come into the game and play hero ball just to give them a chance. Game after game IT as a starter puts up 30+ points and the Celtics lose. If the goal is to get IT to the all-star game then this is the way to go. If the goal is to win I don't think this is the right path.

Secondly, the Celtics need to find out is Marcus Smart is the player they think he can be and is he part of the future. The only way they are going to find out is if the play him heavy minutes. Smart needs minutes to improve if he is going to improve.

IT can come off the bench and play with Lee, Jerebko, Young, Zeller, Sully, Hunter etc. and score points. Turner and Smart can not. This is not a knock on IT at all in fact it's kudos that he can play with anyone.

I believe what's best for the Celtics is IT back as the 6th man. If the Celtics stick to IT starting I believe you are going to see a lot of IT scoring 30+ points and the Celtics losing. Celtics are 1-3 when IT scores 30+ points this season. This doesn't help anyone because the Celtics lose and they still won't know what they have in Marcus Smart.

Your opinions are appreciated.

I Second your Opinion.

Isaiah Thomas, was also our best player last year (by far). He came off the bench then. I like this idea. Just like, putting Smart on Porzingis; which worked. We gotta get back to being Unconventional, and Hungry. That's how we did so well at the end of last year (24-12).

[Green89]

Smart is shooting 31% for the season, which isn't enough to even earn playing time in the NBA, let alone start. Your argument would be more sound if you picked Turner and AB to start, because Smart in no way deserves to be a starter in this league with his horrendous shooting. Only Ricky Rubio shoots nearly as bad (34% and still better than Smart) and starts, but it's because he averages 8.8 assists per game with a PER of 17.97. Smart's PER is 10.39. There's no way he should be starting this season.

[Cyclical]

This is one man's opinion and is certainly open to debate.

I believe the Celtics need to bring IT back off the bench as the 6th man and start Marcus Smart for a few reasons.

If people can remember in the beginning of this season the Celtics had an aggressive defensive identity to start games which lead to easy offense (yes the offense did struggle on the first unit) but they would set the tone and then IT would come off the bench and clean up. I believe the Celtics have lost this identity and need to get back to that as a unit.

When IT starts and then goes to the bench the Celtics have no offense. Zero. IT then has to come into the game and play hero ball just to give them a chance. Game after game IT as a starter puts up 30+ points and the Celtics lose. If the goal is to get IT to the all-star game then this is the way to go. If the goal is to win I don't think this is the right path.

Secondly, the Celtics need to find out is Marcus Smart is the player they think he can be and is he part of the future. The only way they are going to find out is if the play him heavy minutes. Smart needs minutes to improve if he is going to improve.

IT can come off the bench and play with Lee, Jerebko, Young, Zeller, Sully, Hunter etc. and score points. Turner and Smart can not. This is not a knock on IT at all in fact it's kudos that he can play with anyone.

I believe what's best for the Celtics is IT back as the 6th man. If the Celtics stick to IT starting I believe you are going to see a lot of IT scoring 30+ points and the Celtics losing. Celtics are 1-3 when IT scores 30+ points this season. This doesn't help anyone because the Celtics lose and they still won't know what they have in Marcus Smart.

Your opinions are appreciated.

I Second your Opinion.

Isaiah Thomas, was also our best player last year (by far). He came off the bench then. I like this idea. Just like, putting Smart on Porzingis; which worked. We gotta get back to being Unconventional, and Hungry. That's how we did so well at the end of last year (24-12).

I'll third it.

I love Isaiah but I'm not crazy about how our TEAM PLAY always looks with him in the lineup. He's a fantastic scorer with amazing skill but he's no Allan Iverson - a player so transcendent that you can overlook that fact. There's a limit to what he can do and if the other teams focuses on him they can stop us cold in our tracks. Let's go back to establishing ball movement; establishing a stifling defense. Soften the other team first, like a boxer dishing out seemingly boring body blows for 8 rounds so he can finish off the opponent easy at the end, IT off the bench is where it's at.

[Parliament10]

Smart is shooting 31% for the season, which isn't enough to even earn playing time in the NBA, let alone start. Your argument would be more sound if you picked Turner and AB to start, because Smart in no way deserves to be a starter in this league with his horrendous shooting. Only Ricky Rubio shoots nearly as bad (34% and still better than Smart) and starts, but it's because he averages 8.8 assists per game with a PER of 17.97. Smart's PER is 10.39. There's no way he should be starting this season.

Why not?
He doesn't even have to shoot. He's a PG. He just needs to focus on running the Offense, and dishing it out.

On the other side of the ball -- We get IT on Defense too. That ain't nothing spectacular. IT, can score til the cows come home. That's not the only way to win a game.
The Cobra's (Marcus Smart) Defense is tops.

[return2glory]

How about Smart, KO, Sully, Lee, Amir, Turner all start playing better?

How about Ainge getting better talent.

The few games Bradley came off the bench, he played well.

There is going to be a lot of 2nd guessing from rotations to starting lineups to overall coaching, player development and the performance of Danny Ainge. You could even question the ownership at this point.

This is what happens when this team starts playing so poorly. Everyone has the answers but mostly they are different answers. It's cause for good debates.

I would rather take winning over debating. We need more talented players. Bottom line.

[djFan71]

Celtics with IT as a starter 18-17 .514
Celtics with IT as 6th man 15-9 .625

59 games

Again I think this says more about the bench than IT.

Agreed. It also says more about the injuries that made him a starter. Most of those 35 games he started means at least one of Smart, Bradley have been injured. Or like now, coming back from injury, shaking off rust, etc. So, basically, 1 of our 4 best players (3 guards and Crowder) has been out for the majority of IT's time as a starter up to this point. When he's been off the bench, all 4 of our best players have been playing.

[Parliament10]

How about Smart, KO, Sully, Lee, Amir, Turner all start playing better?

How about Ainge getting better talent.

The few games Bradley came off the bench, he played well.

There is going to be a lot of 2nd guessing from rotations to starting lineups to overall coaching, player development and the performance of Danny Ainge. You could even question the ownership at this point.

This is what happens when this team starts playing so poorly. Everyone has the answers but mostly they are different answers. It's cause for good debates.

I would rather take winning over debating. We need more talented players. Bottom line.

More talented players would be good.
We have 4 players already, who we don't even know that much about: The Rooks.

We need to Develop, and send a message to the current Actives.: They're jobs shouldn't be guaranteed either.
Why have 15 players?

[Green89]

Smart is shooting 31% for the season, which isn't enough to even earn playing time in the NBA, let alone start. Your argument would be more sound if you picked Turner and AB to start, because Smart in no way deserves to be a starter in this league with his horrendous shooting. Only Ricky Rubio shoots nearly as bad (34% and still better than Smart) and starts, but it's because he averages 8.8 assists per game with a PER of 17.97. Smart's PER is 10.39. There's no way he should be starting this season.

Why not?
He doesn't even have to shoot. He's a PG. He just needs to focus on running the Offense, and dishing it out.

On the other side of the ball -- We get IT on Defense too. That ain't nothing spectacular. IT, can score til the cows come home. That's not the only way to win a game.
The Cobra's (Marcus Smart) Defense is tops.

A starting point guard at least needs assists if he can't shoot. Smart's at 2.8 per game. I don't believe any regular starting PG in the league averages that low in assists.

[Homerclease]

Smart is shooting 31% for the season, which isn't enough to even earn playing time in the NBA, let alone start. Your argument would be more sound if you picked Turner and AB to start, because Smart in no way deserves to be a starter in this league with his horrendous shooting. Only Ricky Rubio shoots nearly as bad (34% and still better than Smart) and starts, but it's because he averages 8.8 assists per game with a PER of 17.97. Smart's PER is 10.39. There's no way he should be starting this season.

Why not?
He doesn't even have to shoot. He's a PG. He just needs to focus on running the Offense, and dishing it out.

On the other side of the ball -- We get IT on Defense too. That ain't nothing spectacular. IT, can score til the cows come home. That's not the only way to win a game.
The Cobra's (Marcus Smart) Defense is tops.

A starting point guard at least needs assists if he can't shoot. Smart's at 2.8 per game. I don't believe any regular starting PG in the league averages that low in assists.

Hard to get assists when you're busy watching Evan Turner go 1 on 5

[Parliament10]

Smart is shooting 31% for the season, which isn't enough to even earn playing time in the NBA, let alone start. Your argument would be more sound if you picked Turner and AB to start, because Smart in no way deserves to be a starter in this league with his horrendous shooting. Only Ricky Rubio shoots nearly as bad (34% and still better than Smart) and starts, but it's because he averages 8.8 assists per game with a PER of 17.97. Smart's PER is 10.39. There's no way he should be starting this season.

Why not?
He doesn't even have to shoot. He's a PG. He just needs to focus on running the Offense, and dishing it out.

On the other side of the ball -- We get IT on Defense too. That ain't nothing spectacular. IT, can score til the cows come home. That's not the only way to win a game.
The Cobra's (Marcus Smart) Defense is tops.

A starting point guard at least needs assists if he can't shoot. Smart's at 2.8 per game. I don't believe any regular starting PG in the league averages that low in assists.

Well, he needs to get crackin'.
Smart is our Starting PG of the future. Time to throw him into the deep end, so to speak.
IT is our 6th-man. That's the Plan. Let's stick with it.

[London2Boston]

I agree fully that IT should be coming off the bench. Simple fact is though we would need a star scorer to start instead. For the time being we need to play IT as much as possible in all honesty. In an ideal world we get that man in the summer and IT can be our spark plug off the bench that provides energy and scoring.

[Celts17Pride]

Max Lederman – ‏@Max_Lederman

Tommy and @KyleDraperTV talking about Isaiah Thomas right now.

Celtics now 2-9 when IT scores 24+ pts this season

#CelticsTalk
7:19 PM - 12 Jan 2016

[Green89]

Max Lederman – ‏@Max_Lederman

Tommy and @KyleDraperTV talking about Isaiah Thomas right now.

Celtics now 2-9 when IT scores 24+ pts this season

#CelticsTalk
7:19 PM - 12 Jan 2016

It goes hand in hand with the team sputtering on offense. When they aren't doing anything, IT has no choice but to step up. KO needs to stop pump faking, Turner needs to stop taking threes he can't make, and Bradley stop taking deep twos and blowing point blank shots. I bet if you checked games where that stuff happens, we have a pretty bad losing record, too. Sully has only started to hit his shots the last few games, but his shot hit rock bottom before that. Crowder is our only other consistent scorer.

[SichtingLives]

It was Bradley who played his best ball of the season in the 4 games he came off the bench. If you're moving anyone in this situation it should be him, as much as *in theory* I like IT as 6th man on this team.

It's a tough issue. First of all as head coach, good luck selling to IT that you need him back on the bench again because, get this, other guys are playing poorly. You can't continue to jerk him around just because others are failing..or maybe Brad can, but I don't see that convo happening.

But the tough part is that you can't justify giving the keys of the offense or a promotion to a guy who offensively barely deserves to play right now. I've said it a few times already but Marcus HAS to show improvement before you can justify doing anything with his role, he's just been too damn bad. He has to play better before you can further commit any time to him. As it stands he may eventually lose minutes to Hunter/Young if his shooting doesn't start to show up.

[SparringPartner]

I find this thread amusing. It seems most care about an individuals stats rather than the team winning.

-Celtics were 24-12 with I.Thomas off the bench to end the year last year.

-Celtics were 7-5 when Smart got hurt this year with a really difficult opening schedule.

-We added Amir in the offseason.

-Injuries, especially to Smart, obviously have played into our 19-19 record.

-Celtics are 2-9 when IT scores more than 24 pts

If you start Smart, Bradley, Crowder, Amir, KO and have IT come off the bench playing the SG role with E.Turner running PG Sully rebounding, Jerebko hustling, this team starts to win again.

Imagine being the opposing team and having to start the game with the defensive BUZZSAW of Smart, Bradley, Crowder. It sets the tone of the game immediately. Then you have IT & ET playing against the other teams 2nd unit.

Come on Brad. Get it together man!!!

[SparringPartner]

Who cares about scoring 30+ pts in the opening quarter when the other team has scored 25 pts without a lot of resistance. I'd rather see a BOS 23 Other Team 16 score were the opposing team's first unit is frustrated. Then send in IT guns blazing and start pulling away. That was the success of last year.