Celtics need to send IT back to the bench

[truth18]

Weren't two of those wins against Cleveland resting their guys, which would clearly juke SOS?
We're playing at the same level as far as NetRTG that we did last season and just happen to be seeing both sides of the record in close games coin. We added Amir for Bass, but the gains were canceled out by Smart being healthy for maybe 5 games.

No, the myth that Cleveland threw those games is just that, a myth. I watched those games and they were playing for the win.

Agree 100% about your main point, and the bold section, just saying.

It's not a myth, the first game Irving didn't play and Lebron only got 26 minutes. The second game Lebron, Irving and Love didn't play. They clearly weren't trying their hardest to win those.

True, I was talking about those games from an in-game perspective. No one was laying down during the games, but yeah, they were resting key players.

[Parliament10]

Weren't two of those wins against Cleveland resting their guys, which would clearly juke SOS?
We're playing at the same level as far as NetRTG that we did last season and just happen to be seeing both sides of the record in close games coin. We added Amir for Bass, but the gains were canceled out by Smart being healthy for maybe 5 games.

No, the myth that Cleveland threw those games is just that, a myth. I watched those games and they were playing for the win.

Agree 100% about your main point, and the bold section, just saying.

It's not a myth, the first game Irving didn't play and Lebron only got 26 minutes. The second game Lebron, Irving and Love didn't play. They clearly weren't trying their hardest to win those.

Back to the OP.:

* The last 36 games of last season the Celtics went 24-12.
* Smart Started.
* It came off the bench.

Keep it "Hungry".

IT's Defense isn't anything to gloat about, in the Starting Unit. Smart's (aka "The Cobra") IS.

Keep "The Defenders" in there (Smart / Bradley / Crowder / Amir), and go big or small, around them.
That lockdown Defense has been big for our Team.

[shawn unkempt]

No, the myth that Cleveland threw those games is just that, a myth. I watched those games and they were playing for the win.

Agree 100% about your main point, and the bold section, just saying.

It's not a myth, the first game Irving didn't play and Lebron only got 26 minutes. The second game Lebron, Irving and Love didn't play. They clearly weren't trying their hardest to win those.

Back to the OP.:

* The last 36 games of last season the Celtics went 24-12.
* Smart Started.
* It came off the bench.

Keep it "Hungry".

IT's Defense isn't anything to gloat about, in the Starting Unit. Smart's (aka "The Cobra") IS.

Keep "The Defenders" in there (Smart / Bradley / Crowder / Amir), and go big or small, around them.
That lockdown Defense has been big for our Team.

To put Smart into the starting lineup you need Turner in there, too. Smart can't handle the ball well enough to run an offense. Last year's lineup was Smart, AB and Turner. The difference is this year Crowder has cemented himself as the starting SF, taking him out of the starting lineup would be a travesty. AB is a better all around player than Smart this year, so you really can't sit him either. I think the starting lineup right now makes the most sense out of anything.

[Parliament10]

It's not a myth, the first game Irving didn't play and Lebron only got 26 minutes. The second game Lebron, Irving and Love didn't play. They clearly weren't trying their hardest to win those.

Back to the OP.:

* The last 36 games of last season the Celtics went 24-12.
* Smart Started.
* It came off the bench.

Keep it "Hungry".

IT's Defense isn't anything to gloat about, in the Starting Unit. Smart's (aka "The Cobra") IS.

Keep "The Defenders" in there (Smart / Bradley / Crowder / Amir), and go big or small, around them.
That lockdown Defense has been big for our Team.

To put Smart into the starting lineup you need Turner in there, too. Smart can't handle the ball well enough to run an offense. Last year's lineup was Smart, AB and Turner. The difference is this year Crowder has cemented himself as the starting SF, taking him out of the starting lineup would be a travesty. AB is a better all around player than Smart this year, so you really can't sit him either. I think the starting lineup right now makes the most sense out of anything.

It all depends upon who that 5th-man in there is, with "The Defenders".
I mean, if you go small, then put IT in there.
But, Do Not Start IT. -- He's been lucky in there, so far, against the trees. That may not keep, for the season.
We need IT moreso, in the Stretch. -- It's not about who feels "good" in the Starting Lineup.

[SparringPartner]

To put Smart into the starting lineup you need Turner in there, too. Smart can't handle the ball well enough to run an offense. Last year's lineup was Smart, AB and Turner. The difference is this year Crowder has cemented himself as the starting SF, taking him out of the starting lineup would be a travesty. AB is a better all around player than Smart this year, so you really can't sit him either. I think the starting lineup right now makes the most sense out of anything.

I agree that Turner did a lot of ball handling last year in that lineup. I think what you're missing is the reason Turner handled the ball so much isn't because Marcus can't, it's because Turner is pratically useless if he's not handling the ball. Spotting up for 3's is what Turner does if he's not handling the ball. Marcus is fine handling the point especially when you consider that everyone pretty much touches the ball on every possession in Steven's offense.

What's also curious about the Turner point is during the last 5 games or so he hasn't been handling the ball as much and becoming a spot up shooter. How's that turned out?? Which brings me back to my original point. Rotations should be;

Start -
Marcus(30)
Bradley(32)
Crowder(35)
Amir(25)
Kelly(32)
(This lineup has superior defense and decent offense with Kelly balancing out that defensive group)

6th - IT(30)
7th - ET(18)
8th - Sully(23)
9th - Jonas(15) (I'd love to see what Mickey could do with these minutes)

Close the rotation. No more 11-12 guy rotations. It's hurting the team. I guess Brad/Danny might be showcasing guys for trades, but it's time to lock it down.

[Green89]

Agreed. Turner just standing around the three point land burns me up. It's fools gold to another player when they see him open and immediately think "pass to him". That's exactly what the opponents want us to do. There's a reason they don't guard him out there.

[ConstableGeneva]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/VICESports/status/688088387878653952[/tweet]

[SparringPartner]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/VICESports/status/688088387878653952[/tweet]

No one is arguing this fact, but it won't matter when he gets worn down or injured because he's 5'9, constantly driving to the hoop, and playing 34+ minutes a night. He should be coming off the bench playing against other teams second units for most of the game then of course closing out games in the fourth quarter. We're talking 26-30 minutes here. That's what's shown to work for this team to WIN basketball games, not to pad IT's stats making him an all-star. Who f****** cares about all-stars. I want to WIN games.

[ConstableGeneva]

Yep, wrong thread to post the Vice Sports article. Should've been on the IT for All-Star thread. My bad.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Scott_Souza/status/688131401594441729[/tweet]

[Green89]

No one is arguing this fact, but it won't matter when he gets worn down or injured because he's 5'9, constantly driving to the hoop, and playing 34+ minutes a night. He should be coming off the bench playing against other teams second units for most of the game then of course closing out games in the fourth quarter. We're talking 26-30 minutes here. That's what's shown to work for this team to WIN basketball games, not to pad IT's stats making him an all-star. Who f****** cares about all-stars. I want to WIN games.

I don't think he is not as fit as someone 6'9" just because he's 5'9", or more injury prone, for that matter. He seems to be in good shape. A 6'3" slasher to the rim can hit the floor just as hard as IT, or harder because they weigh more. His height is kind of irrelevant in terms of he's going to be "worn down" more.

[Parliament10]

No one is arguing this fact, but it won't matter when he gets worn down or injured because he's 5'9, constantly driving to the hoop, and playing 34+ minutes a night. He should be coming off the bench playing against other teams second units for most of the game then of course closing out games in the fourth quarter. We're talking 26-30 minutes here. That's what's shown to work for this team to WIN basketball games, not to pad IT's stats making him an all-star. Who f****** cares about all-stars. I want to WIN games.

I don't think he is not as fit as someone 6'9" just because he's 5'9", or more injury prone, for that matter. He seems to be in good shape. A 6'3" slasher to the rim can hit the floor just as hard as IT, or harder because they weigh more. His height is kind of irrelevant in terms of he's going to be "worn down" more.

That's not so true. A shorter guy, will get worn down moreso. When a short guy loses his speed (from injury, age, or what-have-you), then it's harder for them to compete. Taller players, always have their height to fall back on.

At 5'9", 185lbs, Thomas is often going against guys 100lbs heavier than him. That's a big difference.
If this were Boxing, they wouldn't even let that fight occur. It would almost be illegal.

Thomas needs to come off the bench.

[BfB]

No one is arguing this fact, but it won't matter when he gets worn down or injured because he's 5'9, constantly driving to the hoop, and playing 34+ minutes a night. He should be coming off the bench playing against other teams second units for most of the game then of course closing out games in the fourth quarter. We're talking 26-30 minutes here. That's what's shown to work for this team to WIN basketball games, not to pad IT's stats making him an all-star. Who f****** cares about all-stars. I want to WIN games.

I don't think he is not as fit as someone 6'9" just because he's 5'9", or more injury prone, for that matter. He seems to be in good shape. A 6'3" slasher to the rim can hit the floor just as hard as IT, or harder because they weigh more. His height is kind of irrelevant in terms of he's going to be "worn down" more.

That's not so true. A shorter guy, will get worn down moreso. When a short guy loses his speed (from injury, age, or what-have-you), then it's harder for them to compete. Taller players, always have their height to fall back on.

At 5'9", 185lbs, Thomas is often going against guys 100lbs heavier than him. That's a big difference.
If this were Boxing, they wouldn't even let that fight occur. It would almost be illegal.

Thomas needs to come off the bench.

Absolutely false - he just needs help. Carrying the offense when the team is what will kill him, not starting.

[Infinite Llamas]

Well, Alln Iverson only had a couple inches on Isaiah but he averaged 40 minutes a game for his career and I wouldn't call Iverson particularly injury prone. Iverson was a major slasher too. Not really comparing Isaiah to AI in a general sense, but I don't think playing 32-34 minutes a game will hamper him too much. I do agree that he needs more help and he can't lead our team in scoring every night. That's why tonight was a good win because we got points spread all around. The more others score, the less pressure Isaiah will feel.

[tlee324]

Application trumps theory, in my opinion. If Isiah and the team were performing better when he was a reserve, then the answer is easy, here.

[Parliament10]

I don't think he is not as fit as someone 6'9" just because he's 5'9", or more injury prone, for that matter. He seems to be in good shape. A 6'3" slasher to the rim can hit the floor just as hard as IT, or harder because they weigh more. His height is kind of irrelevant in terms of he's going to be "worn down" more.

That's not so true. A shorter guy, will get worn down moreso. When a short guy loses his speed (from injury, age, or what-have-you), then it's harder for them to compete. Taller players, always have their height to fall back on.

At 5'9", 185lbs, Thomas is often going against guys 100lbs heavier than him. That's a big difference.
If this were Boxing, they wouldn't even let that fight occur. It would almost be illegal.

Thomas needs to come off the bench.

Absolutely false - he just needs help. Carrying the offense when the team is what will kill him, not starting.

What exactly are you saying is, "Absolutely false" ?

[jfs1000d]

Problem isn't IT. Problem is without IT we got off to terrible starts. Our defense was great, offense terrible.


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