Direction of This Team

[8305]

we stand or fall with PG. last night he hurt us in Houston by taking a three in the final minute too early in the shot clock. he needs to learn when we need a hero and when we do not.

Ellis is proving to be a more complete player than I expected. Ian and JHilll have contributed too.

I don't see a second unit trade as making a diference.

I agree, as good as he can be he's still learning how to best help the team. He and Monta Ellis need to cut their turnovers in half.

The combined production of Mahamni and J. Hill has been very solid. If the rest of this team was better I don't think the 5 position would hold us back from doing pretty great things.

[EuroPacer]

Anderson is a bad idea. I still feel we need to do something at the Point Guard position. George Hill isn't cutting it for me in the current system. One thing I increasingly get frustrated with is that he doesn't seem to 'captain' the five on the floor, instead deferring to Monta and PG for that. I want my Point to be vocal and put people in the right place.

Having said that, I see very few possibilities out there unless it includes nutcases like Lawson who I wouldn't touch with a bargepole.

[Gremz]

Very good questions.

I think this year is very much a "ride it out" year. I think we've seen bits of what we could do, but we really need to see it over a long haul to see what we should truly re-tool towards. Maybe it's a wing that needs to be moved. Maybe it's selling a guy for some small value (Jordan Hill-ish). Who knows. I can't see any massive moves, but I could see some re-tooling around the edges if some value swaps came around the deadline.

This seems about right. I wouldn't mind us looking into deals that could help us progress through the playoffs a little. A solid run there could potentially swing the opinions of possible free agents.

[EuroPacer]

Anderson is a bad idea. I still feel we need to do something at the Point Guard position. George Hill isn't cutting it for me in the current system. One thing I increasingly get frustrated with is that he doesn't seem to 'captain' the five on the floor, instead deferring to Monta and PG for that. I want my Point to be vocal and put people in the right place.

Having said that, I see very few possibilities out there unless it includes nutcases like Lawson who I wouldn't touch with a bargepole.

Watching the Wiz game now, first quarter/start to the game showed exactly why I have had it with GH.

[pacers33granger]

Anderson is a bad idea. I still feel we need to do something at the Point Guard position. George Hill isn't cutting it for me in the current system. One thing I increasingly get frustrated with is that he doesn't seem to 'captain' the five on the floor, instead deferring to Monta and PG for that. I want my Point to be vocal and put people in the right place.

Having said that, I see very few possibilities out there unless it includes nutcases like Lawson who I wouldn't touch with a bargepole.

Watching the Wiz game now, first quarter/start to the game showed exactly why I have had it with GH.

I get the feeling that at least part of that is on the coaching staff. Hill was the vocal leader and was very aggressive last year. But he's clearly behind PG and Ellis on the pecking order. Hell we even run the offense through Jordan Hill in the post when GH is on the floor and PG/Ellis are sitting.

[EuroPacer]

Anderson is a bad idea. I still feel we need to do something at the Point Guard position. George Hill isn't cutting it for me in the current system. One thing I increasingly get frustrated with is that he doesn't seem to 'captain' the five on the floor, instead deferring to Monta and PG for that. I want my Point to be vocal and put people in the right place.

Having said that, I see very few possibilities out there unless it includes nutcases like Lawson who I wouldn't touch with a bargepole.

Watching the Wiz game now, first quarter/start to the game showed exactly why I have had it with GH.

I get the feeling that at least part of that is on the coaching staff. Hill was the vocal leader and was very aggressive last year. But he's clearly behind PG and Ellis on the pecking order. Hell we even run the offense through Jordan Hill in the post when GH is on the floor and PG/Ellis are sitting.

That is pretty indicting of Vogel if true. I know it is a transition period and all that, but I don't see where we are transitioning to. As someone who has done plenty of change management in the past - if you don't have clear and achievable goals that everybody can relate to, don't start to change - which is indicting of Bird as he is the one who kicked it of... and if Bird wants this but Vogel struggles with it, what does that mean? Letting go of Vogel would be ridiculous.

[boomershadow]

It seems to me this year that the team makes a lot more sense if you look at Ellis as the 1 and Hill as the 2. Hill can play off the ball pretty well. Shooting 43% from three this year last time I looked. If you add someone like Lawson, you get a similar problem that Lawson has in Houston now and Monta Ellis had in Dallas at the end of last year. Too many people that need the ball in their hands to play their game.

[pacers33granger]

Watching the Wiz game now, first quarter/start to the game showed exactly why I have had it with GH.

I get the feeling that at least part of that is on the coaching staff. Hill was the vocal leader and was very aggressive last year. But he's clearly behind PG and Ellis on the pecking order. Hell we even run the offense through Jordan Hill in the post when GH is on the floor and PG/Ellis are sitting.

That is pretty indicting of Vogel if true. I know it is a transition period and all that, but I don't see where we are transitioning to. As someone who has done plenty of change management in the past - if you don't have clear and achievable goals that everybody can relate to, don't start to change - which is indicting of Bird as he is the one who kicked it of... and if Bird wants this but Vogel struggles with it, what does that mean? Letting go of Vogel would be ridiculous.

Eh I think the hot start is proving to be hurt us a bit overall. For fans, we saw what the team could be at its best, but that's not sustainable unfortunately. And for the coaches/players, the direction didn't get to be fully set early on.

To me this was always going to be a transition year and I'm fine with another lotto pick to be honest. We aren't taking out Cleveland and likely would get beat in a series by several other East teams unless we had hot shooting for the whole series. Next year is what we really need to be planning for imo. So as long as the young guys are getting some reps, I'm fine with this season wherever we end up.

[SmashMouthRod]

When we brought Stuckey back after having signed Ellis I was questioned having two guys who would be playing together that can't shoot from distance. Neither is a remarkable defender either. I still question the long term viability of this arrangement. Big picture to truly emulate what GSW does we need better size and shooting at the wing position. Having said all that I don't think Ellis is particularly tradeable.

I agree here. I would like a more traditional sized two guard that defends well and can score. Now whether that comes in the draft or free agency is the question. Considering that the teams Indy would have to beat to get to the finals in the East all feature traditional sized 6'5 to 6'7 guards (exs. Butler, Wade, Beal, Caldwell Pope, Middleton, DeRozan) at the two in addition to long athletic small forwards; it could be problematic defensively to keep the small backcourt rotation. The small ball in short spells is great but Im not completely on board with making it the bread and butter going forward because of a lack of the right personnel. GSW has Draymond. Indy doesnt. Its that simple. Vogel is a power post bully defensive coach. The roster is still more built for that style; than run and gun.

[Miller4ever]

^^I agree about the roster. Vogel has introduced as much space and pace to this team as the personnel allows. I think the team just needs to continue exploring and diversifying its offense. I don't think we're outright trying to emulate GSW, just incorporate certain ingredients.

We have an opportunity this offseason to improve a lot as a team, from getting the right draft pick, to the right trades and signings, to just the youth getting better.

Myles Turner is so good.

[MNPacersfan]

It seems like the goal this year was...
1. Bring in a couple of vets to fill out the starting lineup (Ellis and Hill - although Hill ended up 6th/7th man instead).
2. Stockpile young talent that looks pretty tradeable and is quite interchangeable.
3. Play 40 games or so:
IF... the team does well, trade some guys from the deep end of the rotation or the bench for another starter quality/6th man quality player
OR, if the team is lagging behind in the standings throw those kids on the floor and see what happens when they get minutes.

Seems that the plan may be to acquire the missing piece(s) this next off-season to try to re-open Paul's window. Possibly by taking salaries+assets from teams looking to sign huge deals with FA's into the new, higher cap via trades.