Archie Goodwin

[Frank Lee]

No shooty, no playee? That explains why our starting lineup features not 1, but 3 guys who cannot shoot whatsoever (Price, Tucker, Chandler), and why we keep playing the glorious chucker Markieff over Tele. Yup. Solid rule. I agree he needs to improve his shooting a lot, but let's not pretend like that's a prerequisite to play on this current Suns team.

Whatever, you know exactly what I am implying. So lets not pretend playing time will make a shooter out of Goodwin. Lets not pretend Price is a starter in this league, nor Tucker.....and as it is appearing, Chandler.

Um... as far as playing Keif... couldn't it be for trade reasons? Not like it matters if he is a chucker or not...

and as far as the 'glorious chucker'??? I believe that award goes to the guy who had taken the most shots and missed the most shots.

Any stat reveal who that might be? ... Let me give you a hint... He has MISSED more shots than anyone not named Bledsoe has attempted So be careful... I am sure if you played with the numbers, you could find a stat that would justify starting Archie for Mr Glorious

[AtheJ415]

No shooty, no playee? That explains why our starting lineup features not 1, but 3 guys who cannot shoot whatsoever (Price, Tucker, Chandler), and why we keep playing the glorious chucker Markieff over Tele. Yup. Solid rule. I agree he needs to improve his shooting a lot, but let's not pretend like that's a prerequisite to play on this current Suns team.

Whatever, you know exactly what I am implying. So lets not pretend playing time will make a shooter out of Goodwin. Lets not pretend Price is a starter in this league, nor Tucker.....and as it is appearing, Chandler.

Um... as far as playing Keif... couldn't it be for trade reasons? Not like it matters if he is a chucker or not...

and as far as the 'glorious chucker'??? I believe that award goes to the guy who had taken the most shots and missed the most shots.

Any stat reveal who that might be? ... Let me give you a hint... He has MISSED more shots than anyone not named Bledsoe has attempted So be careful... I am sure if you played with the numbers, you could find a stat that would justify starting Archie for Mr Glorious

Right, so the rest of our team is so bad, that you think a guy can't get PT until he learns to shoot, even though all of those guys can't?

I'm not sure if Goodwin will get PT once Price comes back. It will depend on a lot of things, and Hornacek has been absolutely nonsensical with most of the rotations all year. But, whatever the overall reason is, it won't be lack of shooting. At least it shouldn't be, but again, Hornacek does stuff like sub in Tucker and sit Warren in offensive scenarios, so who the hell knows.

Markieff takes the most shots per minute and touch on this team and it's not close. He just misses so many that he plays less than your least favorite player. The Glorious Chucker award is easily Kieff's, and will continue to be his so long as he puts up nearly a shot a minute.

[bwgood77]

Face it 1Ups... no shooty, no playee

I see pressed duck in his future.


makes no difference what team he is on... if he can't make an 18ftr nor a free throw he wont play for anyone. Pity is he hasn't improved in two yrs. Only he is to blame as all the playing time in the world wont alter the stones he throws up.

He has improved.. And still improving. I dont set all star standards for his development rate so im still high on him.

All his haters use the Kobe Bryant bar to compare him it seems.

Many of the people who simply don't like guy X or Y would've thrown out Curry, Hayward, Nash, Jimmy Butler, and a bunch of others who weren't all-stars at 24. Hell, Butler was a role playing defender at 24 with an almost non-existent offensive game, yet our own 19-22 year olds and our 24 year old combo guard "are who they are" while having "no superstar potential" labels by much of the fan base. It's pretty ridiculous.

I get not liking a player or 2, or not believing someone will become great (so few do that if you doubt them you'll probably be right), but many have a habit of throwing out guys who are so far from finished products that it's somewhat ridiculous to read at times. Every superstar aside from those drafted in the top 3, were never expected to be who they became--otherwise they go higher in the draft. Nobody expected Draymond Green, Butler, Curry, Leonard, Ibaka, Marc Gasol, Lowry, Nash, etc. to be as good as they became/are.

It's unbelievable some of the players you guys are comparing Archie to. I simply can't wrap my head around how good you guys expect him to be. But, I certainly hope he turns into a Green, Butler, Curry, Leonard, Ibaka, Gasol, Lowry or Nash type of player.

I just really wish we would have taken Allen Crabbe or Isaiah Canaan instead of Archie. The infatuation with Kentucky guards went overboard on that one.

Better comparisons for Archie are like Marquis Teague, Darius Morris, Shelvin Mack, Malcolm Lee or Nolan Smith.

[bwgood77]

Face it 1Ups... no shooty, no playee

I see pressed duck in his future.


makes no difference what team he is on... if he can't make an 18ftr nor a free throw he wont play for anyone. Pity is he hasn't improved in two yrs. Only he is to blame as all the playing time in the world wont alter the stones he throws up.

No shooty, no playee? That explains why our starting lineup features not 1, but 3 guys who cannot shoot whatsoever (Price, Tucker, Chandler), and why we keep playing the glorious chucker Markieff over Tele. Yup. Solid rule. I agree he needs to improve his shooting a lot, but let's not pretend like that's a prerequisite to play on this current Suns team.

Tucker shoots a hell of a lot better than Archie, and does everything else better except finish at the rim. He also provides maximum effort and energy. Archie shoots 15% from 3 while PJ shoots 36%, but PJ rebounds, defends...well the list goes on. Markieff has gotten a ton of DNP-CD if you haven't noticed. And Chandler is playing...well, it's pointless to argue these irrational thoughts, but Chandler is playing for much different reasons than Archie....which I figured you would know, but I guess not worth arguing.

I mean Archie shot 4-10 FROM THE LINE the other night. I'd rather see more of Brown, who had 5 assists, a three, and hit his free throws. He needs to cut down on the turnovers, but for a guy who just started playing with the team, that is impressive considering Archie has been practicing with much of the team for a long time.

[AtheJ415]

Face it 1Ups... no shooty, no playee

I see pressed duck in his future.


makes no difference what team he is on... if he can't make an 18ftr nor a free throw he wont play for anyone. Pity is he hasn't improved in two yrs. Only he is to blame as all the playing time in the world wont alter the stones he throws up.

No shooty, no playee? That explains why our starting lineup features not 1, but 3 guys who cannot shoot whatsoever (Price, Tucker, Chandler), and why we keep playing the glorious chucker Markieff over Tele. Yup. Solid rule. I agree he needs to improve his shooting a lot, but let's not pretend like that's a prerequisite to play on this current Suns team.

Tucker shoots a hell of a lot better than Archie, and does everything else better except finish at the rim. He also provides maximum effort and energy. Archie shoots 15% from 3 while PJ shoots 36%, but PJ rebounds, defends...well the list goes on. Markieff has gotten a ton of DNP-CD if you haven't noticed. And Chandler is playing...well, it's pointless to argue these irrational thoughts, but Chandler is playing for much different reasons than Archie....which I figured you would know, but I guess not worth arguing.

I mean Archie shot 4-10 FROM THE LINE the other night. I'd rather see more of Brown, who had 5 assists, a three, and hit his free throws. He needs to cut down on the turnovers, but for a guy who just started playing with the team, that is impressive considering Archie has been practicing with much of the team for a long time.

What he mentioned was specific to shooting, not all-around play. Booker only plays due to injury. He didn't early in the year despite being one of the best shooters on the team. Warren, a drastically better shooter than Tucker, still sits. Chandler starts over Len basically all year. To draw from those facts that you must shoot well to play on this team is nonsense. It's clearly not even a main factor on this team.

[AtheJ415]

He has improved.. And still improving. I dont set all star standards for his development rate so im still high on him.

All his haters use the Kobe Bryant bar to compare him it seems.

Many of the people who simply don't like guy X or Y would've thrown out Curry, Hayward, Nash, Jimmy Butler, and a bunch of others who weren't all-stars at 24. Hell, Butler was a role playing defender at 24 with an almost non-existent offensive game, yet our own 19-22 year olds and our 24 year old combo guard "are who they are" while having "no superstar potential" labels by much of the fan base. It's pretty ridiculous.

I get not liking a player or 2, or not believing someone will become great (so few do that if you doubt them you'll probably be right), but many have a habit of throwing out guys who are so far from finished products that it's somewhat ridiculous to read at times. Every superstar aside from those drafted in the top 3, were never expected to be who they became--otherwise they go higher in the draft. Nobody expected Draymond Green, Butler, Curry, Leonard, Ibaka, Marc Gasol, Lowry, Nash, etc. to be as good as they became/are.

It's unbelievable some of the players you guys are comparing Archie to. I simply can't wrap my head around how good you guys expect him to be. But, I certainly hope he turns into a Green, Butler, Curry, Leonard, Ibaka, Gasol, Lowry or Nash type of player.

I just really wish we would have taken Allen Crabbe or Isaiah Canaan instead of Archie. The infatuation with Kentucky guards went overboard on that one.

Better comparisons for Archie are like Marquis Teague, Darius Morris, Shelvin Mack, Malcolm Lee or Nolan Smith.

I didn't compare Archie to anyone here. All I did was use examples of players who improved a ton later in their careers. The point I was making was simply that it's too soon to give up on a guy or place him in a particular category at age 21. Anyone claiming he's doomed to fail is jumping the gun. That's the only point. I could've done the same thing with middling players too, but since most here follow the stars, it's easier to make those. There is no 1 player who is similar to the consortium of guys I named, as most play different positions, different styles, with different skillsets and had different comings of age. The only similarity is they improved later on in their careers, at a time the fan bases would've given up on them at 21.

[dremill24]

Maybe he's just not that good?

Well, we don`t know what with have in him yet cause our coach have played him in like 5 games this season.

What I do know is I would watch Len, Warren, Booker and Goodwin play, win or lose nevermind right now... It should be all about development, seeing who is worth keeping and who is not and growing together as a future team and a core.

Perhaps the coaches DO know what they have (presently), and thats why he doesn't play? There seems to still be the delusion that we have a chance at the playoffs.

Ive really never seen anything from Goodwin to indicate that he's NOT the worst wing player the Suns have. Now..the conversation about whether they should be playing him consistently now is something we all agree on. But since he's been here, the Suns have been making poor (besides 2yrs ago) attempts at winning. And this year, whether it's desperation for the playoffs or just maintaining trade value of their vets, they're still playing their (currently) best players. And as long as thats the mindset, there really no minutes for Archie outside of injury..until they acknowledge the season is lost and go all out tank mode

[NaturalBuns]

Archie is still so young by age 25 he will at minimum be a productive bench guy

[JohnWall2]

Archie is the least of our problems, he's 21 and despite what some say he can still definitely get his game together and become more complete. Dead weight like Weems and Price needs to be addressed before we even begin deciding what Goodwins future with the team will be unless he's part of a deal that lands us a high level player.

[garrick]

Weems and Price are fine for what they are, every team needs veteran players to fill out the roster and if Goodwin was any better than the two he would be getting major minutes but he clearly hasn't put it all together yet.

You simply cannot have a shooting guard shoot that poorly and get major minutes and the only exception would be point guards like Rondo or KJ who are/were bad 3pt shooters but made up for it by having excellent court vision and being able to score in other ways.

[JMac1]

Not a fan of Archie, but there is room for him on this team as currently built and he should be playing ahead of anyone not named Booker, Knight or Warren.

[bwgood77]

Not a fan of Archie, but there is room for him on this team as currently built and he should be playing ahead of anyone not named Booker, Knight or Warren.

I'll take Lorenzo Brown over him right now. Better passer and shooter.

[bwgood77]

Archie is still so young by age 25 he will at minimum be a productive bench guy

So you're saying you'd give him a second contract? How much?

[Damkac]

I don't care how bad or good he is. He should play 25 minutes a game at least. Same with Booker, Warren and Len. I prefer losing 35 while playing young player than losing only 30 while playing Price.

[JohnWall2]

I don't care how bad or good he is. He should play 25 minutes a game at least. Same with Booker, Warren and Len. I prefer losing 35 while playing young player than losing only 30 while playing Price.

And Tucker.....like WTF seriously?! There is no point to a lot of these rotations.

[TASTIC]

Have to think they're playing Tucker etc to get trade value up, same with Weems.

I like Brown more than Archie right now to be honest.

Goodwin is a one-trick pony and the trick he has -- getting to the line -- he has yet to actually make it a worth-while trick.

There's NO excuse for a guy who gets to the line as frequently as him to NOT be a 78-85% FT guy, he doesn't need actual NBA time to get better at free throws, so that's completely on him.

[bwgood77]

Have to think they're playing Tucker etc to get trade value up, same with Weems.

I like Brown more than Archie right now to be honest.

Goodwin is a one-trick pony and the trick he has -- getting to the line -- he has yet to actually make it a worth-while trick.

There's NO excuse for a guy who gets to the line as frequently as him to NOT be a 78-85% FT guy, he doesn't need actual NBA time to get better at free throws, so that's completely on him.

Exactly. You play this guy 30 minutes people are going to learn to just foul him when he takes it to the rim since he only shoots 4 for 10 from the line. Playing more doesn't make you a better FT shooter. That takes practice.

[Damkac]

Have to think they're playing Tucker etc to get trade value up, same with Weems.

I would like to think this is the cause but Tucker was getting minutes ahead of younger players since he joined the team.
Really, no matter who will we play we will still suck. Why don't give minutes to young guy and see if he could be good instead of playing freaking PJ Tucker??

[thamadkant]

Have to think they're playing Tucker etc to get trade value up, same with Weems.

I like Brown more than Archie right now to be honest.

Goodwin is a one-trick pony and the trick he has -- getting to the line -- he has yet to actually make it a worth-while trick.

There's NO excuse for a guy who gets to the line as frequently as him to NOT be a 78-85% FT guy, he doesn't need actual NBA time to get better at free throws, so that's completely on him.

Exactly. You play this guy 30 minutes people are going to learn to just foul him when he takes it to the rim since he only shoots 4 for 10 from the line. Playing more doesn't make you a better FT shooter. That takes practice.

He has shot 67%, 73% and this season 59%... career of 67%. 4 out of 10 is ridiculous, again nit picking the worst and making it seem standard. He has games he shot 100%. (3/3, 5/5 etc.)

[bwgood77]

Have to think they're playing Tucker etc to get trade value up, same with Weems.

I like Brown more than Archie right now to be honest.

Goodwin is a one-trick pony and the trick he has -- getting to the line -- he has yet to actually make it a worth-while trick.

There's NO excuse for a guy who gets to the line as frequently as him to NOT be a 78-85% FT guy, he doesn't need actual NBA time to get better at free throws, so that's completely on him.

Exactly. You play this guy 30 minutes people are going to learn to just foul him when he takes it to the rim since he only shoots 4 for 10 from the line. Playing more doesn't make you a better FT shooter. That takes practice.

He has shot 67%, 73% and this season 59%... career of 67%. 4 out of 10 is ridiculous, again nit picking the worst and making it seem standard. He has games he shot 100%. (3/3, 5/5 etc.)

I was just looking at the game he got a lot of minutes, so I hadn't looked at it. I assumed he normally shot quite a bit better, but I guess 59% isn't that much better. I wonder why he is regressing so much from the line this year.

He probably had more confidence in some of his garbage minute games against other end of bench guys where he got a little hot, and then in the flow, and then hit free throws. But when he goes against starters, the confidence erodes fairly quickly.