Coaching Options

[MoMM]

I'm a Packers fan for a long time, since Favre vs Elway days, but since football isn't very popular in Brazil, I don't know too much about technical stuff, I'm just a guy who roots, likes to watch GB games, but I don't study about the game itself. It's a little bit different than basketball to me.

I read here a lot of people complaining about MM and his inability to win big games in the playoffs, so I'd like to start a conversation about, my point here is not talk **** about him. I just want to know if there are viable and better options than him available in the market.

Maybe he isn't great, but it's better to keep him than change him for a worse HC.

What do you think about a conversation about it? Let's focus only on this point and do not talk about players needed (WR, OL, etc).

What available coaches could be brought that would help us to win another Super Bowl?

[WiscoKing13]

No better HC available right now. Better question how to reorganize the offense. Forgot which beat writer wrote the article about it, but I guess we're the only team in the league with a QB/WR coach. Would love for us bring Ray Sherman back.

Capers needs to go and Perry needs to be looked at for a promotion. What a great job he did this year with that secondary. We got to go through a quarter of our schedule with two rookie DB's and we barley noticed.

While ST had some issues, I don't think it's a zook issue. Really like him and like watching McGinn eat crow. But please get rid of ginger.

[breakchains]

I would replace McCarthy with McDaniels in a heart beat.

[breakchains]

Or talked to New Orleans about Payton, who wanted out. Trade coaches.

Also think we missed out on Hue Jackson, who looks like Bruce Arians part 2 to me.

[th87]

I would replace McCarthy with McDaniels in a heart beat.

Yes, but he sounds like a total scumbag:

Shortly after Josh McDaniels moved into his office at Dove Valley, he called in Cutler and his agent, Bus Cook, for a closed-door meeting. The story goes that McDaniels began with a 20-minute dissertation of his resume, how he'd worked his way up the ranks in New England to become Bill Belichick's right-hand man with the offense and how the team would have been nowhere the year before without his tutelage of backup Matt Cassel. He continued on with justification of his hiring by Bowlen.

After the perplexing recitation of accomplishments, McDaniels suddenly shifted gears.

He began to bash and berate Cutler and his game to the tune of a verbal flogging neither had ever witnessed. The expletive-laden diatribe went on for a few minutes, after which Cook stood up and told Cutler they were leaving. As they walked down the long hallway past Bowlen's office, Cutler turned to Bus and said, "Get me out of here. I don't care how you do it."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2580349-why-i-drafted-jay-cutler-and-what-happened-from-there

A fascinating article by the former Broncos GM, by the way.

[breakchains]

I would replace McCarthy with McDaniels in a heart beat.

Yes, but he sounds like a total scumbag:

Shortly after Josh McDaniels moved into his office at Dove Valley, he called in Cutler and his agent, Bus Cook, for a closed-door meeting. The story goes that McDaniels began with a 20-minute dissertation of his resume, how he'd worked his way up the ranks in New England to become Bill Belichick's right-hand man with the offense and how the team would have been nowhere the year before without his tutelage of backup Matt Cassel. He continued on with justification of his hiring by Bowlen.

After the perplexing recitation of accomplishments, McDaniels suddenly shifted gears.

He began to bash and berate Cutler and his game to the tune of a verbal flogging neither had ever witnessed. The expletive-laden diatribe went on for a few minutes, after which Cook stood up and told Cutler they were leaving. As they walked down the long hallway past Bowlen's office, Cutler turned to Bus and said, "Get me out of here. I don't care how you do it."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2580349-why-i-drafted-jay-cutler-and-what-happened-from-there

A fascinating article by the former Broncos GM, by the way.

His Denver tenure was surely an epic fail but I've always felt that he had the chops but was just really young and naive when he took that job. Going back to Belichick, another guy who "failed" as a young HC on his first go round, I am guessing has done him wonders and I'll bet he's learned from his mistakes.

You'd have to do your due diligence but I have a feeling he'd be a pretty damn good coach here. Clearly, he's smart. I think he's aggressive. And he's learned from the best of the best. Give him the GOAT QB and I think we'd see a better team than McCarthy's teams.

I just need TT to find me McCarthy's replacement. McDaniels or someone else. Hue would have been very good here IMO, but that ship has sailed.

An outside the box move that I would support is throwing a ton of money at Saban. This is probably the one scenario that he might consider leaving Bama for (Rodgers). He'd probably want personnel power, which would probably be a nonstarter though.

[breakchains]

I don't think it's a coincidence that we keep losing these types of games in the playoffs save for the 2010 run, whereas teams coached by guys like Belichick, Carroll, Harbaugh, and now probably Arians tend to be on the other side of those types of games.

Speaking of Harbaugh, he's a jackass but I'd even look at him too. Too abrasive for this organization though. Wouldn't mesh with TT et al. He would win multiple super bowls with our team though.

[crkone]

We need a coach who can guarantee his top 4 WR are healthy by the playoffs.

[El Duderino]

It's a waste of time even thinking about this.

Ted rums this organization completely and he's as play it safe as it gets for a GM. So long as McCarthy keeps making the playoffs and keeps buying 100 percent into how Ted builds teams, i don't see a change coming at coach anytime soon.

Since there is always some degree of risk that a new coach backfires and Ted by nature is risk adverse, McCarthy will very likely keep his job for multiple more season, regardless if another ring isn't won.

[wiscrunner24]

I never post but...

MM is far from perfect but this is like the Lloyd Carr problem at Michigan. Everyone wanted him gone after winning big ten title after big ten title only to finally get him out to see Rich Rodriguez and Brady Hoke waste six years. I can't stand Michigan, but I'm not ready to see the Ray Rhodes/Mike Sherman enter stage right. The guy TT picks most likely you never heard of and you'll be pissed we passed on person X...like every second round pick he has ever made.

[breakchains]

I never post but...

MM is far from perfect but this is like the Lloyd Carr problem at Michigan. Everyone wanted him gone after winning big ten title after big ten title only to finally get him out to see Rich Rodriguez and Brady Hoke waste six years. I can't stand Michigan, but I'm not ready to see the Ray Rhodes/Mike Sherman enter stage right. The guy TT picks most likely you never heard of and you'll be pissed we passed on person X...like every second round pick he has ever made.

It's actually not like that at all. Because MM has never not had Brett Favre or Aaron Rodgers at QB, except for a stretch when Rodgers was hurt and we struggled to win any games. No one has seen MM coach without a HOF QB, and IMO the GOAT QB (Rodgers).

In fact, I might use a different analogy to say it's the opposite of what you describe. I'd compare it to the Warriors with Mark Jackson as HC. A team with some insanely talented players which could coast to the playoffs but then lose in the 2nd round. Replaced with a truly good HC and the team became historic. Not a perfect analogy because you're mixing sports but that's how I see it with McCarthy.

[Iheartfootball]

It's a waste of time even thinking about this.

Ted rums this organization completely and he's as play it safe as it gets for a GM. So long as McCarthy keeps making the playoffs and keeps buying 100 percent into how Ted builds teams, i don't see a change coming at coach anytime soon.

Since there is always some degree of risk that a new coach backfires and Ted by nature is risk adverse, McCarthy will very likely keep his job for multiple more season, regardless if another ring isn't won.

I agree. The only way MM is gone is if TT is gone first. I remember when McCarthy was hired Cliff Cristl said something to the effect that he and Thompson are connected at the hip. Still rings true today.

[Mags FTW]

We need a coach who can guarantee his top 4 WR are healthy by the playoffs.

I would like a coach whose training staff doesn't lose a receiver for the rest of the season after a sprained ankle in Week 6.

[El Duderino]

I don't think it's a coincidence that we keep losing these types of games in the playoffs save for the 2010 run, whereas teams coached by guys like Belichick, Carroll, Harbaugh, and now probably Arians tend to be on the other side of those types of games.

Speaking of Harbaugh, he's a jackass but I'd even look at him too. Too abrasive for this organization though. Wouldn't mesh with TT et al. He would win multiple super bowls with our team though.

I'm in the same camp that the Packers could use some fresh ideas away from McCarthy, but i also think that there really isn't a ton that separates most coaches in this league outside of Belichick.

Arians seems like a good coach and i'd like to have him i over McCarthy, but yesterday he had both a more talented and much healthier team playing at home, yet easily could have lost if Sam Shields just picks that ball off in the 4th quarter that hit him right in the hands or the coin flip landed on tails instead of heads. Not only that, his decision to throw the ball on their last drive is the only reason Rodgers had time for the Hail Mary and he also had to OK blitzing an insane 7 guys on that last play which only left four DB's in the end zone. I get sending 4 or 5, but 7 was an unsound level of risk. Arians got bailed out big time yesterday.

Carroll also seems to be a really good coach, but he reached two Super Bowls with a very talented roster, largely because Wilson was making pennies vs 20 million per. In the Super Bowl last year, he had to OK that play call at the 6 inch line to pass vs handing it to Lynch. Had McCarthy done that, there would have been outrage on a level never seen on these forums before. Then today, Seattle is down 31-0 before halftime. Just imagine that was Green Bay instead, a 20 page thread about how McCarthy didn't have the team ready to play.

Hell, if Bostic doesn't screw up the onside kick last year and/or Burnett doesn't brainfart and fall down after the INT, Seattle fans would have thrown a fit that "Carroll didn't have his team ready to play" and thus was needing another miracle comeback to advance.

Harbaugh is in college and likely will remain there for awhile. Great coach, but good luck finding another Harbaugh caliber coach and no way would a super head strong guy like that last long with Ted. TT is used to complete power and McCarthy is totally on board with Ted's very rigid ideas for roster building. That would never fly with a super head strong type like Harbaugh. If/when Ted ever replaces McCarthy, that guy will also have to fully accept that what Ted wants team building and roster wise is what will happen. End of story.

I like Tomlin from a personality front, not sure he is some clearly special coach though.

So while i'm for moving on from McCarthy, i also believe the odds of finding some savior who ends up bringing multiple trips to the Super Bowl are slim. It's just very hard to get there and outside of Belichick who is truly a difference maker head coach, pinpointing numerous other difference maker coaches is tough to do.

Take Rivera in Carolina for example. A good number of their fans wanted to move on from him after last season and now he'll be Coach of the Year and maybe win a ring. Is he a top head coach, or mainly did Cam finally become a true superstar this year?

[raysbookclub]

McCarthy is a fine head coach. Not sure what people expect: 5 SB's in 10 years? Even 3? Who's done that, besides the Patriots? Give the Packers the playoff roads that NE has had the last 10 years, some lucky breaks (e.g., Tuck Rule), and their "gamesmanship"/cheating, and maybe the Packers win one or two more the last decade. But the team doesn't have a knucklehead culture, they seem to have a good locker room every year, and they have been a legit SB contender for the last 6 years. It doesn't get much better than that.

Pete Carroll has won one SB and lost one SB in 5 years, and I would not be surprised if he doesn't go to another one. They were down 31-0 before halftime in a playoff game--that doesn't happen. They were lucky to make the SB last year, and there's a reason so many people think they've been the luckiest--not the best--team in the league during Carroll's tenure. Lynch is on a descent, Wilson signed the big contract, and they're still a good team, don't get me wrong, but their window might be closed.

Jim Harbaugh went to one SB and needed a blackout to get his team just to make it a close game before losing. His legacy in SF is basically a stretch when they were maybe the top team in the NFC but never won the SB, plus a bunch of knuckleheads and knucklehead shenanigans (including Harbaugh's) that embarrassed the fanbase and made them the NFL's most annoying team for a solid few years. SF fans didn't really like the team even though they were winning.

Bellicheck and Brady are the gold standard, bottom line. But a ton of NFL people and fans would like to put a big asterisk next to both of their names in the record books. Does anyone outside of NE like the Patriots?

[El Duderino]

We need a coach who can guarantee his top 4 WR are healthy by the playoffs.

I would like a coach whose training staff doesn't lose a receiver for the rest of the season after a sprained ankle in Week 6.

Come on, that situation with Ty had absolutely nothing to do with McCarthy. Ted controls the roster and if he had a problem with the training staff, they'd be replaced. No GM in football has more authority/power than Thompson.

If any blame for the receiver situation should land on McCarthy, it's that both Abbrederis and Janis couldn't sniff the field as the passing game struggled for so long, even though some games Jones couldn't come close to getting open, Adams was awful, and usually on obvious passing downs, lumbering R. Rodgers would be in the slot over a 4th receiver.

[th87]

I would replace McCarthy with McDaniels in a heart beat.

Yes, but he sounds like a total scumbag:

Shortly after Josh McDaniels moved into his office at Dove Valley, he called in Cutler and his agent, Bus Cook, for a closed-door meeting. The story goes that McDaniels began with a 20-minute dissertation of his resume, how he'd worked his way up the ranks in New England to become Bill Belichick's right-hand man with the offense and how the team would have been nowhere the year before without his tutelage of backup Matt Cassel. He continued on with justification of his hiring by Bowlen.

After the perplexing recitation of accomplishments, McDaniels suddenly shifted gears.

He began to bash and berate Cutler and his game to the tune of a verbal flogging neither had ever witnessed. The expletive-laden diatribe went on for a few minutes, after which Cook stood up and told Cutler they were leaving. As they walked down the long hallway past Bowlen's office, Cutler turned to Bus and said, "Get me out of here. I don't care how you do it."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2580349-why-i-drafted-jay-cutler-and-what-happened-from-there

A fascinating article by the former Broncos GM, by the way.

His Denver tenure was surely an epic fail but I've always felt that he had the chops but was just really young and naive when he took that job. Going back to Belichick, another guy who "failed" as a young HC on his first go round, I am guessing has done him wonders and I'll bet he's learned from his mistakes.

You'd have to do your due diligence but I have a feeling he'd be a pretty damn good coach here. Clearly, he's smart. I think he's aggressive. And he's learned from the best of the best. Give him the GOAT QB and I think we'd see a better team than McCarthy's teams.

I just need TT to find me McCarthy's replacement. McDaniels or someone else. Hue would have been very good here IMO, but that ship has sailed.

An outside the box move that I would support is throwing a ton of money at Saban. This is probably the one scenario that he might consider leaving Bama for (Rodgers). He'd probably want personnel power, which would probably be a nonstarter though.

I'm also wary of the fact that NE coaches don't have success elsewhere.

I think I'd give MM another year. We are only a year removed from dropping 50s on opponents. However, it was extremely concerning this year that he refused to get more creative with his route concepts, despite it being absolutely clear that the offense wasn't even working against bad teams. I've never been less comfortable with MM's direction as I am now.

I am ready, however, to move on from TT (sorry OP for bringing this up). He's a good enough personnel guy to get us to "almost", but will inexplicably leave a hole that will be our undoing. Richard Rodgers should not be our go-to TE for two years now. Quarless is JAG. Having anything there that might be a threat (i.e. Vernon Davis) would've done wonders for the offense, and we might even get HFA. Not relying on low picks and practice squad guys at ILB might have prevented that key David Johnson first down before the ricochet TD.

Every year, it's something. Last year, it was our ILBs again. The year before, it was S. OLB prior to that. RB before that. It's not like these holes are particularly hard to replace, or that I'm asking for an All-Pro. No, all we'd need is some stop-gap to elevate that position from "total garbage" to average-below average.

It doesn't look like TT will ever change. Our window is at the beginning of its closing stages.

[HKPackFan]

Criticisms are valid for both MM and TT.


TT is an above average GM in terms of his draft skills overall. He's pretty good at finding talent. Unfortunately he's missed on some of his high round picks. As a GM outside of the draft he's hurt us with his refusal to use FA minus the couple of times he's nailed it. Agreed as mentioned he'll leave a hole completely open and everyone under the sun can tell we suck at a position and he will not address it once the draft is over. Others mentioned we suffered through horrible TE play, pathetic worst in a decade kind of horrible. And same with ILB before, and S before that. It's maddening that a guy with such an eye for talent can load up on certain positions and find gems, and yet leave one position so awful that it disrupts the entire team.

That being said TT is not going anywhere, he's still a top 10 GM in the league, and TT will not let go of MM. As mentioned by others they are tied at the hip.

I don't mind if they fire some coaches in the offensive staff in bring in new blood, but I don't think TT is going anywhere and I don't think MM is going anywhere. Im also hesitant to think about moving on from TT, I remember the awful days of Sherman the GM. Although if TT retires I wouldn't mind Schneider back or the prodigal son Elliot Wolf. That's one way that could quicken MM's exit.

Tom Coughlin's teams stunk for a while before his Superbowl granting avoid the hotseat card was revoked. MM's teams are still going to the playoffs every year. I don't see TT considering MM to be on the hotseat at all, and his risk averse nature won't have him considering a chance.

MM's team would have to fail horribly for at least 1 year like 6-10 or 4-12 before TT would consider a change. Even then maybe 2 years of failure before TT would bring out the axe.


TT would rather go to the prom with the 7 and hope to settle down and have kids, instead of dumping her and taking a risky bet on asking out the 10 supermodel.

[rilamann]

TT would rather go to the prom with the 7 and hope to settle down and have kids, instead of dumping her and taking a risky bet on asking out the 10 supermodel.

And Mike McCarthy is the guy on a game show who would rather just play it safe and take home the Tupperware set rather than risk it for the new car that might be behind door #2.

[RYFOX]

lol at people wanting payton over mm. payton is the exact same as mccarthy, well besides mccarthy consistently getting into the playoffs and not being a drug addict. also payton's teams have consistently had awful defenses. the grass isn't greener.