Don't Be Hurtin' Lin - The Jeremy Lin Thread 2

Post #1721 » by **fatlever** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:29 pm

Lin is not better than Mike Conley.

bigbob · Post #1722 » by **bigbob** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:40 pm

fatlever wrote:Lin is not better than Mike Conley.

probably not, but like i said just going by stats and nothing else, the story told is different. I agree stats don't tell the whole story though, but there is nothing to be surprised about with my statement that lin is better than conley. Lin is good enough to be a starting PG on more than a few teams in this league.

TinmanZBoy · Post #1723 » by **TinmanZBoy** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:40 pm

lin had one offer from Memphis, the contract is bigger than Hornets for multiple years, how big? nobody knows? I suspect it was a MLE level contract... Memphis style does not fit lin, they play slow tempo, two big men in the middle, inside out games... it is wise he did not take that offer.... Lin himself said that he really did not many options in the summer, a lot were just rumors in the media...
and some lin fans still insist lin had a lot options in the summer???
Conley is top 10 PG in this league, at times a top 5 the last couple of seasons, if you don't believe it, just wait and see how big a contract he will get this off season, he is a free agent...
lin might have some improvement, but really no major improvement... don't get me wrong, he was already a pretty good player, otherwise linsanity would never have happened... i hold a higher standard or expectation for him, that's where my disappointment comes from...

bigbob · Post #1724 » by **bigbob** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:42 pm

TinmanZBoy wrote:lin had one offer from Memphis, the contract is bigger than Hornets for multiple years, how big? nobody knows? I suspect it was a MLE level contract... Memphis style does not fit lin, they play slow tempo, two big men in the middle, inside out games... it is wise he did not take that offer.... Lin himself said that he really did not many options in the summer, a lot were just rumors in the media...
and some lin fans still insist lin had a lot options in the summer???
Conley is top 10 PG in this league, at times a top 5 the last couple of seasons, if you don't believe it, just wait and see how big a contract he will get this off season, he is a free agent...
lin might have some improvement, but really no major improvement... don't get me wrong, he was already a pretty good player, otherwise linsanity would never have happened... i hold a higher standard or expectation for him, that's where my disappointment comes from...

conley is NOT top 10 pg in the league, loool...cmon bro

TinmanZBoy · Post #1725 » by **TinmanZBoy** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:43 pm

guys, go watch more games other than lin's teams.... saying Lin is better than Conley is absurd...

bigbob · Post #1726 » by **bigbob** » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:44 pm

TinmanZBoy wrote:lin had one offer from Memphis, the contract is bigger than Hornets for multiple years, how big? nobody knows? I suspect it was a MLE level contract... Memphis style does not fit lin, they play slow tempo, two big men in the middle, inside out games... it is wise he did not take that offer.... Lin himself said that he really did not many options in the summer, a lot were just rumors in the media...
and some lin fans still insist lin had a lot options in the summer???
Conley is top 10 PG in this league, at times a top 5 the last couple of seasons, if you don't believe it, just wait and see how big a contract he will get this off season, he is a free agent...
lin might have some improvement, but really no major improvement... don't get me wrong, he was already a pretty good player, otherwise linsanity would never have happened... i hold a higher standard or expectation for him, that's where my disappointment comes from...

i think that this season for lin has been a GREAT experience so far. Just having the experience to play off ball instead of always creating shots himself will expand his game, in my opinion. Its rare that a PG plays SG, so I think he should enjoy it and get the most out of it while he can.

bws94 · Post #1727 » by **bws94** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:00 am

bigbob wrote:
fatlever wrote:Lin is not better than Mike Conley.

probably not, but like i said just going by stats and nothing else, the story told is different. I agree stats don't tell the whole story though, but there is nothing to be surprised about with my statement that lin is better than conley. Lin is good enough to be a starting PG on more than a few teams in this league.

On some so-so teams but he doesn't have great handles. I think Lin is also a better transitional, motion, fast PG than a half-court PG. Lin should play some PG, but he should really work on his footing, beating traps, getting to spots, using his mid-range jumper and having enough 1-on-1 moves to get to it, and perfecting his floater. Defensively, he's good. Continue tweaking it to get it better. Perhaps get better at keeping guys in front of him.

bws94 · Post #1728 » by **bws94** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:02 am

bigbob wrote:
TinmanZBoy wrote:lin had one offer from Memphis, the contract is bigger than Hornets for multiple years, how big? nobody knows? I suspect it was a MLE level contract... Memphis style does not fit lin, they play slow tempo, two big men in the middle, inside out games... it is wise he did not take that offer.... Lin himself said that he really did not many options in the summer, a lot were just rumors in the media...
and some lin fans still insist lin had a lot options in the summer???
Conley is top 10 PG in this league, at times a top 5 the last couple of seasons, if you don't believe it, just wait and see how big a contract he will get this off season, he is a free agent...
lin might have some improvement, but really no major improvement... don't get me wrong, he was already a pretty good player, otherwise linsanity would never have happened... i hold a higher standard or expectation for him, that's where my disappointment comes from...

conley is NOT top 10 pg in the league, loool...cmon bro

Conley is an excellent PG. I think he's close to top 10 and he's a real PG, not a scoring PG like Irvin, Kemba or Rose. Guys like Wall and Westbrook work off of their athleticism and scoring, but have improved their assists and playmaking. I still find them to be combo guards as opposed to guys like Rubio, Rondo, CP3 and Conley.

Post #1729 » by **fatlever** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:22 am

For most of the past 5 years Conley has been a top 10 PG by my rankings. Sadly, too many people just look at the raw stats with Conley and underrate him. He's one of the top defensive guards in the league. He is a master at playing at different tempos and controlling the game. He could put up bigger numbers on a team that didnt play so slow and pound the ball down to Gasol and Zach. He's having a rough shooting start to the season, but I'm not going to hold a few months against him.

bws94 · Post #1730 » by **bws94** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:09 am

Interesting game for Lin against Utah. On the surface it looks ho-hum. Just 9 points in 37 minutes and an OK but not spectacular 5 assists. Didn't even get to the foul line, his specialty. But there's much more to his game than that. He really held his own defensively, made few mistakes on that end of the court, made a few timely assists, promoted ball movement, and biggest was got loose balls and then did good things with them for his team mates. He's obviously not his explosive self and his ankle is still weak if not really as sore as it's been.

KM6 · Post #1731 » by **KM6** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:08 pm

Most everyone had been saying Batum deserves a max for his next contract. I wonder what do people here think about Lin's value?

I would think he most definitely would look to become a starter somewhere else, so if Hornets would like to keep him here as a 6th man/part-time starter type of player, they would need to pay him a little extra.

Do you guys think Hornets would try to retain him? And how much is the organization willing to pay him and for how many years?

Post #1732 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:17 pm

KM6 wrote:I would think he most definitely would look to become a starter somewhere else, so if Hornets would like to keep him here as a 6th man/part-time starter type of player, they would need to pay him a little extra.

"Extra" compared to what he is getting paid now, or extra as in what they would pay to a starter?

Braggins · Post #1733 » by **Braggins** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:22 pm

His value next season if he plays at about the same level he is now for the rest of this season is probably in the 7-11 mil per year range. I'd try to get him to go for an 24/3 deal with a player option for year 3.

KM6 · Post #1734 » by **KM6** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:23 pm

yosemiteben wrote:
KM6 wrote:I would think he most definitely would look to become a starter somewhere else, so if Hornets would like to keep him here as a 6th man/part-time starter type of player, they would need to pay him a little extra.

"Extra" compared to what he is getting paid now, or extra as in what they would pay to a starter?

Regardless, my question is more about do you guys feel the Hornets organization would like to retain him, and if so, how much do you think they are willing to pay and for how many years.

I think we can disregard his current contract, because we all know he is more valuable than his current 2 mil per year salary warrants.

uballer · Post #1735 » by **uballer** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:34 pm

KM6 wrote:
yosemiteben wrote:
KM6 wrote:I would think he most definitely would look to become a starter somewhere else, so if Hornets would like to keep him here as a 6th man/part-time starter type of player, they would need to pay him a little extra.

"Extra" compared to what he is getting paid now, or extra as in what they would pay to a starter?

Regardless, my question is more about do you guys feel the Hornets organization would like to retain him, and if so, how much do you think they are willing to pay and for how many years.

I think we can disregard his current contract, because we all know he is more valuable than his current 2 mil per year salary warrants.

I think that they will be willing to pay him 10-12m/yr for a three year contract with a team option for 3rd year.

Braggins · Post #1736 » by **Braggins** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:35 pm

I can't imagine us not wanting him back. How much we are willing to give him will be dependent on who else we sign and how much cap we have to use on our backup PG.

KM6 · Post #1737 » by **KM6** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:57 pm

Braggins wrote:I can't imagine us not wanting him back. How much we are willing to give him will be dependent on who else we sign and how much cap we have to use on our backup PG.

If my understanding is correct, the Hornets already locked up Kemba, MKG, Lamb, Frank, and possibily Cody. Al is taking up a huge chunk of the salary cap and I don't see his game fitting with the current hornets play style. I would either trade him for an athletic big who can grab rebounds well, move to set screens and play PnR, and finish above the rim or maybe just get some first round picks and get one such player in free agency if possible.

Then if they can lock up Batum and Lin, the starting 5 could be a combination of Kemba, Lin, Batum, Lamb, MKG, Frank, Cody and the new big.

Marvin has been good for the Hornets, but I feel Frank can fulfill his role with some more playing time. Hornets desperately needs a stronger presence down low and I don't think Marvin can be that guy.

I feel this 8 guy rotation would provide depth, youth, shooting, defense and character.

Post #1738 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:00 pm

I think Lin likes Charlotte, Cliff, and this team, even if he's frustrated with his performance this season (specifically his low shooting %'s). I expect him to want to stick around and to take a discount to do it. I wouldn't be shocked if he exercises his player option - I think his initial deal made it clear that money wasn't the priority and I doubt that has changed.

Post #1739 » by **fatlever** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:02 pm

Its hard to really get a read on what to expect with salaries next summer with the big salary cap jump coming. Based on what Lin is giving us know, he feels like a MLE level player, something in the 5-7 mil range. What will that translate to in the summer, I'm not really sure. I'd love to have him back, but I'd have a really hard time with anything over 7-8 mil a season for anything longer than 3 years. Something similar to what Lamb received 3/21 seems about right to me. Its the golden age of point guards. It would not be that difficult to find a quality backup point guard/combo guard for 7-8 mil per season or less.

KM6 · Post #1740 » by **KM6** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:10 pm

yosemiteben wrote:I think Lin likes Charlotte, Cliff, and this team, even if he's frustrated with his performance this season (specifically his low shooting %'s). I expect him to want to stick around and to take a discount to do it. I wouldn't be shocked if he exercises his player option - I think his initial deal made it clear that money wasn't the priority and I doubt that has changed.

I also believe he likes his new teammates and coaching staff, even the fans had been nothing but class here. However I don't think he would exercise his player option to stay. A new contract maybe but not the player option. That 2 year discount had more to do with him trying to restore his value than anything else.

During the first half season, he had showed he is a plus defender if not a defensive specialist; he can play off ball which had always been a knock on him; and given his role, even though his assists dropped a little bit, he also greatly reduced his passing TOs. His shooting should improve as he settles in wih his new shooting mechanic. In my opinion, he is a much better player than his Linsanity year. But he had been over looked all his life so I wouldn't be surprised if he takes a 7 to 8 mil per contract after this year.

However, I do hope he gets to start somewhere if he accepts a 7/8 mil per year contract. I think his fair value as a full time starter should be around at least 10 to 11 mil per year.