Game 43: Indiana Pacers (22-19) at Phoenix Suns (13-29)

[Saberestar]

Yeah, I just saw the quote on azcentral

“We’re looking for guys who are going to hustle,” Hornacek said. “And if you don’t hustle, we’ll take you out. We expect good things out of T.J. He’s a great player. But every guy off that bench needs to bring some energy. You’re sitting there. You get your shot in the game. You need to go. You don’t have three minutes to warm up and get in the game. He’s going to have to be ready next time. Be out there and lay it all out there. If you’re going to jog after a ball, then you shouldn’t be out there.”

I wasn't paying attention for those three minutes but I do agree that people, especially at this point, at least need to put in effort. Many here have been demanding guys get benched if they don't follow instructions so I guess he is doing that. You don't want TJ developing bad habits or playing with a lack of energy.

TJ has been odd this season. He will be really hot and all over the place on offensive rebounds, and then he won't seem to be engaged in the game at times for whatever reason.

That is all on Hornacek.

He rewards bad habits CONSTANTLY, and the players do not know what he wants from them and what their role is on the team. He changes his mind every game, it is ridiculous.

Warren is a serious player and hard worker that is all professionalism.

Hornacek is a master destroying confidence, and he is toying with Warren's feelings and role on the team...and he is a young player that needs his coach on his side, not against him.

[letsgosuns]

Maybe Warren should throw a towel at Hornacek during a game. He would be back in the starting lineup in no time.

[letsgosuns]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeIUGlrp8LU[/youtube]

[NavLDO]

Yeah, I just saw the quote on azcentral

“We’re looking for guys who are going to hustle,” Hornacek said. “And if you don’t hustle, we’ll take you out. We expect good things out of T.J. He’s a great player. But every guy off that bench needs to bring some energy. You’re sitting there. You get your shot in the game. You need to go. You don’t have three minutes to warm up and get in the game. He’s going to have to be ready next time. Be out there and lay it all out there. If you’re going to jog after a ball, then you shouldn’t be out there.”

I wasn't paying attention for those three minutes but I do agree that people, especially at this point, at least need to put in effort. Many here have been demanding guys get benched if they don't follow instructions so I guess he is doing that. You don't want TJ developing bad habits or playing with a lack of energy.

TJ has been odd this season. He will be really hot and all over the place on offensive rebounds, and then he won't seem to be engaged in the game at times for whatever reason.

I don't think anyone disagrees with this sentiment, but it would be nice if the standard was enforced for vets and young'ns alike, and a player shouldn't just be benched for perceived lack of effort; players should be benched for lack of productivity and/or poor decision making leading to a negative impact on our team/the game.

if Horny wants to teach a lesson, do it for half. You don't sit one of your top players (and yes, I consider Warren one of our top players...sadly) for an entire game at the expense of the team, tanking or not.

[RunDogGun]

With all the comments, and the eight turnovers, I expected to see Knight with the worst +/-, and he had the best for our starters with +5.

Good to see Len was able to stay on the floor for 21 mins, and not fouling out.

Only proves that conventional boxscore plus minus is a misleading stat when taken out of context because it only measures the differential in team score between a player being on/off the court court. So we just assume that a player is doing something to help his team outscore the opponent even if its the lineup change thats the reason. Thats why you need regularized APBR metrics like RAPM to adjust for teammate strength and situation factors, standardized to the league average to a give net rating per 100 possesion. With Horny's mindnumbing rotations he basically throws crap at the wall in hopes that it sticks. Knight did not by any stretch of the imagination have a good game even though he broke even

He didn't break even, he was +5, in 41 out of the 48 minutes. I'm not making any assumptions, nor did I say he had a good game, just merely pointing out that he was the only starter with a +. Why make assumptions from what I wrote?

[RunDogGun]

Yeah, I just saw the quote on azcentral

“We’re looking for guys who are going to hustle,” Hornacek said. “And if you don’t hustle, we’ll take you out. We expect good things out of T.J. He’s a great player. But every guy off that bench needs to bring some energy. You’re sitting there. You get your shot in the game. You need to go. You don’t have three minutes to warm up and get in the game. He’s going to have to be ready next time. Be out there and lay it all out there. If you’re going to jog after a ball, then you shouldn’t be out there.”

I wasn't paying attention for those three minutes but I do agree that people, especially at this point, at least need to put in effort. Many here have been demanding guys get benched if they don't follow instructions so I guess he is doing that. You don't want TJ developing bad habits or playing with a lack of energy.

TJ has been odd this season. He will be really hot and all over the place on offensive rebounds, and then he won't seem to be engaged in the game at times for whatever reason.

I don't think anyone disagrees with this sentiment, but it would be nice if the standard was enforced for vets and young'ns alike, and a player shouldn't just be benched for perceived lack of effort; players should be benched for lack of productivity and/or poor decision making leading to a negative impact on our team/the game.

if Horny wants to teach a lesson, do it for half. You don't sit one of your top players (and yes, I consider Warren one of our top players...sadly) for an entire game at the expense of the team, tanking or not.

It's a catch twenty-two in this. While we are clearly developing our super youth, you can't let those players develop bad habits, which almost always happen when a team is on a massive losing spiral. First and foremost, we need to get rid of the older guys, who are putting in little effort overall.

[letsgosuns]

Hornacek's coaching is an embarrassment.

Hornacek might have played for Jerry Sloan and some other great coaches and been bred to become a coach but that does not make HIM a good coach. I cannot think of any coach ever that does the things he does. Get a technical and you are benched. Bench Goodwin for three years. Play three small point guards at the same time.

Everybody here realizes that Booker is only playing because Bledsoe is hurt right? Because if Bledsoe never got hurt, Booker would be rotting on the bench just like Goodwin has. Warren should have been playing 20 minutes a game last year but Hornacek did not play him in favor of far less talented players.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, I just saw the quote on azcentral

“We’re looking for guys who are going to hustle,” Hornacek said. “And if you don’t hustle, we’ll take you out. We expect good things out of T.J. He’s a great player. But every guy off that bench needs to bring some energy. You’re sitting there. You get your shot in the game. You need to go. You don’t have three minutes to warm up and get in the game. He’s going to have to be ready next time. Be out there and lay it all out there. If you’re going to jog after a ball, then you shouldn’t be out there.”

I wasn't paying attention for those three minutes but I do agree that people, especially at this point, at least need to put in effort. Many here have been demanding guys get benched if they don't follow instructions so I guess he is doing that. You don't want TJ developing bad habits or playing with a lack of energy.

TJ has been odd this season. He will be really hot and all over the place on offensive rebounds, and then he won't seem to be engaged in the game at times for whatever reason.

I don't think anyone disagrees with this sentiment, but it would be nice if the standard was enforced for vets and young'ns alike, and a player shouldn't just be benched for perceived lack of effort; players should be benched for lack of productivity and/or poor decision making leading to a negative impact on our team/the game.

if Horny wants to teach a lesson, do it for half. You don't sit one of your top players (and yes, I consider Warren one of our top players...sadly) for an entire game at the expense of the team, tanking or not.

I guess it depends on what works with him, and that I don't know. I think some of the guys like Markieff are kind of a lost cause. From what I've seen so far out of Booker and Warren, it seems that whatever Hornacek has done to bring them along to allow them to become as impressive as they have been at times, is working. As for some of the other guys, the only one that seems to put in max effort most all the time, is PJ. I think Knight puts in quite a bit of effort, it's just that much of it is so low bbiq that it's terrible to watch.

[RunDogGun]

Hornacek's coaching is an embarrassment.

Hornacek might have played for Jerry Sloan and some other great coaches and been bred to become a coach but that does not make HIM a good coach. I cannot think of any coach ever that does the things he does. Get a technical and you are benched. Bench Goodwin for three years. Play three small point guards at the same time.

Everybody here realizes that Booker is only playing because Bledsoe is hurt right? Because if Bledsoe never got hurt, Booker would be rotting on the bench just like Goodwin has. Warren should have been playing 20 minutes a game last year but Hornacek did not play him in favor of far less talented players.

It wasn't getting a tech, it was arguing with a ref.

We played well overall with those three point guards.

You forgot that he took a losing team to a 48 win team, losing its best/second best player for most of that year.

There is no need to exaggerate points at this time in the year, we are all frustrated.

[Blackification]

The only player on the floor more than TJ is Tucker. Hornacek is full of **** with those comments

[letsgosuns]

Before Bledsoe got injured, Devin Booker averaged 14.1 minutes per game and 5.4 ppg. He appeared in 25 of 31 Suns games. He had 5 DNP and 1 inactive.

From the game Bledsoe got injured against Philadelphia until now (12 games), Booker is playing 30.4 minutes per game and averaging 15.4 ppg on 48.5% fg.

Let's put that into perspective. As a rookie, Amare played 31.3 minutes per game and averaged 13.5 ppg on 47.2% fg and won rookie of the year.

I said somewhat recently that if Booker actually got consistent playing time he could be in the conversation for rookie of the year. Maybe not win it, but certainly he could make the All-Rookie 1st team. None of this happens if Bledsoe does not get hurt which forces Hornacek to play Booker. It is a shame.

Against Durant, Warren had 29 pts, 9 rbs, 3 ast, 4 stl, 0 to, 11-17 fg, including 3-5 3pts, in 41 minutes. Warren has played 44 minutes in the last three games COMBINED.

Great coaching Hornacek.

[thamadkant]

My only explanation why Tucker is getting heaps of burn over Warren is to increase his value and shop him around.

[letsgosuns]

Eric Bledsoe said this in Coro's article from this morning:

“I just watch our guys and tell them what I see as a leader of the team,” Bledsoe said. “This team pretty much has been a disaster. Everybody sees that. We definitely can take steps in the right direction by everyone playing the right way, working on their games, especially our young players getting a chance to get experience. There are some positives we can take out of it.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2016/01/19/suns-eric-bledsoe-focused-coming-back-dominate/79034960/

He says two things which are true but the GM refuses to say it and the coach refuses to do it.

1. The team is a disaster yet McDonough refuses to acknowledge this.

2. Get experience for the young players but Hornacek refuses to commit to this.

[RunDogGun]

Before Bledsoe got injured, Devin Booker averaged 14.1 minutes per game and 5.4 ppg. He appeared in 25 of 31 Suns games. He had 5 DNP and 1 inactive.

From the game Bledsoe got injured against Philadelphia until now (12 games), Booker is playing 30.4 minutes per game and averaging 15.4 ppg on 48.5% fg.

Let's put that into perspective. As a rookie, Amare played 31.3 minutes per game and averaged 13.5 ppg on 47.2% fg and won rookie of the year.

I said somewhat recently that if Booker actually got consistent playing time he could be in the conversation for rookie of the year. Maybe not win it, but certainly he could make the All-Rookie 1st team. None of this happens if Bledsoe does not get hurt which forces Hornacek to play Booker. It is a shame.

Against Durant, Warren had 29 pts, 9 rbs, 3 ast, 4 stl, 0 to, 11-17 fg, including 3-5 3pts, in 41 minutes. Warren has played 44 minutes in the last three games COMBINED.

Great coaching Hornacek.

How is Amare's situation, putting things into perspective? Who was ahead of him? And aging injured Tom Gugliota? There was no one else. So Amare got minutes because we had no one else that was any good at the power forward spot.

We already had a starting sg, who was averaging close to 20 points per game, ahead of Booker. So duh, he would be coming off the bench, and getting less minutes if Bledsoe was still able to play. We put a ton of money into our backcourt, and we have Booker signed for a while. And Jeff also tried Booker at the three spot, so there would have been room to get some minutes even if Bledsoe was in. 14 mins for a rookie with a 17+ guy ahead of him sounds resonable.

So what about Warren's minutes? Maybe he is displaying bad habits that the coach doesn't want him doing. Maybe he is using PJ to light a fire under TJ's butt. Stop trying be the coach.

[thamadkant]

Hornacek wanting to win as much as possible is a personal goal since he wants his win/loss ratio as good as possible for future jobs, he is out of contract at seasons end.
He doesnt have much excuses either.... he has Knight, Chandler, Tucker etc. Who are somewhat respected and hence he is considered under achieving.

The solution is to TRADE veterans and go young. Hornacek can atleast say the team was rebuilding.

[RunDogGun]

Eric Bledsoe said this in Coro's article from this morning:

“I just watch our guys and tell them what I see as a leader of the team,” Bledsoe said. “This team pretty much has been a disaster. Everybody sees that. We definitely can take steps in the right direction by everyone playing the right way, working on their games, especially our young players getting a chance to get experience. There are some positives we can take out of it.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2016/01/19/suns-eric-bledsoe-focused-coming-back-dominate/79034960/

He says two things which are true but the GM refuses to say it and the coach refuses to do it.

1. The team is a disaster yet McDonough refuses to acknowledge this.

2. Get experience for the young players but Hornacek refuses to commit to this.

Booker played 40 mins last night, and as you pointed out, Warren played 41 against OKC. How the heck is he not committing minutes to our super youth?

[RunDogGun]

Hornacek wanting to win as much as possible is a personal goal since he wants his win/loss ratio as good as possible for future jobs, he is out of contract at seasons end.
He doesnt have much excuses either.... he has Knight, Chandler, Tucker etc. Who are somewhat respected and hence he is considered under achieving.

The solution is to TRADE veterans and go young. Hornacek can atleast say the team was rebuilding.

You're making assumptions to what Hornacek is thinking. It doesn't make your argument stronger, it weakens it, for you are guessing, and then basing your argument on a what could easily be a false premise. Btw, most competitive people want to win.

We only have two players with more than five years in the league, and both of them seem to have had a good impact on our super young guys.

[letsgosuns]

Eric Bledsoe said this in Coro's article from this morning:

“I just watch our guys and tell them what I see as a leader of the team,” Bledsoe said. “This team pretty much has been a disaster. Everybody sees that. We definitely can take steps in the right direction by everyone playing the right way, working on their games, especially our young players getting a chance to get experience. There are some positives we can take out of it.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2016/01/19/suns-eric-bledsoe-focused-coming-back-dominate/79034960/

He says two things which are true but the GM refuses to say it and the coach refuses to do it.

1. The team is a disaster yet McDonough refuses to acknowledge this.

2. Get experience for the young players but Hornacek refuses to commit to this.

Booker played 40 mins last night, and as you pointed out, Warren played 41 against OKC. How the heck is he not committing minutes to our super youth?

Exactly. 41 minutes against the Thunder. And how many games ago was that? The point is to play Warren 30 minutes a night every single game no matter what. Now maybe if Warren goes insane and takes 20 shots in five minutes and misses them all then okay, take him out. But Hornacek has no consistency in his rotations. Warren does not know what to expect. He could play 30 minutes or he could play ten minutes. It is very difficult to relax and improve your game if you are constantly worried about being pulled from the game. Just like Goodwin.

And I showed Amare's statistics compared to Booker because I was pointing out how amazing Booker is playing for a rookie since he started to get consistent playing. As a regular rotation player so far, he is putting up better numbers than Amare did as a rookie. I was not comparing their situations.

Warren's situation is like Amare's. Old and useless player (Gugliotta) in front of Amare and it took Gugliotta getting injured for Amare to take over. However Amare probably would have anyway. But now it is an old and useless player (Tucker) in front of Warren. It is sad. Take a look a Tucker's averages versus Warren's averages and tell me why you would ever play a 30 year old with no offensive game over a 22 year old during a rebuilding year when you are the worst team in basketball. And btw, do not tell me to stop trying to be the coach. This is a Suns basketball forum. I can critique this basketball team any way I choose.

[RunDogGun]

No, that's not the point. The point is develop Warren, and I trust our coaching staff over anything you decide.

Correct, this is a basketball forum, and you are not discussing basketball, you are making over exaggerations, and often flat out false comments. It's sad.

Plus including the OKC game and this last game of 3 minutes, Warren has averaged almost 26 minutes over that nine game span.

[Saberestar]

Eric Bledsoe said this in Coro's article from this morning:

“I just watch our guys and tell them what I see as a leader of the team,” Bledsoe said. “This team pretty much has been a disaster. Everybody sees that. We definitely can take steps in the right direction by everyone playing the right way, working on their games, especially our young players getting a chance to get experience. There are some positives we can take out of it.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2016/01/19/suns-eric-bledsoe-focused-coming-back-dominate/79034960/

He says two things which are true but the GM refuses to say it and the coach refuses to do it.

1. The team is a disaster yet McDonough refuses to acknowledge this.

2. Get experience for the young players but Hornacek refuses to commit to this.

Booker played 40 mins last night, and as you pointed out, Warren played 41 against OKC. How the heck is he not committing minutes to our super youth?

Exactly. 41 minutes against the Thunder. And how many games ago was that? The point is to play Warren 30 minutes a night every single game no matter what. Now maybe if Warren goes insane and takes 20 shots in five minutes and misses them all then okay, take him out. But Hornacek has no consistency in his rotations. Warren does not know what to expect. He could play 30 minutes or he could play ten minutes. It is very difficult to relax and improve your game if you are constantly worried about being pulled from the game. Just like Goodwin.

And I showed Amare's statistics compared to Booker because I was pointing out how amazing Booker is playing for a rookie since he started to get consistent playing. As a regular rotation player so far, he is putting up better numbers than Amare did as a rookie. I was not comparing their situations.

Warren's situation is like Amare's. Old and useless player (Gugliotta) in front of Amare and it took Gugliotta getting injured for Amare to take over. However Amare probably would have anyway. But now it is an old and useless player (Tucker) in front of Warren. It is sad. Take a look a Tucker's averages versus Warren's averages and tell me why you would ever play a 30 year old with no offensive game over a 22 year old during a rebuilding year when you are the worst team in basketball. And btw, do not tell me to stop trying to be the coach. This is a Suns basketball forum. I can critique this basketball team any way I choose.

This.

Hornacek was a "?" at the beginning of the season...but after losing 14 out of the last 15 games there are not more "?" here.

He is stricktly one of the worst coachs that I have seen in my life, and he is gonna be remembered as the coach of the worst Phoenix Suns team in the history.
Really sad.