Do Clipper Fans Even Like Doc Rivers?

bestnamezRtaken · Post #1 » by **bestnamezRtaken** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:38 pm

As someone who isn't a Clippers fan (#RIPCITY), I do not like Doc Rivers as a coach, at all. I've never thought he was a good coach. Honestly, if you would have put almost any other coach in place of Rivers during the first year of KG/Allen/Pierce era, same outcome. Then you have Rondo developing into what he became and he wasn't able to take them back to the gold again.

And now, he's holding the Clippers back. They've had some decent teams the past couple of years but can never get over the hump...and it's because of Doc Rivers.

In Orlando, he coached his team to a 171-168 record before getting fired after the Magic went 1-10 in his final season with them. Just barely above .500%. The only reason the Magic even made the playoffs, was because of Tracy McGrady taking over the league.

Then he got a gig with the Celtics, led them to 102-144 before Celtics General Manager Danny Ainge put together the big three of Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Ray Allen, leading them to 314-161. If anyone else was coaching during those Celtic years, they might have won more. Almost any other coach that was available, could have done better with the big 4 (Rondo). Then the big 4 broke up and he was getting burnt out on coaching...until Vinny Del Negro got fired from the Clippers.

Now with the Clippers, all he does is run his mouth and fail with stacked stars.
Final thought: Doc Rivers is garbage.

Your thoughts?

nickhx2 · Post #2 » by **nickhx2** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:05 pm

i do not like doc rivers

MrHill · Post #3 » by **MrHill** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:35 pm

I've never been all that impressed with Doc Rivers as a coach, and especially as a front office executive. He's done some good things for the franchise as a whole, but if you had VDN coaching this team now, in my opinion, I don't see the team being much different than they are now (although I think VDN, who was given front office responsibilities in his final season here, would probably had DeAndre traded or let him go to Dallas). It's definitely looking more and more clearer that Doc likes to play favorites, but it's often at the determent of the team (Austin Rivers just being on the team, Jamal shooting us out of games, not giving Cole Aldrich and Pablo Prigioni enough playing time unless Doc is forced to, and just letting Lance and Josh Smith waste away on the bench).

I think Doc realizes that he's probably another playoff meltdown away from getting s-canned, but my confidence in Ballmer in hiring the right guy for the job isn't quite there.

Wammy Giveaway · Post #4 » by **Wammy Giveaway** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:36 pm

Everybody has lost trust on Doc Rivers. All of his moves have been personal.

1. Josh Smith defeated Doc's Clippers last year in the playoffs. He was trying to turn him into Rasheed Wallace, a former Celtic who played for Doc before. Josh is no Wallace. There was also a sense of spite. By taking Josh away from the Rockets, Houston would have been out of the playoffs completely. It looked that way at first: Rockets were in the playoffs with a lottery record, and Kevin McHale was fired. But the Rockets still defeated the Clippers twice in the regular season. Doc thought wrong.

2. Jamal Crawford should have been traded by now, but his special ability in 4-point plays, dazzling audiences with his crossovers, and having defeated Doc's Big 3 Celtics in the past have prevented the coach from shipping him out. His friendship with Steve Ballmer, sharing the Seattle connection, along with his friendships with Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan, also contribute to his stay in Clipperland. Doc has thrust Crawford into 4th quarter situations with no defense to speak of because of his presumed ability to make clutch shots and Sudden Death Shots. Doc thought right, but we know it's wrong.

3. Paul Pierce is Doc's lucky charm and security blanket. Without Pierce, Doc is exposed as a mediocre coach. Doc is 59-47 in the playoffs with Pierce; 18-24 without him. Doc has never made the conference finals by himself. He is the only coach in NBA history to have suffered 3-1 collapses twice - Pierce was never a part of those collapses. Every small forward that Doc has tried since coaching the Clippers was meant to emulate or replace the production of Pierce. In Doc's mind, Pierce was the only small forward he ever liked and knew. Having him around makes Doc believe with a sense of entitlement that he can do no wrong. Doc thought right, but we've yet to know if it's wrong.

4. The greatest personal move ever made by Doc Rivers was the trade for his son Austin. A draft bust awaiting to be exiled from the league, Doc made a move to save his son from a terrible fate. It reeked of favoritism, serving as the symbol to what Doc always stood for: family over business. There have been times where Doc allowed his son to develop his game further at the actual expense of the Clipper's playoff chances. If Doc had a chance to trade for a superstar like Kevin Durant, and the Thunder would have required Doc to give up his son in the trade, you'd know that he'll never do it because he loves his son too much. He would rather lose with love than win with power. Given the fact that Doc's son actually prevented the Clippers from being in a 3-1 predicament and guaranteed elimination against the Spurs last year and how the father-son relationship saved the Clippers chemistry from being further broken up (ie: Jordan's Indecision with the Mavericks), this can be considered a pass. Doc thought right, but we all know it's wrong.

Doc Rivers has been corrupted by pettiness and love.

LACtdom · Post #5 » by **LACtdom** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:39 pm

I'm not ashamed to admit that Doc was one of my favorite coaches during his time at the celtics. I loved their defensive grit and was hoping he would bring that culture here. In hindsight, it turns out that success wasn't necessarily his doing. I desperately want a new coach but I don't know who would be good enough. I've always wanted Thibs or JVG but maybe we give Blatt a go?

Ranma · Post #6 » by **Ranma** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:54 pm

I've always thought of Doc Rivers as an overrated coach even when he won his lone championship with the Big 3 in Boston. I wasn't even a fan of our pursuit of him, especially with the cost of a draft pick and the demands for say in personnel decisions, but I understood that it was a necessity to get him given that he was supposedly the players' preferred choice. However, that doesn't mean I don't think he's evolved into a decent to good coach. He's particularly good at designing plays out of time outs and I genuinely believe that he has the ability to get us over the hump in capturing an NBA title provided that he gets out of his own way.

Despite his initial attempts to swap DJ for KG, he's done a remarkable job in convincing DJ to be a major contributor to our defense. DeAndre Jordan is still not close to being perfect defensively or at the free-throw line, but he is so much better than before Doc's arrival. Also, in spite of my criticisms for not getting enough in the Eric Bledsoe deal, I have to acknowledge the genius of identifying J.J. Redick as a fit for his system. J.J. has been a godsend for this team's offense; I just wish we could have capitalized more on his acquisition as an UFA who could have easily been included in deals with teams with cap space. He's also done a good job in letting Blake develop his all-around game.

It's just that his other moves have been wanting to say the least. It shouldn't be as hard to fine-tune the rest of the team, but his subsequent personnel moves and corresponding coaching decisions have been a disaster overall. Although, he does seem to be making progress in learning from his on-the-job training but that progress has been slow. His dismissive attitude towards trading and developing draft picks has been irresponsibly short-sighted. His tendency to acquire players with whom he's familiar with without seeming regard for fit for his own system has been woefully incompetent. His complaints of roster inflexibility after the fact is laughably unconvincing. Surrounding himself with cronies in executive personnel evaluation positions just reinforces his shortcomings. He's undermining his own objective with his own stubborn cluelessness.

Having said that and despite being previously accused of not liking the man personally, I've come to respect Doc for what he and his family went through in experiencing a racist form of terrorism. His efforts to rally and re-unite the organization at every level in the aftermath of the Sterling scandal was a valiant undertaking and scores plenty of points with me, so he's earned some leeway in my book.

However, such admiration and goodwill will only go so far. Like Mike Dunleavy, Sr. before him, I appreciate what he's done for the organization in strengthening our foundation in some respects, but there comes a point and time where you have to perform and meet or exceed expectations and Doc has failed so far not only in getting results but also in exhibiting substantial progress. I may like the man while despising the GM and coach but the lines may eventually be blurred for me if his perplexing decision-making continues to stall our evolution.

For better or worse, Doc is our best shot at a championship this season. Outside of Gregg Popovich, Stan Van Gundy, and maybe Rick Carlisle, the coaches I have a lot of confidence in stewarding this franchise long-term are Brad Stevens and Mike Krzyzewski. I've proposed Tom Thibodeau as a short-term solution for the playoffs, but like Vinny Del Negro before him, he'd only be a stopgap measure just with a higher level of expectations. I've previously discussed GM candidates in another thread.

Post #7 » by **og15** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:21 pm

I was never a big fan of Doc Rivers in the front office, that was since day 1 for me. I also can't say that I have a ton of support for his spin doctor ways in relation to a lot of things, but I liked and still like Doc Rivers the coach, though he makes it quite hard at times.

Doc Rivers the coach is actually good, but like I've said many times, a lot of his front office decisions, or lack thereof (not trading Jamal for example) have affected how one percieves him as a coach and have forced him to make some on court decisions that leave you scratching your head.

MartinToVaught · Post #8 » by **MartinToVaught** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:38 pm

Doc is one of the biggest frauds in the league. I'm not convinced our core can win a ring even with a real coach, but we will never even make it past the second round with this idiot's horrible "coaching" and "general managing." I am so tired of the camera panning over to this clown whining and screaming at refs like a baby after correct foul calls. I'm also tired of any role players who are under the age of 50 and not a member of the Rivers family getting arbitrarily placed in the doghouse, dumped on another team for a bag of basketballs, and replaced by another old fossil who sucks. I have wanted him fired for years now.

When Doc is finally shown the door, I hope we go back to having a separate GM and coach like the franchises that actually win anything do. Dunleavy and Doc's tenure should be proof enough that the combined GM/coach model doesn't work.

DLaren · Post #9 » by **DLaren** » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:49 pm

bestnamezRtaken wrote:. They've had some decent teams the past couple of years but can never get over the hump...and it's because of Doc Rivers.

Did you JUST start watching the Clippers?! We've had great line-ups for the better part of 20 years and have never done a thing with them. No sir, the Clippers were under performing loooong before Doc showed-up.

If you want to focus on the present-day Clippers, this core of CP3/Blake/DJ was going home early every year when Vinny was coaching too -- the common denominator here is the core of CP3/Blake/DJ.

Taken individually, CP3 has been losing in the 2ND-round since he was in college, Blake peaked at the age of 24, & DJ hasn't done anything of note on a basketball court since he left high-shcool...yet people think coaching is the reason these 3 can't get a ring.

I contend that we've placed the keys to the franchise in the hands of 3 guys who don't have championship pedigree. I had high hopes for Blake & DJ (still do), but they consistently come-up small due to their limited skill-sets -- and CP3 consistently comes-up small because he's, well...small.

But to answer the OP's question, I love Doc Rivers as our Coach/GM/Pres/Mouth-piece.

Post #10 » by **QRich3** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:05 am

hot takes! hot takes all around!

Post #11 » by **thanumba2clippersfan** » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:45 pm

I'll say I kinda like him. I'm OK with his coaching and suspect about his GM moves.

Roscoe Sheed · Post #12 » by **Roscoe Sheed** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:52 am

I am somewhat neutral on Doc. I think he is sub-par in terms of GM abilities, but is an above average but not great coach.

He seems to bring in 2-3 guys a year that are complete busts and a guy here and there that works out to a degree (like Wes Johnson and Aldrich). I am upset that he isn't giving Stephenson a bit more of a chance and this is where the nepotism issue comes in. If another player under-achieved for long stretches like Austin does, do you think he would stick with him? I think Stephenson offers more upside to the team than Austin and he sort of plays the same position. I think Stephenson should see some time as the back up 2/3 for the next few games because Austin has been terrible.

Neddy · Post #13 » by **Neddy** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:22 am

what's it to you?

nickhx2 · Post #14 » by **nickhx2** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:54 am

it's a fair question isn't it?

i appreciate that a non-clipper fan suspects that we are not blind, slobbering mouth-breathers who live to d-ride doc rivers all day, the way quite a few haters believe us to be.

i mean sure there are some doc rivers apologists to an extreme but i think most of us probably think the same-ish things. good coach in general, flawed, has done some good things, but lots of terrible things personnel-wise. oh and he needs to STFU when it comes to the refs/media and he needs to actually accept some blame instead of being shocked to all hell when his player pickups can't defend or shoot.

the end.

Neddy · Post #15 » by **Neddy** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:58 am

nickhx2 wrote:it's a fair question isn't it?

i appreciate that a non-clipper fan suspects that we are not blind, slobbering mouth-breathers who live to d-ride doc rivers all day, the way quite a few haters believe us to be.

i mean sure there are some doc rivers apologists to an extreme but i think most of us probably think the same-ish things. good coach in general, flawed, has done some good things, but lots of terrible things personnel-wise. oh and he needs to STFU when it comes to the refs/media and he needs to actually accept some blame instead of being shocked to all hell when his player pickups can't defend or shoot.

the end.

you know damn well how I feel about Doc, but you don't find it rather odd to see a poster who is my fellow Oregonian, who has made 18 posts since Feburary of 2011 suddenly feeling compelled to make a thread about a coach and a GM of a team he doesn't pull for?

I find the fact that you guys don't find it disturbing, troublesome.

unfornutately, my state of Oregon has been ransacked by a bunch of tax cheating, federal loan skipping losers from Nevada who's father thinks blacks are better off as slaves. I am simply not buying the fact that this is a thread opened up by someone who happened to have 18 posts in 5 years with a strong interest in clipper basketball, simply because he had no other passion to write about on RealGM who suddenly found that passion and motivation to discuss about a coach that does not coach his own team... yeah I am gonna take that at its face value, like hell.

nickhx2 · Post #16 » by **nickhx2** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:59 am

i don't find it odd and while i can understand your cynicism, i don't share any feelings of it. if he's trolling or trying to passive-aggressively insult the franchise he's doing a pretty crappy job at it.

i'd say at most he wants to know if we feel the same way as he does. at most he wants to troll us about doc rivers, which is a weird thing to troll a fan base about because most of us dislike him for one reason or another, whether it be management, coaching, or personality. it's low hanging fruit when there are other much better things to needle a clipper fan about.

Kmartshopper · Post #17 » by **Kmartshopper** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:21 am

Yes. You can go now.

CoachD · Post #18 » by **CoachD** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:06 pm

LACtdom wrote:I'm not ashamed to admit that Doc was one of my favorite coaches during his time at the celtics. I loved their defensive grit and was hoping he would bring that culture here. In hindsight, it turns out that success wasn't necessarily his doing. I desperately want a new coach but I don't know who would be good enough. I've always wanted Thibs or JVG but maybe we give Blatt a go?

As much as I've never been a fan of Doc ... SVG is even worse.

If you want a Van Gundy ... HIRE JEFF!!!
Dude is literally the best coach in the world without an NBA job right now.

Quake Griffin · Post #19 » by **Quake Griffin** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:07 pm

Winning solves everything.

I think he's fine as a coach and he would work with a quality GM in place.
Not a doubt in my mind that if he gets fired here, he can go win somewhere else if the situation is right.

If this organization's infrastructure was in place and Ballmer didn't push a square peg (Doc) into a round hole (GM), we could accomplish more imo.

But he's losing his mandate with the people. Bad trades. Burned assets. Failed signings etc. etc. He can't get out of his own way and the fact he's a good coach (IMO) isn't outweighing the other factors. People hate him enough to act like he's become a bad coach etc. etc. That's hogwash and they're really just nitpicking some of his flaws and pairing them with him being the GM. No coach is perfect. Not even Popovich. Get over it.

Wammy Giveaway · Post #20 » by **Wammy Giveaway** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:47 pm

Quake Griffin wrote:But he's losing his mandate with the people. Bad trades. Burned assets. Failed signings etc. etc. He can't get out of his own way and the fact he's a good coach (IMO) isn't outweighing the other factors. People hate him enough to act like he's become a bad coach etc. etc. That's hogwash and they're really just nitpicking some of his flaws and pairing them with him being the GM. No coach is perfect. Not even Popovich. Get over it.

With the latest report of Griffin fighting with an assistant equipment staff manager at Toronto coming to light, will this be put on the plate of Doc Rivers? He may be forced to trade him because of the scandal (yes, Lucas Hann of Clips Nation even reported that the Clippers tried to cover this up for fear of a media backlash). If he doesn't trade him, the hatred of the team and of Doc will be justified. But if he does trade him, Clippers could be back to being a lottery team, and the fans would boo him anyway. It's a lose-lose.

Most likely, Doc was too in love with his newfound power of Coach/GM/Father that he tried to ignore the Griffin scandal.