Trade Deadline Countdown....What will we do? What should we do?

[Mr Puddles]

You're basically trading a 1st rounder, Kieff and Chandler for Randle and the right to move up 1 or 2 picks at best.

Contrary to popular opinion, Randle is terrible. I watch the Lakers a lot and I would never want him on the Suns.

The Suns would hold the best chance of getting either Ben Simmons or Ingraham though. Say we end up with the 2nd worst record in the league and the (now somewhat improved) Lakers with the 5th worst. No team in the NBA would have a better chance of winning the lottery that we do - either the Suns get a top two pick, or perhaps the Lakers do and we swap picks. That alone is not a bad deal for trading overpaid chandler and useless Keiff. This does depend on what pick we're trading. If it's the CLE #1, I say yes. If it's either one of the Miami picks, I say no.

I don't think you make trades based on something that boils down to luck....the lottery is luck. Everyone's odds are less than a coin flip, so it is always going to be random. Sure it's better to buy more lottery tickets so you have more chances, but it's still unlikely you win because there are a lot of other people in the game. Besides, no one is trading a chance at getting Simmons or Ingram at this point.

It's not just luck:

1. We dumb chandler's contract and get rid of Keiff. Neither guy has much value at the moment.
2. We get effrctively a rookie player who is averaging close to a double double and is already one of the better rebounders in the game.
3. Again looking at the scenario that the Suns end with the second worst record (Lakers now sightly improved with Love) and LAL ends up with the fifth - we close to a 30 % chance of winning the lottery and 55% of getting a top 2 pick. That's better than any other team.

Cleveland's draft pick will be at the end of the first round. Most picks in that region don't even last more than a hand full of NBA games. If that's the price to pay for all of the above, I'm all for it.

[bwgood77]

The Suns would hold the best chance of getting either Ben Simmons or Ingraham though. Say we end up with the 2nd worst record in the league and the (now somewhat improved) Lakers with the 5th worst. No team in the NBA would have a better chance of winning the lottery that we do - either the Suns get a top two pick, or perhaps the Lakers do and we swap picks. That alone is not a bad deal for trading overpaid chandler and useless Keiff. This does depend on what pick we're trading. If it's the CLE #1, I say yes. If it's either one of the Miami picks, I say no.

I don't think you make trades based on something that boils down to luck....the lottery is luck. Everyone's odds are less than a coin flip, so it is always going to be random. Sure it's better to buy more lottery tickets so you have more chances, but it's still unlikely you win because there are a lot of other people in the game. Besides, no one is trading a chance at getting Simmons or Ingram at this point.

It's not just luck:

1. We dumb chandler's contract and get rid of Keiff. Neither guy has much value at the moment.
2. We get effrctively a rookie player who is averaging close to a double double and is already one of the better rebounders in the game.
3. Again looking at the scenario that the Suns end with the second worst record (Lakers now sightly improved with Love) and LAL ends up with the third - we close to a 30 % chance of winning the lottery and 55% of getting a top 2 pick. That's better than any other team.

Cleveland's draft pick will be at the end of the first round. Most picks in that region don't even last more than a hand full of NBA games. If that's the price to pay for all of the above, I'm all for it.

Maybe I didn't see your original trade proposal with Love going to the Lakers, but anyway, I am guessing you are aware the Philly also holds Sac's pick, I think, so if they are in the lottery, those odds get added to their top 3 odds, so we might not hold the best, but perhaps we did...but even at 55%, still pretty much a coin flip. I'm not sure if your original trade proposal had the Lakers giving us our pick back or what but if so, that is extremely unlikely.

[RaisingArizona]

We're overreacting for saying Hornacek should be fired? You're underreacting if you think he shouldn't be fired. There, I can make blanket statements, too.

[Mr Puddles]

I don't think you make trades based on something that boils down to luck....the lottery is luck. Everyone's odds are less than a coin flip, so it is always going to be random. Sure it's better to buy more lottery tickets so you have more chances, but it's still unlikely you win because there are a lot of other people in the game. Besides, no one is trading a chance at getting Simmons or Ingram at this point.

It's not just luck:

1. We dumb chandler's contract and get rid of Keiff. Neither guy has much value at the moment.
2. We get effrctively a rookie player who is averaging close to a double double and is already one of the better rebounders in the game.
3. Again looking at the scenario that the Suns end with the second worst record (Lakers now sightly improved with Love) and LAL ends up with the third - we close to a 30 % chance of winning the lottery and 55% of getting a top 2 pick. That's better than any other team.

Cleveland's draft pick will be at the end of the first round. Most picks in that region don't even last more than a hand full of NBA games. If that's the price to pay for all of the above, I'm all for it.

Maybe I didn't see your original trade proposal with Love going to the Lakers, but anyway, I am guessing you are aware the Philly also holds Sac's pick, I think, so if they are in the lottery, those odds get added to their top 3 odds, so we might not hold the best, but perhaps we did...but even at 55%, still pretty much a coin flip. I'm not sure if your original trade proposal had the Lakers giving us our pick back or what but if so, that is extremely unlikely.

The trade I was referring to was by jcsunsfan: Kieff, Chandler and a pick to the Cavs. Love to the Lakers. Hibbert, Randle, Mozgov and right to swap picks with the Lakers to Phoenix.

SSOL responded saying that this is a bad trade for the Suns.

I said that that as long as it's the Cleveland pick and not one of the Miami picks I would do it in a heart beat. I think the Cavs can get a better deal for Love though. Lakers would do it 10 out of 10 times.

[bwgood77]

We're overreacting for saying Hornacek should be fired? You're underreacting if you think he shouldn't be fired. There, I can make blanket statements, too.

Yes, you are overreacting, especially given our current circumstances, and if you thinks he sucks so bad, why fire him? Our young guys look good under his tutelage, and it looks like he gave them playing time at the right time to have the confidence to play well.

If you want a high pick and think he sucks, why fire him? Do you want us to get more wins?

As many mistakes as McD and Hornacek have made, personally I'd rather let them ride out together (and God help us, McD somehow undo his bonehead moves and give the coach a different roster) but these guys are MUCH better than the guys trying to patch together a team with Scola, Gortat, and Dudley (even though they are great role players for teams now...we were not going anywhere with them), drafting Marshall, signing Beasley, trying to sign Gordon, getting Childress and Warrick......regardless of what you think of Hornacek, he had a much better coaching mind than Hunter and Porter and probably Gentry, who has done nothing without following D'Antoni's system with many of the same players...when he lost some of them, he was awful too.

[bwgood77]

It's not just luck:

1. We dumb chandler's contract and get rid of Keiff. Neither guy has much value at the moment.
2. We get effrctively a rookie player who is averaging close to a double double and is already one of the better rebounders in the game.
3. Again looking at the scenario that the Suns end with the second worst record (Lakers now sightly improved with Love) and LAL ends up with the third - we close to a 30 % chance of winning the lottery and 55% of getting a top 2 pick. That's better than any other team.

Cleveland's draft pick will be at the end of the first round. Most picks in that region don't even last more than a hand full of NBA games. If that's the price to pay for all of the above, I'm all for it.

Maybe I didn't see your original trade proposal with Love going to the Lakers, but anyway, I am guessing you are aware the Philly also holds Sac's pick, I think, so if they are in the lottery, those odds get added to their top 3 odds, so we might not hold the best, but perhaps we did...but even at 55%, still pretty much a coin flip. I'm not sure if your original trade proposal had the Lakers giving us our pick back or what but if so, that is extremely unlikely.

The trade I was referring to was by jcsunsfan: Kieff, Chandler and a pick to the Cavs. Love to the Lakers. Hibbert, Randle, Mozgov and right to swap picks with the Lakers to Phoenix.

SSOL responded saying that this is a bad trade for the Suns.

I said that that as long as it's the Cleveland pick and not one of the Miami picks I would do it in a heart beat. I think the Cavs can get a better deal for Love though. Lakers would do it 10 out of 10 times.

That would never happen anyway, so imo worthless discussion, but I will say I value your posts and contributions.

[AtheJ415]

We're overreacting for saying Hornacek should be fired? You're underreacting if you think he shouldn't be fired. There, I can make blanket statements, too.

If people made the excuses for other coaches that some make for him on here, no coach would ever be fired. I'd like to see somebody actually break down the individual things Jeff has done well this year. There aren't many.

[Mr Puddles]

Maybe I didn't see your original trade proposal with Love going to the Lakers, but anyway, I am guessing you are aware the Philly also holds Sac's pick, I think, so if they are in the lottery, those odds get added to their top 3 odds, so we might not hold the best, but perhaps we did...but even at 55%, still pretty much a coin flip. I'm not sure if your original trade proposal had the Lakers giving us our pick back or what but if so, that is extremely unlikely.

The trade I was referring to was by jcsunsfan: Kieff, Chandler and a pick to the Cavs. Love to the Lakers. Hibbert, Randle, Mozgov and right to swap picks with the Lakers to Phoenix.

SSOL responded saying that this is a bad trade for the Suns.

I said that that as long as it's the Cleveland pick and not one of the Miami picks I would do it in a heart beat. I think the Cavs can get a better deal for Love though. Lakers would do it 10 out of 10 times.

That would never happen anyway, so imo worthless discussion, but I will say I value your posts and contributions.

Thank you my good man. I value you valuing my posts and contribution.

[AtheJ415]

We're overreacting for saying Hornacek should be fired? You're underreacting if you think he shouldn't be fired. There, I can make blanket statements, too.

Yes, you are overreacting, especially given our current circumstances, and if you thinks he sucks so bad, why fire him? Our young guys look good under his tutelage, and it looks like he gave them playing time at the right time to have the confidence to play well.

If you want a high pick and think he sucks, why fire him? Do you want us to get more wins?

As many mistakes as McD and Hornacek have made, personally I'd rather let them ride out together (and God help us, McD somehow undo his bonehead moves and give the coach a different roster) but these guys are MUCH better than the guys trying to patch together a team with Scola, Gortat, and Dudley (even though they are great role players for teams now...we were not going anywhere with them), drafting Marshall, signing Beasley, trying to sign Gordon, getting Childress and Warrick......regardless of what you think of Hornacek, he had a much better coaching mind than Hunter and Porter and probably Gentry, who has done nothing without following D'Antoni's system with many of the same players...when he lost some of them, he was awful too.

The bolded is baseless. Booker was great right out of the gates. He scored the 2nd most points ever by a teenager in a debut in game 1. Jeff then sat him for weeks. Warren has played consistently well with minutes for years. I could just as easily say that Jeff has finally given them minutes due to injury, thus they are finally showing the confidence and ability they had all along, or that they at least would have had if they had been given minutes. Seriously, you think the guy who benches them and only them for lack of hustle and holds them to higher standards than anyone else on the team is mostly concerned with giving them confidence? I'd say that shows the opposite.

Jeff's failed in so many ways as a head coach, and this season he is one of the few that has lost the team. You can continue to have faith in Jeff, but until he learns how to manage people, he will never be able to be an elite coach and will never get a title. Managing personalities and chemistry is hugely important and Jeff is the worst coach at that that I have ever seen. You can blame Brandon Knight for everything, but you shouldn't absolve the guy that is supposedly trying to teach him how to take smart shots and how to be disciplined when he plays him league leading minutes no matter what he does on the court. It's ridiculous to ignore his role in all of this. He's every bit as responsible as anyone for what we're seeing this year.

[AtheJ415]

Why is everyone up in arms that Hornacek hasn't been fired yet? He played Booker/Warren/Archie/Len all over 30 minutes last night, Booker even played 43 minutes. I mean, he kinda had to with only 8 players suited up, but still we're losing games playing our young guns and hopefully land a top pick in the process. What more can you guys ask for?

Overreactions, lack of people seeing big picture, lack of seeing he has dealt with probably the worst roster disfunction in the league and crap talent over the last few years (maybe not crappiest talent, but when combined with playoff expectations, relatively speaking, and roster turnover, disgruntled players due to FO moves, crappy injuries, etc) not good. It's funny, the Celtics wanted him when they ended up going with Doc Rivers and then the Sixers when they went with Brett Brown....I think in both situations, the FO situation would have been perfect for him to do well. He is likely going to be that Belichick/Carroll guy, that coached in crappy run organizations (Browns/Pats at the time) their first time around, and then came back to lead teams to being very good....if he even decides to coach again.

Dude. Sacramento. I would cringe at what would happen if we dealt for Cousins. My hope is Jeff is just young and needs to improve, but given the hand he's been dealt, he's been absolutely awful. Screw playoff expectations. I want not getting blown out by the Lakers and 76ers expectations. Many D-league teams could accomplish that.

[bwgood77]

Why is everyone up in arms that Hornacek hasn't been fired yet? He played Booker/Warren/Archie/Len all over 30 minutes last night, Booker even played 43 minutes. I mean, he kinda had to with only 8 players suited up, but still we're losing games playing our young guns and hopefully land a top pick in the process. What more can you guys ask for?

Overreactions, lack of people seeing big picture, lack of seeing he has dealt with probably the worst roster disfunction in the league and crap talent over the last few years (maybe not crappiest talent, but when combined with playoff expectations, relatively speaking, and roster turnover, disgruntled players due to FO moves, crappy injuries, etc) not good. It's funny, the Celtics wanted him when they ended up going with Doc Rivers and then the Sixers when they went with Brett Brown....I think in both situations, the FO situation would have been perfect for him to do well. He is likely going to be that Belichick/Carroll guy, that coached in crappy run organizations (Browns/Pats at the time) their first time around, and then came back to lead teams to being very good....if he even decides to coach again.

Dude. Sacramento. I would cringe at what would happen if we dealt for Cousins. My hope is Jeff is just young and needs to improve, but given the hand he's been dealt, he's been absolutely awful. Screw playoff expectations. I want not getting blown out by the Lakers and 76ers expectations. Many D-league teams could accomplish that.

We killed the Lakers earlier this year, and they have some good young players, and the Sixers have Okafor, Noel, Covington and now Ish to feed those guys. Regardless of their tactics, they have not swayed from the rebuild like we have since we both started out with a rebuild when they did.

They have still gotten drastically outscored more than we have, as have the Lakers this year. Not so much lately after our best player went down and our second best player from last year decided he didn't care too much. We are starting to finally play the young guys but you seem to expect far too much far too quickly.

Hornacek makes mistakes, as do all coaches....and just a couple of months ago, you were still undecided on how he was doing. Then you quickly changed your tune as to how bad he is despite all of our roster problems and injuries. We now have been playing our youngsters, but you seem to expect them to be a lot better than they have been, and they have been good at times, but their defense has not been so good, so we axed Longabardi and haven't replaced him.

Not sure why you are indicating I have advocated a Cousins trade, but that isn't likely to happen anyway, and I have never made a statement that it is a possible move.

[Qwigglez]

Did anyone see Robin Lopez slap Chris Paul in the face twice. Effing great, mad respect for Robin Lopez for that.

[JMac1]

Lol at Lopez, I missed it. I will check it out on youtube. I'd trade for Love, but he'd mess up our tank efforts. I prefer Simmons over Love!

[jcsunsfan]

Lol at Lopez, I missed it. I will check it out on youtube. I'd trade for Love, but he'd mess up our tank efforts. I prefer Simmons over Love!

I want both.


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[SunsFanSSOL]

Interesting, Knight is seeking a 2nd opinion on his injury from his agent's doctor in LA. That seems abnormal...

Maybe the Suns told him the injury was worse than it really was in hopes of keeping him out. Or maybe he doesn't trust our staff.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2016/01/22/suns-face-7-injuries-brandon-knight-seeks-2nd-opinion/79198016/

[rsavaj]

I would do Knight/Kieff for Love YESTERDAY. Would totally salvage the initial trade for Knight IMO

[Mr Puddles]

Golden State's bench seems to be lacking a go to scorer. Would Mirza for Kevon Looney be realistic? Telly is one of the better bench scorers in the league and playing with Livingston, Iggy, Festus, would ameliorate his deficiencies on defence. His three point shooting will be a good fit for GS as well.

[Qwigglez]

^I think it's realistic. The Warriors have all their key guys locked up. Telly would just improve their depth.

[Qwigglez]

I would do Knight/Kieff for Love YESTERDAY. Would totally salvage the initial trade for Knight IMO

You add that Cavs pick and all of a sudden every Suns fan loses their mind.

[bigfoot]

Yes, you are overreacting, especially given our current circumstances, and if you thinks he sucks so bad, why fire him? Our young guys look good under his tutelage, and it looks like he gave them playing time at the right time to have the confidence to play well.

If you want a high pick and think he sucks, why fire him? Do you want us to get more wins?

As many mistakes as McD and Hornacek have made, personally I'd rather let them ride out together (and God help us, McD somehow undo his bonehead moves and give the coach a different roster) but these guys are MUCH better than the guys trying to patch together a team with Scola, Gortat, and Dudley (even though they are great role players for teams now...we were not going anywhere with them), drafting Marshall, signing Beasley, trying to sign Gordon, getting Childress and Warrick......regardless of what you think of Hornacek, he had a much better coaching mind than Hunter and Porter and probably Gentry, who has done nothing without following D'Antoni's system with many of the same players...when he lost some of them, he was awful too.

The bolded is baseless. Booker was great right out of the gates. He scored the 2nd most points ever by a teenager in a debut in game 1. Jeff then sat him for weeks. Warren has played consistently well with minutes for years. I could just as easily say that Jeff has finally given them minutes due to injury, thus they are finally showing the confidence and ability they had all along, or that they at least would have had if they had been given minutes. Seriously, you think the guy who benches them and only them for lack of hustle and holds them to higher standards than anyone else on the team is mostly concerned with giving them confidence? I'd say that shows the opposite.

Jeff's failed in so many ways as a head coach, and this season he is one of the few that has lost the team. You can continue to have faith in Jeff, but until he learns how to manage people, he will never be able to be an elite coach and will never get a title. Managing personalities and chemistry is hugely important and Jeff is the worst coach at that that I have ever seen. You can blame Brandon Knight for everything, but you shouldn't absolve the guy that is supposedly trying to teach him how to take smart shots and how to be disciplined when he plays him league leading minutes no matter what he does on the court. It's ridiculous to ignore his role in all of this. He's every bit as responsible as anyone for what we're seeing this year.

Great post as usual

How anyone can support Hornacek at this point is really beyond belief.

I guess that makes Charles Barkley and Reggie Miller wrong too.