Trade Deadline Countdown....What will we do? What should we do?

[Mulhollanddrive]

Assuming we don't have anything they want for Love too.

Not much point for effectively trading pick 1 for a bunch of worse players in Knight, Chandler and fillers.

I think we're stuck and need to get lucky.

[NavLDO]

Why is everyone up in arms that Hornacek hasn't been fired yet? He played Booker/Warren/Archie/Len all over 30 minutes last night, Booker even played 43 minutes. I mean, he kinda had to with only 8 players suited up, but still we're losing games playing our young guns and hopefully land a top pick in the process. What more can you guys ask for?

Maybe we... I don't know... maybe we expect our coach to actually coach the team. Hornacek has no playbook whatsoever. Every offensive possession for the Suns is either a fast break or a pick-and-roll/drive-and-kick. 3rd year in a row the Suns are in the bottom 5 in the league in assist rate (we were #30 in 2014 and 2015). And there's no reason why a team with Bledsoe (before he got injured), Tucker, Chanlder and Len on the roster should be sooo bad on the defensive end.

And please don't blame everything on our lack of talent. Heck, last year the Bucks before Knight was traded to Phoenix were #2 in the league in defensive efficiency. IMO with a good coach the Suns can be successful with Knight playing 30+ minutes per game. Dude has skills but he needs a guidance from his coach to realize his talent. He's not getting it from Hornacek. Knight dribbling aimlessly for 20 seconds on every possession is not all his fault. Some of that is on Jeff.

Hornacek's "I don't care, I'm already fired" coaching isn't helping anyone right now.

Agreed. I've defended Hornacek on a number of occasions, but his 'moving the goal posts' standards are what finally have me wondering how good of a coach he's been for us this season. Holding players to different sets of standards just confounds me. The ONLY reason I could MAYBE see why he does this is because he's already felt he's lost Kieff, Knight, Tucker, etc.--'old dogs, new tricks' mentality, but feels Booker, TJ, Len, and Goodwin can still benefit from a 'firm hand'.

But from a fan' perspective, it simply looks like unequal standards for different players. I'm actually on the fence with Horny, and would be ok with either decision. He is in an unenviable position, that's for sure. He has almost nothing to work with, but is some of that his doing? IDK. I do know that I don't want to try to salvage this season, as bad as that may sound. What I mean is, I'd like to get as many minutes for Goodwin, Booker, TJ, and Len--concentrate on their development and see what they are by season's end, so we know best what direction to go in the draft/FA; concentrate our efforts on building a better team next season, not try to 'band-aid' this season.

And honestly, I wouldn't mind giving Horny another chance next season with a decent roster. But if he is fired, I wouldn't cry about it either, because while he's not solely to blame, he does share a good portion of it.

[NavLDO]

fire the carpenter when the blueprints are bad?

You still end up with bad house.

And what happens when the blueprints are good but the carpenter still sucks? Bad analogy for this situation. Jeff has been plenty awful all on his own.

oh I see.... This roster is not the problem..... at all.

Im indifferent about Hornecek.... but to ignore McDithers' role in this is an over site.

IMO, the only reason Hornecek is still coaching is, behind the doors, the blame is shared for this **** of a season. We'll see come the next/annual roster gutting. Sure, we have a nice young core developing.... but the long term inkings are questionable and have shown more downside than up.

Frank, I think we sort of agree on this. Yes, McD has made a couple of questionable trades, but he's made some darn good ones when under pressure, like the Dragic trade last season. And no, that doesn't help the team this or next year, but it was still good value for an over the hill, declining talent that gave him what, a few days to work with and 3 teams to choose from?

But yes, this roster is not great, and McD made some poor choices (Chandler, Knight), but that is MMQBing at its best. Chandler was questionable, but was made to lure LMA. Knight was looked upon favorably when we acquired him, by most, but now we are stuck with two overpaid players, and a broken Bledsoe. But also, Frank, you have to recognize that what were expected to be two core players for this team got greedy/big-headed (Dragic) or stupid (Kieff), and both McD and Horny have had to deal with that, along with another role player (Marcus) being stupid as well.

But all that said, yes, Horny and McD DO share blame in this, and neither are blameless, but both have had to deal with situations beyond their control. Anyone that blames one has to blame the other as well, which is why I am ok if Horny stays and starts next season, because honestly, I'd still like to give McD another chance in the draft and FA and get the 3rd 'jackwad' off this team, and see if he can unload Chandler and/or Knight in the process. Because if there is one thing I think McD does well, is deal. He's cold and calculating and heartless, to be sure, but he gets it done more often than not.

[RaisingArizona]

I can't take this calm before the storm.

[RunDogGun]

Every morning I wake up hoping to see Kieff traded ... disappointed yet again.

I'm the same way. There just must not be a good enough offer, and the farther we slide, the worse the offers must get. I'm guessing McD is waiting for someone to finally think Morrus is worth something to make a move. I'm guessing either someone goes down in that position (and Morris is able to suit up), on a contender, who may be stacked at another position, and have a pick. Probably in a week, or maybe at the trade deadline.

With our limited roster, anything worth trading from us is injured.

[King4Day]

It's nice to have something to talk about in the idea of Love coming up, but remember. Isaiah Thomas and Kieff were supposedly on the table when Love had about 2-3 months left in an expiring deal.
Now that he's locked up, his value is much greater. Kieff and Tucker won't get it don't and I'm not sure adding Knight and a pick or Chandler and a pick will approve hose chances either.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I think the love talk is a moot point because if Cleveland makes him available other teams have better win now packages to offer than the suns.

But hypothetically if it was possible would it really be worth the cost? (I'd assume multiple draft picks and some vet combo) The cavs are dealing him because teams like the Warriors pick and roll him to death... is it really a good idea to build around him?

[BobbieL]

I think the love talk is a moot point because if Cleveland makes him available other teams have better win now packages to offer than the suns.

But hypothetically if it was possible would it really be worth the cost? (I'd assume multiple draft picks and some vet combo) The cavs are dealing him because teams like the Warriors pick and roll him to death... is it really a good idea to build around him?

All depends on if GM LeBron wants Kieff

The Cavs problems right now as I see them
1) Love is not used properly
2) who scores the ball besides LeBron and Kyrie

Kieff has a nice mid range game and Knight would give them backcourt depth. Chandler or Tucker add defense

There are merits to the trade for Cleveland in terms of getting "role" players to balance out the roster

[ATTL]

Have we talked about toronto as a destination for kieff?
patrick patterson
James Johnson
Knicks pick

For

Kieff

[BobbieL]

Have we talked about toronto as a destination for kieff?
patrick patterson
James Johnson
Knicks pick

For

Kieff

He would give a lot more offense than PP. I like it

[WeekapaugGroove]

I think the love talk is a moot point because if Cleveland makes him available other teams have better win now packages to offer than the suns.

But hypothetically if it was possible would it really be worth the cost? (I'd assume multiple draft picks and some vet combo) The cavs are dealing him because teams like the Warriors pick and roll him to death... is it really a good idea to build around him?

All depends on if GM LeBron wants Kieff

The Cavs problems right now as I see them
1) Love is not used properly
2) who scores the ball besides LeBron and Kyrie

Kieff has a nice mid range game and Knight would give them backcourt depth. Chandler or Tucker add defense

There are merits to the trade for Cleveland in terms of getting "role" players to balance out the roster

I guess it would depend on what they think of Knight. If they think he could play crunch time minutes along side Irving maybe they consider it. But if I'm them I'd prefer a guy like Jay Crowder along with pieces from boston. They could really use a good two way wing so they can play Bron at the 4 when other teams go small.

[Frank Lee]

I think McDoNothing will live up to this name. Perhaps we move Tucker or Tele to a contending team, but the rest of our pieces just don't have the attraction or don't yield the value. They have weathered the MoBro PR storm and I would not be surprised if the FO just holds onto what we have till the Lotto/draft shakes out.... then swing for the fences. Frankly, MoBro with a clean legal slate and a year separation from his severed siamese twin should be much more marketable.

Of course, the standard spin-spew will be issued....how hard they tried to make a deal, but nothing seemed to really improve the team. Which in this case is likely true. At this point, the plus by minus theory should be ignored as it looks like we are headed for a top 5 pick.

[RunDogGun]

I think McDoNothing will live up to this name. Perhaps we move Tucker or Tele to a contending team, but the rest of our pieces just don't have the attraction or don't yield the value. They have weathered the MoBro PR storm and I would not be surprised if the FO just holds onto what we have till the Lotto/draft shakes out.... then swing for the fences. Frankly, MoBro with a clean legal slate and a year separation from his severed siamese twin should be much more marketable.

Of course, the standard spin-spew will be issued....how hard they tried to make a deal, but nothing seemed to really improve the team. Which in this case is likely true. At this point, the plus by minus theory should be ignored as it looks like we are headed for a top 5 pick.

Didn't he trade one third of the team last year at the trade deadline? That seems like the antithesis of doing nothing. You may not like the moves, but you can't say that he consistently does nothing.

[jcsunsfan]

fire the carpenter when the blueprints are bad?

You still end up with bad house.

This is more like firing the architect when the carpenter insists on doing his own thing.

[Frank Lee]

Thats my prediction AKA......Last yr he was in desperation/damage control mode.... the year... not so much. The damage has been done and actually, he is headed for perhaps the best pick in his career (that he didn't trade ) while getting max time to his slew of young ponies.

[jcsunsfan]

Every morning I wake up hoping to see Kieff traded ... disappointed yet again.

I feel you. I have been waiting and waiting. First it was 12/15 and talk of Ryan Anderson. Than 1/15 for Brewer

My guess is SArver is not letting Ryan McD trade him for crappy value. But now that there is talk Cleveland may want him - what about this trade. Its been posted before but this might give Cleveland a better chance at the title than current roster. And they are so far in cap hell - why not.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Suns have to do something

No, they don't. Cleveland has to do something. They are in win-now mode and the window with LeBron will close fairly soon. The Suns are in rebuilding mode. Losses are an advantage. They do not NEED to make deals. They need to make GOOD deals. Better no deal than a bad one.

[Frank Lee]

fire the carpenter when the blueprints are bad?

You still end up with bad house.

This is more like firing the architect when the carpenter insists on doing his own thing.

[NavLDO]

I think McDoNothing will live up to this name. Perhaps we move Tucker or Tele to a contending team, but the rest of our pieces just don't have the attraction or don't yield the value. They have weathered the MoBro PR storm and I would not be surprised if the FO just holds onto what we have till the Lotto/draft shakes out.... then swing for the fences. Frankly, MoBro with a clean legal slate and a year separation from his severed siamese twin should be much more marketable.

Of course, the standard spin-spew will be issued....how hard they tried to make a deal, but nothing seemed to really improve the team. Which in this case is likely true. At this point, the plus by minus theory should be ignored as it looks like we are headed for a top 5 pick.

Didn't he trade one third of the team last year at the trade deadline? That seems like the antithesis of doing nothing. You may not like the moves, but you can't say that he consistently does nothing.

Yes, "McDoNothing" might be your worst "McD-ism" yet. Why force the issue now? Nothing short of trading our entire roster for the Warriors' roster is going to change the outlook of this team.

But yes, we are in fact, headed for a top 5 pick, likely. At worst, top 8, I would assume. By winning 20 more games, we likely drop 4-5 picks and still miss the playoffs. What would be the point in that?

It's one thing to try to get there when hovering around .500 or better, like the past two seasons, but this season? No point in trying to get better before the trade deadline; that would be counterintuitive. The longer we wait, the better off our chances of getting value, because some other close-to-8th-seed team will pay a premium for helping get them over the hump and in the Playoffs. Now? Too soon to tell, well, unless your the Suns and are getting blown out by the Wolves by 30 points...

Feb 18th is 26 days, or about 14 games away...a lot can happen to a team's fortune in 14 games...unless, again, you are the Suns...

[jcsunsfan]

fire the carpenter when the blueprints are bad?

You still end up with bad house.

This is more like firing the architect when the carpenter insists on doing his own thing.

NIce. Very gracious. Thanks.

[NavLDO]

This is more like firing the architect when the carpenter insists on doing his own thing.

NIce. Very gracious. Thanks.

You have to understand Frank's perspective McDoNothingRight cannot, well, do anything right, but Horny is excused due to not having anything to work with, Kieff being a butthead, Dragic being lost, Knight stinking it up, etc, all being McD's fault. Yet McD doesn't get those same concessions when items out of his control take place.