Game 45: The Booker Watch against the Hawks.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

22 assist as a team. Great stat.
Chandler showing his leadership. Maybe with Knight and Bledsoe injured Chandler will emerge as the voice and heart of the team.

I hope that game opens up the Archie Goodwin show. I haven't been this excited for him since his rookie year.

It's funny, I was just debating people today about lack of assists for our team and my take was that having shoot first point guards, and more than one or two of them isn't going to help with assists, but then when all those guys are out, and Hornacek has a nice group to play with, we have assists.

It's certainly better, but really we average 20.5 on the season, so we've hit 22 assists plenty times before with our shoot first PGs, and our guards took the bulk of our shots again. It's the system we run. You look at the team assist numbers across the league and most make sense based on how they play. Utah is last, because they post up a ton, for instance.

Archie was 7-17 with 4 assists (although he deserved more imo) and 1 TO. Booker was 6-19 with 1 assist and 3 TOs. Let's be real, we'd crucify both if Bledsoe and Knight put up those lines. It's a system thing, and Booker and Archie played tonight just like our previous guards. Our guards have always been our shot takers and the team overall doesn't get assists because that's how our system is set up. It tries to create a mismatch and then tries to exploit that mismatch 1 on 1. Assists don't come from those scenarios.

On the plus side, Archie hit 8-9 FTs and the game winner, and Len and Chandler had 39 rebounds between them, while Len was 6-10 from the field and had more assists than either of our guards.

I think the video had more to teach than the numbers this game. Archie kept the turnovers down, ran the offense. Fewer turnovers than his opponent, with blocks and steals equaling his turnovers. His defense was good. Our starting backcourt played well - all of our starters played well.

Patience is paying off...

[thamadkant]

I think with the last 2 games, with Goodwin and Booker NOT being 100% play makers.... Chandler and Len has become the "setup" guys.

Imagine a Bogut or heck a Brad Miller type center who plays the give and go with either Goodwin or Booker... it looks good in action with a non-passing big in Chandler so imagine it with a good passing center.

[SideSwipe]

22 assist as a team. Great stat.
Chandler showing his leadership. Maybe with Knight and Bledsoe injured Chandler will emerge as the voice and heart of the team.

I hope that game opens up the Archie Goodwin show. I haven't been this excited for him since his rookie year.

It's funny, I was just debating people today about lack of assists for our team and my take was that having shoot first point guards, and more than one or two of them isn't going to help with assists, but then when all those guys are out, and Hornacek has a nice group to play with, we have assists.

It's certainly better, but really we average 20.5 on the season, so we've hit 22 assists plenty times before with our shoot first PGs, and our guards took the bulk of our shots again. It's the system we run. You look at the team assist numbers across the league and most make sense based on how they play. Utah is last, because they post up a ton, for instance.

Archie was 7-17 with 4 assists (although he deserved more imo) and 1 TO. Booker was 6-19 with 1 assist and 3 TOs. Let's be real, we'd crucify both if Bledsoe and Knight put up those lines. It's a system thing, and Booker and Archie played tonight just like our previous guards. Our guards have always been our shot takers and the team overall doesn't get assists because that's how our system is set up. It tries to create a mismatch and then tries to exploit that mismatch 1 on 1. Assists don't come from those scenarios.

On the plus side, Archie hit 8-9 FTs and the game winner, and Len and Chandler had 39 rebounds between them, while Len was 6-10 from the field and had more assists than either of our guards.

One thing to keep in mind is we are comparing actuals to averages. What that leaves out is our shooting percentage which was quite low tonight. We had a lot of assited plays. Even more than assited makes. To go average to actual comparison, you would need to include us hitting an average number for shooting percentage as well to get a decent idea of how well the ball was being shared.

The ball was getting shared tonight by everyone. Right until the last play by Goodwin.

[AtheJ415]

It's funny, I was just debating people today about lack of assists for our team and my take was that having shoot first point guards, and more than one or two of them isn't going to help with assists, but then when all those guys are out, and Hornacek has a nice group to play with, we have assists.

It's certainly better, but really we average 20.5 on the season, so we've hit 22 assists plenty times before with our shoot first PGs, and our guards took the bulk of our shots again. It's the system we run. You look at the team assist numbers across the league and most make sense based on how they play. Utah is last, because they post up a ton, for instance.

Archie was 7-17 with 4 assists (although he deserved more imo) and 1 TO. Booker was 6-19 with 1 assist and 3 TOs. Let's be real, we'd crucify both if Bledsoe and Knight put up those lines. It's a system thing, and Booker and Archie played tonight just like our previous guards. Our guards have always been our shot takers and the team overall doesn't get assists because that's how our system is set up. It tries to create a mismatch and then tries to exploit that mismatch 1 on 1. Assists don't come from those scenarios.

On the plus side, Archie hit 8-9 FTs and the game winner, and Len and Chandler had 39 rebounds between them, while Len was 6-10 from the field and had more assists than either of our guards.

I think the video had more to teach than the numbers this game. Archie kept the turnovers down, ran the offense. Fewer turnovers than his opponent, with blocks and steals equaling his turnovers. His defense was good. Our starting backcourt played well - all of our starters played well.

Patience is paying off...

I agree they played well. Just find it funny everyone is so much happier with a 6-19 performance with 1 assist from Booker when our normal 2 guard was getting murdered by everyone here for the same thing. I love Booker. Think he'll be a star, but it just shows how favoritism plays a big role in grading a performance in even a single game.

[AtheJ415]

It's funny, I was just debating people today about lack of assists for our team and my take was that having shoot first point guards, and more than one or two of them isn't going to help with assists, but then when all those guys are out, and Hornacek has a nice group to play with, we have assists.

It's certainly better, but really we average 20.5 on the season, so we've hit 22 assists plenty times before with our shoot first PGs, and our guards took the bulk of our shots again. It's the system we run. You look at the team assist numbers across the league and most make sense based on how they play. Utah is last, because they post up a ton, for instance.

Archie was 7-17 with 4 assists (although he deserved more imo) and 1 TO. Booker was 6-19 with 1 assist and 3 TOs. Let's be real, we'd crucify both if Bledsoe and Knight put up those lines. It's a system thing, and Booker and Archie played tonight just like our previous guards. Our guards have always been our shot takers and the team overall doesn't get assists because that's how our system is set up. It tries to create a mismatch and then tries to exploit that mismatch 1 on 1. Assists don't come from those scenarios.

On the plus side, Archie hit 8-9 FTs and the game winner, and Len and Chandler had 39 rebounds between them, while Len was 6-10 from the field and had more assists than either of our guards.

One thing to keep in mind is we are comparing actuals to averages. What that leaves out is our shooting percentage which was quite low tonight. We had a lot of assited plays. Even more than assited makes. To go average to actual comparison, you would need to include us hitting an average number for shooting percentage as well to get a decent idea of how well the ball was being shared.

The ball was getting shared tonight by everyone. Right until the last play by Goodwin.

Our shooting with the guys we usually have is awful though. Bledsoe and Knight routinely play with Tucker, Chandler, Kieff (this year's version), and Price in some combo. That's been a big part of our problem imo. I think a lot of our assists get missed as a result of having overly weak shooting lineups at any given time.

[bwgood77]

It's certainly better, but really we average 20.5 on the season, so we've hit 22 assists plenty times before with our shoot first PGs, and our guards took the bulk of our shots again. It's the system we run. You look at the team assist numbers across the league and most make sense based on how they play. Utah is last, because they post up a ton, for instance.

Archie was 7-17 with 4 assists (although he deserved more imo) and 1 TO. Booker was 6-19 with 1 assist and 3 TOs. Let's be real, we'd crucify both if Bledsoe and Knight put up those lines. It's a system thing, and Booker and Archie played tonight just like our previous guards. Our guards have always been our shot takers and the team overall doesn't get assists because that's how our system is set up. It tries to create a mismatch and then tries to exploit that mismatch 1 on 1. Assists don't come from those scenarios.

On the plus side, Archie hit 8-9 FTs and the game winner, and Len and Chandler had 39 rebounds between them, while Len was 6-10 from the field and had more assists than either of our guards.

I think the video had more to teach than the numbers this game. Archie kept the turnovers down, ran the offense. Fewer turnovers than his opponent, with blocks and steals equaling his turnovers. His defense was good. Our starting backcourt played well - all of our starters played well.

Patience is paying off...

I agree they played well. Just find it funny everyone is so much happier with a 6-19 performance with 1 assist from Booker when our normal 2 guard was getting murdered by everyone here for the same thing. I love Booker. Think he'll be a star, but it just shows how favoritism plays a big role in grading a performance in even a single game.

Good point, but much more excusable for a rookie 19 year old than a $14 million guy per year with 5 years of nba experience.

[thamadkant]

Put into perspective we had 22 assists which is only 2 more than we average per game. Also, Booker and Goodwin took 19 and 17 shots which are two more than what Bledsoe and Knight take.

What looks different is the shorter rotation and the twin towers. Our starters played big minutes.

Yeah. I was going to say, 22 assists isn't that great, particularly when you have so many fast break opportunities. It's certainly better than before, but not by much, and still below where it should be. Essentially, the reason we won was because Goodwin and Booker played like Bledsoe and Knight did early this year, combined with Tyson playing way better, and the Hawks being offensively inept and dysfunctional for 3 quarters.

No, not great, but better even without a real pg out there....I guess I could say none of the players on our roster are real point guards other than Bledsoe (who many call more of a sg) and Price (but obviously he is just a very end of bench guy).

So without any real point guards out there, the ball movement looked pretty good to me.

Agreed.


The Suns IRONICALLY, looks much better in regards to ball movement and play setups without Knight or Bledsoe.

Goodwin dribbling the ball half court, then giving it up quickly to a big man, then the team moves around... is 100% much better to watch. It reminds me of how the Hawks and Spurs play actually... where the assists can come from anyone.

Obviously the Suns arent "masters" at it, but if they do this for the rest of the season, I dont see how they cant become adept and good at it.

Its where the game is going anyways... the Warriors top assists man is a PF, and multiple players get 3 assists or more.... it helps that Curry can turn off his shooting and get 10 assists too. But Iggy, Green, Curry, Bogut are all GOOD passing players.

Spurs same... Parker isnt known as a pass first PG, but the team gets assists from everywhere... the result is an amazing fluid offense that gets the defense moving around and encourages the offensive players to move for better looks too.

[saintEscaton]

Catch me balling now Archie Goodwin. My team just got the dough thats a Goodwin
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcyucDasP3I[/youtube]

[kennydorglas]

It's certainly better, but really we average 20.5 on the season, so we've hit 22 assists plenty times before with our shoot first PGs, and our guards took the bulk of our shots again. It's the system we run. You look at the team assist numbers across the league and most make sense based on how they play. Utah is last, because they post up a ton, for instance.

Archie was 7-17 with 4 assists (although he deserved more imo) and 1 TO. Booker was 6-19 with 1 assist and 3 TOs. Let's be real, we'd crucify both if Bledsoe and Knight put up those lines. It's a system thing, and Booker and Archie played tonight just like our previous guards. Our guards have always been our shot takers and the team overall doesn't get assists because that's how our system is set up. It tries to create a mismatch and then tries to exploit that mismatch 1 on 1. Assists don't come from those scenarios.

On the plus side, Archie hit 8-9 FTs and the game winner, and Len and Chandler had 39 rebounds between them, while Len was 6-10 from the field and had more assists than either of our guards.

I think the video had more to teach than the numbers this game. Archie kept the turnovers down, ran the offense. Fewer turnovers than his opponent, with blocks and steals equaling his turnovers. His defense was good. Our starting backcourt played well - all of our starters played well.

Patience is paying off...

I agree they played well. Just find it funny everyone is so much happier with a 6-19 performance with 1 assist from Booker when our normal 2 guard was getting murdered by everyone here for the same thing. I love Booker. Think he'll be a star, but it just shows how favoritism plays a big role in grading a performance in even a single game.

Its the power of perspective. Booker has 46AST/48TO in the year and people want him running the point for us.
Instead Goodwin has 32AST/23TO and is labeled like a bad playmaker.

[thamadkant]

Yeah just regards to "grading" the players.

Remember

Goodwin = $1,000,000 contract, 21 years old, RARELY played this year.
Booker = $2,500,000 contract, 19 years old, ROOKIE year.
Knight = $15,000,000 contract, 24 years old, 30+ minutes type of player for 3+ seasons.
Bledsoe = $14,000,000 contract, 26 years old, 30+ minutes type of player for 2+ seasons.


Yet, with the same MINUTES, Goodwin and Booker (combined $3,500,000 salary) has provided similar numbers as the other 2 ($29,000,000) players.


Hence, I actually dont understand the hate when HARSH grading to Goodwin who is a 29th pick on $1,000,000 a year.. some referees are paid more than him.


I think... the higher your PAY, the higher your accountability is... they should be more criticized since they are paid to play a really high standard of basketball every night.

[blacksun]

Alex Len at the 4 might not be a joke. It might be his actual natural position a la Kristaps Porzingis. Especially if he keeps knocking down his jumpshots.

[kennydorglas]

Yeah. I was going to say, 22 assists isn't that great, particularly when you have so many fast break opportunities. It's certainly better than before, but not by much, and still below where it should be. Essentially, the reason we won was because Goodwin and Booker played like Bledsoe and Knight did early this year, combined with Tyson playing way better, and the Hawks being offensively inept and dysfunctional for 3 quarters.

No, not great, but better even without a real pg out there....I guess I could say none of the players on our roster are real point guards other than Bledsoe (who many call more of a sg) and Price (but obviously he is just a very end of bench guy).

So without any real point guards out there, the ball movement looked pretty good to me.

Agreed.


The Suns IRONICALLY, looks much better in regards to ball movement and play setups without Knight or Bledsoe.

Goodwin dribbling the ball half court, then giving it up quickly to a big man, then the team moves around... is 100% much better to watch. It reminds me of how the Hawks and Spurs play actually... where the assists can come from anyone.

Obviously the Suns arent "masters" at it, but if they do this for the rest of the season, I dont see how they cant become adept and good at it.

Its where the game is going anyways... the Warriors top assists man is a PF, and multiple players get 3 assists or more.... it helps that Curry can turn off his shooting and get 10 assists too. But Iggy, Green, Curry, Bogut are all GOOD passing players.

Spurs same... Parker isnt known as a pass first PG, but the team gets assists from everywhere... the result is an amazing fluid offense that gets the defense moving around and encourages the offensive players to move for better looks too.

Yeah, I see tonight Hornacek trying to come back to some Princeton's principles here.
It's hard to do without a very good passer at 4/5 but maybe this will give us something to work offensively.
This free-will offense needed to end sometime.

[Jdiddy701]

I just feel bad for TJ Warren. Did not look happy at all even after Archie hitting the game winner. He's too good to be playing only 16 minutes.


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[thamadkant]

I think the video had more to teach than the numbers this game. Archie kept the turnovers down, ran the offense. Fewer turnovers than his opponent, with blocks and steals equaling his turnovers. His defense was good. Our starting backcourt played well - all of our starters played well.

Patience is paying off...

I agree they played well. Just find it funny everyone is so much happier with a 6-19 performance with 1 assist from Booker when our normal 2 guard was getting murdered by everyone here for the same thing. I love Booker. Think he'll be a star, but it just shows how favoritism plays a big role in grading a performance in even a single game.

Its the power of perspective. Booker has 46AST/48TO in the year and people want him running the point for us.
Instead Goodwin has 32AST/23TO and is labeled like a bad playmaker.

Because Booker plays "aesthetically" nicer than Goodwin a lot of times.
Booker so smooth, composed, poised... looks "good" even when he turns the ball over... which is fine.

Goodwin plays jittery (which i blame low confidence, over thinking Xs and Os) especially when shooting or when dribbling under pressure.. so when he turns it over, some fans are not surprised... they already judged that he looked "terrible" dribbling or shooting the ball.. so the TO or missed shot justifies their initial thoughts already.


Booker's offense is special though, he is a smooth and finesse thats his style. Whilst Goodwin is more explosive and jittery... Westbrook-like/Bledsoe-like.... but its just the aesthetics of the player styles. in the end its their production and impact that matters.

[AtheJ415]

No, not great, but better even without a real pg out there....I guess I could say none of the players on our roster are real point guards other than Bledsoe (who many call more of a sg) and Price (but obviously he is just a very end of bench guy).

So without any real point guards out there, the ball movement looked pretty good to me.

Agreed.


The Suns IRONICALLY, looks much better in regards to ball movement and play setups without Knight or Bledsoe.

Goodwin dribbling the ball half court, then giving it up quickly to a big man, then the team moves around... is 100% much better to watch. It reminds me of how the Hawks and Spurs play actually... where the assists can come from anyone.

Obviously the Suns arent "masters" at it, but if they do this for the rest of the season, I dont see how they cant become adept and good at it.

Its where the game is going anyways... the Warriors top assists man is a PF, and multiple players get 3 assists or more.... it helps that Curry can turn off his shooting and get 10 assists too. But Iggy, Green, Curry, Bogut are all GOOD passing players.

Spurs same... Parker isnt known as a pass first PG, but the team gets assists from everywhere... the result is an amazing fluid offense that gets the defense moving around and encourages the offensive players to move for better looks too.

Yeah, I see tonight Hornacek trying to come back to some Princeton's principles here.
It's hard to do without a very good passer at 4/5 but maybe this will give us something to work offensively.
This free-will offense needed to end sometime.

Hey. I'd be entirely fine with more of a motion offense. Movement makes people feel involved even when they don't get the ball. Maybe that's the way to wake our previously lazy vets up.

Also, if we end up with Simmons, that would be a great offensive fit for him and this team's personnel.

[AtheJ415]

Yeah just regards to "grading" the players.

Remember

Goodwin = $1,000,000 contract, 21 years old, RARELY played this year.
Booker = $2,500,000 contract, 19 years old, ROOKIE year.
Knight = $15,000,000 contract, 24 years old, 30+ minutes type of player for 3+ seasons.
Bledsoe = $14,000,000 contract, 26 years old, 30+ minutes type of player for 2+ seasons.


Yet, with the same MINUTES, Goodwin and Booker (combined $3,500,000 salary) has provided similar numbers as the other 2 ($29,000,000) players.


Hence, I actually dont understand the hate when HARSH grading to Goodwin who is a 29th pick on $1,000,000 a year.. some referees are paid more than him.


I think... the higher your PAY, the higher your accountability is... they should be more criticized since they are paid to play a really high standard of basketball every night.

That's certainly fair, and I have liked Goodwin and Booker this year while not being a fan of how Knight's played. The age matters more to me than the salary though. I think a lot of this shooting mentality is our system though moreso than the players. This is an attacking 2 PG system built on driving to the hoop and putting pressure on the other team through beating guys one on one or via pick and roll. We don't run a system like GS, Atlanta, or SAS, where more motion principles exist and the pressure comes from jumpers.

[AtheJ415]

Alex Len at the 4 might not be a joke. It might be his actual natural position a la Kristaps Porzingis. Especially if he keeps knocking down his jumpshots.

Len's going to be a good player. He's athletic enough to play the 4 or 5. I'm not sure where he lands long term, but I'm fairly certain he'll be a 2 way player who starts for us for about 8 years, barring injury. I think he's improved his skillset and body every year. No reason to believe he won't going forward.

[AtheJ415]

I just feel bad for TJ Warren. Did not look happy at all even after Archie hitting the game winner. He's too good to be playing only 16 minutes.


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We need to move Tucker. Hornacek won't be happy, but Warren is our future SF and Tucker is too old to have a place on this team. He has more value to a contender than us. It solves Warren's problem and nets us another asset in the process.

[Mulhollanddrive]

We're still 6.5 games from 8th seed.

Playing Tucker is so useless.

We really should be starting Goodwin, Booker, Warren, Len every game from now on.

[bwgood77]

We're still 6.5 games from 8th seed.

Playing Tucker is so useless.

We really should be starting Goodwin, Booker, Warren, Len every game from now on.

I understand your perspective but playing him might help his trade value and I think his positive energy and effort on the court can be contagious, which helps with the younger guys.