McGinn: Blame for underachieving season falls on McCarthy, Thompson

[Mags FTW]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/blame-for-underachieving-season-falls-on-mike-mccarthy-ted-thompson-b99656523z1-366325731.html

Echoes a lot of the stuff many have said here:

-Coaching staff was a mess.

-Took too long to play Janis. Same with Ryan.

-Offense was pathetic. Other teams did more with less. Adams probably should have been benched. Playcalling needs to be more creative.

-TT needs to sprinkle in more Free Agents to go with his picks.

[WiscoKing13]

First time in awhile I can say great article by Mcginn.

"McCarthy, however, got almost no help from Thompson in 2015 other than the first five selections in the draft. According to several sources, McCarthy is fed up with his boss' unwillingness to take a chance and reinforce the roster with veteran players that might be unknown to the Packers but have the talent to contribute."

Thats a huge nugget that i've never heard.

[BigDee]

I agree this was a great article. Hopefully the GM and coach will wake up however, I'm not going to hold my breath.

[slappyg]

Excellent article. Keith Jackson, Andre Rison, Desmond Howard...all were key additions. TT needs to get off his hands and do some work during the season

[BUCKnation]

Stating the obvious, but TT really needs to make a Woodson like signing. I'd even settle for a Pickett like signing, as I think we are actually solid all the way around.

[Iheartfootball]

Stating the obvious, but TT really needs to make a Woodson like signing. I'd even settle for a Pickett like signing, as I think we are actually solid all the way around.

I agree. So we should make a list of available FA's in that realm. Probably not many but also what about teams that are looking for picks with a marquee slightly over the hill vet? Could comb that list. Not saying Jared Allen is a game changer anymore but someone along those lines. Panthers did well to get him for next to nothing.

Those are the two underlooked areas from TT. Or I should say undervalued. I think he looks but places too much of a premium on picks.

[WiscoKing13]

Stating the obvious, but TT really needs to make a Woodson like signing. I'd even settle for a Pickett like signing, as I think we are actually solid all the way around.

I agree. So we should make a list of available FA's in that realm. Probably not many but also what about teams that are looking for picks with a marquee slightly over the hill vet? Could comb that list. Not saying Jared Allen is a game changer anymore but someone along those lines. Panthers did well to get him for next to nothing.

Those are the two underlooked areas from TT. Or I should say undervalued. I think he looks but places too much of a premium on picks.

Didn't the Bears try and stand Allen up in their 3-4? He probably is a situation 4-3 end rusher the rest of his career. I'm open to exploring FA, but Allen doesn't fit out D.

[RRyder823]

Stating the obvious, but TT really needs to make a Woodson like signing. I'd even settle for a Pickett like signing, as I think we are actually solid all the way around.

I agree. So we should make a list of available FA's in that realm. Probably not many but also what about teams that are looking for picks with a marquee slightly over the hill vet? Could comb that list. Not saying Jared Allen is a game changer anymore but someone along those lines. Panthers did well to get him for next to nothing.

Those are the two underlooked areas from TT. Or I should say undervalued. I think he looks but places too much of a premium on picks.

Didn't the Bears try and stand Allen up in their 3-4? He probably is a situation 4-3 end rusher the rest of his career. I'm open to exploring FA, but Allen doesn't fit out D.

They did try standing him up. He was horrible. It's a big reason they traded him

[humanrefutation]

First time in awhile I can say great article by Mcginn.

"McCarthy, however, got almost no help from Thompson in 2015 other than the first five selections in the draft. According to several sources, McCarthy is fed up with his boss' unwillingness to take a chance and reinforce the roster with veteran players that might be unknown to the Packers but have the talent to contribute."

Thats a huge nugget that i've never heard.

Yeah. It's always been assumed that TT and MM were joined at the hip. Never had you heard a peep of criticism from MM about Ted. And that's with MM never getting enough credit for coaching up Thompson's picks.

In this case, McCarthy is clearly right, but I don't think Thompson is going to change.

[HKPackFan]

Stating the obvious, but TT really needs to make a Woodson like signing. I'd even settle for a Pickett like signing, as I think we are actually solid all the way around.

I agree. So we should make a list of available FA's in that realm. Probably not many but also what about teams that are looking for picks with a marquee slightly over the hill vet? Could comb that list. Not saying Jared Allen is a game changer anymore but someone along those lines. Panthers did well to get him for next to nothing.

Those are the two underlooked areas from TT. Or I should say undervalued. I think he looks but places too much of a premium on picks.

Are there any Greg Olsen types available? I know he's got a nice extension for the next couple years.

[Mags FTW]

I agree. So we should make a list of available FA's in that realm. Probably not many but also what about teams that are looking for picks with a marquee slightly over the hill vet? Could comb that list. Not saying Jared Allen is a game changer anymore but someone along those lines. Panthers did well to get him for next to nothing.

Those are the two underlooked areas from TT. Or I should say undervalued. I think he looks but places too much of a premium on picks.

Are there any Greg Olsen types available? I know he's got a nice extension for the next couple years.

Ladarius Green is the probably the best free agent based on his age and potential. But I've mentioned elsewhere that the Titans are rebuilding and Delanie Walker is headed into the final year of his contract. I would see what kind of pick would get him in a trade.

[Jollay]

But I've mentioned elsewhere that the Titans are rebuilding and Delanie Walker is headed into the final year of his contract. I would see what kind of pick would get him in a trade.

Yes please. Just over $5 million cap hit for Walker. Affordable and worth it for a 5th or so, if the Titans are willing.

ILB is where I will have to require TT to bring in at least a minimal FA to compete, at worst. ILBs are reasonable. The top of the market is probably like David Harris (3 yrs, $21 mil) was last March or so. Class this year isn't that great though, although the Chiefs have a lot of FAs on defense and may thus be outbid for Derrick Johnson.

But look, just bring in something at TE, ILB. Anything. F###ing Brandon Chillar.

[humanrefutation]

Jerrell Freeman would be an interesting target. Colts didn't extend him going into this past season, despite the fact that he held out of OTAs to try to get a deal done. Now he's a FA.

Brandon Marshall in Denver is a young, productive ILB, but he's a RFA.

Mason Foster is still a UFA.

Rolando McClain would be a swing-for-the-fences move - could be incredibly productive, could also end up being cut due to the off-the-field issues.

Vincent Rey was a growing contributor in Cincy behind Maulugua and Burfict. He could be looking for starter money.

[M-C-G]

First time in awhile I can say great article by Mcginn.

"McCarthy, however, got almost no help from Thompson in 2015 other than the first five selections in the draft. According to several sources, McCarthy is fed up with his boss' unwillingness to take a chance and reinforce the roster with veteran players that might be unknown to the Packers but have the talent to contribute."

Thats a huge nugget that i've never heard.

Yeah. It's always been assumed that TT and MM were joined at the hip. Never had you heard a peep of criticism from MM about Ted. And that's with MM never getting enough credit for coaching up Thompson's picks.

In this case, McCarthy is clearly right, but I don't think Thompson is going to change.

McCarthy is not good at accepting blame. He has been here 10 years with Ted, he knows what he signed up for, so to criticize it now looks like he is just trying to shift the blame.

Bottom line, we had plenty of talent on this roster, but we were really poorly coached, especially on offense, and that falls on Mac.

Where would Ted have reasonably upgraded the team?
WR - We thought that was a strength coming into the season
OL - We thought that was a strength coming into the season
QB - We thought that was a strength coming into the season
TE - Jordan Cameron, Charles Clay or Julius Thomas? Maybe.

ST - Punter?

DL - Thought we looked pretty good across the board there
OLB - Really liked what we had there
ILB - Wasn't a great market, but could have used a vet here, though after Barrington got hurt, not sure what there was avail
CB - I love what we have at the position
S - I love what we have at the position

I don't know, definitely could have done something, but I just don't think it was the issue. Universal under-performance is what sunk the team and that is a coaching issue, not talent issue.

[Iheartfootball]

Stating the obvious, but TT really needs to make a Woodson like signing. I'd even settle for a Pickett like signing, as I think we are actually solid all the way around.

I agree. So we should make a list of available FA's in that realm. Probably not many but also what about teams that are looking for picks with a marquee slightly over the hill vet? Could comb that list. Not saying Jared Allen is a game changer anymore but someone along those lines. Panthers did well to get him for next to nothing.

Those are the two underlooked areas from TT. Or I should say undervalued. I think he looks but places too much of a premium on picks.

Didn't the Bears try and stand Allen up in their 3-4? He probably is a situation 4-3 end rusher the rest of his career. I'm open to exploring FA, but Allen doesn't fit out D.

No, no, I don't mean Jared Allen. I mean in general finding guys like him cheaply. Ones that fit. There aren't many in season trades so that was the best example I could think of. I don't think Allen would fit the Packers scheme either.

[Flames24Rulz]

I'm really surprised TT hasn't given FA more of a chance -- Woodson, Pickett and now Peppers is a pretty successful trio of players that he's added from that market.

[Iheartfootball]

But I've mentioned elsewhere that the Titans are rebuilding and Delanie Walker is headed into the final year of his contract. I would see what kind of pick would get him in a trade.

Yes please. Just over $5 million cap hit for Walker. Affordable and worth it for a 5th or so, if the Titans are willing.

What do you think Walker would cost? 4th rounder? Just spit balling. I think he would be a great fit. He was really good with SF and Harbaugh used him well. In Tennessee he's been very good on a bad team.

[Iheartfootball]

I'm really surprised TT hasn't given FA more of a chance -- Woodson, Pickett and now Peppers is a pretty successful trio of players that he's added from that market.

I just don't think guys like that are available every year. Or if they are they don't necessarily fit the budget. At least I think that's TT's thinking.

If they are available I think you find a way to make them work financially. This team has a great base and some good depth. But those kind of guys are finishing touches and that's what this team is lacking right now.

[humanrefutation]

First time in awhile I can say great article by Mcginn.

"McCarthy, however, got almost no help from Thompson in 2015 other than the first five selections in the draft. According to several sources, McCarthy is fed up with his boss' unwillingness to take a chance and reinforce the roster with veteran players that might be unknown to the Packers but have the talent to contribute."

Thats a huge nugget that i've never heard.

Yeah. It's always been assumed that TT and MM were joined at the hip. Never had you heard a peep of criticism from MM about Ted. And that's with MM never getting enough credit for coaching up Thompson's picks.

In this case, McCarthy is clearly right, but I don't think Thompson is going to change.

McCarthy is not good at accepting blame. He has been here 10 years with Ted, he knows what he signed up for, so to criticize it now looks like he is just trying to shift the blame.

Bottom line, we had plenty of talent on this roster, but we were really poorly coached, especially on offense, and that falls on Mac.

Where would Ted have reasonably upgraded the team?
WR - We thought that was a strength coming into the season
OL - We thought that was a strength coming into the season
QB - We thought that was a strength coming into the season
TE - Jordan Cameron, Charles Clay or Julius Thomas? Maybe.

ST - Punter?

DL - Thought we looked pretty good across the board there
OLB - Really liked what we had there
ILB - Wasn't a great market, but could have used a vet here, though after Barrington got hurt, not sure what there was avail
CB - I love what we have at the position
S - I love what we have at the position

I don't know, definitely could have done something, but I just don't think it was the issue. Universal under-performance is what sunk the team and that is a coaching issue, not talent issue.

You're right that Mac doesn't take criticism well, and he obviously deserves some blame for the team's performance.

But, the point of my comment is that Mac gets almost all of the blame and not enough is pointed at the man who's responsible for giving him the pieces.

McCarthy has done an extraordinary job throughout his tenure managing the offense. Capers has managed, year after year, to keep the defense together even when faced with a tremendous number of injuries (although not always successfully). Thompson has done an excellent job building the roster while maintaining the salary cap.

But when the going gets tough, too much blame is given to McCarthy/Capers and not enough blame is given to the GM. McGinn's characterization of Thompson as a glorified Director of College Scouting hits the nail on the head. Sure, rely on the draft, just don't ignore other opportunities to add to the roster.

Imagine if this team added DeMarcus Ware and had him play opposite of Peppers/Matthews? That would terrify opposing offenses. And he signed a very reasonable deal with Denver.

David Harris was signed to a 3 year, 21 million dollar deal in New York. He would have been a dynamic fit on defense and would have allowed the Packers to move Clay outside. Or, alternatively, a Ware/Harris/Matthews/Peppers starting linebacker core would have been the best in the NFL.

Is there a chance you'll bust with one of these guys? Sure...it is always a risk. I don't want to become the Cowboys and try to outspend everyone. But I'd like this team to make smart, creative moves in free agency/trades to plug up that one major weakness that could hold us back. On offense, it was the tight end position. On defense, it was at linebacker. On ST, it was obviously Masthay.

I think the conservatism that Ted shows in FA is reflective of a very conservative organization from the top-down, and that conservatism might end up costing us another Super Bowl.

[M-C-G]

But when the going gets tough, too much blame is given to McCarthy/Capers and not enough blame is given to the GM. McGinn's characterization of Thompson as a glorified Director of College Scouting hits the nail on the head. Sure, rely on the draft, just don't ignore other opportunities to add to the roster.

Imagine if this team added DeMarcus Ware and had him play opposite of Peppers/Matthews? That would terrify opposing offenses. And he signed a very reasonable deal with Denver.

David Harris was signed to a 3 year, 21 million dollar deal in New York. He would have been a dynamic fit on defense and would have allowed the Packers to move Clay outside. Or, alternatively, a Ware/Harris/Matthews/Peppers starting linebacker core would have been the best in the NFL.

Is there a chance you'll bust with one of these guys? Sure...it is always a risk. I don't want to become the Cowboys and try to outspend everyone. But I'd like this team to make smart, creative moves in free agency/trades to plug up that one major weakness that could hold us back. On offense, it was the tight end position. On defense, it was at linebacker. On ST, it was obviously Masthay.

I think the conservatism that Ted shows in FA is reflective of a very conservative organization from the top-down, and that conservatism might end up costing us another Super Bowl.

I don't really disagree in the grand scheme of things, but people are too quick to ignore the opportunity cost of some of these moves. I mean let's just say we had decided to sign Julius Thomas. Are we still able to extend Daniels, and can we still bring back Neal, Raji, Guiyon, etc. this off season?

I get into this same argument all the time with my buddies, but in general people are too quick to point to the guy "we should have got" with 20/20 hindsight, and completely ignoring that if you bring those guys in, you aren't going to be able to keep all your own guys, like Daniels, like Bulaga, like Cobb.

There is definitely a trade off there that needs to be considered.