ImageImageImageImageImage

Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG?

Moderators: j4remi, HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36

Johnny Hoops
RealGM
Posts: 12,635
And1: 2,212
Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#181 » by Johnny Hoops » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:29 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
King of Canada wrote:
I think he's the highest paid player outside of the NBA isn't he? Don't think he's going anywhere.


The contract was 3 years for a total of $10.2 million (basically an average of $3.4 million per) with Russian team BC Khimki. He was asking the Knicks for a little less than that I believe (something like $2.8 million if I recall...or basically what the Knicks gave Kevin Seraphin). Now of course the Knicks only gave Seraphin a 1 year deal so it could be that Jackson was willing to go 1 year not mult-year, but the per year amounts were basically the same so it wasn't like he was looking for a fortune. Jeremy Lin only got $2.2 million per for just 2 years. For whatever reason it just didn't seem like the Knicks were interested in either guy even though what both guys do best is exactly what the Knicks needed the most offensively from their guards.

For anyone that don't recall Shved, here's Shved's 21 point performance against the Spurs last season. I believe in this game alone Shved drove to the basket more than Calderon has all season. Again, no one is expecting him to repeat this performance but he clearly has the type of skills the Knicks are lacking and has already proven he can produce in Fisher's Triangle system. But boy thank goodness we got that big useless chunk of Beef Bourguignon in Seraphin.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcahJZjRRM8[/youtube]


Image


I miss Bargs too.
User avatar
NoLayupRule
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 48,099
And1: 11,028
Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Location: Playoffs Fool!
Contact:

Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#182 » by NoLayupRule » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:48 pm

NYKnicksTAPE wrote:[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWebruSk0Yo[/youtube]

:nonono:

that Houston defense tho
User avatar
NoLayupRule
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 48,099
And1: 11,028
Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Location: Playoffs Fool!
Contact:

Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#183 » by NoLayupRule » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:56 pm

Triple C wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/twroten_loe/status/691832560826109952[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/twroten_loe/status/691834448678100998[/tweet]

dear lord!

he wants to play here

hes basically free

hes a penetrating PG with NBA experience

he can't be a worse defender than Jose

hes a solid finisher at the basket

just bring his azz in to learn the triangle and see what he can do
finestrg
Junior
Posts: 280
And1: 180
Joined: Nov 03, 2009

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#184 » by finestrg » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:15 pm

Honestly, I'd trade in every guard we have except AA. Afflalo needs shots. Dude is a very good offensive player that just needs to get off early. I personally think we don't go to him enough. Look at the loss to the Clippers the other night -- dude took 5 shots. How do we only get him 5 shots in that game??? Other than AA, our backcourt is the pits. Galloway's OK, serviceable, but he's not nearly as good as they think he is. Doesn't possess true PG skills, not a great offensive player by any stretch, average defensively and he's well undersized for the 2 spot at 6'2". Decent player, a keeper provided we upgrade accordingly, but just an average combo guard at best imo. Then there's Jose and Sasha V--both are well below average. We need more firepower in the backcourt, plain and simple.

Can't understand why this hasn't been addressed. Can't understand why, with an open roster spot all along, we haven't at least tried to address the problem. I mean 10-day contracts began a good 2 weeks ago...There's way too much loyalty being shown to certain players, specifically Calderon, Vujacic and Galloway. Vujacic should've been waived awhile ago. I know there's the prior relationship with Phil/Fisher but they're living in the past with this guy. They could even do it respectfully: waive him and hire him back as a coach. Why not? He gets his money, we open up the roster spot for a talent upgrade and we keep him around as a coach to continue mentoring KP or whatever it is they deem so important with him. WHY can't we do that?!? I wouldn't even go that far -- just waive the guy. Period. Any other GM would've already. Any other GM never would've added him to the roster over Alexey Shved to begin with...Calderon needs to be reduced to 3rd string PG eventually (or traded if possible) with Galloway remaining as a backup (unless we could trade him too).

A few 10-day contract-types I'd love for us to consider:

Elliot Williams - 6'5", very athletic and skilled. Injuries are behind him--he's been healthy for 2 years now. Available again--Memphis didn't renew his contract after the callup. Nothing left to prove in the DL--two monster games since going back to Santa Cruz. When I compare him to Tony Wroten I see a similar albeit far superior talent in every area--much better shooter and an even better playmaker. This guy just needs PT at the NBA level, that's it.

Erick Green - 6'3", not the quickest, not a true PG, but this kid knows how to score the ball. Someone said it early on in this thread or in another one---all these shots that Galloway and Grant are missing or refusing to take, Green would take and make. We need more offensive threats in the backcourt. Gotta put the ball in the hole to win and this kid can do that. Had some good moments with Denver at the pro level so the proof is already in the pudding.

Russ Smith - 6'1", lighting up the DL. I've always liked him. Yeah, he's not a pure PG but I've always thought he was an underrated playmaker. Made great progress his senior yr at Louisville in many areas..He's a shot taker/shot maker first and foremost but he can also make plays for others. Quick and exciting. Not your typical "triangle guard" but so what? They really need to expand their search for talent imo. Phil needs to broaden his outlook on talent--can't simply eliminate the possibility of adding good, exciting talent because they may not be able to "fit" in some dated system. I'd go after sheer, standout talent every time, but that's me... Anyone can learn a system. Plus, we don't run 100% triangle anyway. It seems to be a little of everything out there--Fish even said so at one point. I dunno -- wouldn't it be good to have a few talented freelancers around to balance out the predictability of the triangle a little bit? I think the Garden would LOVE this kid Smith.

Bryce Cotton -- 6'0", very quick, good shooter/good offensive player. Enough PG skills, more than Galloway. He'd give us more speed and up the firepower and excitement. Killed it in the DL over the past 2 years, had a cup of coffee with PHX and I believe he's now in China. I'm sure he's got an out in his contract to get back in the NBA. I would've added this dude as soon as PHX cut him.

Jimmer Fredette or Travis Trice - I like the above 4 guys more but these two could help us. I know unlike Fredette, the gaudy numbers aren't there with Trice but he's very underrated. Kinda reminds me of a poor man's Mike Bibby. Dude can make shots (I thought I saw a graphic the other day on NBA TV saying Trice had the best FG % from mid range in the entire DL among guards) and he's an underrated passer.

Honorable mention - Sean Kilpatrick but I think Denver already called him up.

-----------------------------------

Guards with promise I'd look into trading for:

Joe Young (might be hard--he's starting to play now and I think he's related to Paul George)

Spencer Dinwiddie (a do-it-all combo guard with good skill/size, kind of like Alexey Shved)

Pat Connaughton (would be an upgrade over Sasha V as a pure 2G off the bench)

Isaiah Canaan

I'd like to see Phil be proactive and address the backcourt already. I honestly think that if we can tweak the backcourt even a little bit, it could mean the difference between .500/sub .500 and not making the playoffs and ending up +5 over and making it in.
BowlRips
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,691
And1: 2,934
Joined: Jul 16, 2009
     

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#185 » by BowlRips » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:22 pm

I'd bet anything that George Hill is Knicks starting PG in 2017. Such a Phil type of PG.
Surprised to see him shooting 43% from 3.. is that an anomaly or has he really improved from downtown?
User avatar
ciregno
Junior
Posts: 433
And1: 193
Joined: Jan 18, 2012
       

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#186 » by ciregno » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:23 pm

thekiller99 wrote:Honest question guys!
Lin has player options next season.
What are your thoughts on Lin?


I'd take him though I cannot stand his fan base.
User avatar
Meat
Head Coach
Posts: 7,313
And1: 5,087
Joined: Jun 30, 2013
     

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#187 » by Meat » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:26 pm

ciregno wrote:
thekiller99 wrote:Honest question guys!
Lin has player options next season.
What are your thoughts on Lin?


I'd take him though I cannot stand his fan base.

\\Image
User avatar
Woodsanity
RealGM
Posts: 15,305
And1: 12,362
Joined: Mar 30, 2012
 

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#188 » by Woodsanity » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:32 pm

thekiller99 wrote:Honest question guys!
Lin has player options next season.
What are your thoughts on Lin?

Would be a nice stopgap PG before 2017 or maybe even a 6th man if he is willing to play that role.
All NBA Chokers List

PG: Harden
SG: Demar Derozan
SF: Paul George
PF: Karl Malone
C: Embiid (Harden of Centers)
User avatar
thebuzzardman
RealGM
Posts: 82,102
And1: 96,054
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: Villanovknicks

Re: Lack of Point Guard Play 

Post#189 » by thebuzzardman » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:37 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
Triple C wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/twroten_loe/status/691832560826109952[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/twroten_loe/status/691834448678100998[/tweet]

dear lord!

he wants to play here

hes basically free

hes a penetrating PG with NBA experience

he can't be a worse defender than Jose

hes a solid finisher at the basket

just bring his azz in to learn the triangle and see what he can do


I'm not advocating throwing Grant under the bus just yet; he can still develop. That said, he's done very little so far to keep an NBA team from trying another guy at his position to see what he can do.
Image
blanko
Starter
Posts: 2,438
And1: 1,143
Joined: Mar 14, 2015

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#190 » by blanko » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:37 pm

Apparently Lin has been playing defense this year...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Polk377
General Manager
Posts: 9,518
And1: 5,916
Joined: Apr 19, 2002
Location: Medford, NY
         

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#191 » by Polk377 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:41 pm

blanko wrote:Apparently Lin has been playing defense this year...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Has he learned to go left yet?
User avatar
ciregno
Junior
Posts: 433
And1: 193
Joined: Jan 18, 2012
       

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#192 » by ciregno » Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:54 pm

Meat wrote:
ciregno wrote:
thekiller99 wrote:Honest question guys!
Lin has player options next season.
What are your thoughts on Lin?


I'd take him though I cannot stand his fan base.

\\Image


I'm asian mannnnnnnn! I still remember going to the Knick-Mavs game during Linsanity and holy hell those asian fangirls annoyed the **** outta me. Every Knick game since, and I no longer see any more asian fan girls :lol:
User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,248
And1: 25,705
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#193 » by moocow007 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:03 pm

BowlRips wrote:I'd bet anything that George Hill is Knicks starting PG in 2017. Such a Phil type of PG.
Surprised to see him shooting 43% from 3.. is that an anomaly or has he really improved from downtown?


The problem with that is that Hill also is not known for his ability to create shots. Hill would be fine if we had a Kobe or a MJ type player. But that's neither Anthony nor Porzingis. Anthony is trying his darndest it appears to be that but he's not that. Still wouldn't work optimally. The sad reality is that the Knicks need a guard (at whatever position) that can create easy shots for himself and others. The old/traditional model of a Triangle (where Anthony and Porzingis are the top 2 dogs and you can simply find a 3rd wheel) simply won't work.
User avatar
Meat
Head Coach
Posts: 7,313
And1: 5,087
Joined: Jun 30, 2013
     

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#194 » by Meat » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:07 pm

moocow007 wrote:
BowlRips wrote:I'd bet anything that George Hill is Knicks starting PG in 2017. Such a Phil type of PG.
Surprised to see him shooting 43% from 3.. is that an anomaly or has he really improved from downtown?


The problem with that is that Hill also is not known for his ability to create shots. Hill would be fine if we had a Kobe or a MJ type player. But that's neither Anthony nor Porzingis. Anthony is trying his darndest it appears to be that but he's not that. Still wouldn't work optimally. The sad reality is that the Knicks need a guard (at whatever position) that can create easy shots for himself and others. The old/traditional model of a Triangle (where Anthony and Porzingis are the top 2 dogs and you can simply find a 3rd wheel) simply won't work.

he'd be great if the knicks had batum
User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,248
And1: 25,705
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#195 » by moocow007 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:09 pm

Meat wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
BowlRips wrote:I'd bet anything that George Hill is Knicks starting PG in 2017. Such a Phil type of PG.
Surprised to see him shooting 43% from 3.. is that an anomaly or has he really improved from downtown?


The problem with that is that Hill also is not known for his ability to create shots. Hill would be fine if we had a Kobe or a MJ type player. But that's neither Anthony nor Porzingis. Anthony is trying his darndest it appears to be that but he's not that. Still wouldn't work optimally. The sad reality is that the Knicks need a guard (at whatever position) that can create easy shots for himself and others. The old/traditional model of a Triangle (where Anthony and Porzingis are the top 2 dogs and you can simply find a 3rd wheel) simply won't work.

he'd be great if the knicks had batum


Yeah since the chances of getting a single player that can do that type of shot creation is probably remote, getting multiple upgrades at different positions may be the best way to go.
R-DAWG
RealGM
Posts: 19,967
And1: 6,016
Joined: Nov 07, 2003

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#196 » by R-DAWG » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:17 pm

N8isScofield wrote:Chris Paul will be 32 when he hits free agency and he isn't exactly the picture of health historically. I want no part of that. Signings like that are what have doomed this team. Westbrook or Curry? Please god yes. A CP3 with one foot in the NBA grave? No thanks. Seen that movie before. It sucks.


That's the problem with all these guy/signing free agents in general. Last thing we want to do is have a team full of declining, overpaid vets as KP starts to hit his real prime years. It's why I'm on the trade Melo this summer and rebuild through the draft train, although I don't want to bring up that topic because people are too passionate about the short term.
reub
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,044
And1: 2,309
Joined: Aug 18, 2015
 

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#197 » by reub » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:31 pm

Erick Green just signed with Utah. Cotton signing in China. Toure Murry, Elliott Williams are available. Wroten too. But I think Phil is going with home grown talent or a trade. I think that either Fredette or Trice are better than a starting Jose right now. Jose would be okay playing 15 to 20 minutes off of the bench, defending a nonpenetrating backup guard.
User avatar
ozwizard8
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,009
And1: 1,174
Joined: Nov 21, 2013
 

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#198 » by ozwizard8 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:19 pm

i agree that we dont need a desparation trade for pg but we need to try some of those FA.

we saw ish smith's immediate effect.
believe me or not t.wroten could impact that way.
User avatar
GONYK
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 66,995
And1: 45,764
Joined: Jun 27, 2003
Location: Brunson Gang
   

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#199 » by GONYK » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:21 pm

ozwizard8 wrote:i agree that we dont need a desparation trade for pg but we need to try some of those FA.

we saw ish smith's immediate effect.
believe me or not t.wroten could impact that way.


Ish Smith starts and dominates the ball in a D'Antoni system. Of course he will have an impact.

Whose spot is Wroten going to take in the rotation?

I wouldn't mind picking him up to provide some penetration, but I don't see him overtaking anyone but Grant really
User avatar
ozwizard8
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,009
And1: 1,174
Joined: Nov 21, 2013
 

Re: Can we wait until end of next season to acquire a legit PG? 

Post#200 » by ozwizard8 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:27 pm

GONYK wrote:
ozwizard8 wrote:i agree that we dont need a desparation trade for pg but we need to try some of those FA.

we saw ish smith's immediate effect.
believe me or not t.wroten could impact that way.


Whose spot is Wroten going to take in the rotation?

I wouldn't mind picking him up to provide some penetration, but I don't see him overtaking anyone but Grant really

i hope he can get some minutes from calderon and grant. in that situation vujacic would be out i guess.
unless we took calderon's minutes we cant expect improvement.
calderon really cant defend at all. wroten would be improvement on defensive end. he also drives much more than calderon. we've seen flashes from j.grant but thats not enough.

i think we need to get rid of d.fisher and sign Thibs or another legit coach before making big trades but FA signing are pretty risk-free things. wroten might become a starter for this season or 3rd wheel pg/sg over vujacic. either way i would try it.

Return to New York Knicks