Trade Deadline Countdown....What will we do? What should we do?

[AtheJ415]

What do you guys think it would cost to get Schroder?

I imagine a deal involving Goodwin for sure. Knight and Morris are useless to them I believe.

They are more likely to move Teague and give Schroder the keys to the car because he has more upside. Schroder will have even a higher asking price. Something like Goodwin or Knight(I think they would be intrigued in a replacement for Korver) + future unprotected pick

The problem with any Hawks trade is that they are moving Teague or Schroeder to give time to the other, so they would want a backup PG not a starter. Our problem is that our 2 trade chips in this scenario are 2 premier, clear starting PGs (they are, even if you hate Knight and think he sucks, he's not a backup. His ideal role may be 6th man, but even then he'd get starting minutes). And if we can't trade either of those guys in this same deal, then we're adding YET ANOTHER pg to our mix.

I like Schroeder. I watch the Hawks as much as any team in the league, as much as the Suns, but it's hard to find a trade here that really works unless they'll take one of the Heat picks or overly value some of our vet guys, which I can't see because their 4-5 spots are so much better . Atlanta isn't in win now mode quite like the Cleveland Lebron's are. And even then it's dangerous to trade unprotected picks from aging teams who will likely have a new GM at that time. The only options for this to work imo is if Atlanta sees Knight as a 2 guard (and seriously, I cringe thinking about how much better he'd be with Budenholzer holding him accountable and limiting his shots). Other than that, it would have to be a 3 way imo, with us taking back somebody like a Lawson who is expiring and we'd probably have to execute an entirely separate trade to dump a PG in that scenario.

Also, keep in mind, McD will be more hesitant to give up Archie than most because he drafted him and waited out his unproductive years, only to then move him right as he seems to be turning the corner. That might be tough for him to do.

[AtheJ415]

Adrian Wojnarowski said on The Vertical Podcast that the Atlanta Hawks could "push the reset button" and All-Stars like Jeff Teague and Al Horford could be available closer to the trade deadline. With the Boston Celtics reportedly looking to make moves consolidating assets for an impact player, Horford seems like a player they could pursue.

"Danny Ainge is out on the hunt for a star, and trying to figure out what that means -- what a star is. One team that I think is really at a crossroads talking to teams is the Atlanta Hawks," Wojnarowski said, adding that the Hawks have tried to gauge the value of Teague. "Al Horford is a free agent this summer. They're not sure he's going to stay, whether they're going to keep him. There's a chance this Atlanta team pushes the reset button here at some point."

http://www.celticsblog.com/2016/1/27/10843912/Adrian-Wojnarowski-atlanta-hawks-boston-celtics-al-horford-vertical-podcast-nba-rumor

McD needs to try grabbing Horford and/or Teague/Schroeder. I think we would settle for just Horford. Maybe work a trade with Boston for that Brooklyn pick?

Why Teague? Seriously, everyone claims our PGs are too selfish. Teague is every bit as selfish. He was concerned with the Budenholzer hiring because he recognized his one on one game was not a good fit for that offense. Budenholzer, being a great coach, has made it work, but Teague is no better a passer and no less selfish than many of the PGs we've had the past 3 years that everyone on this board has run off as losers who don't play winning basketball and are destined to suck.

Horford is too old for this team imo, although I like him as a player. Schroeder is the only target that makes real sense for Phoenix imo.

[AtheJ415]

What do you guys think it would cost to get Schroder?

I imagine a deal involving Goodwin for sure.

Am I ridiculous for thinking, "Pass"?

I haven't seen enough of Schroeder to know. If they think he is worth keeping over Teague maybe, but we'd also have to get rid of other guards because we have too many, so unless all of that happens, and as well as Goodwin has played the last couple of games, he's worth watching.

I don't think he will ever be a high iq player, and as jc mentioned, he may revert to old bad habits like Gerald Green, so I'd rather let it play out and see.

Schroeder is a great passer, who is a decent athlete with elite speed/quickness although rail thin. He plays with a lot of energy. His shot and all around offensive game is still developing. If Jeff can fix his jumper that would go a long way, but as of now that's still his biggest weakness, and the biggest question mark to his future ceiling.

[AtheJ415]

What do you guys think it would cost to get Schroder?

I imagine a deal involving Goodwin for sure. Knight and Morris are useless to them I believe.

Many Hawks fans hate him. Pass.

Yeah, but their fans are like our fans, or any fans, which by definition means they aren't rational (I say that including myself). If they aren't Steph Curry or the 2nd coming of Steve Nash then they are bums who deserve to be punished for making you watch them play. Schroder acts like a moron at times, and what's most frustrating to me is he passes up open shots constantly in order to continue passing. Some of that might just be that he's a bad shooter who has no confidence in his jumper though. He's only 22, and is a very good passer and one of the fast players in the league with the ball imo. He'd be a good fit here, but he needs his jumper to improve.

[Ryu]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ChrisMannixYS/status/692357162883010560[/tweet]

I would trade Brandon Knight for Schroder and a filler in a second. The German is gonna be a very good starting point guard.

[saintEscaton]

Adrian Wojnarowski said on The Vertical Podcast that the Atlanta Hawks could "push the reset button" and All-Stars like Jeff Teague and Al Horford could be available closer to the trade deadline. With the Boston Celtics reportedly looking to make moves consolidating assets for an impact player, Horford seems like a player they could pursue.

"Danny Ainge is out on the hunt for a star, and trying to figure out what that means -- what a star is. One team that I think is really at a crossroads talking to teams is the Atlanta Hawks," Wojnarowski said, adding that the Hawks have tried to gauge the value of Teague. "Al Horford is a free agent this summer. They're not sure he's going to stay, whether they're going to keep him. There's a chance this Atlanta team pushes the reset button here at some point."

http://www.celticsblog.com/2016/1/27/10843912/Adrian-Wojnarowski-atlanta-hawks-boston-celtics-al-horford-vertical-podcast-nba-rumor

McD needs to try grabbing Horford and/or Teague/Schroeder. I think we would settle for just Horford. Maybe work a trade with Boston for that Brooklyn pick?

I love Horford but it would most likely be a half season rental and we would have to mortgage the future/give a part of core.. He's an unrestricted FA and I can't seee him re-signing with a uncompetive team in a tougher conference.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, but their fans are like our fans, or any fans, which by definition means they aren't rational (I say that including myself).

So true. That sums up all of us at times.

fa·nat·ic

noun
1.
a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.
synonyms: zealot, extremist, militant, dogmatist, devotee, adherent; More
adjective
1.
filled with or expressing excessive zeal.
"his fanatic energy"

[bwgood77]

http://www.celticsblog.com/2016/1/27/10843912/Adrian-Wojnarowski-atlanta-hawks-boston-celtics-al-horford-vertical-podcast-nba-rumor

McD needs to try grabbing Horford and/or Teague/Schroeder. I think we would settle for just Horford. Maybe work a trade with Boston for that Brooklyn pick?

I love Horford but it would most likely be a half season rental and we would have to mortgage the future/give a part of core.. He's an unrestricted FA and I can't seee him re-signing with a uncompetive team in a tougher conference.

Yeah, I was thinking it would probably take Len. And unless they find a take for Teague (but there are rumors there are suitors such as Milwaukee possibly), then MAYBE Knight, but doubtful.

I don't think they'd want Chandler, though he would be good next to Millsap, and give them more fight this year. But again, as you mentioned, a HUGE risk he leaves in the offseason so I don't think I'd risk losing Len for potentially nothing.

[NavLDO]

Here is a tweaked trade...
Suns get-
Love/Mozgov/Varejao

Cavs get-
Knight/Kieff/Chandler/Leuer + Cavs pick

I think the Cavs would prefer Leuer over Tucker. Plus keeping Leuer with Love is kind of redundant.

Hands down the trade that makes the most sense for both teams.

That's pretty good. But to me - from Clevelands perspective - it can be as simple as Knight/Kieff for Love

See, if Cleveland wants to win now, I don't know how much Knight helps them. They have Kyrie and Smith to jack from distance, and Dellavadova has played well for them. What they need is help on the defensive end and, if they're losing Love, a big that can shoot. In terms of need, if I'm Cleveland, a Tucker/Telly/Keef package makes the most sense. Since that's not enough value for Love, I'd think they'd get a pick or two as well. It's not like Love as played well for a season and a half, and even before that, he was injury prone. Plus he's on a max contract. So maybe his value's not exactly astronomical.

In any case, I don't actually want Love on this team. Of course, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if McD does. I doubt we'd send him to a third team - McD wants a star. Love was a star once, and very well could be again.

Look. We all know Love doesn't play D, but he leads all PFs in TRB, is 2nd in 3PT Attempts at almost 36% (not great, but better than Kieff's 30%), and is 7th in Pts scored, 6th in FT% while being 7th in getting to the line. My point? Love is still producing at a high clip for PFs, and certainly more than Kieff, and it's not as if Kieff is playing great D either.

If we provide your trade of Teletovic, Tucker, and Kieff, then you are exactly right, we'd have to provide a pick or two back. Maybe their 2016 back, and our 2016 2nd (which will likely only be 5-8 slots behind their 1st). This deal makes much more sense, and I agree, Knight isn't going to provide them anything. Plus, why would they want to take on $14M for 4 more years?

This has been my point. jcsunsfan seems to think that $14M won't be considered a bad contract, but sorry, RIGHT NOW, he is not playing at a $14M per level...more like an $8-10M per at best. I'm not buying that Knight will be viewed as a positive. It's all "IF's" with Kieff, Knight, and Chandler...IF Kieff returns to form and stops being an idiot...IF Knight returns to playing like he did with the Bucks (he only played a handful of decent games this season; a GM is NOT going to base his value on those few games, they will base it on overall RECENT output/efficiency)...and IF Chandler can hold up beyond this season (Chandler's regressed a lot this season overall from where he was last year, AND he's 33...why would he get better? Or be consistent? or even hold up for another 4 years, worthy of $13M per).

Some may feel Cleveland will eat $35M per for the next 4 years for middling talents, while trading away a still productive and top PF in this league (offensively, at least). I'm not seeing it. GMs are not only interested in THIS season, they are interested in future seasons as well, and sucking up $35M per for the next 4 years, how will they be able to build support for LeBron if all their money tied up in Bron...and 3 NON-All-Stars. If they want to win now, WHY in the god's green earth would they trade away a borderline All-Star. They will likely trade away Varajao, Mozgov, etc. and try to bring in another All-Star, not trading away middling talents to bring in more middling talents; that does nothing for them. They will want to trade away picks, bench players, etc. to GET back ONE impact player, and sorry, but Knight, Kieff, nor Chandler are impact players...MAYBE Chandler, but again, they will not want his $13M contract through his age 37 season.

My last point on this...put this trade(Knight, Kieff, Tucker, Chandler for Love, Varajao, and Mozgov) on the Trade Forum, and see how receptive Cav fans would be. Don't bother, I already know the answer. They will want to pkg several players to get back ONE impact player.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

How about no more trades for point guards, huh?!? How about that?? Sheez... at least Knight can play the 2 (kind of)!

[MrMiyagi]

How about no more trades for point guards, huh?!? How about that?? Sheez... at least Knight can play the 2 (kind of)!

What, you don't want to run a 5 point guard system? Trade for both Teague and Schroder, add them to the lineup with Bled and Knight, draft Kris Dunn and go go go!!!!!

[BobbieL]

That's pretty good. But to me - from Clevelands perspective - it can be as simple as Knight/Kieff for Love

See, if Cleveland wants to win now, I don't know how much Knight helps them. They have Kyrie and Smith to jack from distance, and Dellavadova has played well for them. What they need is help on the defensive end and, if they're losing Love, a big that can shoot. In terms of need, if I'm Cleveland, a Tucker/Telly/Keef package makes the most sense. Since that's not enough value for Love, I'd think they'd get a pick or two as well. It's not like Love as played well for a season and a half, and even before that, he was injury prone. Plus he's on a max contract. So maybe his value's not exactly astronomical.

In any case, I don't actually want Love on this team. Of course, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if McD does. I doubt we'd send him to a third team - McD wants a star. Love was a star once, and very well could be again.

Look. We all know Love doesn't play D, but he leads all PFs in TRB, is 2nd in 3PT Attempts at almost 36% (not great, but better than Kieff's 30%), and is 7th in Pts scored, 6th in FT% while being 7th in getting to the line. My point? Love is still producing at a high clip for PFs, and certainly more than Kieff, and it's not as if Kieff is playing great D either.

If we provide your trade of Teletovic, Tucker, and Kieff, then you are exactly right, we'd have to provide a pick or two back. Maybe their 2016 back, and our 2016 2nd (which will likely only be 5-8 slots behind their 1st). This deal makes much more sense, and I agree, Knight isn't going to provide them anything. Plus, why would they want to take on $14M for 4 more years?

This has been my point. jcsunsfan seems to think that $14M won't be considered a bad contract, but sorry, RIGHT NOW, he is not playing at a $14M per level...more like an $8-10M per at best. I'm not buying that Knight will be viewed as a positive. It's all "IF's" with Kieff, Knight, and Chandler...IF Kieff returns to form and stops being an idiot...IF Knight returns to playing like he did with the Bucks (he only played a handful of decent games this season; a GM is NOT going to base his value on those few games, they will base it on overall RECENT output/efficiency)...and IF Chandler can hold up beyond this season (Chandler's regressed a lot this season overall from where he was last year, AND he's 33...why would he get better? Or be consistent? or even hold up for another 4 years, worthy of $13M per).

Some may feel Cleveland will eat $35M per for the next 4 years for middling talents, while trading away a still productive and top PF in this league (offensively, at least). I'm not seeing it. GMs are not only interested in THIS season, they are interested in future seasons as well, and sucking up $35M per for the next 4 years, how will they be able to build support for LeBron if all their money tied up in Bron...and 3 NON-All-Stars. If they want to win now, WHY in the god's green earth would they trade away a borderline All-Star. They will likely trade away Varajao, Mozgov, etc. and try to bring in another All-Star, not trading away middling talents to bring in more middling talents; that does nothing for them. They will want to trade away picks, bench players, etc. to GET back ONE impact player, and sorry, but Knight, Kieff, nor Chandler are impact players...MAYBE Chandler, but again, they will not want his $13M contract through his age 37 season.

My last point on this...put this trade(Knight, Kieff, Tucker, Chandler for Love, Varajao, and Mozgov) on the Trade Forum, and see how receptive Cav fans would be. Don't bother, I already know the answer. They will want to pkg several players to get back ONE impact player.

Cavs and the city of Cleveland haven't won very much lately. I think since 1954.

The Cavs have been beaten by the Warriors and Spurs pretty badly

Its pretty easy to explain why Love for Knight/Kieff makes some sense for the Cavs

Love is not being use properly

The Cavs have a lot of BIGS costing a lot of Dan Gilberts money that do not match up against against GSW and the Spurs

Maybe the Cavs don't need Knight but Kieff would fit very well. Just making the cap and names work

One thing about Knight - counting on Iman Shumpert and JR Smith as your two guards to score is risky. Knight probably would be less risky.

[gaspar]

People hate Knight because he's inefficient, he shoots too much and turns the ball over too much. Apparently the answer for our problems is trading for Schroder...

eFG%:
Knight .484
Schroder .471

FGA per 100 possessions:
Knight 23.3
Schroder 22.8

Turnovers per 100 possessions:
Knight 4.6
Schroder 4.9

[King4Day]

If we plan on staying competitive, I'd like to go after Rondo simply because he can pass.
It's amazing that there aren't more talented players with pass-first ability.
Nash, Rondo, Rubio are the last of the elite passers I can think of.

[bwgood77]

If we plan on staying competitive, I'd like to go after Rondo simply because he can pass.
It's amazing that there aren't more talented players with pass-first ability.
Nash, Rondo, Rubio are the last of the elite passers I can think of.

Wall, Westbrook and Paul are 2/3/4 in apg this year. Westbrook obviously isn't necessarily a pass first guy, but he's significantly improved there, and anyone averaging just under 10 apg is a good passer.

Also interesting to see Westbrook as better assist to turnover ratio than Rondo, Rubio and Paul, and many others.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/avgAssists/year/2016/seasontype/2

[jredsaz]

A couple different options.

PHX gets: Lee, Mickey, 2018 1st (MEM via BOS)

CLE gets: Tucker, Morris, Bradley, 2016 1st (DAL via BOS)

BOS gets: Love

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hynlnbl

OR

PHX gets: Lee, Mickey, Varejo, 2018 1st (MEM via BOS), 2016 1st (DAL via BOS)

CLE gets: Tucker, Bradley, Teletovic, Chandler

BOS gets: Love, Mozgov

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zwvgceq

Both trades accomplish stated goals of each team:

Suns gain youth, assets and get out from underneath bad contracts.

Cleveland adds multiple, high end, versatile defenders that are able to better deal with GSW, SAS, and OKC.

BOS finally lands a star and gets to keep Crowder, Thomas, and Smart.

[thamadkant]

Suns won't be beating Warriors or Spurs even with Kevin Love.


Suns should copy Bucks.... in regards to matching up well with Warriors. They really do matchup well and gives Warriors a hard time.
Why?....

LONG, versatile, athletic wing men.

Carter-Williams 6'7
Middleton 6'8
Antetokounmpou 6'11
Parker 6'9
Henson 6'11
Monroe 6'11

They force Warriors to change their shot release due to the length and athleticism.
They force Curry to take an extra half second to get a shot up due to the same attributes.

Thats the type of lineup who can compete with Warriors.

[letsgosuns]

Kevin Love has not proven himself to be an mvp caliber player capable of leading a team to a championship. He has not even played well with Lebron James, which is very surprising considering James is one of the most unselfish superstars ever. Therefore I am not that interested in going after Love with major assets. Obviously I would be all for getting Love in a Knight/Markieff/Cleveland pick swap, but outside of that, I do not want to sacrifice any of Len, Booker, Warren, or Goodwin for him. And it is not because I think all four of those guys will one day be all stars. It is because they are young, unproven players on rookie deals with potential to be all stars. That is exactly what a rebuilding team needs.

Love is making huge money and is not playing up to his contract. He also struggles to keep up with the more athletic power forwards of the league. I am much more excited about who the Suns can get in the draft rather than potentially acquiring Love.

[AtheJ415]

People hate Knight because he's inefficient, he shoots too much and turns the ball over too much. Apparently the answer for our problems is trading for Schroder...

eFG%:
Knight .484
Schroder .471

FGA per 100 possessions:
Knight 23.3
Schroder 22.8

Turnovers per 100 possessions:
Knight 4.6
Schroder 4.9

It's actually pretty amazing how Knight's numbers stack up with some of the PGs people on here long for. But I'd be okay with it mostly because Schroder is 22 and does pass it more, so may be a better fit as a 1 in our system, but really he'd be a future replacement for Bledsoe, not Knight. Schroder cannot play the 2 at all.

[jcsunsfan]

People hate Knight because he's inefficient, he shoots too much and turns the ball over too much. Apparently the answer for our problems is trading for Schroder...

eFG%:
Knight .484
Schroder .471

FGA per 100 possessions:
Knight 23.3
Schroder 22.8

Turnovers per 100 possessions:
Knight 4.6
Schroder 4.9

It's actually pretty amazing how Knight's numbers stack up with some of the PGs people on here long for. But I'd be okay with it mostly because Schroder is 22 and does pass it more, so may be a better fit as a 1 in our system, but really he'd be a future replacement for Bledsoe, not Knight. Schroder cannot play the 2 at all.

Knight has alot of areas to improve, but he and Horny are being WAY overcriticized IMO. I especially don't want to trade him for someone like Schroder. Now, maybe we think Booker is the answer. Well, then, trade him for a pick or a big or something.