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The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread

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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#181 » by Fairview4Life » Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:29 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:Verlander was on a bit of an uptick this season, but the point remains, these FA contracts make no rational sense. Anyone note that we beat the team who signed Yu Darvish. While we all wanted Prince at the time, it was partly because we felt he might be available at a discount because the Yankees and Sox weren't on the market. When the price tag became known, I don't think anyone here would have expected the Jays to pay it. And how sentimental were the Cards about Pujols?

The vast chasm in AAV between good young prospects - like Stroman - and the proven guys - like the guy he beat out for #1 starter on the playoff Jays - is mindblowing. Is there anything comparable in professional sports?

AA's plan was originally to invest in the draft, groom the young prospects and - as Beeston said back in 2010 or so - to be contending year after year by around now. What screwed up the timeline was the emergence of Jose and EE as a Manny and Big Papi-esque dynamic duo. AA felt compelled to build the team around them. He wasn't wrong, but the economics of relying on quality FAs - especially FA pitching - seems to have dramatically changed. If I was a "Real GM", I would adopt the Rays model of holding onto my prospects, and trading players a year or two before they reached free agency. Of course, it helped that they were basically the Sixers of baseball for several seasons.


Dude, didn't I sign your 'Sign Fielder' petition 2-3 years ago or whenever?
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#182 » by JaysRule25 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:39 pm

Anyone know if MLB will be giving us equalization payments with the Canadian dollar being down? I know Beeston turned those payments down. But I don't think Shapiro will refuse them as well.
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Re: RE: Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#183 » by northernpuppy » Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Centre Court wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
Lateral Quicks wrote:As a fan I'd prefer the games were played on grass, but the bigger concern is playing surface impact on player health. The new turf seems to be much better in that regard, though it means we now see a rubber pellet explosion with each footfall or bounce of the ball. If that improvement hadn't been made, there would be a lot more urgency around improving the playing surface.

I wonder if they're going to look at the cost to demolish the Dome. New stadiums have gone up in the past decade for as low as ~$350-400M. If you could tear down the Dome for $200M, that option would get intriguing. Of course that would leave them without a facility for at least one season, and probably two, so that's likely a non-starter.

New stadium would have to be in a new location (probably suburbs), which would suck. I'd much rather put up with an ugly stadium in a prime location than a nice stadium in the middle of nowhere.


A new ballpark would have to built in the downtown core. Needs to be near transit and accessible to all residents. Plus downtown Toronto and its condo population provides a nearby base of fans.

Only the NFL can succeed with stadiums in the suburbs. Virtually every new MLB park has been built downtown or near downtown.

That said, Rogers Centre is going to home to the Jays for at least a decade or more before a new ballpark is even considered.


You want a location for a new stadium? ONTARIO PLACE. You can build it how you want it, it's by the lake, and you can definitely create the irrigation needed for real grass. Building a new stadium in Toronto is politically toxic on multiple fronts, but if Rogers wanted to blow $1 billion on a stadium (which I hope they wouldn't as a shareholder), that's the place to do it. If you build it, they will come (see BMO field).
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#184 » by tempests_dawn » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:49 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:
tecumseh18 wrote:Verlander was on a bit of an uptick this season, but the point remains, these FA contracts make no rational sense. Anyone note that we beat the team who signed Yu Darvish. While we all wanted Prince at the time, it was partly because we felt he might be available at a discount because the Yankees and Sox weren't on the market. When the price tag became known, I don't think anyone here would have expected the Jays to pay it. And how sentimental were the Cards about Pujols?

The vast chasm in AAV between good young prospects - like Stroman - and the proven guys - like the guy he beat out for #1 starter on the playoff Jays - is mindblowing. Is there anything comparable in professional sports?

AA's plan was originally to invest in the draft, groom the young prospects and - as Beeston said back in 2010 or so - to be contending year after year by around now. What screwed up the timeline was the emergence of Jose and EE as a Manny and Big Papi-esque dynamic duo. AA felt compelled to build the team around them. He wasn't wrong, but the economics of relying on quality FAs - especially FA pitching - seems to have dramatically changed. If I was a "Real GM", I would adopt the Rays model of holding onto my prospects, and trading players a year or two before they reached free agency. Of course, it helped that they were basically the Sixers of baseball for several seasons.


Dude, didn't I sign your 'Sign Fielder' petition 2-3 years ago or whenever?


That was my petition :lol:
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#185 » by polo007 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:48 pm

In a wide-ranging interview with the Toronto Star, Jays president and CEO Mark Shapiro says he is focusing on the work at hand rather than the public’s perception of him.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/2016/01/15/blue-jays-president-mark-shapiro-says-hes-no-darth-vader.html

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“That everything I do is a reflection of who I am, so I’m not going to cheat the process. I’m going to give a full effort. I’m going to go to bed feeling good about the effort I’m giving — always.”

A creature of habit, Shapiro wakes every day before dawn, sometime between 4:30 and 5 a.m. “Five at the latest,” he says.

He’ll have a coffee and read some email before working out. Then he’ll eat breakfast in his Theatre District apartment and walk “the same three-block route, stopping at the same Starbucks” en route to his office at the Rogers Centre.


Full plate

Shapiro arrives at a pivotal time for the Jays’ franchise, which marks its 40th anniversary this season. The Rogers Centre is in need of costly upgrades and set to undergo an expensive renovation; the organization’s spring-training lease in Dunedin is up after next year; and while the team is a legitimate playoff contender that fell two wins short of a World Series berth, its stock of minor-league prospects was depleted by last year’s trade-deadline frenzy.

Meanwhile, franchise cornerstones Jose Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion are set to become free agents after this year.

Given all that needs to be done, he says he isn’t dwelling on the public’s perception of him. “In these jobs, if you cannot handle criticism, fair or unfair, you’re going to have a fragile existence.”

But if he could impart one message to a skeptical fan-base, he said it would be that he’s here to win.

“I’m someone that cares deeply about winning and is going to wake up thinking about how to make the Jays better, is going to go to bed thinking about how to make the Jays better, is going to be consumed with only two things in life: my family and this organization, and that’s it. I don’t have a hobby; I don’t ski, I don’t play cards, I don’t play golf — nothing. It’s work and family for me.

“I’m a pretty boring guy, but if you love the team and you want someone that is working for the team that cares deeply and is going to work tirelessly, that’s who I am.”
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#186 » by Santoki » Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:07 am

They definitely found the anti-AA. He would swing 2am deals and gained probably 40lbs over his tenure. This guy is up at 430am, works out and is at the office before I'm even awake.
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#187 » by C Court » Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:47 am

Santoki wrote:They definitely found the anti-AA. He would swing 2am deals and gained probably 40lbs over his tenure. This guy is up at 430am, works out and is at the office before I'm even awake.


Even though the media and many fans painted Shapiro as a villain, most reports out of Cleveland and MLB in general said he is a very bright, likeable, high integrity guy.

Today on PTS, even McCown had to admit that he was impressed with Shapiro when they met for the first time earlier this week. Bobcat described him as very friendly, a good listener an quite forthcoming with his answers.
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#188 » by hsb » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:14 pm

"Media painting one guy a villain" -> reads a fluff piece from the media lol.
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Re: RE: Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#189 » by almatic » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:39 pm

northernpuppy wrote:
Centre Court wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:New stadium would have to be in a new location (probably suburbs), which would suck. I'd much rather put up with an ugly stadium in a prime location than a nice stadium in the middle of nowhere.


A new ballpark would have to built in the downtown core. Needs to be near transit and accessible to all residents. Plus downtown Toronto and its condo population provides a nearby base of fans.

Only the NFL can succeed with stadiums in the suburbs. Virtually every new MLB park has been built downtown or near downtown.

That said, Rogers Centre is going to home to the Jays for at least a decade or more before a new ballpark is even considered.


You want a location for a new stadium? ONTARIO PLACE. You can build it how you want it, it's by the lake, and you can definitely create the irrigation needed for real grass. Building a new stadium in Toronto is politically toxic on multiple fronts, but if Rogers wanted to blow $1 billion on a stadium (which I hope they wouldn't as a shareholder), that's the place to do it. If you build it, they will come (see BMO field).


I don't think Ontario Place would work. It's just south of Exhibition Place & BMO Field (where the Blue Jays first home stadium was, Exhibition Stadium)
That place had many problems being right beside the Lake including major wind & cold during the beginning & end of seasons, and then there was the whole seagull feeding ground problem.
It's popularly dubbed "The Mistake by the Lake" for a reason... I don't think anyone wants to repeat that mistake lol
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#190 » by metafisical » Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:11 am

The biggest problem with Ontario Place is the land is sinking into the lake. Reinforcing the land will significantly add to costs.
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#191 » by whysoserious » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:35 pm

Centre Court wrote:
Santoki wrote:They definitely found the anti-AA. He would swing 2am deals and gained probably 40lbs over his tenure. This guy is up at 430am, works out and is at the office before I'm even awake.


Even though the media and many fans painted Shapiro as a villain, most reports out of Cleveland and MLB in general said he is a very bright, likeable, high integrity guy.

Today on PTS, even McCown had to admit that he was impressed with Shapiro when they met for the first time earlier this week. Bobcat described him as very friendly, a good listener an quite forthcoming with his answers.


Bobcat's entire initial rant was about supporting his friend Beeston and to a lesser extent Anthopoulos. And let's be honest, he still has a huge reach and audience so it's understandable why that sentiment was out there.

I think he was right on his take in terms of Rogers but it felt very much like he was lashing out at Shapiro to support his friend.
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#192 » by kirkwood » Fri Feb 5, 2016 11:13 pm

Jays have lost their best pitcher and best lead off guy, both among the tops in Major League Baseball. In return they signed a bunch of no name pitchers and no one to replace revere. I am calling it now, the jays will not make the playoffs this year


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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#193 » by Xaos » Sat Feb 6, 2016 12:05 pm

I can't believe the Donaldson arbitration case hasn't been settled yet! What are these guys doing??
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#194 » by Al_Oliver » Sat Feb 6, 2016 12:29 pm

Xaos wrote:I can't believe the Donaldson arbitration case hasn't been settled yet! What are these guys doing??


trying to negotiate a long-term deal? or at least a multiple year one, which is what it sounds like is happening
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#195 » by Randle McMurphy » Sat Feb 6, 2016 7:11 pm

Xaos wrote:I can't believe the Donaldson arbitration case hasn't been settled yet! What are these guys doing??


Fire Shapiro. He should have scheduled this hearing months ago.
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#196 » by Santoki » Sat Feb 6, 2016 11:40 pm

Randle McMurphy wrote:
Xaos wrote:I can't believe the Donaldson arbitration case hasn't been settled yet! What are these guys doing??


Fire Shapiro. He should have scheduled this hearing months ago.


Lol, but ya they don't control when the hearing takes place. To be fair he could have meant why haven't they just agreed to his number without arbitration and that can either come down to the fact they have made it a rule that once they file they won't negotiate anymore and/or they're working on a long term extension instead.

I think people need to chill out and let this all play out. Shapiro and co don't seem like the types to just sit back and do nothing. I'm sure they have a plan and are working their tails off. You may not be a fan of their plan though. That's another topic.
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#197 » by polo007 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:10 am

Ever wonder why Rogers Communications Inc. is a bit thrifty when it comes to the Toronto Blue Jays but doesn’t scrimp on the Toronto Maple Leafs, Toronto Raptors and Toronto FC, the teams it owns with rival telecom BCE Inc.?

The reason, according to business experts familiar with the finances of both companies, is a quirky accounting rule.

Rogers has taken much heat from fans for refusing to jack up the Blue Jays’ player payroll in order to sign top free agents such as David Price. But the experts say the accounting rule means the profit or loss of any majority-owned asset such as the Blue Jays has to be included in Rogers’ earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization (EBITDA), which can directly affect the company’s share price.

The same rule also works to the advantage of Rogers and BCE, joint owners of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, to spend freely on that company’s hockey, basketball and soccer teams.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/no-love-for-blue-jays-in-rogerss-sports-spending-blame-an-accounting-rule/article28709405/

Ever wonder why Rogers Communications Inc. is a bit thrifty when it comes to the Toronto Blue Jays but doesn’t scrimp on the Toronto Maple Leafs, Toronto Raptors and Toronto FC, the teams it owns with rival telecom BCE Inc.?

The reason, according to business experts familiar with the finances of both companies, is a quirky accounting rule.

Rogers has taken much heat from fans for refusing to jack up the Blue Jays’ player payroll in order to sign top free agents such as David Price. But the experts say the accounting rule means the profit or loss of any majority-owned asset such as the Blue Jays has to be included in Rogers’ earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization (EBITDA), which can directly affect the company’s share price.

The same rule also works to the advantage of Rogers and BCE, joint owners of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, to spend freely on that company’s hockey, basketball and soccer teams.

Under this rule, known as the equity accounting method, publicly traded companies can combine the profits or losses of any subsidiary companies in which they own less than a 51-per-cent interest and keep those results separate from their annual EBITDA. Results from subsidiaries are grouped together and are recorded as “other income,” which does not count toward a company’s EBITDA.

But wholly owned subsidiary companies such as the Blue Jays are subject to strict internal budgets within Rogers Media, the division that operates the team along with the company’s broadcast properties. According to a source familiar with the finances of both Rogers and BCE, if Rogers were to sign Price for $30-million a season, then that $30-million would have to come from the budgets of other Rogers Media companies.

It also does not help that market analysts point out how any increase in the Blue Jays’ payroll drives up Rogers Media’s quarterly expenses.
There are no such remarks about the Leafs, Raptors and TFC, because their expenses do not affect their companies’ EBITDA.

The flip side of the equity accounting rule, however, means ownership by public companies can be a good thing for teams such as the Leafs, Raptors and Toronto FC fans. The financial results from those teams do not appear on the EBITDA of BCE and Rogers, which each own 37.5 per cent of MLSE.
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#198 » by youreachiteach » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:42 pm

So basically, they just need someone else to buy up 51% so they can hide the profits better and not have it affect their share price as an expense?

Come one everyone, let's ante up!!
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#199 » by Lateral Quicks » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:24 pm

Shapiro seems like a pretty stand-up guy. The ugly situation with AA was Rogers' fault, not Shapiro's. And I can't fault Shapiro for being pissed that AA ravaged the farm right before Shapiro came onboard, making his job much more difficult.

Shapiro is trying to win this year despite Rogers holding firm on the budget, as he should. So that's a good sign. I'm not fond of the Happ signing or bringing all the Cleveland guys along with him, but we'll see how it turns out.
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Re: The Shapiro & Rogers Megathread 

Post#200 » by satyr9 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:08 pm

Well, with arbitration complete and basically two weeks to camp, Jays sit at 137m payroll, almost on the nose, 8th in the AL in payroll and 4th in the East. Just a pathetic commitment from Rogers this year after seeing the fans show up for a winner.

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