Official Trade Thread - Part XXX

[Dark Faze]

I want Pau Gasol. I just can't think of anything else that would be close to as good as an alternative to Durant when you look at the market.

What might it take to get him?

[nate33]

I want Pau Gasol. I just can't think of anything else that would be close to as good as an alternative to Durant when you look at the market.

What might it take to get him?

Pau Gasol will be 36 next year, with about 41,000 career minutes under his belt. I agree that he has had a remarkable season this year, but he's about ready to fall off a cliff. It happens with everybody not named Tim Duncan or Karl Malone.

We need to building a roster to play with Wall and Porter for the next 5 years, not finding band-aids and stop-gaps to get through one season at a time.

[nate33]

Were going on a run we're not out of playoff contention...
I honestly would move any player not over 25 for a young quality big...(yes keep beal) he can help luring kd, he shows he steps up in the playoffs...and they're aren't many other young teams that are playoff tested... (knicks,wiz,thunder,peclians?,blazers?,rockets?)

I wouldn't trade anybody under 25 under any circumstances (unless it was Beal being traded for another young player). I agree that we're not out of playoff contention yet. If we do make any "blow it up" type of trades, I think we'll wait until the Trade Deadline, assuming we're still 2 or 3 games outside of the 8th seed. If it happens, I expect Dudley to get traded, plus maybe Nene, Hump, Sessions or Temple.

[Dark Faze]

I want Pau Gasol. I just can't think of anything else that would be close to as good as an alternative to Durant when you look at the market.

What might it take to get him?

Pau Gasol will be 36 next year, with about 41,000 career minutes under his belt. I agree that he has had a remarkable season this year, but he's about ready to fall off a cliff. It happens with everybody not named Tim Duncan or Karl Malone.

We need to building a roster to play with Wall and Porter for the next 5 years, not finding band-aids and stop-gaps to get through one season at a time.

Thing is--I'd prefer to ride the wheels off a guy year to year and compete in the playoffs and then let him go the moment a good free agent is available

To me, that's preferable to locking up our core with no way out for the next 5 years

[Ruzious]

Toronto Raptors Trade Rumors: Team Aquiring Wizards' Nene And Gortat For Jonas Valanciunas?


http://www.youthhealthmag.com/articles/35112/20160128/toronto-raptors-trade-rumors.htm

That sounds like an amateurish article written by a fan who had no real information.

[queridiculo]

I don't see Gortat declining in the next 3 years of his contract. He takes too good care of himself. Indeed, I suspect he'll play more minutes than Valanciunas over the next 3 years. He has played way more in each of the past 3 seasons.

So with health not really an issue, the only age-related advantage of Valanciunas is the assumption that he'll improve going forward. I suppose that's possible, but I don't think guys with 6000 minutes already under their belt really improve all that much. The problem with JV is that he's not a good rim protector, and he's mostly only a post-up guy on offense. He's a bad fit with Wall because post-up guys need PG's who can shoot well to help provide spacing. Wall, being a poor shooter, is much better off running the high pick and roll. Gortat is a MUCH better pick and roll player.

Gortat takes good care of himself, but father time doesn't wait for anyone. His effective is largely based on a combination of athleticism and touch, and while one is likely going to be there for the duration of his career, it's only a matter of time before his body starts breaking down.

Granted, he didn't play heavy minutes early in his career, but the amount of minutes he's played with this team alone is going to catch up with him soon.

There's a good chance that the Wizards are going to strike out in free agency and if that happens, I'd rather not have to worry about how we're going to address the center position two years from now while the team scrambles to get back to relevance.

Even if Valanciunas turns out to be a poor fit at worst he turns out to be an asset of questionable value, but an asset nonetheless, while Gortat will simply be an expiring contract.

[Dark Faze]

The rights to Satoransky + filler might be worth it to Chicago, or other teams for that matter.

Seems like Sato has an opinion of himself where he wants a fair shot at starting when he goes to the NBA. I can't blame him, but it's not happening here. Best try to get something for his rights.

[nate33]

I want Pau Gasol. I just can't think of anything else that would be close to as good as an alternative to Durant when you look at the market.

What might it take to get him?

Pau Gasol will be 36 next year, with about 41,000 career minutes under his belt. I agree that he has had a remarkable season this year, but he's about ready to fall off a cliff. It happens with everybody not named Tim Duncan or Karl Malone.

We need to building a roster to play with Wall and Porter for the next 5 years, not finding band-aids and stop-gaps to get through one season at a time.

Thing is--I'd prefer to ride the wheels off a guy year to year and compete in the playoffs and then let him go the moment a good free agent is available

To me, that's preferable to locking up our core with no way out for the next 5 years

My bad. I thought you were talking about trading for him.

Yes, if we strike out on Durant, I wouldn't mind spending $20M or so on a 1-year rental of Gasol - particularly if Durant signs a 1+1 to stay in OKC. Gasol might demand 2 or 3 years though, and that could be problematic.

[nate33]

The rights to Satoransky + filler might be worth it to Chicago, or other teams for that matter.

Sato and filler for who? Portis?

[nate33]

I don't see Gortat declining in the next 3 years of his contract. He takes too good care of himself. Indeed, I suspect he'll play more minutes than Valanciunas over the next 3 years. He has played way more in each of the past 3 seasons.

So with health not really an issue, the only age-related advantage of Valanciunas is the assumption that he'll improve going forward. I suppose that's possible, but I don't think guys with 6000 minutes already under their belt really improve all that much. The problem with JV is that he's not a good rim protector, and he's mostly only a post-up guy on offense. He's a bad fit with Wall because post-up guys need PG's who can shoot well to help provide spacing. Wall, being a poor shooter, is much better off running the high pick and roll. Gortat is a MUCH better pick and roll player.

Gortat takes good care of himself, but father time doesn't wait for anyone. His effective is largely based on a combination of athleticism and touch, and while one is likely going to be there for the duration of his career, it's only a matter of time before his body starts breaking down.

Granted, he didn't play heavy minutes early in his career, but the amount of minutes he's played with this team alone is going to catch up with him soon.

There's a good chance that the Wizards are going to strike out in free agency and if that happens, I'd rather not have to worry about how we're going to address the center position two years from now while the team scrambles to get back to relevance.

Even if Valanciunas turns out to be a poor fit at worst he turns out to be an asset of questionable value, but an asset nonetheless, while Gortat will simply be an expiring contract.

You make some good points. I have to admit that Valanciunas' box score numbers are pretty impressive. He has been terrible in on/off ratings for 3 years, but so far this year, he looks pretty good (and that's with a good player in Biyombo backing him up).

[Dark Faze]

No you had it right, for Gasol.

There are not a lot of teams that have a starting PG spot available that might entice Sato to use his buyout clause.

With Gasol and some more luck with health--we mighttt be able to brute force our way to the 7th seed and yet another 2nd round showing--which helps the Durant movement. As well, if Pau thinks we can get Durant, he might opt into the last year of his contract which would allow for a Durant, Gasol, Gortat front court combination so long as we include say...hump.

[Ruzious]

Yeah, I think the age factor would make me prefer Jonny V over Gortat - even though I think Gortat's defense makes him a slightly better player at this point in their careers. V's +/- #'s have been bad in the past, but he's a good hard-working 7 footer who gives you a 21 PER and good efficiency.

[Dark Faze]

No to Jonas

The stats are nice this year but I've seen the guy go full ghost WAYYYYYY too many times to replace Gorat with him

[nate33]

Gortat for Valanciunas
Sato for Portis
Dudley for McGary and two 2nd's
tank for lotto pick

Next year we'd be in pretty good shape:
PG Wall
SG Beal/Oubre
SF Porter/Oubre
PF Portis/McGary
C Valanciunas/McGary
$32M in cap room
lotto pick

Even if we strike out on Durant, we'd still have a very young core and could use the cap room for stopgap vets to build depth.

[TheSecretWeapon]

If I could trade Nenê and Gortat for Valanciunas, I'd do it in a second. Valanciunas is young, big and very good. His on/off numbers haven't actually been bad -- they've fluctuated year to year in a way that suggests some randomness that doesn't reflect on the quality of his play. As a rookie, TOR was worse when he was on the floor on offense, and about the same defensively. In year two, they were worse defensively, but about the same on offense. In year three, they were about the same on defense, but much worse on offense. This year, they're much better on offense, but a little worse on defense.

Taken as a whole, they've been about the same on offense, and slightly worse on defense.

While these kinds of numbers won't blow anyone's hair back, they're also fairly normal. Dan Rosenbaum did some research a few years back showing that players early in their careers were likely to have box score stats that outpaced their expected plus/minus numbers, but that box score production and plus/minus tended to "match up" as the player gains experience.

This would be a total no-brainer trade for the Wizards.

[dckingsfan]

Gortat for Valanciunas
Sato for Portis
Dudley for McGary and two 2nd's
tank for lotto pick

Next year we'd be in pretty good shape:
PG Wall
SG Beal/Oubre
SF Porter/Oubre
PF Portis/McGary
C Valanciunas/McGary
$32M in cap room
lotto pick

Even if we strike out on Durant, we'd still have a very young core and could use the cap room for stopgap vets to build depth.

Do you see Oubre being effective at SG. Not sold on that yet. Also, I would like to see us move Beal. Maybe for the Cs two lower picks to try to pick up a SG?

[nuposse04]

Thoughts on Andrew Nicholson? Maybe he can be had in a bigger 3 way trade. Maybe a team desires a shooter and would take Neal.

15-9 per 36 with a TS of 54% isn't abominable. Dude actually has some athletic ability to, which is desperately needed. I don't think he is "better" then Jared, but I think he be a better long term fit. Also has an 8'11 standing reach so he wouldn't be terribly outsized at the 4 against traditional 4s.

He's a guy I'd like to get real cheap in free agency this offseason. Orlando barely plays him, so I doubt he costs much - if any - more than the minimum. He doesn't look like he'll be much of a defender, but he's got scoring skills, and he has 3 point range. He can be a good cheap backup stretch 4.

He can be cheap, but what would make anyone think he can be good? He's 26, he's never established himself in the league at all. He only had one good college season for that matter. This year he's shooting the 3 pretty well, but that's it. He doesn't defend, he doesn't rebound, he doesn't get any assists (i.e. doesn't see the court), doesn't get to the line, he turns it over too much. He looks like dead weight to me.

Age and establishment are good arguments against him. I don't think ORL has been a stable organization up until this season since their coaching was suspect the previous two seasons.

Depends what kinda rebounding you are looking for. His rbd rate is 21.7 and Dudley's is 12.3. Jared's TOv rate is 12.2 while Andrew's 11.9. So I'm not sure how he is any way worse then what we have... seems he is better in those regards. Definitely not the shooter Jared is though. Seems capable and maybe he can become better.

As to his defense... was curious so I looked it up:
http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Height=GT%206-7&PlayerPosition=F&Weight=GT%20225&sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS&dir=-1

Of forwards 6'7 and taller who weight 225lbs or more he isn't rated that bad. His opponents shoot 2.8% worse then usual when he is guarding them. Compare that to guys like Sullinger (0.9% worse when he guards), Milsap (0.4% worse when he guards), Bass (2.6% better when he guards :0 ), Kyle O'quinn (3.9% better when he guards, yikes) and Kenneth Faried, whose opposition shoots 8.1% better when he guards em.... which is flat horrible.

Is that the end all in saying Nicholson is a great defender? Nah, but he probably is better then typecasted and maybe has some potential in fitting into the right system. So long as opponents aren't lighting him up like O'Quinn and Faried I think his defense is salvageable.

I'm prolly interested in him cause we have no semblance of bigs on the right side of 30. :/

As a complete side, a guy I wanted us to trade up for in the 2nd round, and I think others mentioned too: Richaun Holmes :

Averaging 15-6 per 36 with 2 blocks. TS of nearly 60 and a PER of 17. Ortg/Drtg of + 10. WS/48 of .137... How anyone on the sixers bench can have a WS/48 on the + side of .100 is amazing to me. Dude needs to rebound better but damn...

[queridiculo]

Were going on a run we're not out of playoff contention...

You're a fan of this team, you deserve some slack for that alone, but based on everything you've seen so far this season I'm astounded that you would have any faith in this team being able to show any sort of consistency.

I've said it back in December, January was going to be a crucial month for this team. Lots of games against direct rivals and a string of home games and the Wizards basically went out and **** the bed.

A few nice victories, but mostly the same **** they've been putting on the floor all year.

They'll go on a run I'm sure, but in typical Wizards tradition it will be late in the season and likely to the detriment to this franchise.

I can already visualize them securing a first round exit against the Cavs only to watch the team in the 9th spot win the lottery.

[Ruzious]

Gortat for Valanciunas
Sato for Portis
Dudley for McGary and two 2nd's
tank for lotto pick

Next year we'd be in pretty good shape:
PG Wall
SG Beal/Oubre
SF Porter/Oubre
PF Portis/McGary
C Valanciunas/McGary
$32M in cap room
lotto pick

Even if we strike out on Durant, we'd still have a very young core and could use the cap room for stopgap vets to build depth.

Do you see Oubre being effective at SG. Not sold on that yet. Also, I would like to see us move Beal. Maybe for the Cs two lower picks to try to pick up a SG?

Yeah, I'd be perfectly happy with nate's plan and revisiting Beal sometime before the trade deadline. With that frontcourt, we'll probably want to add a shot-blocker.

[deneem4]

Raptors nother trading val for gortat....they're playing to well to give up a core piece cap and have picks if they want to upgrade val...

I do think we need to find a partner for gortat as well as a buyer for Dudley....

Our core should be
Wall, beal, eddie, oubre, porter
(Eddie is honestly one of our best players knows his role and does exactly that, just need more experience)
Beal shouldn't be traded yet...no reason to sell low on a young shooting guard because of $$ concerns...health is never a question come the playoffs