Who Stays? Who Goes? Who Starts?

[SOUL]

This team is an utter mess right now, what is your solution?

Four questions:

What lineup do you want to see for fun?

I want to see this lineup, if we're going to suck:

Payton
Hezonja
Gordon
Frye
Dedmon

(Just for **** and giggles, but I liked the dynamic that Payton and Dedmon had early in the season. I think Frye would stretch the floor for Hezonja a lot and Gordon would be all over the place).


Who are you keeping?

AG is a no brainer for me.
Hezonja is as well for now until we really know what we have.
Payton is almost untouchable for me but if we got a really enticing offer I'd consider it.


Who can be had for the right price?

Oladipo, I'd like to keep him but if it's a crazy good deal for us, I'd go for it.
Vuc, I think has a skillset that a lot of centers don't have, but I'm not sure how it fits on this team without moving players who I think have a way higher ceiling. For a good deal, I'd trade him but other than that I'd keep him.

Who do we need to move 100%?

Tobias. I used to love Tobes, but I'm not in love with his game anymore. I don't think he is doing enough out there to justify his contract, and he seems to have hit a ceiling unless we're going to put him in an entirely different role.

Fournier. I just don't like his game as of late. I think he needs to have the ball in his hands more but I don't trust him at all as of late, let somebody else overpay.

Nicholson. This one only because I don't think we're ever going to use him and I think he has value around the league.

Shabazz, obviously.

Frye is sort of in the Nicholson category for me. I know he does good things out there but there are other things I can't get over. I feel could be really effective on a team other than ours if we can't learn how to use him.

[neuraldarwinism]

mario, aaron, and elfrid we need to see more of and need to be getting big minutes and plays for them. no one else is a starter on a good team so i dont care what we do with them. just dont give them away with a dumbass trade for some above average player to try and win now and ruin our run at the 6th draft position

[neuraldarwinism]

as far as lineups. elfrid, mario, oladipo, aaron, dedmon is all i have left to dream of this season

[OrlandoDream]

Its not even the lineup anymore. After frying Skiles for so long, he has finally started AG and we have lost all those games. You could move Tobias to the bench, put Frye + Napier in DNP, start Mario and we still would not win. Its the body language out there that scares me. Guys are not putting in the effort on both offense and especially defense. Something else is going on inside that locker room and a change in the lineup isnt going to fix that. I dont know if the guys have given up on Skiles or what, but something needs to change. For the first time since this rebuild started, it is clear to all of us that players need to be moves. I think by now we have a good idea of who is here to stay and who can be traded.

The most stressful part of all this is that we all know this team is better then this. We were playing so well earlier and to see this complete bombing is just inexplicable. It makes no sense. We had such high hopes for this year and it just came crashing. You know that front office is sweating right now and its evident that something will change before the trade deadline. I just hope its not a desperate move like trading for Brandon Knight or Eric Gordon(random mediocre players that wont do anything long-term). If Rob is going to make a trade, he needs to make a big splash. Go for somebody big, even if it costs you.

[deggett]

Who do we need to move 100%?

Skiles

[Def Swami]

Honestly, anyone on the team could be had if it nets us a top 15 player or of that realm. But out of preference for who I'd keep in order: Gordon + Hezonja >>> Oladipo > Payton >> Vucevic > Harris > Fournier >> everyone else

I feel like this roster has run its course. We've seen the best of Vucevic, Harris, and Fournier and they're not taking us anywhere important as our 3 best players. I've remained as patient as I can be with Vucevic. Excellent post player and mid-range jumpshooter and he's done a great job passing this year. While making strides on defense, he still appears to be a liability on that end and his rebounding is tailing off (which is the most frustrating part). I think I'm caving on the idea that we need a center who can defend better in the paint. The PF who can stretch the floor and defend is just so elusive (so close to Porzingis smh). Harris and Fournier are just average role players and that's all they'll be. I'd cash in on both and try to make up for our deficiencies in the front court. I feel comfortable with the rest of the wing players for the next 8 years.

Gordon is a gamer; his activity is relentless and he's a guy I'd go into a tough playoff series with knowing he'll be able to match the intensity. He has a long way to go, but his improving jumpshot gives me encouragement that he can be a dynamic 2-way player in a couple of years. He's already a good one-on-one defender, insane athlete, good passer, and strong finisher. Continued improvement in his shooting could turn him into somewhere between Kawhi Leonard and Draymond Green.

Hezonja is a pure shooter who can shoot from anywhere on the court. While he's super athletic, I don't think he knows how to use it to his advantage yet. He actually doesn't seem to finish in the paint on drives all that well, but I think that's an adjustment to the NBA game. The problem here is he rarely gets plays ran for him. But, he should be used in the same mold as JJ Redick in LA, coming of multiple screens, constantly in motion threatening the defenses for 24 seconds with his shooting. He's the one ace on the team who has the ability to do that. I think this is the future starting 2 guard for the Magic for years to come, and if Payton stays, he's the best complement.

Oladipo vs. Payton is a toss up IMHO. Oladipo's defense has been A1 for most of the season, whereas Payton has gotten burned a lot this season (still not sure if he's just bad at defending pick n' roll or if it's part of the Skiles scheme). Payton, like Gordon, can flourish if he develops a consistent jumpshot. But he's so far away from that that it's hard for me to imagine he'll ever get there. Best case scenario is that he becomes a great finisher at the rim and continues to work on his jumper over his career and get to a respectable percentage in 5-8 years (similar to Tony Parker). But, I'm not sure I'm patient enough to wait around that long.

Over the next 9-10 months, I'm watching for any all-star caliber players on the trade block and free agency (Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, Demarcus Cousins, etc.). The team just needs talent anyway it can get it and a consolidation of these young players into a more cohesive team.

[OrlandoNed]

I don't think it's the lineups, its how the players are used. For example, Hezonja is a scorer and a shooter, get him open, get him shots, get him the ball, get him involved in the offense. Stop throwing him out there and using him like Tony Allen and expecting elite defense from him.

[Ducklett]

We need to get rid of Tobias, Oladipo, Evan, and Vuc for young players who have lots of upside or draft picks and just finish this tank strong. Give Elfrid, Aaron, and Mario the green light and see what exactly they can do as the main 3 guy and go from there.

[orlando1214]

As other's have said, there isn't anybody on this team that can't be traded for the right player. However, I do value all the players differently. I still think everybody should be shopped at the deadline, but not all need to be traded just to make a move. Basically, how I divide that players up is like this:

Players you try to keep: AG, Payton, and Mario. All three have a ton of potential and need another season or two before deciding to move.

Players that you shop but would probably be a good idea to keep around: Oladipo and Vuc. Both are very good players with obvious weaknesses. They are capable of being apart of the future core, but I don't think either will ever become a star. They would be good to have around and I don't think they should be traded just to make a deal, but they could fetch a good return as well.

Player that need to be aggressively shopped and should be gone by the deadline: Harris, Frye, and Fournier. All three of these guys should have good value in the league, and are guys that Rob should try to move no matter what. Harris is a solid player but that's all he is, and I feel like the Magic need to move on from him and go all in on AG at Small Forward and get a real Power Forward. Frye is not the player the Magic need him to be, but a better team could value him for his shooting, absolutely no reason why this guy should be on this team after the deadline. As for Evan, I like him more than most, but he is very inconsistent. I won't mind if he is still around after the trade deadline, but I feel like with his scoring potential and his expiring contract, a playoff team needing a good wing bench player might really want him and could net us a good return.

It doesn't matter: Everyone else. I don't care what happens to them. Jason Smith and CJ Watson (if he ever plays again) are both good back ups, but I wouldn't care if they get traded. Everyone else is garbage and not worth writing about.

Skiles: Last but not least, what to do with Skiles. I could write a long post just about Skiles and my complaints with him. I don't think he's the right coach for this team and I think he's terrible at developing players. The losing culture and bad habits are not his fault, but his thickheaded approach to coaching is not how you fix it either. I'm not a fan of firing coaches mid-season, especially one in his first year, but if things don't start to improve soon I think it needs to happen. I do think he will finish out the year though. I think Rob will shake the roster up and see what Skiles can do with different players.

[EAS Law]

I 100% believe that the team has tuned Skiles out. The recent trend defies all logic and reason. We were blowing teams out just a month ago that we lose to now by double digits night in and night out. What a shame. I wish I knew who the culprits were. Funny that the whole chemistry of the team seemed to change after Dipo got moved to the bench. That's my personal observation, and I don't know what that observation could mean, but it appears to be related.

[silent1900]

I 100% believe that the team has tuned Skiles out. The recent trend defies all logic and reason. We were blowing teams out just a month ago that we lose to now by double digits night in and night out. What a shame. I wish I knew who the culprits were. Funny that the whole chemistry of the team seemed to change after Dipo got moved to the bench. That's my personal observation, and I don't know what that observation could mean, but it appears to be related.

I do not know if it is his usual demeanor or not, but Skiles seems like the least engaged coach I've ever seen....almost like he is the one doing the tuning out.

[rcklsscognition]

We really only need to keep Mario + either Gordon or Tobias. Both Gordon and Tobias project to be very similar players statistically. Obviously Gordon is going to be better defensively, but these two guys are going to be fighting for minutes every moment of their career together. I'd prefer to keep them both though, along with Mario, and get rid of everyone else.

I'd keep Elfrid if we could find a new starter in a trade. I'd be more than happy to ship off Oladipo. Fournier easily if we cannot play him at SF with a stretch 4. Vuc couldn't care less either way.

Who starts?

New Player
New Player
Harris
New Player ( I'd move Gordon in here if we could get the right mix of offense in this lineup)
New Player

Bench

Payton
Hezonja
Gordon
Frye
Dedmon

[KillMonger]

Definite Keepers for me: Hezonja/AG
50/50: Vuc/Tobias/Elfrid/Vic
Gotta go: Everyone else maybe including Skiles if that's possible

Explanation
Hezonja- His play this season doesn't make me think any different about him, he has one of the highest ceilings on this team
AG- He's starting to bring his game together and while he still has a ways to go i think he can be that player we saw in summer league

Vuc- Really like Vuc and i can see situations where we can keep him and compete and trade him and compete, no quams about his game to me he's not a rookie or anything we know what he can do.

Tobias- Same with Vuc i can see it if he keep or trade him, he's been underwhelming for me but i'm going to say that he's a victim of skiles ass-tastic offense

Elfrid- Really like Elfrid a lot and when he's engaged and at his best he's arguably the best player on the team problem is we rarely get to see that kind of play from Elfrid on a consistent basis. It's like a light switch that he can't control it goes on and off on a whim

Vic- Not sure him and Elf can play together, he's been shooting a lot better but after two years of non shooting i'm not sure that this is the norm. There is still hope though he's been getting to the line lately at a good clip

don't really care about anyone else on the roster.......but i got to say this man

Fournier- Man, we can't get rid of this guy fast enough....he got benched so i guess he's thinking well hell i'm going to take all the shots now even if i got to force some s it. With him and Shabazz in the same lineup? chuck city....chuck chuck city b tch.....man get these dudes outta here man

[cedric76]

The now lineup should be:

Ep
Evan
Ag
An
Vuc

With cj,dipo,Harris,Smith,ded coming from the bench

As for the lineup of the future
Ep
Mario
AG
??
Vuc

With dipo as our luxury 6th man

So we need to get a tough pf using Harris+Evan

I don't want Griffin or love

The perfect pf would obviously be ibaka but this isn't happening

I 've been a fan of Gibson for a while, I d do Gibson+asset for Harris

[nicnac215]

Our team can't score and can't shoot and Hezonja is rotting on the bench. Let him launch 7 3s a game and as long as his % is decent its a better offensive option than almost anything else on our team. This is the new NBA and how its played. Skiles needs to adapt to how the game is played. Let your best shooters launch 3s whenever they can. Frye should be shooting more 3s too.

[drsd]

Who are you keeping?

Following through on your logic, I will keep Oladipo and Vučević to explore the ultimate roster you create. Any player you do not mention I will also keep, to define an example bench.

As you have Hezonja as a favourite over Oladipo, I will tab the latter as a 6th man.

Your roster is:
Payton/Watson
Hezonja/Oladipo
Gordon/Marble
Smith
Vučević/Dedmon

The pieces you move, Frye, Nicholson, Fournier, and Harris certainly are starting points to building up bench depth. With all the trade buzz, the Celts is rumoured to have a number of assets and picks to increase the Clips bench depth in a trade for Blake Griffin. Orlando can offer the same package. If LA moves to this direction, given that Griffin will not help the Clippers standings and might not be fully healed for this year's playoffs, and is only a year off from free agency anyhow, this is a believable scenario.


Griffin, Stevenson, Mbah a Moute and Dawson for Harris, Frye, Nicholson, and Fournier + Orlando's 20016 and 2018 firsts and the Lakers pick.

Clips becomes:
Paul/Rivers/Prigioni
Redick/Crawford/Fournier
Pierce/Johnson
Harris/Frye/Nicholson
Jordan/Aldrich

Orlando (eventually) becomes:
Payton/Watson
Hezonja/Oladipo
Gordon/Stevenson/Dawson
Griffin/Mbah a Moute
Vučević/Smith/Dedmon

The Clippers is better this season with such a roster. Orlando is better next season with such a roster. I find this essentially reasonable.


..

[Last Guardian]

We unfortunately don't have the mentality. We need to get bigger, tougher, more intense as a team. Starting Dedmon is a nice intermediate move, probably not along term one but we need that intensity.

It was sad watch a team with a 5'9 PG, 6'1 SG and 6'9 C just be tougher than us. We are way bigger than the Celtics and we got manhandled. It shows that our team lacks killer instinct.


I think one very obvious move is that we need to trade Tobias and make way for AG. They are similar players but AG is just better, and it is a waste to have him guarding PFs out there.

Hezonja will probably be great offensively based on what I've seen, so I'd keep him around. The rest of the team might need to be explored for trades.

[Un4given]

Fournier - Not only that I would like to see his minutes shared among other guys immediately but I also really hate an idea of matching a 10+M offer sheet he should get in free agency. Personally, I would take a late first rounder in return without much hesitation, or even gamble with a unprotected pick for future drafts (for instance, trading him for a OKC 2018 pick considering that their top 3 players are hitting free agency in next two summers).

Frye - just to unload his salary before free agency starts, with estimated cap raise and 8M he is supposed to earn off the books and Nicholson contract expiring, Henny should have enough flexibility for at least trying to make some major moves during summer. Durant is probably unreachable but I think Whiteside would be a great catch, making Vooch either a best backup big in the League or very usable trade piece.

Vooch/Harris/Oladipo - I'm fine with them staying but I if there is a chance to trade any of them for a player who would be a better fit or maybe packing two of them for an obvious improvement we should grab it. After all, I don't think their trade value should drop next season and they still have some room to improve.

AG/Elf/Hezonja - I would really hate so see any of those three being traded except maybe as a part of package which could bring us superstar.

Others are definitely expendable but considering their trade values and as long they are not overpayed, I have no problems with them staying around as long (with an exception of Dedmon & Watson) they are not getting significant mpg.

For the rest of the season, I would like to see a starting lineup of Elf/Dipo/Harris/AG/Vooch with Mario being 6th man and having at least part of his minutes completely unleashed, as a first option in offense.

[IllMagic04]

The 3 players I would prefer to keep are EP Oladipo and AG. That's it. I wouldn't shed a tear if anyone else was moved.

[MrTwister]

Boy did general opinion about Evan plummeted, from possible max player to a guy you cant wait to get rid off.