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Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended

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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#21 » by Puff » Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:23 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Puff wrote: Both Gambo & Burns doubted that he would because he is not a quitter. I have had the same thoughts and have expected a resignation from him for weeks.


I've thought he might feel like he just didn't want to deal with this mess any more and could resign as well, and wouldn't be surprised if he has told them something like (for a mutual respect thing), "I will coach out my contract, and play who you want me to play for trade purposes and we can mutually agree to part ways this summer."


I certainly hope they part in a friendly manner. My dislike of Hornacek is not personal, I like the guy. I just want our franchise to start moving in the right direction, the sooner the better. IMO Hornacek is a hindrance to real change at this point.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#22 » by kennydorglas » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:49 am

I think this stage is too big for him. He'd be a fantastic college coach, tho.
I have no doubt in my mind that some colleges will line up pretty big after him next year.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#23 » by bwgood77 » Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:31 pm

kennydorglas wrote:I think this stage is too big for him. He'd be a fantastic college coach, tho.
I have no doubt in my mind that some colleges will line up pretty big after him next year.


Wasn't too big the first year and a half. Just hasn't done well post trade deadline last year after losing Dragic, IT, Ennis and Plumlee and having Knight and Len go down after that. The team was decimated and is again now. Not sure why people expect so much out of what we have right now. The Markieff situation has hurt all season long, though we did start off fairly well before Len and Chandler started getting injured on top of the Markieff situation.

You know I think the ever changing roster due to trades and injuries hurts big time. Apparently so does he.

Hornacek talked before Wednesday’s game about how difficult it has been for the team over his three seasons as coach with an ever-changing look. He said it began with losing Channing Frye in free agency from the 2013-14 team and the three-point guard issues last season that led to a massive midseason shakeup and has continued this season with a bevy of injuries to the point guards and power forwards.

“It’s always beneficial to maybe have the same group for a couple years,” Hornacek said. “It’s a lot easier when the guys know when they’re going in. You get a set rotation. Especially when you’re losing, you’re trying different things to get a spark going.”


http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2016/01/27/phoenix-suns-guard-devin-booker-rising-stars-challenge-snub-well-see-long-run/79443518/
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#24 » by WeekapaugGroove » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:11 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:I think this stage is too big for him. He'd be a fantastic college coach, tho.
I have no doubt in my mind that some colleges will line up pretty big after him next year.


Wasn't too big the first year and a half. Just hasn't done well post trade deadline last year after losing Dragic, IT, Ennis and Plumlee and having Knight and Len go down after that. The team was decimated and is again now. Not sure why people expect so much out of what we have right now. The Markieff situation has hurt all season long, though we did start off fairly well before Len and Chandler started getting injured on top of the Markieff situation.

You know I think the ever changing roster due to trades and injuries hurts big time. Apparently so does he.

Hornacek talked before Wednesday’s game about how difficult it has been for the team over his three seasons as coach with an ever-changing look. He said it began with losing Channing Frye in free agency from the 2013-14 team and the three-point guard issues last season that led to a massive midseason shakeup and has continued this season with a bevy of injuries to the point guards and power forwards.

“It’s always beneficial to maybe have the same group for a couple years,” Hornacek said. “It’s a lot easier when the guys know when they’re going in. You get a set rotation. Especially when you’re losing, you’re trying different things to get a spark going.”


http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2016/01/27/phoenix-suns-guard-devin-booker-rising-stars-challenge-snub-well-see-long-run/79443518/



I think the whole "changes" excuse is a cop out. I mean change is constant for NBA rosters even with the good teams. But especially with the rebuilding teams and that's exactly what he took over with the Suns. When he came into that job he had to know they were going to be plenty of roster movement as they try to rebuild. If losing Channing Fry means your team falls apart then it's not a good enough team to begin with. 3 point guard thing a problem.... well it's a "problem" they created themselves and if he was never in favor of trying that then to me it signifies a bigger issue of the front office and coaching staff not being on the same page.

Jeff seems like a nice guy and I wish him the best of luck but I want to see someone else coaching this team next year.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#25 » by YFZblu » Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:30 pm

bwgood77 wrote:I've thought he might feel like he just didn't want to deal with this mess any more and could resign as well, and wouldn't be surprised if he has told them something like (for a mutual respect thing), "I will coach out my contract, and play who you want me to play for trade purposes and we can mutually agree to part ways this summer."


It would be bizarre to me if Hornacek even considered resigning. There's too much money on the table, and he's probably a thoughtful enough person to understand that quitting his first head coaching job because of adversity would be a very bad idea; unless he just decided that head coaching isn't for him at all anymore.

He's obviously not close to the biggest issue with the team. This team, as we all know, looked bad on paper prior to the year starting, and the Suns best player can't seem to string together consecutive 75-game seasons. This group was destined to lose 55+ games.

IMO, losing Hornacek wouldn't help this team in the slightest.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#26 » by Puff » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:26 am

YFZblu wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:I've thought he might feel like he just didn't want to deal with this mess any more and could resign as well, and wouldn't be surprised if he has told them something like (for a mutual respect thing), "I will coach out my contract, and play who you want me to play for trade purposes and we can mutually agree to part ways this summer."


It would be bizarre to me if Hornacek even considered resigning. There's too much money on the table, and he's probably a thoughtful enough person to understand that quitting his first head coaching job because of adversity would be a very bad idea; unless he just decided that head coaching isn't for him at all anymore.

He's obviously not close to the biggest issue with the team. This team, as we all know, looked bad on paper prior to the year starting, and the Suns best player can't seem to string together consecutive 75-game seasons. This group was destined to lose 55+ games.
IMO, losing Hornacek wouldn't help this team in the slightest.


Wow

I do not know where you were after the 48 win season we added a key reserve in Thomas and had a healthy Bledsoe for all 82 games. We **** the bed and played poorly after dumping the players Hornacek could not coach while missing the playoffs.

This year he had Bledsoe in better shape than ever before and most everyone expected 50 wins and the playoffs, how soon we forget. Bledsoe stayed in Phoenix over the summer and started the season quite well. We also signed the great Tyson Chandler and Brandon Knight to big contracts. Both have had productive careers. The Tyson signing was considered a good move by most observers and fans. He also had our future core Warren and Len with another year of experience along with maybe getting the steal of this past draft in Booker. Hornacek also did not have to coach those guys he could not coach last year (Marcus Morris, Gerald Green, Goran Dragic and Isaih Thomas). He basically started the season with a new roster. He again appears to have a roster he cannot coach. This is two years in a row. How many times does the normal NBA team turn over the roster while keeping the same coach? I think Hornacek has reached his limit, at least mine.

You are correct - he should not resign - he should be fired immediately - but Sarver is not that smart.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#27 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:32 am

YFZblu wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:I've thought he might feel like he just didn't want to deal with this mess any more and could resign as well, and wouldn't be surprised if he has told them something like (for a mutual respect thing), "I will coach out my contract, and play who you want me to play for trade purposes and we can mutually agree to part ways this summer."


It would be bizarre to me if Hornacek even considered resigning. There's too much money on the table, and he's probably a thoughtful enough person to understand that quitting his first head coaching job because of adversity would be a very bad idea; unless he just decided that head coaching isn't for him at all anymore.

He's obviously not close to the biggest issue with the team. This team, as we all know, looked bad on paper prior to the year starting, and the Suns best player can't seem to string together consecutive 75-game seasons. This group was destined to lose 55+ games.

IMO, losing Hornacek wouldn't help this team in the slightest.


I agree with everything you say. I never thought he WOULD resign, but I'm sure there are times he wouldn't have minded being let go, since they have left him a lame duck anyway. I agree the roster construction still needs major work and they were fooling themselves if they thought they had a chance at the playoffs, especially once they saw what Markieff's effort looked like.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#28 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:37 am

Puff wrote:This year he had Bledsoe in better shape than ever before and most everyone expected 50 wins and the playoffs, how soon we forget. .


Of the 56 people who took this poll on projected Suns wins, 50 thought they would win 50 or less, and 32 expected 45 or less. About 30% of us expected 40 or less.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1397461
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#29 » by saintEscaton » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:40 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Puff wrote:This year he had Bledsoe in better shape than ever before and most everyone expected 50 wins and the playoffs, how soon we forget. .


Of the 56 people who took this poll on projected Suns wins, 50 thought they would win 50 or less, and 32 expected 45 or less. About 30% of us expected 40 or less.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1397461


I think we were a 35 win squad when healthy. Now we will be hard pressed to even get near 20
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#30 » by bwgood77 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:48 am

saintEscaton wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Puff wrote:This year he had Bledsoe in better shape than ever before and most everyone expected 50 wins and the playoffs, how soon we forget. .


Of the 56 people who took this poll on projected Suns wins, 50 thought they would win 50 or less, and 32 expected 45 or less. About 30% of us expected 40 or less.

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1397461


I think we were a 35 win squad when healthy. Now we will be hard pressed to even get near 20


I had us between 36 and 40 on that poll. If you would have known no Bledsoe for 51 games, and what Markieff would bring, what would have have projected us to be at? I would have thought hard pressed to win 20 without Bledsoe at all and Markieff like this, and probably hard pressed to win 25 with Bledsoe out 51 games.

It actually might have been the best thing to happen to us long term, particularly if we get a top two pick.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#31 » by bondom34 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:13 am

Cozmo, just saw this thread. Fantastic OP because first, it was very well written and thought out, and second, it went out there to put out your opinion at risk of being unpopular.

Saying that, I also agree. I said it elsewhere, but Hornacek was/is a victim of his own success, he took a roster that wasn't that great and overachieved and it got hopes a little too high. But, he's got a roster full of some really good young players and you know who'd be great to learn from if I were a young guard in the league? An all time great guard. I wonder where you'd find one of them who maybe happened to play for your franchise?

I still keep an eye on you guys, and was really really really really really impressed w/ Warren last game when he lit up OKC. Booker is a flat out stud, and Bledsoe is one of my favorite PGs in the league. Those 3 on the perimeter are a really promising core, and in a couple years when they develop further, bring in a couple vets like OKC did w/ the Perkins trade and roll into being a contender again. But not an 8 seed contender, a legit top tier team after adding another high pick this year. Hornacek deserves to see this thing out.

Having said all that, I'd love Tucker on OKC, as would tons of Thunder fans.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#32 » by bondom34 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:00 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#33 » by enigmatics » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:03 pm

Puff wrote:Wow

I do not know where you were after the 48 win season we added a key reserve in Thomas and had a healthy Bledsoe for all 82 games. We **** the bed and played poorly after dumping the players Hornacek could not coach while missing the playoffs.

This year he had Bledsoe in better shape than ever before and most everyone expected 50 wins and the playoffs, how soon we forget. Bledsoe stayed in Phoenix over the summer and started the season quite well. We also signed the great Tyson Chandler and Brandon Knight to big contracts. Both have had productive careers. The Tyson signing was considered a good move by most observers and fans. He also had our future core Warren and Len with another year of experience along with maybe getting the steal of this past draft in Booker. Hornacek also did not have to coach those guys he could not coach last year (Marcus Morris, Gerald Green, Goran Dragic and Isaih Thomas). He basically started the season with a new roster. He again appears to have a roster he cannot coach. This is two years in a row. How many times does the normal NBA team turn over the roster while keeping the same coach? I think Hornacek has reached his limit, at least mine.

You are correct - he should not resign - he should be fired immediately - but Sarver is not that smart.


The only "wow" factor is your blind belief in Knight/Bledsoe/Chandler.

..... and that mess about a "key reserve" in Thomas. You conveniently forgot how it disrupted the rotation we had. That's some special stuff right there. :lol:

This continues to fall back on the GM and his quest to acquire "assets" to bring big names to Phoenix - except they're not coming here and he meddled with a 48 win squad that was a game out of the playoffs a few years ago. Had Goran Dragic been healthy for that final week of the year, that would not have been the case. Ever since then the roster has been in flux and key names can't stay healthy COUGH Bledsoe -----> But you'd have to be Hellen Keller not to see that ish was gonna happen again. We threw stupid money at that kid in the process knowing the risks.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#34 » by YFZblu » Mon Feb 1, 2016 1:11 am

Puff wrote:I do not know where you were after the 48 win season we added a key reserve in Thomas and had a healthy Bledsoe for all 82 games. We **** the bed and played poorly after dumping the players Hornacek could not coach while missing the playoffs.


2015 had its own set of problems that are completely different than what we're seeing here. That was a sadly emotional and dramatic group of people who didn't fit well together, and eventually came unhinged not only on the court, but as people (in the case of the Morris brothers). Blaming Hornacek for not turning water into wine in that situation is extremely simple-minded.

Puff wrote:This year he had Bledsoe in better shape than ever before and most everyone expected 50 wins and the playoffs, how soon we forget.


Bledsoe is always in shape - he was dubbed "Mini LeBron" for a reason. He could haul off and miss 50 games simply because that's the nature of his body for one reason or another. Also I wasn't around for the 50-win circlejerk, so I haven't forgotten anything. I simply saw the writing on the wall after last season's unravelling.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#35 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Mon Feb 1, 2016 2:48 pm

Okay you can lock it now.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#36 » by SunsRback4Good » Mon Feb 1, 2016 4:58 pm

No, he'll come back in 5 years this thread must live on.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#37 » by RaisingArizona » Mon Feb 1, 2016 6:36 pm

Like I said, ib4tl.
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#38 » by 8on » Mon Feb 1, 2016 6:52 pm

The two threads look pretty funny next to each other like this.

"Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended"
"Jeff Hornacek Fired"

lol, so much for that
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#39 » by TeamTragic » Mon Feb 1, 2016 7:17 pm

dantley4prez wrote:The two threads look pretty funny next to each other like this.

"Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended"
"Jeff Hornacek Fired"

lol, so much for that


I laughed everytime I saw this thread. Inmates running the asylum :lol:
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Re: Jeff Hornacek Should Be Extended 

Post#40 » by GMATCallahan » Mon Feb 1, 2016 11:07 pm

Puff wrote:[Wow

I do not know where you were after the 48 win season we added a key reserve in Thomas and had a healthy Bledsoe for all 82 games. We **** the bed and played poorly after dumping the players Hornacek could not coach while missing the playoffs.

This year he had Bledsoe in better shape than ever before and most everyone expected 50 wins and the playoffs, how soon we forget. Bledsoe stayed in Phoenix over the summer and started the season quite well. We also signed the great Tyson Chandler and Brandon Knight to big contracts. Both have had productive careers. The Tyson signing was considered a good move by most observers and fans. He also had our future core Warren and Len with another year of experience along with maybe getting the steal of this past draft in Booker. Hornacek also did not have to coach those guys he could not coach last year (Marcus Morris, Gerald Green, Goran Dragic and Isaih Thomas). He basically started the season with a new roster. He again appears to have a roster he cannot coach. This is two years in a row. How many times does the normal NBA team turn over the roster while keeping the same coach? I think Hornacek has reached his limit, at least mine.

You are correct - he should not resign - he should be fired immediately - but Sarver is not that smart.


But the Suns were not bad last year before the All-Star break. They represented a roller coaster, but they were also 29-25 and still very much in play for a playoff berth. Then management decided to make some changes and the biggest acquisition, Brandon Knight, hurt his ankle. Hornacek never enjoyed a full season with which to build on the 48-win success or even to work with Thomas; there was just too much impatience and too much radical change for ambiguous returns.

(I will also say that while Channing Frye by himself should not constitute a critical piece, when playing two ball-handling, driving guards simultaneously, having that three-point shooting "stretch-four" makes a critical difference in the current NBA, given what today's players are accustomed to spatially and given how most of them lack refined passing skills. During the 1990s, for instance, Phoenix arguably possessed four-to-six players almost ever year who were better passers than anyone on the roster over the last four seasons.)

Warren and Len profile as complementary players—and not as elite complementary players, either. I like them both well enough, but they do not form much of a core by themselves. Booker could be more than that, but he turned nineteen just before the season started. When Stephen Jackson was nineteen in 1997, he could not even make the Suns. And Tyson Chandler is an aging role player whose diminished athleticism has turned him into an offensive liability while reducing his defensive impact as well. At his age and with his mileage, this danger was always there.

Hornacek may not have represented the long-term answer at coach, but without better management and better personnel (and better attention to how players fit together), there are no long-term answers at coach.

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