Trade Deadline Countdown....What will we do? What should we do?

[bwgood77]

I repeat for the umpteenth time. Hornacek has lost the locker room and needs to go, now.

You sure do. Even in the trade thread. In every thread. Please don't derail threads.

I do no usually post in this thread because virtually all of it nonsense.

I commented on Frank Lee's and Carey's posts that were not trade related but were made in this thread. They were questioning the minutes that were being handed out to Len and Warren by Coach Hornacek.

Fair enough, but most of that evolved from Brandon Knight not having trade value and when he might be back....there was just an add on about minute distribution in the last one before your post of your usual stuff.

[TeamTragic]

Griffin, Moute, Dawson for PHX #1, Cavs #1, Booker, Kieff, Mirza, Goodwin

PHX goes with in 16-17

Bledsoe/ Price
Knight/ Bogdanovic
Tucker/ Warren/ Dawson
Griffin/ Leuer/ C. Jefferson(?)
Chandler/Len

Plus $20 million in FA money

Losing Book hurts, Goodwin too maybe and of course the pick(S), but if you have a chance at an All-NBA level PF you do it. Memories of losing out on Harden because of Gortat/ Dudley haunt us still.

Edit: Hit submit instead of preview...

Please just **** stop

[8on]

Danny Ainge, apparently, is inquiring about Al Horford and Jeff Teague.

Atlanta, I'm sure, is reluctant to trade Teague, and probably more so for Horford.

This reinforces an old theme: you don't trade stars. Unless they've expressed, or seem to express a desire to leave, you keep them. Everyone else in the league would kill for the guys you drafted. Much better idea to build around them than to let them go.....ever, if possible.

[8on]

Unless Blake demands a trade, I'm certain the Clippers will not trade Blake, when they can just reboot the lineup around him.

[Boxy99]

Do we really want to make stupid trades tying to get a big fish?

Trading away young talent when we are in a rebuilt is just ridiculous! We just have to be patient with what we have and not go for some quick fix that might just get us in the playoffs.

Booker, TJ, Len and to some extant Goodwin is what we should be excited about. If we get a top 3 pick this year and hold on to our tallent in a few years time all these players will be the same age and should have the chemistry which will attract quality FA to really to push for a championship.

We could potentially shop either bled or knight for a draft pick or some young tallent with Booker showing coming on like he has.

[AtheJ415]

N.O doesn't have any quality young players outside of A.D.

Yup. I always laugh when people refer to the talent on NO. Davis and Anderson are the only guys worth their contracts on that team, and Anderson is about to become overpaid this offseason.

[AtheJ415]

Anyone thinking if we held onto IT we could've gotten more for him is out of their minds. First, Bledsoe isn't a 2, so if we kept him it hurts his development and forces him to play out of position. IT also wasn't happy coming off the bench so that never works. But mostly, his value was not high because the league doesn't value him. He posted monster numbers in SAC, and despite that a whole $7 mil a year was his best offer. In Phoenix he produced great numbers again, but the best trade offer was a 1st rounder. In what world were we going to get more than a first for him?

His height limits his defense, and for a lot of coaches his ballstopping is inexcusable. That's why SAC let him walk despite being really good for them, and it's why only really Phoenix showed interest in him that offseason. It won't make sense to many, but IT is not seen around the league as somebody that coaches and GM's really value the way they would a typical all-star. Hell, Bledsoe this year and Knight last year probably make the East all star team against this year's competition. I just don't think IT would get much more than a 1st if Boston put him on the block today. He's a good player who I like a lot, but most of the league can't get past his height, and you're not going to see many give up multiple firsts for a guy that small. If they were, then many jump on him when Phoenix shopped him or else when he was an FA with no offers despite putting up better numbers than Kyrie Irving at the time.

Also, I remember most people here absolutely railing on the guy when he was here, so I find it funny that now that he's gone east, upped his numbers a little bit with a more expanded role (expected since he's the only guy at PG there), that people wish we could've kept him. He was always really good.

[AtheJ415]

Unless Blake demands a trade, I'm certain the Clippers will not trade Blake, when they can just reboot the lineup around him.

Seriously, if they trade Blake they might as well fully rebuild. Paul is getting older, and Deandre is not a star although he's really good at the things he does. If they dump Blake, they aren't a contender, and might as well get younger imo. Since I don't see them doing that, I don't see them trading Blake.

[AtheJ415]

Booker is untouchable. So is our pick without protection.

Sorry guys, but this is very short sighted, IMO. I love Book and the pick is nice, but for the right package you need to let them go. If you have an All-NBA caliber talent available at that price you do it (assuming health isn't a concern) and put the right pieces around him.

I would agree if it means we will start competing for a title.
Stripping the team for Griffin will kill the Suns. We'd have a few players on big contracts. Our depth would be hurt and it would be hard to put the right pieces around him.

If a far more talented Clippers team can't win with Griffin, there's no way a stripped down Suns team will.

I do agree, to get a star like Griffin, the Suns would have to give up the farm for him. Problem is, the Suns aren't in the right position to go after him. Not good trade partners.
With the Warriors and Spurs young and locked up for the next half decade, there's really no reason to try to compete now.

Agree. Gutting everyone for a 27 (26 now but since we're doing nothing this year, let's call him 27) year old star is nonsense. It puts you in the position that you essentially can't become a contender. Can anybody name 1 team that traded for a 27 year old star by giving up everything of value, then essentially building the entire team around that guy over the years and won a title. It's just too short a window. If you're going to gut the team it needs to be for an MVP or somebody younger. I'd be all for getting Blake, but it would really depend what was given up. The age of the team is a key factor. If we had a bunch of guys ready to win at a title level right now to put around him I'd be all for it, but we don't, so we're better off going young and keeping the pick and Book.

[carey]

N.O doesn't have any quality young players outside of A.D.

Yup. I always laugh when people refer to the talent on NO. Davis and Anderson are the only guys worth their contracts on that team, and Anderson is about to become overpaid this offseason.

Also, and everyone will kill me for saying this... I watch a lot of Pelicans games since I live in NOLA & I think A.D. is a bit overrated. People were saying he's the 3rd best player in the league. I don't think so. He has all the tools. He's improved tremendously. But he's passive and, although I hate this term, kind of injury prone? He gets these knick knack injuries that usually amount to around 20 games per season, which may not sound like a lot till you realize it's almost 1/4 of it.. He shoots a good percentage and will get you 10 boards a game but he is very passive. He should be demanding the ball every play. He disappears for long stretches. Good guy and all, but I liken him to Kevin Love. If he's your best player and your 2nd best player is of the Kevin Martin variety (Jrue Holiday,) well you see what happens.

[letsgosuns]

I am not a fan of the line of thinking that there is no reason to compete now because of the Warriors or Spurs.

First off, the Spurs do not scare me at all. I watched them get annihilated against the Warriors and smoked tonight by the Cavaliers. Both games they did not have Duncan and looked nothing like the Spurs of old. I am not sure people realize how important Duncan is to the team. He is everything. Without him, they are not the same. LaMarcus Aldridge is nowhere near the player Duncan is. He is not even in the same stratosphere. Sure the Spurs will probably be a top team but the overpowering, greatest power forward of all time is most likely soon to be retired, as is Ginobili. It is hard to stay a championship contender when two of your most important players are old and/or retired. Even Parker is starting to get up there in age.

The Warriors are amazing but so what. Are the Suns supposed to concede the next decade because of Steph Curry? Screw that. All it takes is one or two lucky moves to get the Suns back into contention. The Suns will hopefully have a top three draft pick. They have some young players with big potential. Idk what kinds of trades will be made but there most likely will be some big ones. I do not want to sit around and watch terrible basketball for five more years. I want the Suns to get better much sooner than that. I think it can be done as long as no stupid moves are made ala pretty much everything that happened last offseason.

[MrMiyagi]

I am not a fan of the line of thinking that there is no reason to compete now because of the Warriors or Spurs.

First off, the Spurs do not scare me at all. I watched them get annihilated against the Warriors and smoked tonight by the Cavaliers. Both games they did not have Duncan and looked nothing like the Spurs of old. I am not sure people realize how important Duncan is to the team. He is everything. Without him, they are not the same. LaMarcus Aldridge is nowhere near the player Duncan is. He is not even in the same stratosphere. Sure the Spurs will probably be a top team but the overpowering, greatest power forward of all time is most likely soon to be retired, as is Ginobili. It is hard to stay a championship contender when two of your most important players are old and/or retired. Even Parker is starting to get up there in age.

The Warriors are amazing but so what. Are the Suns supposed to concede the next decade because of Steph Curry? Screw that. All it takes is one or two lucky moves to get the Suns back into contention. The Suns will hopefully have a top three draft pick. They have some young players with big potential. Idk what kinds of trades will be made but there most likely will be some big ones. I do not want to sit around and watch terrible basketball for five more years. I want the Suns to get better much sooner than that. I think it can be done as long as no stupid moves are made ala pretty much everything that happened last offseason.

I think I agree with you. I was very optimistic about this squad coming into this season, we've got some injury woes and a Markieff weighing us down. I think the proper course of action right now is to let this season go, get healthy, draft well and get ready for next year. There really doesn't seem to be a move right now unless we can con someone into taking Markieff. We still have a young team outside of Chandler/Tucker (not including Kieff because he should be gone next season), everyone has been improving. I really think we just need to let these guys jell.

[thamadkant]

I am not a fan of the line of thinking that there is no reason to compete now because of the Warriors or Spurs.

First off, the Spurs do not scare me at all. I watched them get annihilated against the Warriors and smoked tonight by the Cavaliers. Both games they did not have Duncan and looked nothing like the Spurs of old. I am not sure people realize how important Duncan is to the team. He is everything. Without him, they are not the same. LaMarcus Aldridge is nowhere near the player Duncan is. He is not even in the same stratosphere. Sure the Spurs will probably be a top team but the overpowering, greatest power forward of all time is most likely soon to be retired, as is Ginobili. It is hard to stay a championship contender when two of your most important players are old and/or retired. Even Parker is starting to get up there in age.

The Warriors are amazing but so what. Are the Suns supposed to concede the next decade because of Steph Curry? Screw that. All it takes is one or two lucky moves to get the Suns back into contention. The Suns will hopefully have a top three draft pick. They have some young players with big potential. Idk what kinds of trades will be made but there most likely will be some big ones. I do not want to sit around and watch terrible basketball for five more years. I want the Suns to get better much sooner than that. I think it can be done as long as no stupid moves are made ala pretty much everything that happened last offseason.

No one is really saying be terrible for 5 years... no, I dont want the Suns to be 76ers and just tank year after year.

But the point is, you have to BUILD a team. Either via FA or Draft. FA wise, the Suns are limited, no one wants to come to the Suns.. well no one in their prime, Suns reputation is currently in the bottom rung of the NBA, you have to build that up slowly.
By having assets (picks), young GOOD players, ability to make more moves etc... thats attractive to stars. They are not idiots, they can gauge how a team will do by looking at its assets and player list.


2ndly, the Spurs doesnt scare you.. fair enough. But they still destroyed the Suns by 20 points WITHOUT Duncan and their starters playing average. So they arent scary to you but they are a much much better TEAM than the Suns.

You mentioned the Warriors... Well... their basketball style, their location (San Francisco), their ownership, their fans... they have the recipe to be the modern-day Lakers... they are revolutionizing the game. The Spurs have been a 60% win team for 20 years... 5 championships... they arent going away easily... Warriors are potentially a team on a similar path...

So yes, there IS NO POINT waiting for the Warriors or Spurs to drop off, because another team will just join them if they drop off a bit from the top... but the Suns should be laying down the foundation this season for a great decade or 2.

Hence Sarver rushing the Suns is detrimental to the future.... McD wants a long term solution when he joined only to be told to rush.. and the team you see today is the results of that.

The best move is to continue to develop the youth, get a high pick in the 2016 draft.... keep salary space for 2017 and beyond.... either develop a team from the under 23 list or trade the picks for All-Stars. But EVERY team aims to get All-Stars... hence you have to strategically gauge the market and what teams are doing.


2017, should be the Suns pushing for 35-45 wins... via young players.
2018, use the space and assets to push for a top 4-5 Western position.... then go from there.

[saintEscaton]

N.O doesn't have any quality young players outside of A.D.

Yup. I always laugh when people refer to the talent on NO. Davis and Anderson are the only guys worth their contracts on that team, and Anderson is about to become overpaid this offseason.

Also, and everyone will kill me for saying this... I watch a lot of Pelicans games since I live in NOLA & I think A.D. is a bit overrated. People were saying he's the 3rd best player in the league. I don't think so. He has all the tools. He's improved tremendously. But he's passive and, although I hate this term, kind of injury prone? He gets these knick knack injuries that usually amount to around 20 games per season, which may not sound like a lot till you realize it's almost 1/4 of it.. He shoots a good percentage and will get you 10 boards a game but he is very passive. He should be demanding the ball every play. He disappears for long stretches. Good guy and all, but I liken him to Kevin Love. If he's your best player and your 2nd best player is of the Kevin Martin variety (Jrue Holiday,) well you see what happens.

AD can definitely be your go to #1, he proved that last year by singlehandedly propelling the Pels into the playoffs, something Westbrook despite his triple double streak was unable to do . His growth from year 2 to 3 was astronomical and historically unparalleled the youngest player to ever record over a 30 PER and have a True Shooting percentage near 60%, putting him in company with ATGs. The KLove comparison is completely offbase he has come clutch in the past and is actually impactful. He is a transcendent offensive talent who's efficiency isn't reduced by increased volume. He is already a monster shot blocker and improving rim protector, he just needs to learn some defensive discipline as he's more of a free rover than an anchor. Gentry has also been misusing him as PF to stretch the floor on the pick in pop and asking him to bang low in the post instead of facing up and playing around the rim. He was a guard for most of his life until he had an unexpected growth spurt so he very much still plays like one without a back to the basket repertoire.

[RunDogGun]

I'd be ok with just trading Markieff, and signing McRae and Jeffeson for the season, maybe giving McRae a second year team option.

I could see us moving Chandler as well, and maybe Tucker and Tele at the trade deadline. Chandler could provide a team gunning for the chip solid minutes, as would both Tucker and Tele. Tele is a no brainer, because he is only on a one year deal, and it's doubtful he would resign here, with us being in the shape we are in. Tucker has a partial guarantee contract.

Overall, I think we should keep as many of the team together as possible, and add a few here and there. If there are any takers for Knight, we should listen.

[jcsunsfan]

I think they are looking for a pg. They are thinking about sitting Knight for the rest of the year IMO. If they do, they need a pg or the bigs will never see the ball. Booker is developing nicely. He just needs to continue to get more time and work on his D. Warren seems to be falling off some. I think he has hit a snag in his development and I am not sure what it is--probably blowing defensive assignments.

The big issue is Len. We have to find a way to get him on track. Its there. You can see it. But some games he seems just absent, and others he just never sees the ball. Somehow, he has to start contributing consistently. I do think our guards have alot to do with it, because Chandler is contributing inconsistently as well.

[Blackification]

I'd be ok with just trading Markieff, and signing McRae and Jeffeson for the season, maybe giving McRae a second year team option.

I could see us moving Chandler as well, and maybe Tucker and Tele at the trade deadline. Chandler could provide a team gunning for the chip solid minutes, as would both Tucker and Tele. Tele is a no brainer, because he is only on a one year deal, and it's doubtful he would resign here, with us being in the shape we are in. Tucker has a partial guarantee contract.

Overall, I think we should keep as many of the team together as possible, and add a few here and there. If there are any takers for Knight, we should listen.

I agree with this, but i would like it if we moved markieff, tucker, and tele at the deadline. I can not see Knight in any way in the future of this team and think we should make trading him in the off season a priority (hopefully he comes back from his injury and raises his trade value to end the season. I'd say trade him asap but his value is very low right now

[thamadkant]

Heat and Suns...

Chandler + Tucker + 2019 Heat pick for Whiteside + Deng + Andersen

I know Len and Whiteside has history but they can patch it up.

Suns offer max to Whiteside in the off season.



Then...
Knight + Morris + Warren for Griffin (out fot 4 weeks)

Suns
C: Whiteside / Len / Andersen (expiring)
PF: Griffin (Out for 4 weeks) / Leuer / Jefferson
SF: Deng (expiring) / Booker / Weems
SG: Booker / Weems / McRae
PG: Goodwin / McRae / Price

Still a bottom 5 team but with expirings.

[nevetsov]

Heat and Suns...

Chandler + Tucker + 2019 Heat pick for Whiteside + Deng + Andersen

Whiteside is unrestricted, right? So he has no obligation to sign with us. And given the number of better teams with cap space the likelihood is that he'll bolt for nothing. So we basically give up the highly valued heat pick to dump Chandler... No thanks.

[SSOL]

Sorry guys, but this is very short sighted, IMO. I love Book and the pick is nice, but for the right package you need to let them go. If you have an All-NBA caliber talent available at that price you do it (assuming health isn't a concern) and put the right pieces around him.

I would agree if it means we will start competing for a title.
Stripping the team for Griffin will kill the Suns. We'd have a few players on big contracts. Our depth would be hurt and it would be hard to put the right pieces around him.

If a far more talented Clippers team can't win with Griffin, there's no way a stripped down Suns team will.

I do agree, to get a star like Griffin, the Suns would have to give up the farm for him. Problem is, the Suns aren't in the right position to go after him. Not good trade partners.
With the Warriors and Spurs young and locked up for the next half decade, there's really no reason to try to compete now.

Agree. Gutting everyone for a 27 (26 now but since we're doing nothing this year, let's call him 27) year old star is nonsense. It puts you in the position that you essentially can't become a contender. Can anybody name 1 team that traded for a 27 year old star by giving up everything of value, then essentially building the entire team around that guy over the years and won a title. It's just too short a window. If you're going to gut the team it needs to be for an MVP or somebody younger. I'd be all for getting Blake, but it would really depend what was given up. The age of the team is a key factor. If we had a bunch of guys ready to win at a title level right now to put around him I'd be all for it, but we don't, so we're better off going young and keeping the pick and Book.

You have a player, on a rookie contract, with top five at his position potential and you want to cash him in for a star whose years don't mesh with the current state of this team and you think that's shortsighted? The Suns have drafted well. Add to that smartly. Don't take away from it. Trade Knight, Bled, Chandler, Kieff, Tucker, etc. it is irresponsible to trade the young guys, sans Goodwin, at this point.