What Caused the Shaq vs Riley Feud?

[Big NBA Fan]

Hey everyone, it's been awhile since I have posted on RealGM, but I'm coming here because you have always been helpful and insightful to the topics I post about like the Shaq trade to Miami, SVG's mysterious resignation, etc.

My question deals with the now-well-documented and ugly falling out between Shaq and Riley.

My question is: How the hell did their relationship deteriorate so badly and so quickly? At-least Shaq/Kobe co-existed for 8 years...Shaq and Pat had a falling out after just 2 years.

What specifically caused it? I remember how fun and memorable the 2005 season was with all the excitement Shaq brought to the city, the highly successful regular season, Wade's emergence as a superstar, etc.

It seemed like a lock that Shaq would be in Miami forever...then we all remember his ugly decline post-2006 and the eventual falling out with Riley which led to Shaq forcing his way out.

Do those of you believe Shaq's claim that Riley didn't want him anymore and pretty much kicked him out of Miami? What is Shaq still bitter about?

I don't think Pat ever did anything bad to him to deserve the continued bitterness from Shaq towards him.

For those who have information about this situation...what happened so quickly that caused Shaq's tenure to be so short-lived?

Thanks.

[DayofMourning]

Egos really. You have two guys with massive egos with completely different perspectives on what it takes to be a champion. Riley was well noted for his conditioning goals and his serious nature. Shaq the complete opposite. If Shaq would have gotten down to 275 or so and stayed quick, he would have been a much better player late in his career. Instead he decided that you didn't need conditioning in basketball and this drew Riley's ire. That was compounded by Shaq being unable to take criticism. He withdraws and becomes a temper tantrum throwing toddler.

If Shaq would have had a truly great attitude, and been affected by criticism to compete harder, he'd be the greatest player of all time.

[heatwillbeback]

At that point in his career shaq was all about his paycheck, especially when Wade went down.

We had to be contending to make it work, and no Wade meant none of that.

[Enso]

Is there any truth to the notion that post 06, Payton had found some way to circumvent the Treadmill equipment and mess with the readings. That's why most of the vets we're out of shape in the 06-07 season because they we're tampering with the equipment. Then Riley found out and lost it. Some guy I was talking too told me this story as if it was common knowledge among Heat Fans but it was the first time I ever heard of that. Anyone ever hear something like or it's just straight up bull?

[Enso]

Also to answer OP Shaq was out of shape. It started when he decided to "Put on more muscle over the summer" I remember his first year he was in great shape. Then 06 he put on weight and then he got injured vs the Pacers spraining his ankle early in the season. He was able to salvage the season but from 04-05 to 05-06 he had clearly put on some weight. After they won the chip he just progressively got less and less in shape. To the point where I think that caused a rift between he and D Wade too.

[QUIZ]

Is there any truth to the notion that post 06, Payton had found some way to circumvent the Treadmill equipment and mess with the readings. That's why most of the vets we're out of shape in the 06-07 season because they we're tampering with the equipment. Then Riley found out and lost it. Some guy I was talking too told me this story as if it was common knowledge among Heat Fans but it was the first time I ever heard of that. Anyone ever hear something like or it's just straight up bull?

That makes no sense. It's not like Riley wouldn't be running them on the court as well and how can you mess with treadmill readings without anybody noticing.

If a trainer tells a player to run at 10mph its not like you wouldn't be able to notice that the speed doesn't look right.

That story sounds like complete BS.

[Enso]

Is there any truth to the notion that post 06, Payton had found some way to circumvent the Treadmill equipment and mess with the readings. That's why most of the vets we're out of shape in the 06-07 season because they we're tampering with the equipment. Then Riley found out and lost it. Some guy I was talking too told me this story as if it was common knowledge among Heat Fans but it was the first time I ever heard of that. Anyone ever hear something like or it's just straight up bull?

That makes no sense. It's not like Riley wouldn't be running them on the court as well and how can you mess with treadmill readings without anybody noticing.

If a trainer tells a player to run at 10mph its not like you wouldn't be able to notice that the speed doesn't look right.

That story sounds like complete BS.

Yeah when he told me my BS radar went off right away. A quick Google search shows nothing of the sort. This thread came up and I said eh let me get my answer once and for all.

[RexBoyWonder]

Is there any truth to the notion that post 06, Payton had found some way to circumvent the Treadmill equipment and mess with the readings. That's why most of the vets we're out of shape in the 06-07 season because they we're tampering with the equipment. Then Riley found out and lost it. Some guy I was talking too told me this story as if it was common knowledge among Heat Fans but it was the first time I ever heard of that. Anyone ever hear something like or it's just straight up bull?

That makes no sense. It's not like Riley wouldn't be running them on the court as well and how can you mess with treadmill readings without anybody noticing.

If a trainer tells a player to run at 10mph its not like you wouldn't be able to notice that the speed doesn't look right.

That story sounds like complete BS.

Yeah when he told me my BS radar went off right away. A quick Google search shows nothing of the sort. This thread came up and I said eh let me get my answer once and for all.

I heard this story back in the day and pretty sure it's true, it had a legit source IRRC. It was something to do with exercise bikes and manipulating the heart rate monitors or something. The story itself is true but it's importance is probably overblown, it was just an example of the divide between Pat and his requirements as an old school coach and the modern day players.

Pat also said he kinda lost the desire to coach these kinds of players, he was used to guys being all in, 110% committed and felt he should move on from coaching. Which gave the gift that keeps on giving = Spo.

[Heat3]

shaq and those old guys got fat, happy and lazy after wade carried them to a ring. some of wade's bad habbits stem from those old guys imo.

i wanted shaq to finish his career here but he left like a punk criticizing the trainer and little guys like chris quinn.

payton always seemed resentful of wade in the years after lol.

[twix2500]

I was in a lot of those circles back then. Shaq, Payton, Walker and Posey even thou they a lot positive they were influencing Wade in a lot of the fast life. Wade being young could handle it (except his marriage), these old vets didn't realize they couldn't live that life without their body suffering. They played around too much, and Riley tried to be the strict father figure. He knew where it was heading. Pat wanted Shaq to retire as a Heat.Then one last event happened.

Here is Shaq telling the events leading to days prior to being traded (be mindful he off by the dates):

" My ticket out of Miami was punched in mid-February 2008. There was a lot of tension between Pat and the players. So we're about to start practice and Jason Williams comes in about ten seconds late. Pat being Pat, he starts swearing at him and screaming, "Get the hell out of here!"...

I tell Pat we're a team and we need to stick together, not throw guys out of the gym. Pat is screaming at me and says if I don't like it, then I should get the hell out of practice, too.

That's when I said, "Why don't you make me?"

I start taking a couple of steps towards Pat. Udonis Haslem steps in and I shove him out of the way. Then Zo tries to grab me. I threw him aside like he was a rag doll. Now it's me and Riley face-to-face, jaw to jaw. I'm poking him in the chest and he keeps slapping my finger away and it's getting nasty. Noisy, too. He's yelling "**** you!" and I'm yelling back, "No, **** you!"

Zo is trying to calm us both down and he has this kind of singsong panic in his voice. He keeps saying, "Big fella, no big fella, big fella!" I finally turn around and tell him, "Don't worry, I'm not going to hit the man. Do you think I'm crazy?"

And days later Shaq was traded, and project Big 3 started.

Sent from my A1-830 using Tapatalk

[QUIZ]

I was in a lot of those circles back then. Shaq, Payton, Walker and Posey even thou they a lot positive they were influencing Wade in a lot of the fast life. Wade being young could handle it (except his marriage), these old vets didn't realize they couldn't live that life without their body suffering. They played around too much, and Riley tried to be the strict father figure. He knew where it was heading. Pat wanted Shaq to retire as a Heat.Then one last event happened.

" My ticket out of Miami was punched in mid-February 2008. There was a lot of tension between Pat and the players. So we're about to start practice and Jason Williams comes in about ten seconds late. Pat being Pat, he starts swearing at him and screaming, "Get the hell out of here!"...

I tell Pat we're a team and we need to stick together, not throw guys out of the gym. Pat is screaming at me and says if I don't like it, then I should get the hell out of practice, too.

That's when I said, "Why don't you make me?"

I start taking a couple of steps towards Pat. Udonis Haslem steps in and I shove him out of the way. Then Zo tries to grab me. I threw him aside like he was a rag doll. Now it's me and Riley face-to-face, jaw to jaw. I'm poking him in the chest and he keeps slapping my finger away and it's getting nasty. Noisy, too. He's yelling "**** you!" and I'm yelling back, "No, **** you!"

Zo is trying to calm us both down and he has this kind of singsong panic in his voice. He keeps saying, "Big fella, no big fella, big fella!" I finally turn around and tell him, "Don't worry, I'm not going to hit the man. Do you think I'm crazy?"

And days later Shaq was traded, and project Big 3 started.

Sent from my A1-830 using Tapatalk

You should clarify that from the " down is told from Shaq's perspective. To those not familiar with the original article it might sound like you're saying you were the one telling pat not to throw guys out of the gym.

[twix2500]

I was in a lot of those circles back then. Shaq, Payton, Walker and Posey even thou they a lot positive they were influencing Wade in a lot of the fast life. Wade being young could handle it (except his marriage), these old vets didn't realize they couldn't live that life without their body suffering. They played around too much, and Riley tried to be the strict father figure. He knew where it was heading. Pat wanted Shaq to retire as a Heat.Then one last event happened.

" My ticket out of Miami was punched in mid-February 2008. There was a lot of tension between Pat and the players. So we're about to start practice and Jason Williams comes in about ten seconds late. Pat being Pat, he starts swearing at him and screaming, "Get the hell out of here!"...

I tell Pat we're a team and we need to stick together, not throw guys out of the gym. Pat is screaming at me and says if I don't like it, then I should get the hell out of practice, too.

That's when I said, "Why don't you make me?"

I start taking a couple of steps towards Pat. Udonis Haslem steps in and I shove him out of the way. Then Zo tries to grab me. I threw him aside like he was a rag doll. Now it's me and Riley face-to-face, jaw to jaw. I'm poking him in the chest and he keeps slapping my finger away and it's getting nasty. Noisy, too. He's yelling "**** you!" and I'm yelling back, "No, **** you!"

Zo is trying to calm us both down and he has this kind of singsong panic in his voice. He keeps saying, "Big fella, no big fella, big fella!" I finally turn around and tell him, "Don't worry, I'm not going to hit the man. Do you think I'm crazy?"

And days later Shaq was traded, and project Big 3 started.

Sent from my A1-830 using Tapatalk

You should clarify that from the " down is told from Shaq's perspective. To those not familiar with the original article it might sound like you're saying you were the one telling pat not to throw guys out of the gym.

Lol I seen it. I apologize. I'm trying my best to do what I shouldn't Tapatalk while driving


Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

[Hoops23]

Shaq one time said in TNT's open court, that he hate Riley for the long hours of practice.

[Enso]

That makes no sense. It's not like Riley wouldn't be running them on the court as well and how can you mess with treadmill readings without anybody noticing.

If a trainer tells a player to run at 10mph its not like you wouldn't be able to notice that the speed doesn't look right.

That story sounds like complete BS.

Yeah when he told me my BS radar went off right away. A quick Google search shows nothing of the sort. This thread came up and I said eh let me get my answer once and for all.

I heard this story back in the day and pretty sure it's true, it had a legit source IRRC. It was something to do with exercise bikes and manipulating the heart rate monitors or something. The story itself is true but it's importance is probably overblown, it was just an example of the divide between Pat and his requirements as an old school coach and the modern day players.

Pat also said he kinda lost the desire to coach these kinds of players, he was used to guys being all in, 110% committed and felt he should move on from coaching. Which gave the gift that keeps on giving = Spo.

would be cool if we could find the source I'd like to see who put that out there

[twix2500]

Yeah when he told me my BS radar went off right away. A quick Google search shows nothing of the sort. This thread came up and I said eh let me get my answer once and for all.

I heard this story back in the day and pretty sure it's true, it had a legit source IRRC. It was something to do with exercise bikes and manipulating the heart rate monitors or something. The story itself is true but it's importance is probably overblown, it was just an example of the divide between Pat and his requirements as an old school coach and the modern day players.

Pat also said he kinda lost the desire to coach these kinds of players, he was used to guys being all in, 110% committed and felt he should move on from coaching. Which gave the gift that keeps on giving = Spo.

would be cool if we could find the source I'd like to see who put that out there

I heard that story, it may not have been reported I think Payton said during a round table discussion yrs back.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

[ryanpuge]

As much as I love Shaq, I do not admire his work ethics.
Imagine Shaq's talent and athleticism with Zo or MJ's work ethics. He will be definitely in the conversation of being the GOAT!

[Flash4thewin]

Wasn't Shaq the player who taught Wade the regular season does not matter?

[Heat3]

yes


also, i believe OP is either Shaq or RIley......

[3ballbomber]

It was always ego w/ Shaq, especially later in his career. He seemed more bitter as years whent on before his eventual retirement.

[contract]

And we're retiring this moron's jersey.