PG: FJU Needs To Be Shut Down

[mpharris36]

as frustrating as this stretch has been we are in our best position asset wise and cap wise in a LONG LONG TIME.

Lopez is a easily movable piece (for draft picks)
As much as AA has been playing like trash he is a moveable piece.
We have some young guys KP, Gallo, Grant, Willy Hernangomez

If we do eventually decide to mutually part ways with Melo there would be a large return coming back our way

After this year we have all our 1st round picks

While the road to a respectable team has had its ups and downs..this isn't a quick fix and isn't all doom and gloom in my opinion. We will go on a 4 or 5 game winning streak soon and people will be excited.

Honestly Melo and KP being banged up has destroyed all our momentum. And AA playing like dooky crap also hasn't helped but Melo and KP injuries have really brought there effectiveness and energy down a notch which is hurting us.

I'm still positive because the franchise is in a decent place for the future regardless of the results this year.

I would add Lance the "young guys" list. I hope you're right about Wily. Not sure he belongs on the list yet, tho.

I also don't know about this "large return" we would get for Melo. What do you envision that to be? I would just like to get a solid young talent and a bunch of draft picks.

I would add Lance and Dwill as assets as well. They would be pieces you could trade as well to a team needing to add a bench wing that can provide defense or scoring.

Willy was wildly considered one of those "late 1st" round pick value wise. He is a young big that has a good offensive game. That is valuable. He probably dropped a bit in the draft because he wasn't coming over at least until next year.

As for Melo's return. I am still not sure what the future holds with him. Obviously he makes our team competitive because he is our best player. But KP and his future are going in different directions. Unless we get a big time FA (durant level). Teague and Conley or whatever point guard I don't even think gets us over the Cavs/GSW/Spurs type hump so maybe the time is to accumulate assets instead of thinking we are 1 piece away (unless its a durant type player).

Something along the lines of a Melo, Blake, Celtics 3-way trade makes some sense too me. Clippers get a chance to win over the next couple years with CP3, Melo, and DJ. Send Blake to celtics to give them there star. Send back a couple unprotected 1st (nets picks) rounders and a young player or two from the celtics might make some sense.

[ibraheim718]

lets be serious for a second. This Kerr being this offensive genius needs to stop. The warriors have Curry and Klay two of the best shot makers in the entire NBA. There range is unlimited. Some of the shots where Klay was coming off a pin down screen we run the exact same play for AA. The difference is Klay is lethal and has arguably the quickest release in the game.

Curry makes some ridiculous shots as well.

Also they have a point forward that sometimes plays point center allowing the 4 small guys to run around and shoot while he draws the big man out of the paint.

Personel wins in the NBA.

Mark Jackson says hello.

[tapshotta]

You know, for years I team with the narrative that ny bball fans were smarter than your average bear..now, think that years of losing have us frustratedly and desperately looking for scapegoats.

Either that or some of us really want Luke Walton here instead of LA . If you truly believe that's what's best for the team I'm not mad at you.

But when your starting point guard had 1pt and 2 assists that's ain't good. No amount of coaching is gonna fix that. Lang is a very efficient combo guard but not a starter at this point. Period. And outside of Melo and KP (who's a lesser impact that micro IT the all-star) player for player that celts team is probably more talented.

We win on Defence, ball movement, time of possession, in that order. We don't have the firepower to run and gun with better teams and nobody beside Melo AA and kinda sorta DW can create a shot for themselves in ISO ball OKC type offence. Nobody beside Melo can consistently create for others.

We live and die by the parts summing up to be greater. And to those who think we should just dump the ball to KP and day duck the season, there is no quicker way to poison a locker room. That is dumb. Wanna make the humble kid who's learning his way and being treated like one of the guys feel awkward, keep trying to put him on this pedestal. Let the kid live and grow into those big ass shoes he wears.

Don't worry about Melo window, I'm sure he's fine. That's a grown ass man with real clout. If he feels like NY isn't best for him in confident he can open his mouth and express himself clearly regardless of what some of you think. I'm also confident that he knows more about what the future might hold easy better than us.

Smh, why do I always feel like I'm this lone dissident voice in the woods here? Like I'm this warped voice of reason. *kanye shrug*

[dakomish23]

They wanted to dump Jack, not Zeller. But anyway, they collect picks and then deal them. Sure, it's a process but the process starts with liquidating win now assets for future picks. The Knicks have ignored this for 15 years.

Before the Knicks trade a 2018 1st for an average PG, no matter how big an upgrade that would be, they should move Melo and rebuild the right way.

They paid a 1st to dump Zeller, not to trade Jack to BKN. Thats what they paid. They also got rid of Jack in the deal. But they paid to dump Zeller.

You are not getting that type of deal this summer or the next.

Did GSW liquidate win now assets? Nope. They actually moved two picks to get their finals MVP in FA.

Guess what BOS is trying to do with these picks? Make a trade for a stud. But you want to dump a stud for no reason than just to pigeon hole yourself to one method of roster construction.

When you say the right way, it means you've learned the wrong things about team building.

They gave up a pick to move Jarret Jack, who was flipped to Brooklyn for Marcus Thornton. Jack made $6.4 million and Zeller like $1.2. They needed to move Jack.

2nd. I want to move Melo because Melo and KP are on different career archs. The reality is by the time we can put a contender around Melo his best days will be behind him. Sometimes you have to look to the future. Like the Mets did when they moved Beltran and Dicky for young pieces. The window to build a winner around Melo in NYC is basically closed. Right now he's not good enough to take a team to the playoffs.

1st

It was a 3 team deal. Not multiple transactions.

http://nesn.com/2014/07/celtics-complete-three-team-trade-add-marcus-thornton-tyler-zeller-draft-pick/

2nd

You know who else had different career arcs? Robinson and Duncan. Then Duncan and Kawhi.

3rd

NO ONE is bringing this team with this coach and roster to the playoffs. No one. Not one person in the NBA can carry their team every night with zero help and terrible coaching.

We had multiple top 10 picks in the 2000's. Why don't the build through the draft guys ever bring that up? Guess what. A frontcourt of Gallo Frye and Hill aren't winning 30 games in this league. The only truly successful season we've had in 15 years was on the back of a guy we trade for and a FA.

Getting rid of Melo will only spiral this team into oblivion for another 5+ years. And I bet after that we trade picks to try to find someone who is even close to this back end of his prime Melo.

[Red Vines]

Team is going nowhere with this coach and offense. The biggest thing we have going is that we have some high character, hard working players who battle despite the horrible coaching. But nobody has benefited from Fisher or the triangle, nobody is thriving, everybody is forcing bad shots, how much longer until we run some **** plays? Wally just flat out said the obvious on Twitter tonight: run pick & roll.

[tapshotta]

lets be serious for a second. This Kerr being this offensive genius needs to stop. The warriors have Curry and Klay two of the best shot makers in the entire NBA. There range is unlimited. Some of the shots where Klay was coming off a pin down screen we run the exact same play for AA. The difference is Klay is lethal and has arguably the quickest release in the game.

Curry makes some ridiculous shots as well.

Also they have a point forward that sometimes plays point center allowing the 4 small guys to run around and shoot while he draws the big man out of the paint.

Personel wins in the NBA.

Mark Jackson says hello.

A young team just growing into their individual primes after three seasons of building chesion wavez back with a singular shiny ring on each of their fingers

[mpharris36]

lets be serious for a second. This Kerr being this offensive genius needs to stop. The warriors have Curry and Klay two of the best shot makers in the entire NBA. There range is unlimited. Some of the shots where Klay was coming off a pin down screen we run the exact same play for AA. The difference is Klay is lethal and has arguably the quickest release in the game.

Curry makes some ridiculous shots as well.

Also they have a point forward that sometimes plays point center allowing the 4 small guys to run around and shoot while he draws the big man out of the paint.

Personel wins in the NBA.

Mark Jackson says hello.

Agreed to an extent. Not saying coaches don't have an impact. I wasn't trying to imply that.

However Draymond Green says hello even more. His development and skillset has taken that team to the next level. Because lets be honest Curry and Klay aren't crazy playmakers (in terms of setting up there teammates). They are more shot makers. Green with his ability to defense, start the break, get his shooters the ball in positions they can shoot as changed that team from being really good (which they still were good under jackson). To taking the next step.

It also has a lot to do with just a team growing with each other over time. They were extremely young rookies/first year or two players under Mark. While Kerr seems to add his own twist.

A ton of GSW offense is free lancing. With Green being dynamic and a ton of shooters around him.

[dakomish23]

It isn't completely crazy to think that Ainge would give up the New Jersey pick for Melo, or that Melo would go to Boston.

It is crazy to assume you're going to just draft a future HOF player. The draft isn't a goldmine. It's a mine field.

[ibraheim718]

There is no way on God's green earth that gsw wins a chip with Mark Jackson coaching them. Sorry.

[GONYK]

lets be serious for a second. This Kerr being this offensive genius needs to stop. The warriors have Curry and Klay two of the best shot makers in the entire NBA. There range is unlimited. Some of the shots where Klay was coming off a pin down screen we run the exact same play for AA. The difference is Klay is lethal and has arguably the quickest release in the game.

Curry makes some ridiculous shots as well.

Also they have a point forward that sometimes plays point center allowing the 4 small guys to run around and shoot while he draws the big man out of the paint.

Personel wins in the NBA.

Mark Jackson says hello.

A young team just growing into their individual primes after three seasons of building chesion wavez back with a singular shiny ring on each of their fingers

Nah. Jackson actively made that team worse with his ISO nonsense on offense.

[ibraheim718]

lets be serious for a second. This Kerr being this offensive genius needs to stop. The warriors have Curry and Klay two of the best shot makers in the entire NBA. There range is unlimited. Some of the shots where Klay was coming off a pin down screen we run the exact same play for AA. The difference is Klay is lethal and has arguably the quickest release in the game.

Curry makes some ridiculous shots as well.

Also they have a point forward that sometimes plays point center allowing the 4 small guys to run around and shoot while he draws the big man out of the paint.

Personel wins in the NBA.

Mark Jackson says hello.

Agreed to an extent. Not saying coaches don't have an impact. I wasn't trying to imply that.

However Draymond Green says hello even more. His development and skillset has taken that team to the next level. Because lets be honest Curry and Klay aren't crazy playmakers (in terms of setting up there teammates). They are more shot makers. Green with his ability to defense, start the break, get his shooters the ball in positions they can shoot as changed that team from being really good (which they still were good under jackson). To taking the next step.

It also has a lot to do with just a team growing with each other over time. They were extremely young rookies/first year or two players under Mark. While Kerr seems to add his own twist.

A ton of GSW offense is free lancing. With Green being dynamic and a ton of shooters around him.

It was Kerr who decided to use green differently.

[Carl_Karlson]

do we have any set plays?

[El Poochio]

There is no way on God's green earth that gsw wins a chip with Mark Jackson coaching them. Sorry.

Yeah those players all developing to that level in just one season does not seem very realistic

[R-DAWG]

Ainge has been trying for every star with no luck. Melo is only 31.

This will be Melo's third straight year without the playoffs.

Adds up to some fairly sane motivations on all sides. Maybe Ainge has no interest in Melo for a top 5 pick. But doesn't seem that far-fetched. He wants to make a run at it.

Melo going to Boston is least improbable part of it. Good team and playoffs.

The Melo camp will be making a lot of noise this summer. You can take that to the bank.

Well, that is the only way Melo can be traded, so we'll see. I personally think winning 35-38 games this season will be fine for both Melo and the FO.

I look forward to "The Melo camp" trying to find a big market contender who has enough picks and young players to make it worth our while, while also matching Melo's salary and still having enough talent left over to still be contenders.

Hell, I would just like to know which big market contenders would have all that, and still feel they need 31 yr old Melo.

Chicago Bulls. Especially if they get a pick in the 11-15 range from Sac.

Mirotic or Portis, SAC pick, Bulls pick in '16, '17 and '19 (stepin rule not in effect if Chi makes the pick in '16 and then trades rights to NY).

NY might have to take back Rose in the deal, that's no issue if were rebuilding and he's expiring.

[GONYK]

This "Melo and KP are on different career arcs" is some of the laziest rationalization ever.

Melo makes the game easier for KP and is teaching him how to be an alpha in this game. You want KP to develop, you keep him around that as long as he can.

[Knicks_Fan2]

lets be serious for a second. This Kerr being this offensive genius needs to stop. The warriors have Curry and Klay two of the best shot makers in the entire NBA. There range is unlimited. Some of the shots where Klay was coming off a pin down screen we run the exact same play for AA. The difference is Klay is lethal and has arguably the quickest release in the game.

Curry makes some ridiculous shots as well.

Also they have a point forward that sometimes plays point center allowing the 4 small guys to run around and shoot while he draws the big man out of the paint.

Personel wins in the NBA.

If you watch their offensive sets and actually think all they are doing is running basic pin downs and, I guess pnrs(?), you clearly aren't watching them properly. That team is so well coached and runs so many different sets each game which is the direct byproduct of coaching. Within one offseason after Jackson left, they went from a team that passed the ball the least amount of times to the most. Do you think that is just talent?

[mpharris36]

Players win though. If you put prime shaq and kobe vs the warriors they would beat the warriors because the warrriors would have no one to stop shaq down low.

So the triangle would win but at the end of the day it doesn't matter what the coach or triangle is. If you have someone as dominant as Shaq you have the best chance of winning. Now coaching obviously can and does help. But all the great coaches need great players.

[NY2TheBay]

Mark Jackson not only didnt draw up plays in huddles but his substitute patterns were high school level.

He is a great motivational speaker and has catchy phrases when calling games. He isnt lead assistant material imo.

But dray came into his own when Kerr took over and he specifically thanked Jackson for showing him how to be a pro. Take that for whats its worth.

[Capn'O]

All this stress. I got stress in my real life too. Need a hot toddy.

[R-DAWG]

They paid a 1st to dump Zeller, not to trade Jack to BKN. Thats what they paid. They also got rid of Jack in the deal. But they paid to dump Zeller.

You are not getting that type of deal this summer or the next.

Did GSW liquidate win now assets? Nope. They actually moved two picks to get their finals MVP in FA.

Guess what BOS is trying to do with these picks? Make a trade for a stud. But you want to dump a stud for no reason than just to pigeon hole yourself to one method of roster construction.

When you say the right way, it means you've learned the wrong things about team building.

They gave up a pick to move Jarret Jack, who was flipped to Brooklyn for Marcus Thornton. Jack made $6.4 million and Zeller like $1.2. They needed to move Jack.

2nd. I want to move Melo because Melo and KP are on different career archs. The reality is by the time we can put a contender around Melo his best days will be behind him. Sometimes you have to look to the future. Like the Mets did when they moved Beltran and Dicky for young pieces. The window to build a winner around Melo in NYC is basically closed. Right now he's not good enough to take a team to the playoffs.

1st

It was a 3 team deal. Not multiple transactions.

http://nesn.com/2014/07/celtics-complete-three-team-trade-add-marcus-thornton-tyler-zeller-draft-pick/

2nd

You know who else had different career arcs? Robinson and Duncan. Then Duncan and Kawhi.

3rd

NO ONE is bringing this team with this coach and roster to the playoffs. No one. Not one person in the NBA can carry their team every night with zero help and terrible coaching.

We had multiple top 10 picks in the 2000's. Why don't the build through the draft guys ever bring that up? Guess what. A frontcourt of Gallo Frye and Hill aren't winning 30 games in this league. The only truly successful season we've had in 15 years was on the back of a guy we trade for and a FA.

Getting rid of Melo will only spiral this team into oblivion for another 5+ years. And I bet after that we trade picks to try to find someone who is even close to this back end of his prime Melo.

Yes, I know it was a 3 team deal. Cleveland needed to move Jack's salary and Boston was happy to flip the extra year of Jack for an expiring in Thronton

Also, don't insult Melo by comparing him to Dunacn. Not fair to Melo.

I can't force you to see reality. This team, with or without Melo, stinks.