PG: FJU Needs To Be Shut Down

[F N 11]

Every team's bench guard can start for us.

[Knicksfan1992]

Honestly the only thing that makes me less mad/harsh about Grant is that THard has pretty much 1 foot out of the league at this point and has zero trade value. Grant still might have a little value left or could snap out of this.

Another thing is that whenever we play to Grant's strength, which is PnR, he has succeeded.

His best games have come when he's allowed to run the high PnR

Yeah but, there are a lot of times he's very indecisive in that situation too. He's just very indecisive in general and it's the worst position to be indecisive at. I'd be okay if his struggles were just him forcing things and making mistakes like Mudiay's are because at least he's trying to do things. Grant's struggles come from him mentally being shook after 1 bad play and not knowing what to do and wasting precious time every possession trying to decide what to do. That's very hard to coach up because that's just having instincts. It just doesn't seem that Grant has good instincts at this level. He doesn't know when to shoot, pass, or attack consistently and when he does do those things and screws up he goes into a shell like a turtle scared to fuq up again.

[thebuzzardman]

every time the knicks lose a bunch of games we're trading melo. except we're not. i'm not even commenting on what the best thing to do is for the future or not. but it's just not happening. not this year.

Every 2nd loss in a row, we need to do a full rebuild, send Grant to the D-League, and fire everyone.

Every 2nd win in a row, we are a playoff team, Melo is elite again, and there is a hidden genius in every move

All the facts really do seem to point to that nobody of any importance in NY really has put any serious weight on this season. We've signed better players, but not great ones, and we have performed accordingly.

If we double our win total from last season, I think everyone from Phil on down will consider that a success.

Except this is a team that is 3-7 in it's last 10 games and a couple of those wins were less than impressive.

There were thoughts the team turned the corner, instead it has regressed hard. That is bad coaching.

[Knicksfan1992]

Weirdest thing is during pre season Grant would almost attack too much... Who knows what the deal is or what the coaches or management tell him but, it just hasn't clicked yet.

[GONYK]

Honestly the only thing that makes me less mad/harsh about Grant is that THard has pretty much 1 foot out of the league at this point and has zero trade value. Grant still might have a little value left or could snap out of this.

Another thing is that whenever we play to Grant's strength, which is PnR, he has succeeded.

His best games have come when he's allowed to run the high PnR

Yeah but, there are a lot of times he's very indecisive in that situation too. He's just very indecisive in general and it's the worst position to be indecisive at. I'd be okay if his struggles were just him forcing things and making mistakes like Mudiay's are because at least he's trying to do things. Grant's struggles come from him mentally being shook after 1 bad play and not knowing what to do and wasting precious time every possession trying to decide what to do. That's very hard to coach up because that's just having instincts. It just doesn't seem that Grant has good instincts at this level. He doesn't know when to shoot, pass, or attack consistently and when he does do those things and screws up he goes into a shell like a turtle scared to fuq up again.

Not really arguing against that. I've seen him waste 10 secs just telegraphing an entry pass more times than I can count.

I think he knows how to play this game, he's just too tentative in the offense. He thinks too much because it is still not natural to him.

[thebuzzardman]

Honestly the only thing that makes me less mad/harsh about Grant is that THard has pretty much 1 foot out of the league at this point and has zero trade value. Grant still might have a little value left or could snap out of this.

Another thing is that whenever we play to Grant's strength, which is PnR, he has succeeded.

His best games have come when he's allowed to run the high PnR

i forget what game it was.....maybe it was boston last time. but there was one game where they were constantly screening for him at the start of every possession and it worked fantastically. but we never seem to repeat what works.

Complete the word puzzle below for the reason for this

B_D C_AC_I_G

[GONYK]

every time the knicks lose a bunch of games we're trading melo. except we're not. i'm not even commenting on what the best thing to do is for the future or not. but it's just not happening. not this year.

Every 2nd loss in a row, we need to do a full rebuild, send Grant to the D-League, and fire everyone.

Every 2nd win in a row, we are a playoff team, Melo is elite again, and there is a hidden genius in every move

All the facts really do seem to point to that nobody of any importance in NY really has put any serious weight on this season. We've signed better players, but not great ones, and we have performed accordingly.

If we double our win total from last season, I think everyone from Phil on down will consider that a success.

Except this is a team that is 3-7 in it's last 10 games and a couple of those wins were less than impressive.

There were thoughts the team turned the corner, instead it has regressed hard. That is bad coaching.

It's a lot of bad things.

But coaching isn't responsible for AA falling off of a cliff, for having no real backcourt, or for our best PG (Jose) getting injured, Melo getting injured, KP getting sick, injured, and generally hitting a wall, etc...

Coaching is a factor for sure, but us just being not that good is another one.

I think we are right in line with what we are supposed to be, give or take a few games.

Having Pop or Carlisle wouldn't make this team a 50+ win roster either. Especially if they have to run the Triangle.

[wang000hk]

We are really throwing Grant out the window after only half of a rookie season? Jesus.

He's getting outplayed by Sasha now,that's how bad he really is

I still dont get how some fans keep defending him using rookie excuse

If he had potential to be good,he should have been getting the starting job already
Fact is that he isn't even a NBA player at this point and should spend some time in d-league
Gallo starts despite not being a true PG because he actually plays like a NBA player,Grant isn't

I'm not counting the games in which he padded his stats in garbage time,he only has 1 good game all season long

Keep defending the rookie,he's one of the reasons why the bench always blew the lead in 4th quarter
and all the Knicks fan keep crying about **** guard rotation
He's even worse than Jose and that's saying something

Heck,I think Phil didn't re-sign Shved because he thought Grant's ready to contribute as he spent 5 years in college
But no,he is wrong,he made a big mistake in not re-signing Shved

It's always everybody else's fault but Grant's for his bad play. I've never seen so many excuses made for a single player in my entire life. Yeah, Grant is a rookie, but he's an old rookie. He was a 5 year college player who played for a good program and played in big games. He's not some player that's coming straight out of high school. He should've been way more NBA ready than this.

Knicks fans tend to overrate their rookies,Grant is no different here
Even KP gets overrated here a bit,but at least he plays like a top rookie and had several really strong games

Grant struggles to shoot and there's nothing positive I saw from other bad shooting PGs in him
Does he have elite speed like Rose,Wall,Parker? No
Does he have elite court vision like Rondo,Rubio,Evans? No
Does he have elite/strong defense like Bradley,Hill? No

40y/o Andre Miller could run the point on this team better than Grant at this point

[thebuzzardman]

Every 2nd loss in a row, we need to do a full rebuild, send Grant to the D-League, and fire everyone.

Every 2nd win in a row, we are a playoff team, Melo is elite again, and there is a hidden genius in every move

All the facts really do seem to point to that nobody of any importance in NY really has put any serious weight on this season. We've signed better players, but not great ones, and we have performed accordingly.

If we double our win total from last season, I think everyone from Phil on down will consider that a success.

Except this is a team that is 3-7 in it's last 10 games and a couple of those wins were less than impressive.

There were thoughts the team turned the corner, instead it has regressed hard. That is bad coaching.

It's a lot of bad things.

But coaching isn't responsible for AA falling off of a cliff, for having no real backcourt, or for our best PG (Jose) getting injured, Melo getting injured, KP getting sick, injured, and generally hitting a wall, etc...

Coaching is a factor for sure, but us just being not that good is another one.

I think we are right in line with what we are supposed to be, give or take a few games.

More like take, and probably 5-7 games. Fisher is a net negative as a coach. Competent coach, Knicks are a couple of games over .500.

I know the team isn't that good, but an NBA team with a superstar, a high pick and 4-5 serviceable/borderline good players should be at .500. Knicks are 5 games under, could have dropped a couple more, and are fading fast.

I hate to be one of those posters who comes across as being more interested in being right than seeing the Knicks do well, but we can revisit this conversation 7 games after the all-star break when the Knicks are 10 games below .500.

Melo got hurt by the ref and Fisher is too incompetent to make up the difference.

[thebuzzardman]

He's getting outplayed by Sasha now,that's how bad he really is

I still dont get how some fans keep defending him using rookie excuse

If he had potential to be good,he should have been getting the starting job already
Fact is that he isn't even a NBA player at this point and should spend some time in d-league
Gallo starts despite not being a true PG because he actually plays like a NBA player,Grant isn't

I'm not counting the games in which he padded his stats in garbage time,he only has 1 good game all season long

Keep defending the rookie,he's one of the reasons why the bench always blew the lead in 4th quarter
and all the Knicks fan keep crying about **** guard rotation
He's even worse than Jose and that's saying something

Heck,I think Phil didn't re-sign Shved because he thought Grant's ready to contribute as he spent 5 years in college
But no,he is wrong,he made a big mistake in not re-signing Shved

It's always everybody else's fault but Grant's for his bad play. I've never seen so many excuses made for a single player in my entire life. Yeah, Grant is a rookie, but he's an old rookie. He was a 5 year college player who played for a good program and played in big games. He's not some player that's coming straight out of high school. He should've been way more NBA ready than this.

Knicks fans tend to overrate their rookies,Grant is no different here
Even KP gets overrated here a bit,but at least he plays like a top rookie and had several really strong games

Grant struggles to shoot and there's nothing positive I saw from other bad shooting PGs in him
Does he have elite speed like Rose,Wall,Parker? No
Does he have elite court vision like Rondo,Rubio,Evans? No
Does he have elite/strong defense like Bradley,Hill? No

40y/o Andre Miller could run the point on this team better than Grant at this point

This is the unfortunate truth right here

[GONYK]

Except this is a team that is 3-7 in it's last 10 games and a couple of those wins were less than impressive.

There were thoughts the team turned the corner, instead it has regressed hard. That is bad coaching.

It's a lot of bad things.

But coaching isn't responsible for AA falling off of a cliff, for having no real backcourt, or for our best PG (Jose) getting injured, Melo getting injured, KP getting sick, injured, and generally hitting a wall, etc...

Coaching is a factor for sure, but us just being not that good is another one.

I think we are right in line with what we are supposed to be, give or take a few games.

More like take, and probably 5-7 games. Fisher is a net negative as a coach. Competent coach, Knicks are a couple of games over .500.

I know the team isn't that good, but an NBA team with a superstar, a high pick and 4-5 serviceable/borderline good players should be at .500. Knicks are 5 games under, could have dropped a couple more, and are fading fast.

I hate to be one of those posters who comes across as being more interested in being right than seeing the Knicks do well, but we can revisit this conversation 7 games after the all-star break when the Knicks are 10 games below .500.

Melo got hurt by the ref and Fisher is too incompetent to make up the difference.

Too incompetent to make up with difference with who exactly?

An inconsistent DWill? An inconsistent Afflalo? An incapable KP? No penetration whatsoever?

We were an Afflalo rim out away from taking down OKC a week ago.

Some of it is Fisher's fault for sure, but there is also a lot of it that falls on the general strength of the roster.

I think people get frustrated with Fisher because he is trading what works right now for what he thinks is best long-term. He coaches and speaks to what he eventually wants, not what is happening right now.

I don't think right now means much to Phil or Fisher. I could be wrong, and if I am, Fisher won't be the coach next season.

I suspect he will be though.

[wang000hk]

Weirdest thing is during pre season Grant would almost attack too much... Who knows what the deal is or what the coaches or management tell him but, it just hasn't clicked yet.

Preseason is meaningless,the competition is entirely different

No excuse for Grant right there,he always plays with KOQ,Gallo,D-Will off the bench just like the preseason
The only difference is Lance playing instead of Early now

You can't be telling me Early is the reason Grant doesn't attack as much right now

[Johnny Hoops]

We desperately need Calderon back.

LOL - yeah I mean folks talk about we can't without Melo and here we go 0-4 without Jose and last night Gallo gets torched for 20-8 by I-Thomas while he shoots 0-4 from the field and Grant goes scoreless in a HUGE home game.

Bottom line --- this roster that many say is on-par or better than the Celtics just plain isn't.

[Johnny Hoops]

We have to make a trade for a pg if we are truly trying to make the playoffs this season.


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But at what expense?

[NoLayupRule]

this game was a disgrace and as upsetting to watch as just about any recently

however the more I thought about it the less upset I got

in truth the Celtics did to us what we've done to a lot of teams this year


their starters played well enough and their bench played as well as the starters at times
we however struggled with our bench basically and had to spread the starters around all game to strengthen the weak 2nd unit


this team, ours, lacks starter talent at the guard positions
if one of our main guys is off, out or in foul trouble then that doubles the pressure on the bench
when we play vs a good 2nd unit team our 2nd unit is exposed as thin. when we play vs a weaker 2nd unit like Sac or someone our bench looks great

its not unsurmountable at all
just frustrating


Grant really sucked last night as did Williams as did KP
rookies you gotta expect that of some nights though Grant really needs to step it up soon

[Johnny Hoops]

For me I can see the signs of a loss very early in games and it always revolves around the other teams ability to score.

If they are getting points easily and if they are converting 1, 2, 3 and 4 times in a row offensively --- it basically means we aren't bringing the proper effort or we don't have an ability to guard the other team.

If you go look at early 4th quarter of this game -- we were consistently getting buckets but every time down at the other end we couldn't stop the Celtics -- over and over again -- that just deflates everyone -- the team, the crowd and folks watching at home.

[Johnny Hoops]

there was absolutely no triangle today. It was iso Melo or iso AA. did we have a player with more than 3 assists?

Calderon isn't good at all but at least there seems to be a bit more ball movement with him in there than with Gallo.

Melo has become a statue --- he's not moving and he's not defending. Is he hurt -- I don't think so. Is he out of shape because he hasn't been going hard in practice because of the ankle - maybe but he's much less active in his movements and he's spending a lot of time playing iso ball when he has the ball inside the arc.

[Johnny Hoops]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/HerringWSJ/status/694715248985706497[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/HerringWSJ/status/694716732083191809[/tweet]

Did this all start the last time we beat the Celtics is that when Melo stepped on the officials foot or was that soon after.

It feels like we were on our HIGH right after Celtic game and then POOF season gone.

[wang000hk]

We have to make a trade for a pg if we are truly trying to make the playoffs this season.


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But at what expense?

The entire team sans KP,Melo,Rolo

I dont want to give up Lance and Gallo but they can be useful off the bench for some playoff teams

[K_ick_God]

The 3-way with Clips would be Melo's and Danny's preference but I don't think Clips will deal Blake for Melo. Knicks could take back a bad Boston contract to help try to seal it with Stunned Ainge, who would have to think he could play Crowder and Melo together.

Not sure Ainge bites, but not crazy to think he could. On Melo, I think some of you are way too sure he wants New York or a big market at all costs. I strongly disagree lol. He's losing and has no shot at the playoffs -- he would take an out honestly. Just to a good team to finish this contract with. Over staying in NY out of the playoffs? Yeah, definitely yes.

there is no way he goes to boston. none. zero. forget about the city even. they're not gonna be a contender. he's not even healthy to trade at the moment even if he wanted to go.

I just disagree. A lot. There's a vast difference between missing the playoffs 3 years and at least qualifying for the playoffs on a good young team that you can play the next couple years with ... again in the playoffs. I think you guys may be answering based on a hatred for Boston.