PG: FJU Needs To Be Shut Down

[Johnny Hoops]

Boston is also a better run organization with better players OVERALL

They're a team full of throwaways and castaways. There's not one superstar type player on that team that has real trade value. The most valuable thing Boston has is draft picks from Brooklyn. They have nothing even close to the value of Melo or Porzingis.

2 players don't make a TEAM.

Keep talking Greenie because you are correct. Plus most all their assets are young/younger -- franchise is NOT dependent on whether or not Melo's knees are cranky on game day.

[GONYK]

They're a team full of throwaways and castaways. There's not one superstar type player on that team that has real trade value. The most valuable thing Boston has is draft picks from Brooklyn. They have nothing even close to the value of Melo or Porzingis.

2 players don't make a TEAM.

Keep talking Greenie because you are correct. Plus most all their assets are young/younger -- franchise is NOT dependent on whether or not Melo's knees are cranky on game day.

Their assets couldn't even get them Frank Kaminsky and they will be knocked out of the 1st round again.

They are better than us today, but unless they knock that Brooklyn pick out of the park, I'm not seeing a whole lot to get excited about.

[Fury]

He can run the pick and roll

what are you looking at to suggest this? I am not trying to be a-hole either. Just curious do you have anything to back this up.

Stats show galloway is pretty much in the 50% in the entire league (as a ball handler) in running the P&R which includes all positions so that isn't very good.

For example Jose Calderon is in the 73rd percentile. Langston Galloway is in the 56th percentile. Believe it or not Dwill is our best (very small sample size) with Calderon being #2.

Langston is a distance 3 which goes to show you we really don't have a great option. Melo is actually pretty poor as a pick and roll ball handler according to the stats this year.

He's 56%. Either way, it's not a strong enough sample size. They barely do it with him. He can make a damn pick and pop pass, and he's more of a threat to get into the paint than Calderon or anyone else on the roster other than Derrick Williams.

[Johnny Hoops]

read the wiretap. the celtics want to trade for dwight howard. they're not in a great position.

And the sad thing is, they might not even be successful in getting him

we can laugh but outside of KP -- they have everything we need/want.

That includes young assets, oodles of draft picks and CAP space to work with.

Is Boston a destination city - I don't think so but we have been chasing the combination of picks/cap space for years.

We have to wait until next year to get a pick (1 pick) meanwhile Boston is sitting on a boatload. Who knows how that pans out but don't sit here and say we don't want that because that is all this board has talked about for 10 years --- getting to a point where we have assets, cap space and a chance to make something special happen.

This board would crash if Celtics and Knicks could exchange rosters/assets --- save for the Great Latvian Unicorn.

[mpharris36]

He's 56%. Either way, it's not a strong enough sample size. They barely do it with him. He can make a damn pick and pop pass, and he's more of a threat to get into the paint than Calderon or anyone else on the roster other than Derrick Williams.

I like galloway as a player he just isn't a facilitator and there isn't anything wrong with that. Being in the 56th percentile of the entire league for a guard isn't good. Like I said even a poor player with no explosion calderon is around the 75th percentile.

You are right the sample size is low but that could be due to a lot of factors. Galloway may not be capable of exploding into the paint and creating.

He is horrendous on the fast break. The head down throw up a crazy shot with 3 defenders around him is a really poor decisions and he is good for 1 or 2 of those a game.

[CelticsPride18]

2 players don't make a TEAM.

Keep talking Greenie because you are correct. Plus most all their assets are young/younger -- franchise is NOT dependent on whether or not Melo's knees are cranky on game day.

Their assets couldn't even get them Frank Kaminsky and they will be knocked out of the 1st round again.

They are better than us today, but unless they knock that Brooklyn pick out of the park, I'm not seeing a whole lot to get excited about.

Thats incorrect Celtics wanted Winslow not Kaminsky. A lot executives criticize the Hornets for not taking that deal or drafting Winslow. It wasn't the assets it was Hornets stupidity.

[GONYK]

read the wiretap. the celtics want to trade for dwight howard. they're not in a great position.

And the sad thing is, they might not even be successful in getting him

we can laugh but outside of KP -- they have everything we need/want.

That includes young assets, oodles of draft picks and CAP space to work with.

Is Boston a destination city - I don't think so but we have been chasing the combination of picks/cap space for years.

We have to wait until next year to get a pick (1 pick) meanwhile Boston is sitting on a boatload. Who knows how that pans out but don't sit here and say we don't want that because that is all this board has talked about for 10 years --- getting to a point where we have assets, cap space and a chance to make something special happen.

This board would crash if Celtics and Knicks could exchange rosters/assets --- save for the Great Latvian Unicorn.

A player like KP is really all that matters. All that other stuff is window dressing without a legit star.

[mpharris36]

Thats incorrect Celtics wanted Winslow not Kaminsky. A lot executives criticize the Hornets for not taking that deal or drafting Winslow. It wasn't the assets it was Hornets stupidity.

or its late 1st round picks wont get your into the lottery because in the NBA quality is always better than quantity.

[j4remi]

what are you looking at to suggest this? I am not trying to be a-hole either. Just curious do you have anything to back this up.

Stats show galloway is pretty much in the 50% in the entire league (as a ball handler) in running the P&R which includes all positions so that isn't very good.

For example Jose Calderon is in the 73rd percentile. Langston Galloway is in the 56th percentile. Believe it or not Dwill is our best (very small sample size) with Calderon being #2.

Langston is a distance 3 which goes to show you we really don't have a great option. Melo is actually pretty poor as a pick and roll ball handler according to the stats this year.

Any way to check his efficacy with specific player groups? If Galloway is running PnR with the likes of Seraphin and Oquinn rather than RoLo and KP all game, that'd skew the numbers pretty heavily.

[GONYK]

Keep talking Greenie because you are correct. Plus most all their assets are young/younger -- franchise is NOT dependent on whether or not Melo's knees are cranky on game day.

Their assets couldn't even get them Frank Kaminsky and they will be knocked out of the 1st round again.

They are better than us today, but unless they knock that Brooklyn pick out of the park, I'm not seeing a whole lot to get excited about.

Thats incorrect Celtics wanted Winslow not Kaminsky. A lot executives criticize the Hornets for not taking that deal or drafting Winslow. It wasn't the assets it was Hornets stupidity.

Wanting Winslow doesn't really make it that much better though. If it costs that much to move up 7 spots to get a Justise Winslow, and still not getting a deal, then I question the value of the "assets" league wide. Especially since Ainge was peddling his wares from the Knicks all the way to Charlotte and no one bit.

Of course, value is relative and all trades are contextual, but Boston hasn't been able to to turn their stockpile into an offer someone can't refuse.

[mpharris36]

what are you looking at to suggest this? I am not trying to be a-hole either. Just curious do you have anything to back this up.

Stats show galloway is pretty much in the 50% in the entire league (as a ball handler) in running the P&R which includes all positions so that isn't very good.

For example Jose Calderon is in the 73rd percentile. Langston Galloway is in the 56th percentile. Believe it or not Dwill is our best (very small sample size) with Calderon being #2.

Langston is a distance 3 which goes to show you we really don't have a great option. Melo is actually pretty poor as a pick and roll ball handler according to the stats this year.

Any way to check his efficacy with specific player groups? If Galloway is running PnR with the likes of Seraphin and Oquinn rather than RoLo and KP all game, that'd skew the numbers pretty heavily.

Absolutely that would probably have an impact. I think KP plays a lot with the second unit though so I don't know entirely as skewed those stats are.

I think Gallo just doesn't have the handle or creativity enough to consistently be successful in the P&R. He probably comes off the screen looking for his jump shot rather than looking for an easy bucket which is why he is more of an off guard.

[CelticsPride18]

Thats incorrect Celtics wanted Winslow not Kaminsky. A lot executives criticize the Hornets for not taking that deal or drafting Winslow. It wasn't the assets it was Hornets stupidity.

or its late 1st round picks wont get your into the lottery because in the NBA quality is always better than quantity.

They were mid-round picks(15,16)and the 2018 Nets pick a lot if teams would take that deal over Kaminsky.

[mpharris36]

Wanting Winslow doesn't really make it that much better though. If it costs that much to move up 7 spots to get a Justise Winslow, and still not getting a deal, then I question the value of the "assets" league wide. Especially since Ainge was peddling his wares from the Knicks all the way to Charlotte and no one bit.

Of course, value is relative and all trades are contextual, but Boston hasn't been able to to turn their stockpile into an offer someone can't refuse.

because teams aren't jumping at the chance to draft the terry rozier and rj hunters of the world.

[j4remi]

Absolutely that would probably have an impact. I think KP plays a lot with the second unit though so I don't know entirely as skewed those stats are.

I think Gallo just doesn't have the handle or creativity enough to consistently be successful in the P&R. He probably comes off the screen looking for his jump shot rather than looking for an easy bucket which is why he is more of an off guard.

By the time KP comes in Grant is usually the main PnR ball handler. That's why I want actual data. I can't recall Galloway being the pick and role man often enough to make actual judgements and I'd rather wait to watch for it a few games than speculate. If you asked me which PG is most likely to pull up for their own shot off a screen for instance, my first guess is Jose; that's one of his more efficient looks.

[K_ick_God]

You're making it seem like Boston made some bold moves. After we put the nail in their coffin, they offloaded a pair of near-40 yr olds who were on the brink of retirement at premium value. Not much courage in that. It's a no-brainer at that point.

I'm sure we would have "pivoted" away from Amare as well if someone offered us a bunch of 1st rounders for him.

If someone wants to offer us a bunch of lotto picks and youth for Melo, I'm all ears. That offer isn't coming though.

That's fair. Boston got offered a no-brainer deal. Well, except for the fact that they did cash in some ability to win now. Some teams would have kept them together, sort of the way Kobe has stayed.

But the issue I have with what you're saying is that it has to be a great deal or no deal. Well Melo can eventually cause us issues with building around KP. That has a cost, and so getting a late 1st and some young player might be a lot better than losing the value of KP's rookie deal.

You guys might be right though -- maybe his value is not there in a trade. With his knee. But he's playing and producing. Knee can't be too bad. As far as Melo saying no to any deal, or to only 1 or 2 teams, I just really disagree. He doesn't love NY enough to stay despite no playoff basketball.

I really don't understand how Melo impedes KP in any way. Melo only has 2-3 yrs left (3rd year is a player option). KP will either be a franchise player at that point, with Melo being a great PP type secondary, or Melo will be winding down on the contract anyway and we can pivot then. The exploding cap mitigates a lot of the risk.

Also, people conflate capspace with good players. They are not the same thing, and rarely equal a player of Melo's talent.

And Melo loved NY enough to stay away from his clearest shot at winning, which was Chicago with Thibs. He also loved it enough to resist smaller markets who were better positioned like Houston and Dallas. There is absolutely no reason to go to a smaller market who is nothing more than a treadmill team. He can be on a treadmill team, at worst, in NY.

I think Melo stayed because he enjoys being a Knick *and* we beat Chicago's offer by a lot.

[Johnny Hoops]

Regardless of what deals Celtics have made or have tried to make and failed -- they still have legitimate assets to get into the conversations and they still have legitimate picks to get lucky with --- they have a chance.

[K_ick_God]

One thing we can all agree on -- Ainge's talent evaluation is not as good as advertised. Marcus Smart sucks. Winslow is not a must-have. Bradley ain't all that good either.

[mpharris36]

Absolutely that would probably have an impact. I think KP plays a lot with the second unit though so I don't know entirely as skewed those stats are.

I think Gallo just doesn't have the handle or creativity enough to consistently be successful in the P&R. He probably comes off the screen looking for his jump shot rather than looking for an easy bucket which is why he is more of an off guard.

By the time KP comes in Grant is usually the main PnR ball handler. That's why I want actual data. I can't recall Galloway being the pick and role man often enough to make actual judgements and I'd rather wait to watch for it a few games than speculate. If you asked me which PG is most likely to pull up for their own shot off a screen for instance, my first guess is Jose; that's one of his more efficient looks.

Its probably why probably why Jose has decent %'s since his mid range pull up is one of his most efficient shots. I mean we have got a 4 game sample size with gallo as the starter and nothing has stood out to me so far.

Gallo is a good role player. He can be good minutes on a good team. As a facilitator though, I pretty much have seen what I need to see. Offense looks really stagnant with him in there. Thats not his fault he just shouldn't be put in that role. Lead guard upgrade is a clear need.

[mpharris36]

Regardless of what deals Celtics have made or have tried to make and failed -- they still have legitimate assets to get into the conversations and they still have legitimate picks to get lucky with --- they have a chance.

the nets picks are the true assets. Because they have top 5-10 ability. All the others "assets" are fluff.

If they want to get in the Horford sweepstakes or someone along those lines. That will be the price to pay. Not middling 1st rounders.

[GONYK]

That's fair. Boston got offered a no-brainer deal. Well, except for the fact that they did cash in some ability to win now. Some teams would have kept them together, sort of the way Kobe has stayed.

But the issue I have with what you're saying is that it has to be a great deal or no deal. Well Melo can eventually cause us issues with building around KP. That has a cost, and so getting a late 1st and some young player might be a lot better than losing the value of KP's rookie deal.

You guys might be right though -- maybe his value is not there in a trade. With his knee. But he's playing and producing. Knee can't be too bad. As far as Melo saying no to any deal, or to only 1 or 2 teams, I just really disagree. He doesn't love NY enough to stay despite no playoff basketball.

I really don't understand how Melo impedes KP in any way. Melo only has 2-3 yrs left (3rd year is a player option). KP will either be a franchise player at that point, with Melo being a great PP type secondary, or Melo will be winding down on the contract anyway and we can pivot then. The exploding cap mitigates a lot of the risk.

Also, people conflate capspace with good players. They are not the same thing, and rarely equal a player of Melo's talent.

And Melo loved NY enough to stay away from his clearest shot at winning, which was Chicago with Thibs. He also loved it enough to resist smaller markets who were better positioned like Houston and Dallas. There is absolutely no reason to go to a smaller market who is nothing more than a treadmill team. He can be on a treadmill team, at worst, in NY.

I think Melo stayed because he enjoys being a Knick *and* we beat Chicago's offer by a lot.

What about LA, Houston, and Dallas?