Trade Deadline Countdown Pre-Febuary Deadline

[WeekapaugGroove]

If the suns could land the NY pick from the raps for keif and tucker it would be awesome. And is a decent win now move for the rap. Get it done mcd

[jcsunsfan]

Toronto doesn't actually own the rights to that pick, they have the right to swap their pick for that pick. It would be interesting to see the specifics. The question would be whether Toronto has the rights to swap ANY first round pick with the Knicks pick, or if its specifically the Toronto pick for the Knicks pick. If it is the latter, then it would make no sense for Toronto to trade their 2016 pick without the swap rights. The swap rights are useless without owning the pick, and the swap rights make the pick more valuable.

If it is ANY pick, then they could, theoretically, trade the swap rights (to the Suns say) and the Suns could swap the Cleveland pick for the Knicks pick. Or Toronto could trade their own pick and obtain ANOTHER pick, say the Cleveland pick, and use it to swap.

[Jdiddy701]

I am looking at who plays for Toronto and there's nothing that makes sense. Nobody worth trading for.. Has to be for draft picks if anything.


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[King4Day]

The only reason I'm responding is because I never said Warren, Booker, and your 1st for Okafor was a good deal. I actually think that's awful for you guys. My deal was the Laker pick back to you guys with Pat Pat for Booker and Kieff. Nothing trollish at all. However, on the other hand we have Donald_Trade...

The issue with the trade is, the Suns will be looking to accumulate assets. We make picks to draft guys like Booker. So trading him for an unknown in the (possible) 4th pick in this years draft defeats the purpose of rebuilding. Looking at the trade idea as a whole, the Suns gets seriously hosed.

[letsgosuns]

The Raptors are in win now mode as the current number 2 seed in the East. The Knicks pick is a good asset but realistically, the Knicks might make the playoffs. They are currently the 11th seed but the East is bunched so close together that the Knicks are actually only 5.5 games away from being the third seed. So from the Raptors perspective they have to say which do we think is more valuable, getting Markieff and/or Tucker immediately, or holding onto a draft pick that could be a decent lottery pick or fall as low as maybe the 20th pick in the draft. Secondly, no matter where the pick lands, will the player they draft be as good as Markieff. Thirdly, a more important aspect, will the player contribute over the next few years anywhere near what Markieff can contribute during that same time.

[BobbieL]

I would probably take Pat Patt and Toronto's pick for Keiff or Mirza/Tucker

[Jdiddy701]

Raps probably will give up Demarre Carroll??? I don't think he's worth his contract. Only reason I say him if anybody is because he's out for the season.


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[bwgood77]

They probably wouldn't even do that deal if it was for Kieff instead of Mirza. MAYBE they counteroffer with their own pick.

I don't know, Mirza is an upgrade on PatPat and he could fit into their salary structure next year as a FA. Tucker can guard Lebron and shoot, which is why they spent $60 million on Carroll - they obviously value wing defense.

I really think that trade could help them make the finals this year. This draft seems pretty weak and that pick is likely to be 10-14ish. I don't know if they can draft a guy there that will help them in the next 2-3 years before their windows closes.

Ya that pick is off-limits unless an impact youngish player is coming back (tenth now, prolly stay around there +/- 2 slots or so). Kieff's value is too low and PJ is too old to be part of a future. I can see Mirza/PJ bringing back one of our non-NYK picks (either ours or the LAC in 2017), but not a lotto pick. Maybe we add one of our worse prospects like Norman Powell or something

Does that pick have no protection on it? Like you (assuming you are a Toronto fan) have the right to swap unless it ends up a top 3 pick? If they don't put any protection on picks like that I cannot believe the absurdity of doing that for a guy like Bargnani. I know Brooklyn did the same thing but at least they were going for top tier (albeit over the hill) type players. I guess it's a NY thing....people in NY getting greedy thinking they can have it all now while mortgaging their future. Wall Street does it to the rest of America and these GMs do it to themselves (or their teams).

[gaspar]

If the suns could land the NY pick from the raps for keif and tucker it would be awesome. And is a decent win now move for the rap. Get it done mcd

Meh. The chances of drafting a player as good as Keef (or even Tucker) with that NYK's pick are very slim. It's gonna be a 2-player draft. After Simmons and Ingram it doesn't matter if you are drafting 5th or 20th. They all suck.

[mademan]

I don't know, Mirza is an upgrade on PatPat and he could fit into their salary structure next year as a FA. Tucker can guard Lebron and shoot, which is why they spent $60 million on Carroll - they obviously value wing defense.

I really think that trade could help them make the finals this year. This draft seems pretty weak and that pick is likely to be 10-14ish. I don't know if they can draft a guy there that will help them in the next 2-3 years before their windows closes.

Ya that pick is off-limits unless an impact youngish player is coming back (tenth now, prolly stay around there +/- 2 slots or so). Kieff's value is too low and PJ is too old to be part of a future. I can see Mirza/PJ bringing back one of our non-NYK picks (either ours or the LAC in 2017), but not a lotto pick. Maybe we add one of our worse prospects like Norman Powell or something

Does that pick have no protection on it? Like you (assuming you are a Toronto fan) have the right to swap unless it ends up a top 3 pick? If they don't put any protection on picks like that I cannot believe the absurdity of doing that for a guy like Bargnani. I know Brooklyn did the same thing but at least they were going for top tier (albeit over the hill) type players. I guess it's a NY thing....people in NY getting greedy thinking they can have it all now while mortgaging their future. Wall Street does it to the rest of America and these GMs do it to themselves (or their teams).

It's not a swap for us, NYK swapped it with Denver in the Melo trade. We basically get the worse pick between NYK/DEN unprotected. And ya, its pretty crazy that we're gonna get a lotto pick for Bargnani; gotta love that NY management

[mademan]

The Raptors are in win now mode as the current number 2 seed in the East. The Knicks pick is a good asset but realistically, the Knicks might make the playoffs. They are currently the 11th seed but the East is bunched so close together that the Knicks are actually only 5.5 games away from being the third seed. So from the Raptors perspective they have to say which do we think is more valuable, getting Markieff and/or Tucker immediately, or holding onto a draft pick that could be a decent lottery pick or fall as low as maybe the 20th pick in the draft. Secondly, no matter where the pick lands, will the player they draft be as good as Markieff. Thirdly, a more important aspect, will the player contribute over the next few years anywhere near what Markieff can contribute during that same time.

And then there's reasons 4-10 which all land on Markieff regaining form, not being a locker room cancer, not getting into fights/bouts with the law off the court etc...

There's a reason teams usually stay away from headcases. If 7/8 figure salaries cant get you to act professional and work hard (even in less than great environments), very little can. The Z-Bo's and Rodmans are the rare exceptions, not the expectations

[RaptorsLife]

Toronto doesn't actually own the rights to that pick, they have the right to swap their pick for that pick. It would be interesting to see the specifics. The question would be whether Toronto has the rights to swap ANY first round pick with the Knicks pick, or if its specifically the Toronto pick for the Knicks pick. If it is the latter, then it would make no sense for Toronto to trade their 2016 pick without the swap rights. The swap rights are useless without owning the pick, and the swap rights make the pick more valuable.

If it is ANY pick, then they could, theoretically, trade the swap rights (to the Suns say) and the Suns could swap the Cleveland pick for the Knicks pick. Or Toronto could trade their own pick and obtain ANOTHER pick, say the Cleveland pick, and use it to swap.

Knicks are 11th right now nuggets are 7th. And knucks have lost 4 out of 5 games. So it's gonna be lottery pick. It's the worse of the 2

[bwgood77]

Ya that pick is off-limits unless an impact youngish player is coming back (tenth now, prolly stay around there +/- 2 slots or so). Kieff's value is too low and PJ is too old to be part of a future. I can see Mirza/PJ bringing back one of our non-NYK picks (either ours or the LAC in 2017), but not a lotto pick. Maybe we add one of our worse prospects like Norman Powell or something

Does that pick have no protection on it? Like you (assuming you are a Toronto fan) have the right to swap unless it ends up a top 3 pick? If they don't put any protection on picks like that I cannot believe the absurdity of doing that for a guy like Bargnani. I know Brooklyn did the same thing but at least they were going for top tier (albeit over the hill) type players. I guess it's a NY thing....people in NY getting greedy thinking they can have it all now while mortgaging their future. Wall Street does it to the rest of America and these GMs do it to themselves (or their teams).

It's not a swap for us, NYK swapped it with Denver in the Melo trade. We basically get the worse pick between NYK/DEN unprotected. And ya, its pretty crazy that we're gonna get a lotto pick for Bargnani; gotta love that NY management

So obviously your hope is that Denver and NY somehow get super lucky with ping pong balls and draft 1st and 2nd I take it?

[King4Day]

John Gambadoro ‏@Gambo987 · 14m14 minutes ago
Despite his performance last night the Suns still plan on trading Markieff Morris by the trade deadline.

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Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine · 44m44 minutes ago
Toronto, I'm told, also showing interest in Suns' Markieff Morris; PHX widely seen as a LOCK to do at least one deal before Feb. 18 deadline

[NavLDO]

Nobody was given the choice of A B or C here. The **** all hit the fan at once.... and all three turds trades (Dragic,IT,Knight) were pinched off the same loaf. Doesn't diminish the fact that this all was caused by an inexperienced asset-mongering GM who had many here and industry wide scratching their heads....

only time distinguishes the idiot from the visionary.

I mark it as the point where the FO began their nosedive, and now we are dangerously close to auguring in.

OK, Mr. Visionary, and with this post, you are apparently a soothsayer as well:

and 1/4 of the board realizes we could have had Knight for the same $$ in free agency AND the pick.... while still trading IT.

It's about getting your facts straight, because as had already been mentioned, we wouldn't have been able to sign Knight due to Cap restrictions.

And tell me oh great, Madame CrystalBallReader, how terrible was that Dragic trade for us? Last I checked, Knight was every bit as productive per game than Dragic, yet we trade a top 5 protected pick for Knight, and are paying him $14M through age 27, yet we now have received an unprotected pick, and a top 7 protected pick, for a 28 YO, who is being paid $17M per through his age 32 season, with a stellar 12/5/46.8%/32% slash line as the MAN, just like he wanted. But I'm sure he would be a better fit here, since he would be surrounded by better talent...oh wait...no he wouldn't...

But you keep pretending that you are the visionary, Frank, and McD is an "inexperienced asset-mongering GM", because, well, he hasn't tried to go after top talent, but you, Frank, are a true 'visionary', because you can't see past this next draft, and would rather still have Dragic, IT, and Bledsoe back court. Yep, that's visionary, all right, let's keep things the way we were, since they were working out so great for us, and again, since Dragic is 'tearing it up' for the Heat as the sole PG, at $17M a clip at age 29.

I wonder, Frank, why is it always the poor trades that you happen to mention, and not the good ones, like, oh...say, Dragic for two 1st Rd picks, one of which is only protected for picks 1-7. Tell me Frank, how would keeping Dragic have been 'visionary' for us, vice two future 1st Rd picks. You always come back to say these picks are so far in the future that they don't matter but as a 'visionary', I would think that would be an excellent trade. And what if the LAL pick isn't realized until 2018 which is a possibility? How is that different than a top 7 2018 1st Rd pick PLUS another unprotected 1st Rd pick in 2021?

So please, get outta here with that 'visionary from an idiot' garbage, because you are no more a 'visionary' than any other fan here, including me. In fact, you are less so since you can't see past this next draft.

And one last thing. You want an 'inexperienced GM' fired, for what, another Brand New GM, that would be...um...inexperienced? Even if the new GM was a 'retread', he'd still be inexperienced with Sarver. But ooh, maybe we can get another GM that likes to sell our draft picks for cash, or picks the likes of Kendall Marshall, or Robin Lopez, then trade them away before they develop; that would be great! Especially, since McD's been such a horrible drafter, right!?!?

You are expecting McD to be perfect, and be able to see into the future. Well, guess what, he can't, but he's done more 'good' than 'harm', and that's all you can really hope for in a new GM. Yet you want to start all over AGAIN??? Like 3 years ago? Isn't it bad enough that we'll have to break in a new HC, but you want to break in a new GM as well?

And I'll say it again, when will you, and others, recognize that Sarver meddles entirely too much into things he shouldn't? You want to blame McD for all this, which is our season, but he was only a part of this disaster of a season. Injuries and Kieff are mostly to blame, along with Sarver who can't see past the next 5 minutes. If you think McD was behind this 'middle-of-the-night' firing of Hornacek, then, I don't know what to tell you.

Have you ever thougt that Frank has very good valid points so get your blinders off and just look.at our team NOW.. its one big giant mess!

McD can have his individual trade or draft wins but it still doesnt hide the fact that he assembled ONE OF THE WORST SUNS TEAM IN FRANCHISE HISTORY!!! If you cant still understand that, then i dont know what to say. And dont go blaming it on sarver or injuries. Every team deals with them and it was a conscious decision by our GM that he wants to BET on an oft-injured guard. So naturally we get an injured bledsoe half the time..

And you want to retain McD just because you want continuity? In what universe are you living where you retain poor performing employees? Employees which dont produce get shipped out just like Horny.

Nice try, but Bledsoe injured his HEALTHY knee, but yeah, McD should've known that, right? And yes, he's our most talented player. Take out a team's most talented player, and typically they don't do well. Did McD tell Kieff to assault someone? Where we, or were we not the 1st Runner up in the LMA sweepstakes? I'll answer that for you, yes, we were, he dropped the other teams that were in consideration, the Mavs and Lakers, I believe, so yes, we actually were close to signing him. Did Dragic, or did he not, demand a trade to one of three teams a week before the deadline last year? Before McD was able to trade IT, which, BTW, wasn't supposedly his biggest beef, it was Bledsoe? Dude was a headcase and blamed everyone but himself, and as I showed, he's done nothing but stunk it up in Miami after he got exactly what he wanted. How many good games has Knight played with Bledsoe vs poor games with Bledsoe, so yeah, he hasn't done well without him.

And yes, I think a GM needs more than 2 and a half seasons to turn a team around, and no, this isn't the worst team in Sun's history, the team McD took over was the worst. Are you saying Bledsoe, Warren, Len, Goodwin, Leuer, Mirza, Chandler, Knight, Booker, Kieff, and Tucker are worse than Marshall, Scola, Beasley, Gortat, Dragic, Kieff, Shannon Brown, Dudley, and Wes Johnson?

We have four promising young players and Bogdanovich (who tearing it up in his current league) waiting in the wings. This team has been decimated with injuries--Bledsoe, Knight, Price, and now Warren, so yeah, I will bring up injuries. Yes, teams deal with injuries, but do they often deal with an ENTIRE position...your starter, part-time starter, and Bench...the PG position, who is basically the QB of the team?

So, no, firing McD at this point isn't going to fix anything. And like I said, would you prefer a GM that sells our draft picks for cash, or a GM who is currently sitting with a balance of +3 1st Rd draft picks and a Euro-stash, and has been largely successful with his 1st Rd picks? I don't want to keep McD for continuity sake, so if you are going to accuse me of something, at last get it right. I want to keep McD because he's done more good than harm, and I would like to see his plan put into fruition, before he's fired. He's learning the job, and TBH, has done pretty darn well for a brand new GM, specially with meddling Sarver micromanaging the position. And if you can't see Sarver's 'fingerprints' on this disaster of a season, than you are flat out blind.

And no, I don't think he's perfect, but he did turn this team around pretty darn quickly. But this team is suffering from its top 3 PGs being injured, so yeah, that's a problem. But go ahead, blame McD for everything. Can't wait to see what you have to say if he is fired, and a worse GM is put in his place...

[jcsunsfan]

Ya that pick is off-limits unless an impact youngish player is coming back (tenth now, prolly stay around there +/- 2 slots or so). Kieff's value is too low and PJ is too old to be part of a future. I can see Mirza/PJ bringing back one of our non-NYK picks (either ours or the LAC in 2017), but not a lotto pick. Maybe we add one of our worse prospects like Norman Powell or something

Does that pick have no protection on it? Like you (assuming you are a Toronto fan) have the right to swap unless it ends up a top 3 pick? If they don't put any protection on picks like that I cannot believe the absurdity of doing that for a guy like Bargnani. I know Brooklyn did the same thing but at least they were going for top tier (albeit over the hill) type players. I guess it's a NY thing....people in NY getting greedy thinking they can have it all now while mortgaging their future. Wall Street does it to the rest of America and these GMs do it to themselves (or their teams).

It's not a swap for us, NYK swapped it with Denver in the Melo trade. We basically get the worse pick between NYK/DEN unprotected. And ya, its pretty crazy that we're gonna get a lotto pick for Bargnani; gotta love that NY management

Ah. I see. So its the worse of the Denver or NY picks. Hmm. I think Toronto fans need to prepare themselves to lose that pick. There is no pf in the draft that will be as good as Kieff, and least for 4-5 years, and the Raps mgmt knows that. Simple fact. Kieff is worth more to the Raps than that pick is.

[mademan]

Does that pick have no protection on it? Like you (assuming you are a Toronto fan) have the right to swap unless it ends up a top 3 pick? If they don't put any protection on picks like that I cannot believe the absurdity of doing that for a guy like Bargnani. I know Brooklyn did the same thing but at least they were going for top tier (albeit over the hill) type players. I guess it's a NY thing....people in NY getting greedy thinking they can have it all now while mortgaging their future. Wall Street does it to the rest of America and these GMs do it to themselves (or their teams).

It's not a swap for us, NYK swapped it with Denver in the Melo trade. We basically get the worse pick between NYK/DEN unprotected. And ya, its pretty crazy that we're gonna get a lotto pick for Bargnani; gotta love that NY management

So obviously your hope is that Denver and NY somehow get super lucky with ping pong balls and draft 1st and 2nd I take it?

Is it considered lucky if you know it's gonna happen?

[AtheJ415]

They probably wouldn't even do that deal if it was for Kieff instead of Mirza. MAYBE they counteroffer with their own pick.

I don't know, Mirza is an upgrade on PatPat and he could fit into their salary structure next year as a FA. Tucker can guard Lebron and shoot, which is why they spent $60 million on Carroll - they obviously value wing defense.

I really think that trade could help them make the finals this year. This draft seems pretty weak and that pick is likely to be 10-14ish. I don't know if they can draft a guy there that will help them in the next 2-3 years before their windows closes.

Ya that pick is off-limits unless an impact youngish player is coming back (tenth now, prolly stay around there +/- 2 slots or so). Kieff's value is too low and PJ is too old to be part of a future. I can see Mirza/PJ bringing back one of our non-NYK picks (either ours or the LAC in 2017), but not a lotto pick. Maybe we add one of our worse prospects like Norman Powell or something

I keep reading that Kieff has no value. I think people are taking way too much out of twitter and other things. I've also seen statements that GM's have short memories. They really don't. Everyone knows how Markieff performed the previous 2 years before we traded Marcus. It's not as if his ability has just disappeared, and a GM will value a 2 year span over a few months every day so long as that guy hasn't had a huge injury and doesn't have age concerns. A GM will fake a short memory in order to get a better deal via negotiation, and also because outside teams will view the Suns in a tough spot, but the Raptors's GM flew out here to specifically inquire on Kieff. The idea that nobody out there values Kieff is misguided. They just would prefer to get a good deal, so they're hoping Phoenix will accept a low offer.

[jcsunsfan]

I don't know, Mirza is an upgrade on PatPat and he could fit into their salary structure next year as a FA. Tucker can guard Lebron and shoot, which is why they spent $60 million on Carroll - they obviously value wing defense.

I really think that trade could help them make the finals this year. This draft seems pretty weak and that pick is likely to be 10-14ish. I don't know if they can draft a guy there that will help them in the next 2-3 years before their windows closes.

Ya that pick is off-limits unless an impact youngish player is coming back (tenth now, prolly stay around there +/- 2 slots or so). Kieff's value is too low and PJ is too old to be part of a future. I can see Mirza/PJ bringing back one of our non-NYK picks (either ours or the LAC in 2017), but not a lotto pick. Maybe we add one of our worse prospects like Norman Powell or something

I keep reading that Kieff has no value. I think people are taking way too much out of twitter and other things. I've also seen statements that GM's have short memories. They really don't. Everyone knows how Markieff performed the previous 2 years before we traded Marcus. It's not as if his ability has just disappeared, and a GM will value a 2 year span over a few months every day so long as that guy hasn't had a huge injury and doesn't have age concerns. A GM will fake a short memory in order to get a better deal via negotiation, and also because outside teams will view the Suns in a tough spot, but the Raptors's GM flew out here to specifically inquire on Kieff. The idea that nobody out there values Kieff is misguided. They just would prefer to get a good deal, so they're hoping Phoenix will accept a low offer.

Exactly this. Someone also told Kieff that this was in the works. THATS why we got the performance last night that we did. Just a statement to Toronto that it is still there. They have to face Cleveland in the playoffs. They really need Kieff AND Tucker to match up, at least some of the time, with LeBron and Love.

Stick to your guns McD. They need those two players WAY more than they need that Knicks pick. They know it and you know it.

Teams that are trying to compete now have to pay a premium. That is the way it always works. The Suns can afford to keep Kieff and Tucker and wait until summer. Who knows, maybe we keep him altogether, or maybe we could trade him to Cleveland for Varajeo. Would you like that Toronto?

[thamadkant]

I am looking at who plays for Toronto and there's nothing that makes sense. Nobody worth trading for.. Has to be for draft picks if anything.


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he's back for playoffs and even before that.