Not In The Face - The Jeremy Lin Thread 3

[KungFuJoe]

Ok...I know three posts in a row is much, but I just wanted to say this.

I think the reason why a lot of people like Lin so much is because he's approachable AND he's human. I'm about his size (6'2 200) and I'm a half white/asian baller, having played all through high school and some college. If I was faced up against Lin, I would be like "I got this guy...he's nothing".

Even watching him play...his loose handles, shaky jumper, can't jump out of the building, not really athletic...I'm still like "how is this guy in the league?" and then he drops 24/8 on the best team in the East leading his team to a win.

I mean, I don't know how anyone else feels...but you just get this feeling like "Man if he can do it, I can do it" even though, I know in reality, that Lin would absolutely make mincemeat out of me on the court.

[Elden Payton]

Lin is a baller, no doubt about it.

He has many flaws but plays with a lot of heart.

If Batum played with Lin's heart, he'd be a multiple time all-star.

[jtsmith]

Hornets VP Pete Guelli

Pete Guelli ‏@PeteGuelli

Yes. This is happening. @JLin7 and his early season look. More info to come. #BuzzCity

https://twitter.com/PeteGuelli/status/695378857658966016

looks like cho more than lin.

[Vae Victus]

Kemba i feel is pretty tapped out on his potential. His biggest limiting factor is his size, otherwise if he were 6'5"+ he'd be the perfect SG. Excellent handles, silky smooth stroke, lightning quick, risk averse in passing, cold blooded (doesnt care if shots dont fall), falls in love with the J too much. His defense may be lackluster at times but should be perfectly fine when combined with his other attributes. Unfortunately he's a midget and thus shoehorned into the PG role since thats the only position he can competently guard most nights, however he's not a willing/instinctual passer. The poor LolCat teams he played with earlier in his career has essentially ruined his mentality to be a true PG since they were so utterly woeful on offense that he was forced to become a chucker. If those LolCat teams had better talent and/or coaching he wouldnt have developed the bad habits we see in him now. Sure he's a great individual player who can get HIS most nights but he DOESNT help elevate his teammates play since passing and making the game easier for others is not his main priority. The scary thing about Kemba is this year is BY far his best year of his career and statistically he's not blowing away Lin even with mega usage and having everything run through him. Sure he's SCORING more, but that comes from high usage, getting to call his own number, and having an excellent J thats finally falling (dunno if it was falling during his <40% FG years).

Lin OTOH is almost the complete opposite. Excellent size for a PG, tall and strong enough to fight with SGs at times (but not full time), garbage handles, broken mid range J, woeful 3 pt shot (this year), quick enough on both O/D, high risk/high reward passing, up and down mentality wise (his BIGGEST handicap IMHO), penetrates at all costs to try to finish/kick. Thing is, playing with him you KNOW you'll get the ball when u cut/spot/post up, Lin WANTS you to score, succeed, and do well. Looking at what he did with the journeymen and scrubs in NY during Linsanity is the epitome of what Lin wants to do. Yea he'll get his, cuz he's quick/aggressive (and no matter unselfish a player is he still wants to score) but his primary objective is to create disruption to free others up for easy scores.

Honestly another important thing to that aspect, players who are more involved in the offense becomes more active on defense. NYK had crap talent but they played HARD cuz they were moving the rock and everyone got involved.

[phillycheese]

Lin to MKG. If you've got a big who rolls to the rim, Lin will find him. I think he loves creating and feeding his bigs more than he does scoring himself. He uses his credible scoring threat to create high percentage shots at the rim for his bigs with his courtvision and passing. He runs the team as an unselfish floor general PG with the ball in his hands and not just dribbling around looking to get himself open for his own shot (though he can score/draw fouls if he needs to keep the defense honest).

That fast break where Lin passed to MKG was a very typical Lin fast break. You have the defender looking at Lin and did not see MKG. You had Lebron stalking Lin ready to block his shot attempt at the rim. And then at the last minute the pass made, Lin's defender cannot tun around to defend MKG, and Lebron is screened out as Lin goes by giving MKG a clear dunk. The only play is for the defender to try and draw a charge on Lin after the pass.

[bws94]

I'm gonna say this right now...there is only ONE thing keeping Lin from being a definite starter in this league, and crazy as it may sound...a potential top 15 pg in the league.

His subpar handles.

I just don't know if he can get better. He doesn't seem to have gotten any better in the last few years. I sometimes think you can't really teach handles once you get past a certain age...that it's something that had to have been instilled as a youth.

But if I was Lin, I'd be working on my handles 24/7.

They've improved but not enough. He worked with a streetballer, the Professor, in the offseason who has fancy looking handles but basically carries and palms the ball a lot. He should find whoever worked with Curry, now Curry's handles are really strong and they haven't always been. He needs to get them to being more secure as I doubt he'll have the best handles of the PGs.

I think he should also find other ways to pass the ball in the half-court than the dribble/drive and different ways of finishing around the packed paint when he drives. If they don't go for that little pump fake he does on drives, then he's trapped and sometimes in the paint risking a 3-second violation.

But Lin is a nice, nice player. His open court handles are very good, it's his handles under pressure and in the half-court that need a lot of improving.

[bws94]

Lin is a baller, no doubt about it.

He has many flaws but plays with a lot of heart.

If Batum played with Lin's heart, he'd be a multiple time all-star.

I agree. He plays with heart, plays hard, plays tough. And he can be clutch too. That's why Cliff likes him in the closing lineup.

[bws94]

Hornets VP Pete Guelli

Pete Guelli ‏@PeteGuelli

Yes. This is happening. @JLin7 and his early season look. More info to come. #BuzzCity

https://twitter.com/PeteGuelli/status/695378857658966016

looks like cho more than lin.

Cho, with hair.

[KM6]

Hornets VP Pete Guelli


https://twitter.com/PeteGuelli/status/695378857658966016

looks like cho more than lin.

Cho, with hair.

If he can grow it...

[spaceballer]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/linfinity88/status/695448771824451584[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/linfinity88/status/695448771824451584

[bigbob]

Ok...I know three posts in a row is much, but I just wanted to say this.

I think the reason why a lot of people like Lin so much is because he's approachable AND he's human. I'm about his size (6'2 200) and I'm a half white/asian baller, having played all through high school and some college. If I was faced up against Lin, I would be like "I got this guy...he's nothing".

Even watching him play...his loose handles, shaky jumper, can't jump out of the building, not really athletic...I'm still like "how is this guy in the league?" and then he drops 24/8 on the best team in the East leading his team to a win.

I mean, I don't know how anyone else feels...but you just get this feeling like "Man if he can do it, I can do it" even though, I know in reality, that Lin would absolutely make mincemeat out of me on the court.

agreed about the weak handles bit. It seems to me that his handles just get ultra sloppy when he's nervous or under pressure, ie big games that are close. If hes playing without any pressure his handles seem ok though, its only in the crunch when he gets exposed. This is the reason id prefer kemba to be starting PG over lin...kemba handles the ball as if it were a part of his body, lin handles the ball as if its a grenade with the pin out.

[ChokeFasncists]

I'm gonna say this right now...there is only ONE thing keeping Lin from being a definite starter in this league, and crazy as it may sound...a potential top 15 pg in the league.

His subpar handles.

I just don't know if he can get better. He doesn't seem to have gotten any better in the last few years. I sometimes think you can't really teach handles once you get past a certain age...that it's something that had to have been instilled as a youth.

But if I was Lin, I'd be working on my handles 24/7.

They've improved but not enough. He worked with a streetballer, the Professor, in the offseason who has fancy looking handles but basically carries and palms the ball a lot. He should find whoever worked with Curry, now Curry's handles are really strong and they haven't always been. He needs to get them to being more secure as I doubt he'll have the best handles of the PGs.

I think he should also find other ways to pass the ball in the half-court than the dribble/drive and different ways of finishing around the packed paint when he drives. If they don't go for that little pump fake he does on drives, then he's trapped and sometimes in the paint risking a 3-second violation.

But Lin is a nice, nice player. His open court handles are very good, it's his handles under pressure and in the half-court that need a lot of improving.

Agreed, his handles have improved a lot, even tho it's still not up to par.

Lin should definitely try this out:

http://www.mercurynews.com/warriors/ci_29204782/trainer-helps-curry-take-game-new-heights

[ChokeFasncists]

Ok...I know three posts in a row is much, but I just wanted to say this.

I think the reason why a lot of people like Lin so much is because he's approachable AND he's human. I'm about his size (6'2 200) and I'm a half white/asian baller, having played all through high school and some college. If I was faced up against Lin, I would be like "I got this guy...he's nothing".

Even watching him play...his loose handles, shaky jumper, can't jump out of the building, not really athletic...I'm still like "how is this guy in the league?" and then he drops 24/8 on the best team in the East leading his team to a win.

I mean, I don't know how anyone else feels...but you just get this feeling like "Man if he can do it, I can do it" even though, I know in reality, that Lin would absolutely make mincemeat out of me on the court.

That's definitely a thing (a problem as well). His backups inevitably play better than before. Think of Bev, Price and BRob.

Most of his opponents don't play the same way against him. Some, like Kyrie would be mad after Lin makes several big plays and got to go hero ball; some would be like (Reggie Jackson) thinking it'd be easy and goes after Lin, after several times get discouraged and did nothing afterwards; some would go superman (Vujacic).

[ChokeFasncists]

That fast break where Lin passed to MKG was a very typical Lin fast break. You have the defender looking at Lin and did not see MKG. You had Lebron stalking Lin ready to block his shot attempt at the rim. And then at the last minute the pass made, Lin's defender cannot tun around to defend MKG, and Lebron is screened out as Lin goes by giving MKG a clear dunk. The only play is for the defender to try and draw a charge on Lin after the pass.

Unfortunately, that happens a lot. Defenders drawing charge on Lin after the pass, he's gotta be more careful. (those jerks)

[kinein]

Ok...I know three posts in a row is much, but I just wanted to say this.

I think the reason why a lot of people like Lin so much is because he's approachable AND he's human. I'm about his size (6'2 200) and I'm a half white/asian baller, having played all through high school and some college. If I was faced up against Lin, I would be like "I got this guy...he's nothing".

Even watching him play...his loose handles, shaky jumper, can't jump out of the building, not really athletic...I'm still like "how is this guy in the league?" and then he drops 24/8 on the best team in the East leading his team to a win.

I mean, I don't know how anyone else feels...but you just get this feeling like "Man if he can do it, I can do it" even though, I know in reality, that Lin would absolutely make mincemeat out of me on the court.

dont forget the 38 he dropped on the lakers and 38 he dropped on the spurs, or the record he set in philadelphia at their arena, for most 3 pointers at that arena. He's got a few nba records with his name in it.

For someone that is not really athletic :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4O1bpHvx84

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-mIZcIMVHc

I know what your saying, but thats the difference.

- if you are still asking "how is this guy in the league" your ignoring all the accomplishments and great games he has had. how many people do you know have a championship Heat team, all decide that their entire team is going to guard you when your still wet behind the ears.

I get where you are coming from but my only reply to comments like the ones you make is, you must not be paying attention or you actively have a bias of some form that doesn't accept results and actual accomplishments.

Unless you have a negative personality where you automatically discount any positives and see only negatives. There's only a few possibilities for why you think the way you do.

Note this isnt an attack on you as much as commentary on your post and your perspective.

The following is dated:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUmG1xPR4-I
*he's changed his shot and this season your seeing him build on that change as he's worked on a faster release.
- I give it another 6-9 mos before it starts solidifying. arbitrary number, generally habits take anywhere from 60-90 days to form, from then training muscle memory should take another 60-90 just loosely from my own experience, mastery could take years but he's got plenty of time still.

And this : (Rose block pre-Rose Injury when he was in his prime athletic condition)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_1tZOYgr4E

Note some of these examples are a few years old, Lin is in much better shape and condition now ~ outside of chemistry building, and injuries to his ankle and aches and pains - Lin is a much more sophisticated player. He's still growing and hasn't reached full maturity at all. A lot of people enter the NBA and thats it, they arent going to be a evolving - what you see is what you get, and other players develop and improve and add layers to their game as well as finesse and skillsets they lacked due to only having experience on a non-pro level.

[bigbob]

wow...lin plays one good game and suddenly its a bunch of lin nut hugging posts. Calm down, fact is lins handles still suck, his shots still suck and he is still a turnover machine. Im actually surprised that there is another player on the team who can go toe to toe with lin in a match of "who can turn over the ball in a more ridiculous way", aka Mr. Batum. Lin is a GOOD player, but don't get ahead of yourselves in thinking hes a super star. One thing for sure though, if he keeps playing at the level he has overall this season, he is getting HIS in the offseason. Im sure there are at LEAST 2 top teams in the east who can use a "backup pg" to make up for their crap starting PGs, ie bulls and drose, cavs and kyrie irving

[2k15]

wow...lin plays one good game and suddenly its a bunch of lin nut hugging posts. Calm down, fact is lins handles still suck, his shots still suck and he is still a turnover machine. Im actually surprised that there is another player on the team who can go toe to toe with lin in a match of "who can turn over the ball in a more ridiculous way", aka Mr. Batum. Lin is a GOOD player, but don't get ahead of yourselves in thinking hes a super star. One thing for sure though, if he keeps playing at the level he has overall this season, he is getting HIS in the offseason. Im sure there are at LEAST 2 top teams in the east who can use a "backup pg" to make up for their crap starting PGs, ie bulls and drose, cavs and kyrie irving

if lin cared about getting his, he wouldnt have signed with the hornets. the guy goes where the heart wants and thats refreshing. this is a lin thread, why are you surprised about the lin fan posts? chill out with being the debbie downer

[bws94]

wow...lin plays one good game and suddenly its a bunch of lin nut hugging posts. Calm down, fact is lins handles still suck, his shots still suck and he is still a turnover machine. Im actually surprised that there is another player on the team who can go toe to toe with lin in a match of "who can turn over the ball in a more ridiculous way", aka Mr. Batum. Lin is a GOOD player, but don't get ahead of yourselves in thinking hes a super star. One thing for sure though, if he keeps playing at the level he has overall this season, he is getting HIS in the offseason. Im sure there are at LEAST 2 top teams in the east who can use a "backup pg" to make up for their crap starting PGs, ie bulls and drose, cavs and kyrie irving

Now you are going too far the other way. At times, Lin looks like a borderline all-star out there. His passing is quite good, especially in the open court. He can hit shots, he hit a big 3 in the 4th in this game and made two big clutch shots in crunch time. And he really isn't a TO machine. While he has more than he should, he usually has them in bunches. But he has games and series of games of low TOs.

A few posters are going too far in the Lin praise but you are going too far in trying to counter that. Lin is a nice player and can be an effective starter if need be. An average backup doesn't come in so many games and perform like Lin did in place of the caliber of players he's subbing for (Kemba, Batum and if you want to go back in history Harden). Give him credit. But that doesn't mean he doesn't have some holes in his game or should replace Kemba either. Sensibly speaking, Lin's strengths could be exploited more and I think the Charlotte staff knows that and will for as long as Lin is a Hornet.

[DY_nasty]

i pretty much leave the lin fans be. they're cool ppl for the most part and kinda harmless to discussion everywhere else

its not like they blow up the fake trade thread with weird parsons scenarios or anything

kinda wish i could be a fan like most are but im bitter and jaded now

[KM6]

People are saying the Cavs played trash defense last game. Well, when your offense is predictable, like running lots of iso plays, having very little ball movement or when you know who is going to get the ball down the stretch, it's easy to defend. But when you have a true playmaker who not only passes the ball to open teammates but also create easy scoring opportunities like Lin can, your offense becomes unpredictable, and the defense falls apart.

Good analysis from ATH.

http://www.atthehive.com/2016/2/5/10919372/how-jeremy-lins-playmaking-broke-down-the-cleveland-cavaliers#comments