PG: "It's Just Us Here."

[JXL]

How many teams TRADING the superstar for assets have won the trade? Honest question because I know common consensus has always been that the team giving the star loses the deal.

Define "win". Because in the Dwight to LA trade, everyone thought LA and Philly won the trade. Turns out Vucevic was the best player in the trade, and Orlando won.

Dwight to LA - D12 later went to Houston = LA lost
Bynum to Philly - Bynum never suited up >> Bynum no longer in the NBA = Philly lost
Vucevic to ORL - Borderline star >> Signed extension a year ago >> Still a bottom .500 team that's suppose to make a playoff push = ORL undetermined

Probably there's no winner ATM, but ORL can still win the trade cause they own LA's 2019 pick and if ORL can make the playoffs either this year or next year.

[K_ick_God]

It is kind of amazing that Denver did get a large haul for Melo and this season is their last one to get anything from it but they won't, because they're going to keep their pick anyway. Gallo is aight. He's not good enough.

Wilson is nothing. Mozgov turned into a couple picks for them, so I guess you can count those.

Even if you get a lot, you don't get much unless you're lucky. Maybe one day a team should trade every pick for good or great young players already in the league. I wonder how that'd work out if you ran computer simulation models.

The 6ers are currently trying an extreme strategy and we'll see how it turns out. If a team never put themselves in a position to gamble in the draft and just sold their picks to the highest bidder, would that work? No, don't cite the Knicks because we whiffed on picks plenty of times and also just traded more than we needed to in picks (and for bad players). Don't overpay, but just take yourself out of the draft gamble, and try to identify better players ... not Eddy Curry, Jamal, etc., of course.

EDIT: You can't trade your pick every year, but every other year. And you can just do it smarter than we have, or the Lakers have recently, and certainly smarter than the Nets did.

[j4remi]

How many teams TRADING the superstar for assets have won the trade? Honest question because I know common consensus has always been that the team giving the star loses the deal.

Define "win". Because in the Dwight to LA trade, everyone thought LA and Philly won the trade. Turns out Vucevic was the best player in the trade, and Orlando won.

The team dealing the superstar ends up in a better position as a result of the trade. Denver didn't, Memphis did well dealing Pau but LA did better, even Deron to Brooklyn left Utah a mess for years.

[nykfan42]

shot clock reset to 14 after a foul noobs

There wasn't a foul NOOBS. Whoever and1ed this just as big of a fool as you are. Watch the game.

Damn I can admit when I'm wrong they screwed us


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Right, there wasn't a foul hahah. They definitely screwed us. We don't get these cheap breaks haha

[Dr. Detfink]

First off, we have to give credit to Stan Van Gundy who has achieved something that the last FIVE coaches (Michael Curry, John Kuester, Lawrence Frank, Maurice Cheeks, John Loyer) could not. That is find a way to balance out the roster and harness the talent to put together an above .500 record.

That sounds a little familiar doesn't it? The Knicks have a collection of talents but still trying to to put it altogether.

There's a hope in the franchise player Porzingis who was up against arguably the best defensive Center in the game, Andre Drummond. So no, I do NOT believe KP needs to come off the bench, needs a rest, etc. Players NEED to work out their difficulties against the opposition. There's no substitute for experience. Being sick and banged up is NO EXCUSE. That's going to happen next season...and the season after next with the stakes even higher.

You can pin all the problems on Jose Calderon but the lack of ball movement in the first quarter comes from the inability of Afflalo to make the extra pass. Aaron is a serviceable point guard but he cannot get the defense to collapse nor can he hit the open man in the corner for a three. Let's be clear, the Knicks' 3 point shooting is awful. 3 of 14 from downtown. Meaning, they are not getting good looks and deciding on poor shot selection.

Plankton Galloway gets the Jamal Crawford award. That is, BEST player in a losing cause. If you remember "Fondly" during those seasons under Isiah Thomas, the Knicks would fall behind by 20 points in the first quarter...only for Jamal Crawford to come out firing in the second half...bring them "so close" right before the opposition took advantage of the tired Knicks' squad and finished the game with a win.

That wasn't Jose Calderon who was getting TORCHED by Reggie Jackson, similar to how Lin just scored at win against the Knicks' guards. That's from the fatigue from the Knicks trying to dig themselves out of a hole.

Don't look for Robin "Encino man" Lopez to take a charge. He's got the basketball IQ of a rock. Plus he's ALWAYS late. This is why Porzingis picks up some of the dumbest fouls because he's not getting help inside.

You can also continue to use Derek Fisher as a whipping boy from 12 years a slave but the truth is, this is the level of talent assembled. It is NOT getting much better than this unless the Knicks make significant upgrades at the Point Guard, Shooting Guard, and Center position. It's going to take 2-3 more seasons but that's Phil's plan...so be it.

[Phish Tank]

So much anger...

Seriously


Sent from the phish tank

[j4remi]

i don't think at melo's age you can make this incremental progress. this process has to be quicker. otherwise it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

I'm not worried about Melo's age. As he declines, if we develop KP right, we'll still have a player to build around. I just don't want a rush move that mortgages our future flexibility all because we need to justify Melo's contract. Melo's contract is justified because it kept Dolan quiet and now I'm willing to be patient lest we fall into another rush move or quick fix attempt that could trap us for another five years.

[god shammgod]

First off, we have to give credit to Stan Van Gundy who has achieved something that the last FIVE coaches (Michael Curry, John Kuester, Lawrence Frank, Maurice Cheeks, John Loyer) could not. That is find a way to balance out the roster and harness the talent to put together an above .500 record.

That sounds a little familiar doesn't it? The Knicks have a collection of talents but still trying to to put it altogether.

There's a hope in the franchise player Porzingis who was up against arguably the best defensive Center in the game, Andre Drummond. So no, I do NOT believe KP needs to come off the bench, needs a rest, etc. Players NEED to work out their difficulties against the opposition. There's no substitute for experience. Being sick and banged up is NO EXCUSE. That's going to happen next season...and the season after next with the stakes even higher.

You can pin all the problems on Jose Calderon but the lack of ball movement in the first quarter comes from the inability of Afflalo to make the extra pass. Aaron is a serviceable point guard but he cannot get the defense to collapse nor can he hit the open man in the corner for a three. Let's be clear, the Knicks' 3 point shooting is awful. 3 of 14 from downtown. Meaning, they are not getting good looks and deciding on poor shot selection.

Plankton Galloway gets the Jamal Crawford award. That is, BEST player in a losing cause. If you remember "Fondly" during those seasons under Isiah Thomas, the Knicks would fall behind by 20 points in the first quarter...only for Jamal Crawford to come out firing in the second half...bring them "so close" right before the opposition took advantage of the tired Knicks' squad and finished the game with a win.

That wasn't Jose Calderon who was getting TORCHED by Reggie Jackson, similar to how Lin just scored at win against the Knicks' guards. That's from the fatigue from the Knicks trying to dig themselves out of a hole.

Don't look for Robin "Encino man" Lopez to take a charge. He's got the basketball IQ of a rock. Plus he's ALWAYS late. This is why Porzingis picks up some of the dumbest fouls because he's not getting help inside.

You can also continue to use Derek Fisher as a whipping boy from 12 years a slave but the truth is, this is the level of talent assembled. It is NOT getting much better than this unless the Knicks make significant upgrades at the Point Guard, Shooting Guard, and Center position. It's going to take 2-3 more seasons but that's Phil's plan...so be it.

[Sark]

So much anger...

Why are you here?

[god shammgod]

i don't think at melo's age you can make this incremental progress. this process has to be quicker. otherwise it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

I'm not worried about Melo's age. As he declines, if we develop KP right, we'll still have a player to build around. I just don't want a rush move that mortgages our future flexibility all because we need to justify Melo's contract. Melo's contract is justified because it kept Dolan quiet and now I'm willing to be patient lest we fall into another rush move or quick fix attempt that could trap us for another five years.

if the plan is to just bide our time untill we can build around kp, you might as well start collecting assets now and bottom out. because just like melo, he's gonna need running mates and you're probably not gonna get them in free agency. so you're gonna need to be in the lottery.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Even if we wanted to trade Melo, we will get more value in the offseason. Not even worth shopping him around right now because if word gets out the season will just get worse.

Best thing we can do is just shop the vets around. If we get a good offer for anyone (except KP) then take it. If nothing is there, we can just play out the year.

Just sign another guard so we dont have to watch Sasha anymore. I would rather watch someone young that sucks, then someone old that sucks. Its just painfully embarrassing to watch him out there.

[god shammgod]

So much anger...

Why are you here?

[Phish Tank]

How many teams TRADING the superstar for assets have won the trade? Honest question because I know common consensus has always been that the team giving the star loses the deal.

Define "win". Because in the Dwight to LA trade, everyone thought LA and Philly won the trade. Turns out Vucevic was the best player in the trade, and Orlando won.

The team dealing the superstar ends up in a better position as a result of the trade. Denver didn't, Memphis did well dealing Pau but LA did better, even Deron to Brooklyn left Utah a mess for years.

Hmm... Excluding sign and trades, I'm curious too, let's see all the major trades before gasol:

1). Shaq trade to Miami: I mean the lakers ended up getting gasol later on with one of those assets (Caron butler flipped for kwame brown and then flipped into gasol). But it took like 5 years or so. Miami ended up winning a chip two years later.

Conclusion: incomplete. Wouldn't say the lakers won.

2). Vince carter traded to Nets: raptors never really recovered until recently.

Conclusion: loss

3). Allen Iverson Trade: 76ers haven't really been serious playoff contenders since

Conclusion: loss

The trades after that weren't really better for the teams that traded those assets either.

However, if you consider Joe Johnson as a star, the Hawks got a ransom from the Nets.




Sent from the phish tank

[Greenie]

So much anger...

Why are you here?

To bask in glory.

[mpharris36]

i don't think at melo's age you can make this incremental progress. this process has to be quicker. otherwise it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

I'm not worried about Melo's age. As he declines, if we develop KP right, we'll still have a player to build around. I just don't want a rush move that mortgages our future flexibility all because we need to justify Melo's contract. Melo's contract is justified because it kept Dolan quiet and now I'm willing to be patient lest we fall into another rush move or quick fix attempt that could trap us for another five years.

Thats why in all honestly I wouldn't be down to trade a future 1st for teague. Teague would help but not that much to the extent not having another 1st rounder.

Our problem is in the past we tried for quick fixes to justify other moves. If you always have your pick and movable contracts you can always change directions on how the season is going.

[Sark]

So much anger...

Why are you here?

To bask in glory.

It's just us here.

[mpharris36]

Even if we wanted to trade Melo, we will get more value in the offseason. Not even worth shopping him around right now because if word gets out the season will just get worse.

Best thing we can do is just shop the vets around. If we get a good offer for anyone (except KP) then take it. If nothing is there, we can just play out the year.

Just sign another guard so we dont have to watch Sasha anymore. I would rather watch someone young that sucks, then someone old that sucks. Its just painfully embarrassing to watch him out there.

I honestly think the time would be to strike could be at the trade deadline. You might have a really desperate team in the Clippers to get that 3rd piece with CP3 and DJ. Blake hand looks real f*cked up. You make the move for Blake. Then you can keep blake until the offseason and use him to trade for other young pieces and possible draft picks since he has no say where he goes.

[Houston99]

When Melo settles for the late game 3 every time<<<<

Old age is showing.. Driving is too much work for him

I was sooo mad he took that shot

[Greenie]

So much anger...

Why are you here?

I'm in a good mood today. Snowed in with the hubby and no work>>>>>>

You can't blow my high today Shamm.

[Fat Kat]

First off, we have to give credit to Stan Van Gundy who has achieved something that the last FIVE coaches (Michael Curry, John Kuester, Lawrence Frank, Maurice Cheeks, John Loyer) could not. That is find a way to balance out the roster and harness the talent to put together an above .500 record.

That sounds a little familiar doesn't it? The Knicks have a collection of talents but still trying to to put it altogether.

There's a hope in the franchise player Porzingis who was up against arguably the best defensive Center in the game, Andre Drummond. So no, I do NOT believe KP needs to come off the bench, needs a rest, etc. Players NEED to work out their difficulties against the opposition. There's no substitute for experience. Being sick and banged up is NO EXCUSE. That's going to happen next season...and the season after next with the stakes even higher.

You can pin all the problems on Jose Calderon but the lack of ball movement in the first quarter comes from the inability of Afflalo to make the extra pass. Aaron is a serviceable point guard but he cannot get the defense to collapse nor can he hit the open man in the corner for a three. Let's be clear, the Knicks' 3 point shooting is awful. 3 of 14 from downtown. Meaning, they are not getting good looks and deciding on poor shot selection.

Plankton Galloway gets the Jamal Crawford award. That is, BEST player in a losing cause. If you remember "Fondly" during those seasons under Isiah Thomas, the Knicks would fall behind by 20 points in the first quarter...only for Jamal Crawford to come out firing in the second half...bring them "so close" right before the opposition took advantage of the tired Knicks' squad and finished the game with a win.

That wasn't Jose Calderon who was getting TORCHED by Reggie Jackson, similar to how Lin just scored at win against the Knicks' guards. That's from the fatigue from the Knicks trying to dig themselves out of a hole.

Don't look for Robin "Encino man" Lopez to take a charge. He's got the basketball IQ of a rock. Plus he's ALWAYS late. This is why Porzingis picks up some of the dumbest fouls because he's not getting help inside.

You can also continue to use Derek Fisher as a whipping boy from 12 years a slave but the truth is, this is the level of talent assembled. It is NOT getting much better than this unless the Knicks make significant upgrades at the Point Guard, Shooting Guard, and Center position. It's going to take 2-3 more seasons but that's Phil's plan...so be it.

Detfink Is one weird muffaga.