PG: "It's Just Us Here."

[Deeeez Knicks]

To be fair everyone said we would get Monroe and either trade the pick or get someone like WCS or Winslow last offseason and were completely off. We are still not great, but the offseason was a lot better then people imagined.

Phil has been good in most of his player moves. Whether the system/coach can work, and if we can get the guards to run a more modern offense is a bigger question.

[newyorker4ever]

I'm cool with you but this is a ******* loser mentality. Not showing up to start the game is a huge sign that we have no leader. Yet you're not mad. FOH

Don't you think that us shooting 27% in the 1st half also had a lot to do with why we were so bad?? It's pretty obvious that it was.

The knife just has to cut both ways. You can't discredit for the start and credit for the comeback.

That said, coach needs to have the team ready to give effort. If Fisher is a motivator, then it should just be about missed shots. But I saw Detroit open up the game with jump shot practice. Knicks came out pancake booty flat.

I won't look at the comeback effort in a vacuum though. Sometimes you wake up after you get hit in the mouth. But that first half was one of the sorriest displays of basketball in recent memory. We were sixers bad.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Ok then tell me thi and i'm not sticking up for Fisher but this is a legit question. How do you know that it's the fault of Fisher for them not coming with the effort needed and that he didn't do everything he could to pep talk them into giving everything they have and it was just the players coming out in their own funk?? All Fisher can do is talk to them and tell them they need to give everything they have when they get out on the court, he can't do anything more than that. All season long it's been said how hard these guys play even when they're out of the game and it's been pretty noticeable.

[HarthorneWingo]

Don't you think that us shooting 27% in the 1st half also had a lot to do with why we were so bad?? It's pretty obvious that it was.

The knife just has to cut both ways. You can't discredit for the start and credit for the comeback.

That said, coach needs to have the team ready to give effort. If Fisher is a motivator, then it should just be about missed shots. But I saw Detroit open up the game with jump shot practice. Knicks came out pancake booty flat.

I won't look at the comeback effort in a vacuum though. Sometimes you wake up after you get hit in the mouth. But that first half was one of the sorriest displays of basketball in recent memory. We were sixers bad.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Ok then tell me thi and i'm not sticking up for Fisher but this is a legit question. How do you know that it's the fault of Fisher for them not coming with the effort needed and that he didn't do everything he could to pep talk them into giving everything they have and it was just the players coming out in their own funk?? All Fisher can do is talk to them and tell them they need to give everything they have when they get out on the court, he can't do anything more than that. All season long it's been said how hard these guys play even when they're out of the game and it's been pretty noticeable.

Rah-rah speeches over an 82 game schedule wear thin quick. We have a lot of veterans on the team. Coming out hard, especially after the loss at home to the Celts, shouldn't even be an issue. Aren't there any leaders on the team?

[Fat Kat]

When Phil got here he kept saying he wasn't married to the triangle. That he just wanted system basketball that didn't 100% rely on pick and roll after pick and roll and to let everybody on the floor get involved. That he wanted to be like the Spurs.

Everybody should be down for that. So then IDK why we're being so damn strict with the triangle. Other teams incorporate triangle sets into their offense, but they're much more versatile. All that talk about Fish altering the system a bit and wanting to push the pace have all went out the window. This team is as slow, predictable, stagnant, and jump shot happy as ever. The ugliest offense I've seen in quite a while.

Would like to see what happens if we threw this isosceles system out the window and just gave Grant the keys to run said pick and roll after pick and roll with our starters instead of Lou Amundson.

Is Fish capable? The team isn't even running their triangle sets with precision. As a matter of fact, teams that don't fully run the triangle run triangle sets better than us. That's why people's perception of the triangle is skewed. Our guys run it terribly.

Fisher can't seem to get this guys to run and cut with a sense of urgency. If we switch systems, it should be because we switched coaches. I'm not advocating that yet, but his decisions continue to be head scratchers.

As far the a PnR offense goes, if we do what everybody else is doing, we'll still need superior talent and execution to beat better teams. Our guards don't fit that bill.

[TrueWarrior]

When Phil got here he kept saying he wasn't married to the triangle. That he just wanted system basketball that didn't 100% rely on pick and roll after pick and roll and to let everybody on the floor get involved. That he wanted to be like the Spurs.

Everybody should be down for that. So then IDK why we're being so damn strict with the triangle. Other teams incorporate triangle sets into their offense, but they're much more versatile. All that talk about Fish altering the system a bit and wanting to push the pace have all went out the window. This team is as slow, predictable, stagnant, and jump shot happy as ever. The ugliest offense I've seen in quite a while.

Would like to see what happens if we threw this isosceles system out the window and just gave Grant the keys to run said pick and roll after pick and roll with our starters instead of Lou Amundson.

Is Fish capable? The team isn't even running their triangle sets with precision. As a matter of fact, teams that don't fully run the triangle run triangle sets better than us. That's why people's perception of the triangle is skewed. Our guys run it terribly.

Fisher can't seem to get this guys to run and cut with a sense of urgency. If we switch systems, it should be because we switched coaches. I'm not advocating that yet, but his decisions continue to be head scratchers.

As far the a PnR offense goes, if we do what everybody else is doing, we'll still need superior talent and execution to beat better teams. Our guards don't fit that bill.

Yea I see the laziest cuts ever with this team. Nobody seems like they want the ball. Nobody looks like they know what the hell they're doing in general.

Last night was also about effort though. Nothing should piss a fan off more than when your team comes out with the energy of Ben Stein.

[newyorker4ever]

They're not going to ask him about a trade. They'll probably check in with him at season's end to see where he's at with the process. That's roughly how they'll word it. If he's unhappy, Melo will initiate the "T" word and you go from there.

If Phil doesn't get a significant player at this trade deadline or in the off season then i can see him going to Melo to tell him that it's gonna be a longer rebuilding project than what they/he thought it was gonna be so either Melo decides to stay and play with average players on a average team for the next 2/3 years or he can be traded to a contending team, because i'm sure the way Phil and Melo have spoken to each other up to this point is that it wouldn't take long to build this team to a contending team, so if Phil tells him he's looking at it being at least 2/3 years maybe he'll change his mind about staying. Getting big name players here should be a big part of Melo's job as well. He knows all these big name players so he should be able to talk to whichever ones are about to be free agents and ask them what the chances are of them coming to New York in private and the ones he doesn't know personally he probably knows another player that does know them personally who could help him with this. Players talk to each other privately all the time about stuff like this which nobody in the media or anyone besides them know what's being talked about so do your part of this Melo.

[mpharris36]

When Phil got here he kept saying he wasn't married to the triangle. That he just wanted system basketball that didn't 100% rely on pick and roll after pick and roll and to let everybody on the floor get involved. That he wanted to be like the Spurs.

Everybody should be down for that. So then IDK why we're being so damn strict with the triangle. Other teams incorporate triangle sets into their offense, but they're much more versatile. All that talk about Fish altering the system a bit and wanting to push the pace have all went out the window. This team is as slow, predictable, stagnant, and jump shot happy as ever. The ugliest offense I've seen in quite a while.

Would like to see what happens if we threw this isosceles system out the window and just gave Grant the keys to run said pick and roll after pick and roll with our starters instead of Lou Amundson.

Is Fish capable? The team isn't even running their triangle sets with precision. As a matter of fact, teams that don't fully run the triangle run triangle sets better than us. That's why people's perception of the triangle is skewed. Our guys run it terribly.

Fisher can't seem to get this guys to run and cut with a sense of urgency. If we switch systems, it should be because we switched coaches. I'm not advocating that yet, but his decisions continue to be head scratchers.

As far the a PnR offense goes, if we do what everybody else is doing, we'll still need superior talent and execution to beat better teams. Our guards don't fit that bill.

Yea I see the laziest cuts ever with this team. Nobody seems like they want the ball. Nobody looks like they know what the hell they're doing in general.

Last night was also about effort though. Nothing should piss a fan off more than when your team comes out with the energy of Ben Stein.

Yeah I gotta agree here. Not one of our players actually cuts with any sense of urgency. That is one of key options in the triangle. If no one cuts then its basically just an iso offense. The point of the cuts is to hit a driver to the basket. If the first cut isn't there the cutter next option should be to back screen for the player on the weak side to cut in and they don't do that either.

They just lazy trot through the paint and let Melo or AA ISO 1 on 1.

[newyorker4ever]

The knife just has to cut both ways. You can't discredit for the start and credit for the comeback.

That said, coach needs to have the team ready to give effort. If Fisher is a motivator, then it should just be about missed shots. But I saw Detroit open up the game with jump shot practice. Knicks came out pancake booty flat.

I won't look at the comeback effort in a vacuum though. Sometimes you wake up after you get hit in the mouth. But that first half was one of the sorriest displays of basketball in recent memory. We were sixers bad.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Ok then tell me thi and i'm not sticking up for Fisher but this is a legit question. How do you know that it's the fault of Fisher for them not coming with the effort needed and that he didn't do everything he could to pep talk them into giving everything they have and it was just the players coming out in their own funk?? All Fisher can do is talk to them and tell them they need to give everything they have when they get out on the court, he can't do anything more than that. All season long it's been said how hard these guys play even when they're out of the game and it's been pretty noticeable.

Rah-rah speeches over an 82 game schedule wear thin quick. We have a lot of veterans on the team. Coming out hard, especially after the loss at home to the Celts, shouldn't even be an issue. Aren't there any leaders on the team?

Well said. I just think that there's plenty of Knick fans that are such Fisher haters that they convince themselves that everything that goes wrong is Fisher's fault which i don't understand. So if these professional players don't play hard the fault automatically goes to Fisher like these guys that are getting paid millions of dollars can't motivate themselves which is absolutely ridiculous. I think the Fisher haters need to take their hater blinders off and stop blaming Fisher for everything that isn't working for the Knicks. I don't love Fisher or think he's a great coach but i do believe he's better than a lot of fans give him credit for and he's still learning.

[John Murdoch]

lol i was like wth when i saw this. you would think the natural reaction would be escape dribble to the right forner corner 3 but he does a 360 spinning towards dude lol

[F N 11]

Don't you think that us shooting 27% in the 1st half also had a lot to do with why we were so bad?? It's pretty obvious that it was.

MOAR JUMPSHOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MOARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Dont ever adjust!! Just shoot MOARRRRRRR JUMPSHOTS

I'm no spelling champ, plus don't like to make comments on stuff like this and maybe I'm missing the point but are you meaning to say MORE???

It goes back to our days with D antoni. When we shot a lot of three's the slogan was "MOAR THREES" when you're been on the board for so long you pick up on trends and slangs. I know how to spell lol.

[Sark]

Don't you think that us shooting 27% in the 1st half also had a lot to do with why we were so bad?? It's pretty obvious that it was.

The knife just has to cut both ways. You can't discredit for the start and credit for the comeback.

That said, coach needs to have the team ready to give effort. If Fisher is a motivator, then it should just be about missed shots. But I saw Detroit open up the game with jump shot practice. Knicks came out pancake booty flat.

I won't look at the comeback effort in a vacuum though. Sometimes you wake up after you get hit in the mouth. But that first half was one of the sorriest displays of basketball in recent memory. We were sixers bad.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Ok then tell me thi and i'm not sticking up for Fisher but this is a legit question. How do you know that it's the fault of Fisher for them not coming with the effort needed and that he didn't do everything he could to pep talk them into giving everything they have and it was just the players coming out in their own funk?? All Fisher can do is talk to them and tell them they need to give everything they have when they get out on the court, he can't do anything more than that. All season long it's been said how hard these guys play even when they're out of the game and it's been pretty noticeable.

The task you are talking about is exactly what Fisher's job is to do. If they come out flat, then that is his fault. If they come out fired up and ready, he gets credit. But how a team plays completely falls on the shoulders of the coach.

[Greenie]

Melo is never leaving....dab
Melo is never leaving....dab
Melo is never leaving....dab
Melo is never leaving....dab
Melo is never leaving....dab
Melo is never leaving....dab

[Fat Kat]

When Phil got here he kept saying he wasn't married to the triangle. That he just wanted system basketball that didn't 100% rely on pick and roll after pick and roll and to let everybody on the floor get involved. That he wanted to be like the Spurs.

Everybody should be down for that. So then IDK why we're being so damn strict with the triangle. Other teams incorporate triangle sets into their offense, but they're much more versatile. All that talk about Fish altering the system a bit and wanting to push the pace have all went out the window. This team is as slow, predictable, stagnant, and jump shot happy as ever. The ugliest offense I've seen in quite a while.

Would like to see what happens if we threw this isosceles system out the window and just gave Grant the keys to run said pick and roll after pick and roll with our starters instead of Lou Amundson.

Is Fish capable? The team isn't even running their triangle sets with precision. As a matter of fact, teams that don't fully run the triangle run triangle sets better than us. That's why people's perception of the triangle is skewed. Our guys run it terribly.

Fisher can't seem to get this guys to run and cut with a sense of urgency. If we switch systems, it should be because we switched coaches. I'm not advocating that yet, but his decisions continue to be head scratchers.

As far the a PnR offense goes, if we do what everybody else is doing, we'll still need superior talent and execution to beat better teams. Our guards don't fit that bill.

Yep. Terrible effort and they go through sets as if they're confused. WTF are all of these coaches doing? Googling platitudes for Fish's timeouts?

Also, if you have to bench Jose because he's such a liability, why start him in the first place? He didn't even try to stay with his man. Instaswitch. Some guys get away with that crap, some are benched immediately, others are benched indefinitely. Fisher seems to contradict himself daily.

[R-DAWG]

When Melo settles for the late game 3 every time<<<<

Old age is showing.. Driving is too much work for him

But we can't trade him, he's a mentor for Porzingis. We might be the 6th seed in 3 years with him.

What has gone on here the past 2.5 years is so unacceptable. It's so frustrating. It's so embarrassing.

It's everything James Dolan deserves.

yeah trade him for 2 late chicago firsts and a late clippers first like you suggested on the trades & transaction board. you're the greatest.

My trade also had 2 lotto picks in it but lets' leave out 40% of the trade.

Getting our pick back along with Sacramento's pick along with 3 late 1sts for Melo. I'll do that deal.

[K_ick_God]

I just want to know what happened in that Boston game, and right before it. We were playing some super-heated, crisp basketball. Looked like a totally different team. I'm not saying what's happened since -- Melo got hurt, KP is off for some reason. But I really want to know what happened to cause the team to click like that pretty suddenly. Was it just random? If not whatever it was, do it again.

The season feels lost though. You'd like to keep hopes high, but really what good reasons are there for that. The teams above us seem to have their act together and while I do give this team some credit for not quitting, which we have seen a lot and may be something you can attribute to Fisher, I also don't see signs of them getting over the hump. They seem to be able to bump along the bottom without falling apart, which is admirable, but they don't seem to be able to sustain their progress either.

[Knicks Byke]

lol i was like wth when i saw this. you would think the natural reaction would be escape dribble to the right forner corner 3 but he does a 360 spinning towards dude lol

when you accidentally hit the wrong move in 2k

[K_ick_God]

lol i was like wth when i saw this. you would think the natural reaction would be escape dribble to the right forner corner 3 but he does a 360 spinning towards dude lol

when you accidentally hit the wrong move in 2k

Please. We were down 3. It's an excellent move in rhythm. Silly criticism.

[NOOB77]

I just want to know what happened in that Boston game, and right before it. We were playing some super-heated, crisp basketball. Looked like a totally different team. I'm not saying what's happened since -- Melo got hurt, KP is off for some reason. But I really want to know what happened to cause the team to click like that pretty suddenly. Was it just random? If not whatever it was, do it again.

The season feels lost though. You'd like to keep hopes high, but really what good reasons are there for that. The teams above us seem to have their act together and while I do give this team some credit for not quitting, which we have seen a lot and may be something you can attribute to Fisher, I also don't see signs of them getting over the hump. They seem to be able to bump along the bottom without falling apart, which is admirable, but they don't seem to be able to sustain their progress either.

Melo got hurt I think is the only real thing that happened. We were in a nice flow. Melo creating easy shots for every one. Once Melo went down it ruined the flow. People got out of sorts. Shots weren't wide open anymore. Nobody could create those easy chances on the team besides Melo. Now Melo is back and we see it in spurts but he isn't 100% so he can't do it for an entire game so we see things like we did yesterday.

How to fix? We need a PG that can create for others. Melo is the only one on the team that can do it. We will be totally reliant on Melo until we can get a PG that can do those same things.

Right now we are asking Melo to be ....Our primary scorer, Our primary play makers, Our #1 rebounder, and our tone setter on defense. When you are reliant on one player to do all those things and he isn't 100% healthy then you will have problems.

[Capn'O]

I just want to know what happened in that Boston game, and right before it. We were playing some super-heated, crisp basketball. Looked like a totally different team. I'm not saying what's happened since -- Melo got hurt, KP is off for some reason. But I really want to know what happened to cause the team to click like that pretty suddenly. Was it just random? If not whatever it was, do it again.

The season feels lost though. You'd like to keep hopes high, but really what good reasons are there for that. The teams above us seem to have their act together and while I do give this team some credit for not quitting, which we have seen a lot and may be something you can attribute to Fisher, I also don't see signs of them getting over the hump. They seem to be able to bump along the bottom without falling apart, which is admirable, but they don't seem to be able to sustain their progress either.

Melo got hurt I think is the only real thing that happened. We were in a nice flow. Melo creating easy shots for every one. Once Melo went down it ruined the flow. People got out of sorts. Shots weren't wide open anymore. Nobody could create those easy chances on the team besides Melo. Now Melo is back and we see it in spurts but he isn't 100% so he can't do it for an entire game so we see things like we did yesterday.

How to fix? We need a PG that can create for others. Melo is the only one on the team that can do it. We will be totally reliant on Melo until we can get a PG that can do those same things.

Right now we are asking Melo to be ....Our primary scorer, Our primary play makers, Our #1 rebounder, and our tone setter on defense. When you are reliant on one player to do all those things and he isn't 100% healthy then you will have problems.

Basically, this is what happened to the season. Add to that, our secondary option and defensive tone setter is a rookie, is also hurt, and has slammed into the wall. It is what it is. KP will get better and better able to handle the grind. Melo - we can only hope he is 100% in years coming.

And we need **** guards.

[j4remi]

i'm one of the guys who appreciates melo more then most on here. you don't have to sell him or the importance of stars to me. but 1 is not enough. it never has been even if you have the best player in the league. the man is 31, it has to happen relatively soon. we're spending 3 years just to get to the 8th spot. the hope, i guess, is that kp develops enough and melo stays healthy enough that the two of them propel us. because as you say and i agree, it's all about stars, and i don't see another one coming.

That's essentially the play, you hope that either KP grows good enough to be a legitimate number two on a championship team while Melo can still be a number one; or that KP becomes a number 1 before Melo regresses to a number 3 or worse. In the mean time, you continue to build the supporting cast so that if either of those scenarios hits you've got an immediate contender. If we land Conley or Durant, awesome, if not; at least we leave multiple options to build from as opposed to the "we've dealt Melo, now let's hope these draft picks work out" scenario which completely eliminates major FA's from the equation without committing a ton of your cap.